HMRC Freeze Rangers Bank Accounts? Martin Bain Story (merged)

[wibble]

Very interesting post on AFC Chat ...............

 

 

 

They are already massively in breach of SPL rules, but nothing is being said or done about that. These are rules relating to payments and contacts to players. These two are particular killers for them..

 

"D9.3 No Player may receive any payment of any description from or on behalf of a Club in respect of that Player?s participation in Association Football or in an activity connected with Association Football, other than in reimbursement of expenses actually incurred or to be actually incurred in playing or training for that Club, unless such payment is made in accordance with a Contract of Service between that Club and the Player concerned"

 

If they claim they aren't guilty of this then they are admitting that the EBT payments were contractual which ruins their case with HMRC. If they claim they were guilty of this then every player paid under an EBT would have been ineligible to play in the SPL.

 

By the same token, If HMRC rule that the payments were under contract then they will be due a bunch of tax, but not break this rule. If HMRC rule that the payments weren't contractual then they will not be due a bunch of tax, but every player who played under an EBT would have been ineligible for the SPL.

 

This one is more worrying...

 

"D1.13 A Club must, as a condition of Registration and for a Player to be eligible to Play in Official Matches, deliver the executed originals of all Contracts of Service and amendments and/or extensions to Contracts of Service and all other agreements providing for payment, other than for reimbursement of expenses actually incurred, between that Club and Player, to the Secretary, within fourteen days of such Contract of Service or other agreement being entered into, amended and/or, as the case may be, extended"

 

Its highly rumoured that Rangers supplied side letters to the players contracts stating the terms of the EBT, and stipulating that the "loans" would never have to be paid back (this must be close to the truth, is any players going to accept a nod and a wink from a football chairman over money?). If they did, then the question has to be whether they provided these side letters to the SPL? If not, then again, all players under EBT payment schemes are ineligible to play in the SPL.

 

More concering is if they did provide the side letters with the contracts, this would mean the SPL not only knew about the schemes, but did nothing to stop them. Scary.

 

And lets not even start on the question of how the **** they got their UEFA license from the SFA this year. I've often wondered why Gordon Smith seemed to end up with such a cushy number.

 

Even if the tax case goes in favour of Rangers (which it won't) they are still guilty of massive corruption, and breaking almost every fair play rule in the SPL rulebook.

 

Either way Scottish football must punish Rangers to retain any credibility at all.

[Beverley]

thats a really interesting post wibble.

 

aside from any tax case, the "side letters" thing i haven't heard of, but has to be investigated

 

surely?

[southside1874]

Very interesting post on AFC Chat ...............

 

 

 

 

 

Rangers players not getting paid!!!! I did say that Vlad was highlighting this and it was one of the reasons he was acting in this way when not paying some of the Hearts players. Once again Vlad highlights that its not a level playing field. I don't think the guy wants to highlight the plight of other clubs but he is forced to. Rangers under Murray brought some of the most fantastic players to Scottish football and should be admired for this instead of some no brain who has done nothing for our football league other than build a stand.

[Floyd]

thats a really interesting post wibble.

 

aside from any tax case, the "side letters" thing i haven't heard of, but has to be investigated

 

surely?

 

Very interesting indeed!!! The side letters sound extremely dodgy and I very much doubt they will have been lodged with the SFA.

 

The side letters will no doubt have been headed up as contract amendments......

 

I reckon I could be Rangers HR Manager very easily based on the many rules & regulations that they have failed to follow in terms of Bain's suspension and subsequent sacking.

 

But why would I want to leave a fairly secure post to work for a company about to go bust??

[Footballfirst]

The "side letters" will most likely be the reason that Rangers lose their appeal. Even Darrell King from the Herald was on Radio Clyde tonight saying that he knew that players had two contracts. The first covered their basic rate tax liability. The second was paid into the EBT. Along with the second contract was a side letter that stated that any money paid via the EBT would be tax free.

 

What the SFA & SPL knew about this is open to conjecture, but there has to be a stong suspicion that they were aware of what was going on but chose to do nothing.

 

However, I expect that the SFA/SPL will still come to some arrangement to allow a newco RFC to continue in the SPL. They will argue that all this occurred years ago and the the regime within the SFA / SPL has changed in the meantime and that they will change the rules to ensure that no club can exploit such a situation in the future. Now what team might be the next to suffer some insolvency event?

[southside1874]

The "side letters" will most likely be the reason that Rangers lose their appeal. Even Darrell King from the Herald was on Radio Clyde tonight saying that he knew that players had two contracts. The first covered their basic rate tax liability. The second was paid into the EBT. Along with the second contract was a side letter that stated that any money paid via the EBT would be tax free.

 

What the SFA & SPL knew about this is open to conjecture, but there has to be a stong suspicion that they were aware of what was going on but chose to do nothing.

 

However, I expect that the SFA/SPL will still come to some arrangement to allow a newco RFC to continue in the SPL. They will argue that all this occurred years ago and the the regime within the SFA / SPL has changed in the meantime and that they will change the rules to ensure that no club can exploit such a situation in the future. Now what team might be the next to suffer some insolvency event?

 

Probably Hibs with their new stand and lack of support from their chairman.

[Floyd]

The "side letters" will most likely be the reason that Rangers lose their appeal. Even Darrell King from the Herald was on Radio Clyde tonight saying that he knew that players had two contracts. The first covered their basic rate tax liability. The second was paid into the EBT. Along with the second contract was a side letter that stated that any money paid via the EBT would be tax free.

 

What the SFA & SPL knew about this is open to conjecture, but there has to be a stong suspicion that they were aware of what was going on but chose to do nothing.

 

However, I expect that the SFA/SPL will still come to some arrangement to allow a newco RFC to continue in the SPL. They will argue that all this occurred years ago and the the regime within the SFA / SPL has changed in the meantime and that they will change the rules to ensure that no club can exploit such a situation in the future. Now what team might be the next to suffer some insolvency event?

 

Only heard a little of the Clyde phone in tonight as was playing football but the sheer amount of Rangers fans with their heads firmly in the sand in terms of this case is staggering!!!

 

A lot of them seem to think it has been created by journalists with the sole aim of making Rangers seem weaker than Celtic. Daryl King was taking dogs abuse for daring to say that all is not well financially at Ibrox.

 

They really don't believe what is going on around them, yet we are the ones who are portrayed as being idiots for not sharpening the pitch forks and lighting the torches every time Vlad says or does something that is slightly controversial!!!

 

If it wasn't so amusing it would be tragic!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

The "side letters" will most likely be the reason that Rangers lose their appeal. Even Darrell King from the Herald was on Radio Clyde tonight saying that he knew that players had two contracts. The first covered their basic rate tax liability. The second was paid into the EBT. Along with the second contract was a side letter that stated that any money paid via the EBT would be tax free.

 

What the SFA & SPL knew about this is open to conjecture, but there has to be a stong suspicion that they were aware of what was going on but chose to do nothing.

 

However, I expect that the SFA/SPL will still come to some arrangement to allow a newco RFC to continue in the SPL. They will argue that all this occurred years ago and the the regime within the SFA / SPL has changed in the meantime and that they will change the rules to ensure that no club can exploit such a situation in the future. Now what team might be the next to suffer some insolvency event?

If Newco Rangers are allowed back into the SPL, they might as well close the league down. The game will be the ultimate bogey.

[wibble]

If Newco Rangers are allowed back into the SPL, they might as well close the league down. The game will be the ultimate bogey.

 

It's not only our board that's saying the same. Every celtic fan and same on Aberdeen board.

[Paolo]

It's not only our board that's saying the same. Every celtic fan and same on Aberdeen board.

And rightly so.

 

The problem is, with Celtic, at board level at least, they are best pals with Rangers, in fact Siamese Twins. When it matters they stick together which is why we have the 11-1 voting system. They will rarely, if ever, vote opposite ways in crunch votes.

[I.T.K]

If Newco Rangers are allowed back into the SPL, they might as well close the league down. The game will be the ultimate bogey.

 

Will post my scarf to the SFA if this happens with a simple letter stating I won't be needing it anymore.

[Paolo]

Will post my scarf to the SFA if this happens with a simple letter stating I won't be needing it anymore.

What an interesting way to make a statement. Especially if fans done it en masse.

[I.T.K]

What an interesting way to make a statement. Especially if fans done it en masse.

 

Kind of what I would like to see if Rangers get a let off, Scarf's hanging on the gates of Hampden with candles, flowers, and messages saying 'RIP Scottish football'.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

What an interesting way to make a statement. Especially if fans done it en masse.

Agreed. However, if one thing could ever unite non gruesome twosome fans, it would be Rangers getting off scot free and I would hope that outcry would stop any shenanigans.

[Floyd]

Kind of what I would like to see if Rangers get a let off, Scarf's hanging on the gates of Hampden with candles, flowers, and messages saying 'RIP Scottish football'.

 

That sounds like a plan!!!!

[wibble]

And rightly so.

 

The problem is, with Celtic, at board level at least, they are best pals with Rangers, in fact Siamese Twins. When it matters they stick together which is why we have the 11-1 voting system. They will rarely, if ever, vote opposite ways in crunch votes.

 

 

 

If you have a look on Kerrydale street ..... there will be riots at Parkhead if they save Rangers hide. They want their 10 in a row and the board better not stop them.

 

It would be 3 or 4 years before their fans realised there was no life after Rangers.

 

I think the scarf protest would be a great one to start right now. Send buses through to Hampden from every corner of Scotland full of fans to tie a scarf to the fences to let them know that fans wont stand for leniency.

[IMA MAROON]

If Newco Rangers are allowed back into the SPL, they might as well close the league down. The game will be the ultimate bogey.

 

 

And when it is our turn?

[I.T.K]

And when it is our turn?

 

One rule for all is the only fair way!

 

 

As much as I would love the rules to crush Ranger's I am aware that potentially we might get hit with the same rules. But are problems are not the same as Rangers. (But we do have a problem, but that is topic for another thread.)

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

And when it is our turn?

If we end up going bust it will be through mismanagement, not cheating like Rangers did. I've said for a while that if Rangers lose the case then it should be ruled they were playing inelligible players and now, reading the AFC post, it's clear that regardless of the result they did, in fact, play inelligible players. They should therefor, regardless of how it all ends up, be punished for this, and over and above any 'statutory' points loss, be deducted points for every game that one of these 'inelligible' players played in. Even if the SFA don't act on this aspect they might find UEFA do, as Rangers recieved payments for wins etc in the Champions League while playing these players, and by doing so, deprived their opponents of the money. In the event that it all bypasses UEFA, the Glasgow Mafia and their pet media monkeys might all regret the way they've treated a certain owner of a certain football club, who just might, as a parting shot, put them wise!

[IMA MAROON]

Vlad will not be here forever to bail us out and some folk are wishing too hard for something that could see us go out the box.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

And when it is our turn?

If it happened to us, we should take the punishment too. No hypocrisy here.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Vlad will not be here forever to bail us out and some folk are wishing too hard for something that could see us go out the box.

What does it have to do with us? You have obviously concluded parallels with the Huns and HMFC again. Mind you, that isn't a surprise...

[Charlie-Brown]

IF Hearts have any underpayment issues with HMFC then it would be in our best long term interest to try to resolve these with HMRC even if that meant we had to suffer a bit financially whilst any tax owed was repaid. The other alternative is trying to stiff the tax-payer by going into adminsitration or liquidating 137 year old HMFC and forming a newco - both of which carry footballing & financial penalties as well as reputational damage.

[Samster]

The problem is, with Celtic, at board level at least, they are best pals with Rangers, in fact Siamese Twins. When it matters they stick together which is why we have the 11-1 voting system. They will rarely, if ever, vote opposite ways in crunch votes.

 

I'm sure the Rangers tax case blog has been posted on here before but this topic of Celtic helping out Rangers has been discussed in the most recent entry (9 Nov).

 

My link Tax case blog

[Lovecraft]

Let's be clear here. If Rangers lose the tax case and have been shown to have broken the rules of "fair play" I think there is a case to get them kicked out the SPL/SFL on the grounds that they effectively bought the titles during their period of domination. What they were doing is essentially cheating, not just every single person that paid hard earned money to go and see any match in the SPL during this period, but every single tax paying person in this country.

 

 

There should be more talk of people going to jail or being charged with fraud, than people been pissed if Rangers remain in the SPL.

 

Also, what about any clubs that came up against Rangers during this point that may have beaten them and progressed further in a cup and the money they will have lost for making it to a final etc?

[Homme]

What was the time period these EBT's were in use?

 

Could we claim another Scottish Cup win and Coca Cola cup win?

[Lovecraft]

What was the time period these EBT's were in use?

 

Could we claim another Scottish Cup win and Coca Cola cup win?

 

 

See the period when Rangers had players that were far too good to be playing for them?

 

That period

[djf]

Rangers linked with two Indian players. India are currently ranked 160th in the world. Wonder how much hassle they will have getting work permits....

[Floyd]

Maybe they have British passports??

[jambovambo]

Rangers linked with two Indian players. India are currently ranked 160th in the world. Wonder how much hassle they will have getting work permits....

200 million in the middle class in India. And counting.

 

That's a lot of replica shirts.

[wibble]

Imagine the abuse Indian players would get at places like Paisley and Ibrox. .... Oh, wait.

[Floyd]

Imagine the abuse Indian players would get at places like Paisley and Ibrox. .... Oh, wait.

 

They would be fine as long as they are they "Indian Proddys & no the kafflic wans"

 

[Victorian]

chat about possible rule infringements, ineligible players, associated governing bodies' collusion and thereby corruption. all this would normally please me no end.

 

but...

 

as far as i'm concerned there is no limit whatsoever to the lengths scottish football would go to in order to brush things under the carpet. facts and information would be surpressed, rules would be 'interpreted', rules would be broken, rules would be changed... retrospectively if necessary.

 

tales of this kind simply remind me of the capacity that exists for scottish football to do **** all about it and carry on.

 

if such things are indeed true then i will only begin to have faith that proper retribution will result if someone or some organisation can get a hold of the whole affair and refuse to let go until such time that higher football authorities are forced to take action.

 

if left to it's own devices... scottish football will not prosecute the affair to uphold fair play. it simply will not happen.

[Lovecraft]

chat about possible rule infringements, ineligible players, associated governing bodies' collusion and thereby corruption. all this would normally please me no end.

 

but...

 

as far as i'm concerned there is no limit whatsoever to the lengths scottish football would go to in order to brush things under the carpet. facts and information would be surpressed, rules would be 'interpreted', rules would be broken, rules would be changed... retrospectively if necessary.

 

tales of this kind simply remind me of the capacity that exists for scottish football to do **** all about it and carry on.

 

if such things are indeed true then i will only begin to have faith that proper retribution will result if someone or some organisation can get a hold of the whole affair and refuse to let go until such time that higher football authorities are forced to take action.

 

if left to it's own devices... scottish football will not prosecute the affair to uphold fair play. it simply will not happen.

 

Key point. I doubt they will.

[DETTY29]

Key point. I doubt they will.

Plus scaremongering as well.

 

You all know that if Rangers die, they will take the rest of you down with them, sort of chat.

 

Rangers should face the punishment they deserve under the rules of either the land, or of the SFA, SPL.

 

They would come back - No doubt about it in one form or another. There are far too many knuckle draggers around for them too die forever.

[AllyjamboDerbyshire]

chat about possible rule infringements, ineligible players, associated governing bodies' collusion and thereby corruption. all this would normally please me no end.

 

but...

 

as far as i'm concerned there is no limit whatsoever to the lengths scottish football would go to in order to brush things under the carpet. facts and information would be surpressed, rules would be 'interpreted', rules would be broken, rules would be changed... retrospectively if necessary.

 

tales of this kind simply remind me of the capacity that exists for scottish football to do **** all about it and carry on.

 

if such things are indeed true then i will only begin to have faith that proper retribution will result if someone or some organisation can get a hold of the whole affair and refuse to let go until such time that higher football authorities are forced to take action.

 

if left to it's own devices... scottish football will not prosecute the affair to uphold fair play. it simply will not happen.

Which is why it might be necessary for someone, like Romanov, to update UEFA on any such leniency. I know UEFA have a poor track record on 'fairness' but, at the same time, love to pick on the liitle countries to flex their muscles on and provide a lesson for everyone else.

[Deevers]

They would be fine as long as they are they "Indian Proddys & no the kafflic wans"

 

Maybe they are the sort that Craig Whyte likes - Souix for instance.

[flecktimus]

A wee bit longer to wait

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-15736024

[I.T.K]

A wee bit longer to wait

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...w-west-15736024

 

This currently my second favourite thread on JKB, just behind any hotties thread. Both are warming the crotch!

 

My only issue is that this thread could be a like the iPhone 5 launch this year. The press, media, bloggers, and fans all built up that the iPhone 5 would come out. Then everyone was pissed off that Apple only brought out iPhone 4Gs.

 

I hope Rangers get crushed in to iPhone5 liquidation and not given an iPhone4gs slap on the wrist.

[Floyd]

A wee bit longer to wait

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-15736024

 

Cue a January fire sale or are HMRC ensuring that their will be no liquidation before or during the transfer window.......

[Mysterion]

Cue a January fire sale or are HMRC ensuring that their will be no liquidation before or during the transfer window.......

 

Pretty much - smart move on the part of the taxman if that is the case...

[jamboinglasgow]

Cue a January fire sale or are HMRC ensuring that their will be no liquidation before or during the transfer window.......

 

January could see a massive exodus of players from the SPL, if Rangers are forced to clear players out, we clear out our high earners, Hibs are apparently trying to drum up interest in their players down south, Motherwell will likely have some of their players targeted with doing so well (I can see clubs trying to buy Jamie Murphy.) Hopefully the players that go will be replaced with young Scottish players.

[Footballfirst]

Is there any truth in the rumour that HMRC will do a deal re the tax bill to take ownership of the stadium including naming rights?

 

Apparently Ibrox would be renamed the "Inland Revenue Arena"

 

 

ok .... I'll get my coat

[Footballfirst]

Looks like we will have to wait a bit longer for the FTT decision. It is to resume for 3 days in January.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-15736024

 

It won't help CW with the cashflow situation barring a firesale during the transfer window.

[Victorian]

hopefully all their small creditors will start turning the screw regarding their accounts. credit being withdrawn... invoices being chased... COD for everything.

[hawaii]

A nice wee video - bizarrely sent to me by a Rangers fan!!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnM0ju2Oij4&feature=share

[Francis Albert]

Good news. A long drawn out case where Rangers are found ultimately guilty is the best possible outcome, and if they eventually get off at least, as Whyte has admitted, the months of uncertainty will in themselves be very damaging.

[Paolo]

Good news. A long drawn out case where Rangers are found ultimately guilty is the best possible outcome, and if they eventually get off at least, as Whyte has admitted, the months of uncertainty will in themselves be very damaging.

True, but it would be amusing if It was resolved just before Christmas and that Rangers and everyone associated with them had a thoroughly miserable festive period.

[Hagar the Horrible]

I know we have our troubles to seek, but why is this wonderful thread being allowed to dwindle.

 

Anyway, I heard something interesting last night, that any Newco Rangers might not be allowed to use the name Rangers as there is one in the league that already exists...Berwick. If you have already registered the name and are currently playing in a recognised league then it would be ok, IE Brora Rangers or Kelty Hearts for example, but a new league club newly formed wont be able to use the name Rangers as there was one and there still is one. Berwick were allowed as they played in the Scottish Borders league since thheir disputed formation 1881/1884ish and were granted full league status in 1955.

 

This was set when you concider Celtic were not alowed to steal the name Hibernian (just their players, their strips, their oirish philosphy) and Dundee Utd were not allowed to use the name Dundee Hibernian, from a debate last night with well to do Celtc fans last night they beleive this to be true, just thought I would share it as its a slow news week, with nothing to note happening.

[Bigsmak]

I know we have our troubles to seek, but why is this wonderful thread being allowed to dwindle.

 

Anyway, I heard something interesting last night, that any Newco Rangers might not be allowed to use the name Rangers as there is one in the league that already exists...Berwick. If you have already registered the name and are currently playing in a recognised league then it would be ok, IE Brora Rangers or Kelty Hearts for example, but a new league club newly formed wont be able to use the name Rangers as there was one and there still is one. Berwick were allowed as they played in the Scottish Borders league since thheir disputed formation 1881/1884ish and were granted full league status in 1955.

 

This was set when you concider Celtic were not alowed to steal the name Hibernian (just their players, their strips, their oirish philosphy) and Dundee Utd were not allowed to use the name Dundee Hibernian, from a debate last night with well to do Celtc fans last night they beleive this to be true, just thought I would share it as its a slow news week, with nothing to note happening.

 

 

Really? So only one team can be called City, or Town or United in a league?.... Sounds made up.