Armageddon Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 It should be a 25 point deduction. There is no way the SPFL can agree to this being a first insolvency event while allowing them to retain all the history So the split starts with SevCo claiming they're the same club and we're all claiming they're a new club, now they'll be claiming they're a new club and everybody else shouting that they're the same club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 It's been nice reading this thread over the last few days, but if Gasman keeps calling them 3angers then I think I'll have to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkishcap Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 The SPL and SFA must be near nervous breakdown by now unless we get an emergency top league of 16-18 rushed through in time for next season.....purely for the whole benefit of Scottish football of course. Edinburgh Capitals v Belfast Giants Sunday 7th @Murrayfield ice rink face off 5-45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagger Is Back Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 The SPL and SFA must be near nervous breakdown by now unless we get an emergency top league of 16-18 rushed through in time for next season.....purely for the whole benefit of Scottish football of course. Edinburgh Capitals v Belfast Giants Sunday 7th @Murrayfield ice rink face off 5-45. I reckon discussions have been had already to be honest. Said it all along that the powers that be, using that term very loosely, would not want to run the risk of 2 out of 3 of us, Rangers and Hibs staying down for another season. Scottish football has manipulated things in the past to suit the 'bigger picture' and they will undoubtedly do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 It should be a 25 point deduction. There is no way the SPFL can agree to this being a first insolvency event while allowing them to retain all the history I totally agree mate. But this is the Scottish footballing authorities we're talking about here. To be honest though, if they were -15 and had to get rid of most of their best players then it'd look pretty ropey for them getting out the division. anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 It should be a 25 point deduction. There is no way the SPFL can agree to this being a first insolvency event while allowing them to retain all the history New club = 15 points. Any admin worth their salt will be arguing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 If they voluntarily give up their claimed history and remove the 5 stars from their shirts I would accede to a 15 point deduction. Otherwise they can GTF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
We_are_the_Hearts Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Not sure the rule is new club but sure it mentions links to older clubs? May be wrong though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 If they voluntarily give up their claimed history and remove the 5 stars from their shirts I would accede to a 15 point deduction. Otherwise they can GTF! This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianajones Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 If they voluntarily give up their claimed history and remove the 5 stars from their shirts I would accede to a 15 point deduction. Otherwise they can GTF! Nah, they've made their bed. 25 points for the deluded bunch. Any other decision from the SFA would be unacceptable and unfair to the other teams in Scottish football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 It's gonna get messy. Popcorn sales will be through the roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Nah, they've made their bed. 25 points for the deluded bunch. Any other decision from the SFA would be unacceptable and unfair to the other teams in Scottish football. This. I don't care about their history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 This. I don't care about their history. It's not really about the history. It's about humility. The orcs showed none the first time round and are showing precious little now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 It's not really about the history. It's about humility. The orcs showed none the first time round and are showing precious little now. I just want them weakened for as long as possible. Preferably permanently, but for as long as possible would have to do, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corryjambo Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 It's not really about the history. It's about humility. The orcs showed none the first time round and are showing precious little now. This in absolute spades. They do not know the meaning of the word humility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 I don't it would take long for the Owner of ?brox to show himself because that's where the value of assets lie. "You can't have this cause it's mine here's ra deeds" The problem is that there are several conflicting claims on the ownership, and these could take a massive amount of unraveling in various court cases - making lots of lawyers very rich - while all the time the club sinks deeper into debt, and deeper into the shit. We all laughed at him at the time, but Bomber Brown may just have called it right.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 It's been nice reading this thread over the last few days, but if Gasman keeps calling them 3angers then I think I'll have to stop. Really..? I found it mildly amusing that the third version of 3angers, may be playing at an ?1broke, they no longer own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samster Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 It's been nice reading this thread over the last few days, but if Gasman keeps calling them 3angers then I think I'll have to stop. I like it. Along with ?1brox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 So how soon will admin occur ?, monday morning looks favourite to me leaving ahmed as an unsecured creditor ! thoughts ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughesie27 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Rangers have appealed the decision which will be heard on Tuesday. The money i assume until then is still not Imrans. I think any admin will be put off until they lose the appeal AND their share issue fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Rangers have appealed the decision which will be heard on Tuesday. The money i assume until then is still not Imrans. I think any admin will be put off until they lose the appeal AND their share issue fails. The money isn't Imran's anyway. His claim won't be decided until the November court case. The cash is being ringfenced (i.e. Rangers can't spend it) until the outcome of Ahmed's case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 It's been nice reading this thread over the last few days, but if Gasman keeps calling them 3angers then I think I'll have to stop. Third Govan would be my preferred name if there was another liquidation and newnewco scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadows Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 I'm sure someone will do the sums.(Gasman?) In Bank ?1.2m Frozen ?600k Balance ?600k However running costs, monthly wage , tax / Vat all due (how much?) Next income ? Likely 'breaking point' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Rangers have appealed the decision which will be heard on Tuesday. The money i assume until then is still not Imrans. I think any admin will be put off until they lose the appeal AND their share issue fails. I'm not sure it would even be Imran's if the appeal fails. I think it would just be held back in case he wins his case later on. Could be wrong though. It's a total mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 The problem is that there are several conflicting claims on the ownership, and these could take a massive amount of unraveling in various court cases - making lots of lawyers very rich - while all the time the club sinks deeper into debt, and deeper into the shit. We all laughed at him at the time, but Bomber Brown may just have called it right.... He may well have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 The SPL and SFA must be near nervous breakdown by now unless we get an emergency top league of 16-18 rushed through in time for next season.....purely for the whole benefit of Scottish football of course. Edinburgh Capitals v Belfast Giants Sunday 7th @Murrayfield ice rink face off 5-45. I know it's the age if internet rumours but I read somewhere around the split time last season, Rod Petrie had already been charged by the SFA to start tentative negotiations with SPFL clubs about sounding out league expansion. Maybe there was more to LD coming to ER than first thought. RP could then have on his CV that he saved scottish football when he applies for Campbell Oglvie's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 League restructuring when it becomes apparent that we will win the title and sevco may miss out is inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 The SPL and SFA must be near nervous breakdown by now unless we get an emergency top league of 16-18 rushed through in time for next season.....purely for the whole benefit of Scottish football of course. Edinburgh Capitals v Belfast Giants Sunday 7th @Murrayfield ice rink face off 5-45. Reckon they'd just about scrape through in 6th with a 25 point deduction, if it were a 16-team top league they might struggle to get fourth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 I like it. Along with ?1brox. What do we do if Yes wins the referendum and the English keep the pound to themselves? What' s the plan B????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 New club = 15 points. Any admin worth their salt will be arguing that. I'm in the same boat Geoff. A 15 point v. 25 point deduction is naturally better for the new business going forward. The administrators already know that as long as there is a football team wearing blue jerseys with the words Rangers in it, it will be followed. And those following it will believe in continuity, irrespective of what Scots law or football rules say about it*. And whether others like it or not, Rangers are a fabric of Scottish society. If I was an administrator trying get best for both the creditors and the business going forward, I'd be pushing for significant clarity on the rules. Indeed I'd also argue that certainly the 25 point penalty couldn't be deducted until all legal avenues and rights of appeal have been exhausted. Potentially 15 would be acceptable, but you could also argue that no penalty should be handed out until all these avenues have been exhausted. And worryingly it would certainly draw us in to an off field debate we would rather not, that could impact on field performances too. Indeed, from a Rangers perspective, I'd be doing it for nusance factor to impact the opposition. *Back in 2012 Douglas Fraser, BBC business editor was adamant company and club cannot be seperated. LNS said they could but he wasn't working off an open book, but a Terms of Reference supplied to him by the SPL. Admittedly, LNS will know more about Scots Law than Douglas Fraser or any of us ever will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 I'm sure someone will do the sums.(Gasman?)In Bank ?1.2m Frozen ?600k Balance ?600k However running costs, monthly wage , tax / Vat all due (how much?) Next income ? Likely 'breaking point' ? I'm sure I read that their running costs were close on two million a month, with income considerably less - resulting in a loss each month of about ?700,000. Which ever way you slice it though, and even if they win Tuesday's appeal - they do not seem to currently have enough money to see out the month of September. If they lose Tuesday's appeal, that "breaking point" as you call it, could potentially be as early as next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Why would it be the third version of rangers? Sevco going into admin doesn't mean they will die. Thought we of all people would know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 League restructuring when it becomes apparent that we will win the title and sevco may miss out is inevitable. I can say with no knowledge but virtual certainty that it is being discussed just now. And in fairness to the football authorities thay have to look in to all contingencies. If it is proposed and gets the go ahead, it would have to be the nail in the coffin for Doncaster. He has told us so many times that the absolute number of teams the top league in Scotland can sustain is 12. And you could argue that if it is being looked in to, it is so much against his wishes, he should already be considering his position. Then again does even a decent lawyer earn more than ?230kish per year? Mind you, if we went to 16 clubs, I think Hibs would find a way to miss out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 I'm sure someone will do the sums.(Gasman?) In Bank ?1.2m Frozen ?600k Balance ?600k However running costs, monthly wage , tax / Vat all due (how much?) Next income ? Likely 'breaking point' ? They have ?1.5m in the bank. There was a short recess yesterday when Summers called Philip Nash to get the exact up to date balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Reckon they'd just about scrape through in 6th with a 25 point deduction, if it were a 16-team top league they might struggle to get fourth! They have no bank debt, the only benefit of admin 2 would be as a mechanism to reduce monthly costs to a sustainable level.. They won't scrape top 6 as they have to empty most of the first team... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 They have no bank debt, the only benefit of admin 2 would be as a mechanism to reduce monthly costs to a sustainable level.. They won't scrape top 6 as they have to empty most of the first team... So all the orcs can look forward to after admin is more of the same but with a crap team and presumably a new manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 So all the orcs can look forward to after admin is more of the same but with a crap team and presumably a new manager? With any luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getintaethem Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Will we see Easdale and Letham try to have their money ring fenced now or are they too deep in the mire to go down that road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNox Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Will we see Easdale and Letham try to have their money ring fenced now or are they too deep in the mire to go down that road? There's not enough left in the kitty to ring fence their loans in total. Anyway, aren't the loans secured over the car park? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 If liquidation occurs again, the new basement of Scottish football is of course the Highland and Lowland leagues, with promotion and relegation effective as of this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavsy Van Gaverson Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 (edited) If liquidation occurs again, the new basement of Scottish football is of course the Highland and Lowland leagues, with promotion and relegation effective as of this season. Good point. Even longer to get back if they were liquidated again. Edited September 6, 2014 by Gavsy Van Gaverson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester™ Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 If liquidation occurs again, the new basement of Scottish football is of course the Highland and Lowland leagues, with promotion and relegation effective as of this season. Only if they win the league then 2 2 legged ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 (edited) It's not really about the history. It's about humility. The orcs showed none the first time round and are showing precious little now. I've certainly read one Rangers supporter on TSFM who has been appalled about everything that has happened at Rangers, including the EBTs. Irrespective of points of law, he's sees it as what it was, tax avoidance. If we go back to late spring / early summer of 2012, there were plenty Rangers fans, including one A.M. McCoist who said that in the event of liquidation, it would probably be right to place Rangers in the 3rd division. However, at that time, the Rangers fans were being told by all and sundry that they weren't going to be liquidated and the CVA would go through despite a CVA never going to be approved. But once the CVA was declined all bets and any contrition off. A typical bully. Edited September 6, 2014 by DETTY29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moz Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Nothing to add apart from the fact that I found this funny... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alva-Jambo Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Will we see Easdale and Letham try to have their money ring fenced now or are they too deep in the mire to go down that road? - probably not.. because for all we know, they already hold title to Ibrox ( though probably as agents for Hedge Fund) so they could always get a couple of million out if selling that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooperstar Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Really..? I found it mildly amusing that the third version of 3angers, may be playing at an ?1broke, they no longer own. I generally hate these names, Hobos, Castle Greyskull etc and have said so before, but the fact you are using this particular one to refer to Rangers MKII makes this one even more annoying. At least save it til they are in their 3rd incarnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 I just can't see admin or worse happening. They'll wriggle out of it somehow. I have no idea of the financial ins and outs just a horrible gut feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmaroon Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 So all the orcs can look forward to after admin is more of the same but with a crap team and presumably a new manager? Not all bad news for them then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaywalker Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Why would it be the third version of rangers? Sevco going into admin doesn't mean they will die. Thought we of all people would know that. Can't believe you got away with that... Will post again to see if we can get a nibble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungry hippo Posted September 6, 2014 Share Posted September 6, 2014 Can't believe you got away with that... Will post again to see if we can get a nibble. Thought it was decent point and in no way fishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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