Victorian Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 duff & phelps are said to be on an hourly rate of about ?600. i bet these guys both take an hour in the bog when they go to crimp off a length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawaii Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 SSN running with cuts of 75%, 50% and 25% dependant on earnings. Wonder if Lee Wallace will now be WORSE off??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 duff & phelps are said to be on an hourly rate of about ?600. i bet these guys both take an hour in the bog when they go to crimp off a length. There's nothing finer in life than laying a ?600 cable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintage1874 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Get back to your places people .It was a false dawn like others have said Neil Doncaster mentioned the spl board will decide Rangers fate should they go down the newco route. So Hearts won't have a say in the matter. Flipping terrible state of affairs.I canny stand Doncaster the man has no backbone. If Hearts did n't mean so much to me I'd jack it in. Edited March 6, 2012 by vintage1874 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 SSN running with cuts of 75%, 50% and 25% dependant on earnings. Wonder if Lee Wallace will now be WORSE off??? Sounds like the higher earners can end up with less than the mid earners tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 so 3 weeks in and Duff and Phelps have managed to shave a whole ?48k per month off the wage bill. Aye? That means they are on track to have re-paid all their Tax liabilities in 1,563 months or 130 years. I'm sure HMRC will snap their fecking hands off for that deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexton Hardcastle Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Who would of thought a team in administration could have soley killed what remains of Scottish football yet in turn survived themselves. Beyond belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenbank2 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Can anyone explain why liquidation is inevitable? Let's say - worst case - they owe ?100M. They are turning circa $50M per year. Even if income were to drop considerably, restructuring so that they operate on a budget of, say ?15M a year - and thereby making significamt profit - is entirely feasible. Their biggest costs are salaries - so they would simply have to take a big hair cut. REMEMBER - ?15M pa is 2X INCOME of any other scottish club outside the uglies!!!!!!! Balance goes to pay off their debts. Sure, it could take 10 years, but the alternative is that debtors get what....ONE FIFTH of what they're owed. The economics of this situation are so easy a child could do it. Cut the operating costs, most of which are salaries of over paid players or admin staff that are on easy street, and pay off the debt. Very little of the operating cost will be ground staff or tea ladies. Of course the unpalatable part is that they would have a massive millstone round their necks until the debt is cleared, making a lavel playing field with the other 10 clubs. Anything other than doing this equates to the public purse funding der hun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccarton3 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) further thought to depress? : the potential worsening of the sanctions for going into administration being hinted at to more than ten points will result in punishments to provincial teams in the future as a result of Rangers actions (NewCo). Rangers will never be in this position again so a change of rules will not affect them. Edited March 6, 2012 by Riccarton3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 There's nothing finer in life than laying a ?600 cable i would like that lifestyle. you could even wipe with ?20s and still come out in then i would tell everyone else "wouldn't go straight in there folks... give it ?100 quid or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintage1874 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) what did doncaster say exactly? they will remain in the spl regardless?? i missed it Aye it's up to the spl board to decide Rangers fate and if they from a newco will be voted back in. I wonder what will happen over the unregistered contracts? I think we all know the answer. Seems to me like its okay to cheat these days. Edited March 6, 2012 by vintage1874 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 It does not really matter how much Duff and Phelps charge. Rangers want to keep their best players until after the Old Firm game. I think that is what they will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 McGregeor's laywer threatening legal action over reports that he refused to take a wage cut #Rangers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Get back to your places people .It was a false dawn like others have said Neil Doncaster mentioned the spl board will decide Rangers fate should they go down the newco route. So Hearts won't have a say in the matter. Flipping terrible state of affairs.I canny stand Doncaster the man has no backbone. If Hearts did n't mean so much to me I'd jack it in. I wouldn't blame Vlad in any way if this scenario panned out from walking out on Hearts. The game is a complete bogey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 McGregeor's laywer threatening legal action over reports that he refused to take a wage cut #Rangers good edinburgh & forrester's laddie that he is. always liked him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 It does not really matter how much Duff and Phelps charge. Rangers want to keep their best players until after the Old Firm game. I think that is what they will do. And how is that in the best interest of creditors exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davesmith Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 McGregeor's laywer threatening legal action over reports that he refused to take a wage cut #Rangers And what damages has McGregor had as a result? Everyone knew he was a ^^^^ already. Someone like McGregor has probably went down from 25k a week to 7.5K a week. Lets hope he's been saving. Big Obua Dizzle is probably on more than the Rangers players now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsk1210 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 surely the spl voting system should come into play here?, and they would surely be outdone by the voting system they wanted in place. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Can anyone explain why liquidation is inevitable? Let's say - worst case - they owe ?100M. They are turning circa $50M per year. Even if income were to drop c onsiderably, restructuring so that they operate on a budget of, say ?15M a year - and thereby making significamt profit - is entirely feasible. Their biggest costs are salaries - so they would simply have ,to take a big hair cut. REMEMBER - ?15M pa is 2X INCOME of any other scottish club outside the uglies!!!!!!! Balance goes to pay off their debts. Sure, it could take 10 years, but the alternative is that debtors get what....ONE FIFTH of what they're owed. The economics of this situation are so easy a child could do it. Cut the operating costs, most of which are salaries of over paid players or admin staff that are on easy street, and pay off the debt. Very little of the operating cost will be ground staff or tea ladies. Of course the unpalatable part is that they would have a massive millstone round their necks until the debt is cleared, making a lavel playing field with the other 10 clubs. Anything other than doing this equates to the public purse funding der hun. That assumes HMRC would make an unprecedented "time to pay" agreement though. Meanwhile, penalties for alleged dodgy contracts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccarton3 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Can anyone explain why liquidation is inevitable? Let's say - worst case - they owe ?100M. They are turning circa $50M per year. Even if income were to drop considerably, restructuring so that they operate on a budget of, say ?15M a year - and thereby making significamt profit - is entirely feasible. Their biggest costs are salaries - so they would simply have to take a big hair cut. REMEMBER - ?15M pa is 2X INCOME of any other scottish club outside the uglies!!!!!!! Balance goes to pay off their debts. Sure, it could take 10 years, but the alternative is that debtors get what....ONE FIFTH of what they're owed. The economics of this situation are so easy a child could do it. Cut the operating costs, most of which are salaries of over paid players or admin staff that are on easy street, and pay off the debt. Very little of the operating cost will be ground staff or tea ladies. Of course the unpalatable part is that they would have a massive millstone round their necks until the debt is cleared, making a lavel playing field with the other 10 clubs. Anything other than doing this equates to the public purse funding der hun. Rangers don't do tax payments - certainly not ones accumulated by old regimes. Not over a period of years. Rather just sink the boat and come back debt free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 i would like that lifestyle. you could even wipe with ?20s and still come out in then i would tell everyone else "wouldn't go straight in there folks... give it ?100 quid or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMA MAROON Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 And how is that in the best interest of creditors exactly? It is only 2 weeks away so will not make much difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Can anyone explain why liquidation is inevitable? Let's say - worst case - they owe ?100M. They are turning circa $50M per year. Even if income were to drop considerably, restructuring so that they operate on a budget of, say ?15M a year - and thereby making significamt profit - is entirely feasible. Their biggest costs are salaries - so they would simply have to take a big hair cut. REMEMBER - ?15M pa is 2X INCOME of any other scottish club outside the uglies!!!!!!! Balance goes to pay off their debts. Sure, it could take 10 years, but the alternative is that debtors get what....ONE FIFTH of what they're owed. The economics of this situation are so easy a child could do it. Cut the operating costs, most of which are salaries of over paid players or admin staff that are on easy street, and pay off the debt. Very little of the operating cost will be ground staff or tea ladies. Of course the unpalatable part is that they would have a massive millstone round their necks until the debt is cleared, making a lavel playing field with the other 10 clubs. Anything other than doing this equates to the public purse funding der hun. I don't disagree in principal. I actually think a financially crippled hun is better than a liquidated one who will be back at the top in 5 years... But in your analysis you need to recognise turnover does not equal income and the fact that they have sold off all season tickets, all strip sales and even the pies for 4 years or more... That combined with a probable euro ban - how do they generate any income at all? Forget paying anything back - They will need to borrow to survive Edited March 6, 2012 by kingantti1874 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Can anyone explain why liquidation is inevitable? Let's say - worst case - they owe ?100M. They are turning circa $50M per year. Even if income were to drop considerably, restructuring so that they operate on a budget of, say ?15M a year - and thereby making significamt profit - is entirely feasible. Their biggest costs are salaries - so they would simply have to take a big hair cut. REMEMBER - ?15M pa is 2X INCOME of any other scottish club outside the uglies!!!!!!! Balance goes to pay off their debts. Sure, it could take 10 years, but the alternative is that debtors get what....ONE FIFTH of what they're owed. The economics of this situation are so easy a child could do it. Cut the operating costs, most of which are salaries of over paid players or admin staff that are on easy street, and pay off the debt. Very little of the operating cost will be ground staff or tea ladies. Of course the unpalatable part is that they would have a massive millstone round their necks until the debt is cleared, making a lavel playing field with the other 10 clubs. Anything other than doing this equates to the public purse funding der hun. Your forgetting one vital cog - income. Where will RFC see money coming into the business? Not ticket sales, if reports are to be believed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Basically that he's there to implement the SPL rulebook, which all 12 clubs are responsible for. Any new rules go to a vote. Currently no rule on liquidated clubs and only 1o point deduction for administration. Try Rule 14 Doncaster, you mutant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsk1210 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I don't disagree in principal. I actually think a financially crippled hun is better than a liquidated one who will be back at the top in 5 years... But in your analysis you need to recognise the have sold off all season tickets, all strip sales and even the pies for 4 years or more... That combined with a probable euro ban - how do they generate any income at all? Forget paying anything back - They will need to borrow to survive The season tickets were sold for rangers, not rangers newco. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 rangers Campbell Ogilvie , sfa Campbell Ogilvie , Hearts Campbell Ogilvie ? makes you wonder if its entirely out of the realms of possiblity that Vlad really did know ? Are you inferring that CO has told VR that whilst he was on the Rangers board he knew they were dishing out contracts to players that were nil and void and not recognised by the football authorities ? Really ? If VR knew the papers would have had a mystery letter years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenbank2 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 That assumes HMRC would make an unprecedented "time to pay" agreement though. Meanwhile, penalties for alleged dodgy contracts? Yes it does - the most infuriating thing about this is, unlike most businesses going into administration, RFC could so easily be made a highly profitable organisation. Hopefully that is sufficient for HMRC to think carefully about their approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 The season tickets were sold for rangers, not rangers newco. Dave We've been through this a couple of times Dave, Ticketus hold legal title to tickets sold at Ibrox, not tickets sold by Rangers FC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintage1874 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I wouldn't blame Vlad in any way if this scenario panned out from walking out on Hearts. The game is a complete bogey. The game is well and truly on it's knees. I agree it could well be the end for VR. A few weeks ago I would have thought great but given the way things have gone for Rangers under a new owner with no money not sure what the post VR era will hold for Hearts, as there does not appear to be a super rich Hearts fan willing to pump millions in the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostHunter Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Are you inferring that CO has told VR that whilst he was on the Rangers board he knew they were dishing out contracts to players that were nil and void and not recognised by the football authorities ? Really ? If VR knew the papers would have had a mystery letter years ago. They did/do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenbank2 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Your forgetting one vital cog - income. Where will RFC see money coming into the business? Not ticket sales, if reports are to be believed. Remember - their support "does not do walking away". 40K season books at ?500 - ?20M. Get them to run their club on an operating base equal to St Mirren! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintage1874 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 surely the spl voting system should come into play here?, and they would surely be outdone by the voting system they wanted in place. Dave No it will be the spl board that will vote on the Rangers situation not individual clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Funny how Donkey can talk about possible expulsion from the SPL one day re undisclosed payments yet the next claim there is nothing to prevent a newco being voted right back in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 We've been through this a couple of times Dave, Ticketus hold legal title to tickets sold at Ibrox, not tickets sold by Rangers FC. Ah but Craig Whyte gave Ticketus his personal guarantee. That's as good as cash in the bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad-Stupid Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 And how is that in the best interest of creditors exactly? Play the game Geoff, it's all about Rangers and what's best for them. Time to resume the position and get back to swallowing the big blue boaby in both ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Play the game Geoff, it's all about Rangers and what's best for them. Time to resume the position and get back to swallowing the big blue boaby in both ends. Meet the new boaby, same as the old boaby. Doncaster's desire for boaby knows no bounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radge21 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Neil Doncaster seems to be saying. Liquidate your club anytime you want and the SPL will be there to welcome you back. Scottish football is donald ducked. Neil Doncaster should resign. We are the laughing stock of European football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Yes it does - the most infuriating thing about this is, unlike most businesses going into administration, RFC could so easily be made a highly profitable organisation. Hopefully that is sufficient for HMRC to think carefully about their approach. Hector, in this scenario, would have to assume that Rangers FC (in administration) maintained their turnover at present levels. Of course, a Rangers FC (in administration) that is miles behind Septic will maintain those turnover levels based on historic precedent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Neil Doncaster seems to be saying. Liquidate your club anytime you want and the SPL will be there to welcome you back. Scottish football is donald ducked. Neil Doncaster should resign. We are the laughing stock of European football. Doncaster will be hoist by his own petard though if the illegal contracts are proven. UEFA and FIFA will be all over that like a rash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riccarton3 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Try Rule 14 Doncaster, you mutant! Is there not scope to open up the vote to all member clubs given the seriousness of the issues being uncovered daily? Yet Doncaster was so, so quick tonight to say it was a board decision. And the board's make-up could have had any six clubs or so in it, really. It just so happens the vote will go Rangers way with only Celtic against largely down to the make up of the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostHunter Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Doncaster will be hoist by his own petard though if the illegal contracts are proven. UEFA and FIFA will be all over that like a rash. Blatter and Platini like the boaby too ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Blatter and Platini like the boaby too ? Only G14 boaby. They are choosier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 They did/do. Excuse me for laughing.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: If VR knew Rangers were cheating the rest of Scottish Football and HMRC yet chose to sit back and say nothing then he is a bigger idiot than I ever imagined. But I don't believe he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GhostHunter Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Excuse me for laughing.... If VR knew Rangers were cheating the rest of Scottish Football and HMRC yet chose to sit back and say nothing then he is a bigger idiot than I ever imagined. But I don't believe he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Remember - their support "does not do walking away". 40K season books at ?500 - ?20M. Get them to run their club on an operating base equal to St Mirren! ....and of these 40k (very unlikely) season tickets, the first 25k are owned by Ticketus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboman1512 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Play the game Geoff, it's all about Rangers and what's best for them. Time to resume the position and get back to swallowing the big blue boaby in both ends. Meet the new boaby, same as the old boaby. Doncaster's desire for boaby knows no bounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Yes it does - the most infuriating thing about this is, unlike most businesses going into administration, RFC could so easily be made a highly profitable organisation. Hopefully that is sufficient for HMRC to think carefully about their approach. You think? They sold the Company shops and merchandising rights a few years ago. They mortgaged their next 4 years of ST sales for 24M that seems to have fallen down the back of the sofa or gone to pay off the overdraft...That basically leaves them with pay at the door ticket revenues and TV money. Neither of those will pay multi-million pound salaries if there is no guaranteed top 2 finish or European football...Apparently Ibrox has not been being maintained either and work is needed on the stadium - where is that to come from? Rangers are in big trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victorian Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 it's not doncaster, platini or blatter who would be feeling the girth of the boaby though. it's the supporters of all the clubs. doncaster is basically a pimp. he's inflicting the big hoose boaby on us all whether we like it or not while he goes and boabies some other bugger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenbank2 Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Not so sure they are consigned to liquidation. Even on half their current income, they could be made to have a ?10M pa profit - and still operate on 2X the budget of everyone else bar Celtic. Edited March 6, 2012 by Greenbank2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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