Scotland v Czech republic thread

[Shanks]

That "system" that CL made us play last night was an absolute disgrace to Scotland and football! At times it looked like mackie was playing at right back and naismith was in at left back!

 

We were playing a team that just got beat 1-0 from lithuania and we shat it.

[The Merse]

One word for last night:

 

HUMILIATING.

 

No defence for what was on offer last night, Craig Levein has to get himself to absolute ****.

[Tynecastle Valhalla]

the only positive for me was that kenny miller didn't start. he really is a dud at international level these days.

 

we should have set up to attack and try to win the game - very dissapointing

[johnjl]

the only positive for me was that kenny miller didn't start. he really is a dud at international level these days.

 

we should have set up to attack and try to win the game - very dissapointing

Didn't he either score or assist in the last match?

[Tynecastle Valhalla]

Didn't he either score or assist in the last match?

 

 

yes, he scored.

 

but he is murder for scotland

[johnjl]

yes, he scored.

 

but he is murder for scotland

 

It takes a brave or stupid manager to drop a striker who scored in the last game and replace him with nobody.

[Guest Dr. Pepper]

Tactics like that are what you would expect to see from the San Marinos of the footballing world Humiliation

 

 

 

 

[Cade]

World and European Champions next!

[rudi]

I've lost quite a bit of respect for CL,he should have at least had the balls to say he made a ****** up,not good enough on so many levels,can't believe we went ultra defencive against a very average team.

[IMA MAROON]

World and European Champions next!

 

And a flat back ten.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

Didn't he either score or assist in the last match?

 

Yes, for the first time in about 11 games. He gives headless chickens a bad name.

[maroonedinbriz]

I often asked what idiot let the likes of Andorra, Liechtenstein and San Marino into European and World competions, hell, all they do is put all 10 outfield players behind the ball with no intention of trying to win the game. Now I can add one more team to this diddy list. Levein rott in hell!!!

[shaun.lawson]

Perplexing, perplexing thread. Funny how when England play like drains, it's "Shaun, you're shite - deal with it!"; but when Scotland struggle, it's always the manager's fault, isn't it?

 

Craig Levein inherited a disorganised, almost at war with itself rabble. The first thing he had to do was make it hard to beat; and this, he is doing. The tactics he used last night were the same Walter Smith has used in European competition for years; and the same Levein used in Bordeaux. Why do managers do that? Because they're in charge of vastly inferior technical players, in a sport in which technical ability and keeping the ball is now massively more important than 20 or 30 years ago.

 

So what do people do? Instead of slagging the joke of a system which continues to produce not so much footballers as hammer throwers, they blame the coach and demand his head. Except Levein's predecessor tried to get Scotland playing football: it was a disaster. And Berti Vogts ripped everything up and started again, and became a complete laughing stock.

 

Could all the experts on here explain why Scotland have qualified for nothing since 1998, please? I guess it was all the fault of manager after manager? There can't possibly be any deeper, more structural explanation, can there? But because there is, every single Scotland manager has to make do and mend: make the best of a bad job. And the absurd thing about this thread is Scotland still have every chance of finishing 2nd and reaching the play-offs: it's a three horse race for 2nd spot, and too close to call. It's just up to Scotland to win at home to the Czechs and Lithuania, win away in Liechtenstein, and see where that leaves you.

 

Oh, one other thing. This isn't a prediction - but 0-0 on Tuesday night wouldn't shock me. I think Spain are right at the start of the long fall downwards, and expect Scotland to be much more up for it than their illustrious opponents. But regardless: this is about where Scotland are at the end of the campaign; not where you are after three games!

[RoussetsShorts]

Perplexing, perplexing thread. Funny how when England play like drains, it's "Shaun, you're shite - deal with it!"; but when Scotland struggle, it's always the manager's fault, isn't it?

 

Craig Levein inherited a disorganised, almost at war with itself rabble. The first thing he had to do was make it hard to beat; and this, he is doing. The tactics he used last night were the same Walter Smith has used in European competition for years; and the same Levein used in Bordeaux. Why do managers do that? Because they're in charge of vastly inferior technical players, in a sport in which technical ability and keeping the ball is now massively more important than 20 or 30 years ago.

 

So what do people do? Instead of slagging the joke of a system which continues to produce not so much footballers as hammer throwers, they blame the coach and demand his head. Except Levein's predecessor tried to get Scotland playing football: it was a disaster. And Berti Vogts ripped everything up and started again, and became a complete laughing stock.

 

Could all the experts on here explain why Scotland have qualified for nothing since 1998, please? I guess it was all the fault of manager after manager? There can't possibly be any deeper, more structural explanation, can there? But because there is, every single Scotland manager has to make do and mend: make the best of a bad job. And the absurd thing about this thread is Scotland still have every chance of finishing 2nd and reaching the play-offs: it's a three horse race for 2nd spot, and too close to call. It's just up to Scotland to win at home to the Czechs and Lithuania, win away in Liechtenstein, and see where that leaves you.

 

Oh, one other thing. This isn't a prediction - but 0-0 on Tuesday night wouldn't shock me. I think Spain are right at the start of the long fall downwards, and expect Scotland to be much more up for it than their illustrious opponents. But regardless: this is about where Scotland are at the end of the campaign; not where you are after three games!

 

Dorrans, Mcgregor, Naismith, Hutton and Weir are not hammer throwers and have fine technical ability.

[shaun.lawson]

Dorrans, Mcgregor, Naismith, Hutton and Weir are not hammer throwers and have fine technical ability.

 

In England, we think this about various players too. Then we put them up against an entire team of fine technical opponents, used to keeping the ball, slow build-up play and kicking with both feet - and oh look, pretty much all of them turn into donkeys.

 

At Rangers, does Walter Smith have no players of any technical ability? Their performances in the SPL give the lie to that - yet he plays ultra-defensive away to Man Utd reserves, and at home to Bursaspor. Why do you think that would be?

[Hilary Briss]

Perplexing, perplexing thread. Funny how when England play like drains, it's "Shaun, you're shite - deal with it!"; but when Scotland struggle, it's always the manager's fault, isn't it?

 

Craig Levein inherited a disorganised, almost at war with itself rabble. The first thing he had to do was make it hard to beat; and this, he is doing. The tactics he used last night were the same Walter Smith has used in European competition for years; and the same Levein used in Bordeaux. Why do managers do that? Because they're in charge of vastly inferior technical players, in a sport in which technical ability and keeping the ball is now massively more important than 20 or 30 years ago.

 

So what do people do? Instead of slagging the joke of a system which continues to produce not so much footballers as hammer throwers, they blame the coach and demand his head. Except Levein's predecessor tried to get Scotland playing football: it was a disaster. And Berti Vogts ripped everything up and started again, and became a complete laughing stock.

 

Could all the experts on here explain why Scotland have qualified for nothing since 1998, please? I guess it was all the fault of manager after manager? There can't possibly be any deeper, more structural explanation, can there? But because there is, every single Scotland manager has to make do and mend: make the best of a bad job. And the absurd thing about this thread is Scotland still have every chance of finishing 2nd and reaching the play-offs: it's a three horse race for 2nd spot, and too close to call. It's just up to Scotland to win at home to the Czechs and Lithuania, win away in Liechtenstein, and see where that leaves you.

 

Oh, one other thing. This isn't a prediction - but 0-0 on Tuesday night wouldn't shock me. I think Spain are right at the start of the long fall downwards, and expect Scotland to be much more up for it than their illustrious opponents. But regardless: this is about where Scotland are at the end of the campaign; not where you are after three games!

 

The point is, the Czechs are an average side.......they are our bigest rivals for 2nd who were coming off a bad result. We should have had a go.......if we win, we are home & hosed for 2nd.

 

Funny you mention Bordeaux.......last night reminded me of the 2nd leg at Tynie, same tactics & end result.

 

CL is a limited manager and should not be in the Scotland job.

[The Merse]

Perplexing, perplexing thread. Funny how when England play like drains, it's "Shaun, you're shite - deal with it!"; but when Scotland struggle, it's always the manager's fault, isn't it?

 

Craig Levein inherited a disorganised, almost at war with itself rabble. The first thing he had to do was make it hard to beat; and this, he is doing. The tactics he used last night were the same Walter Smith has used in European competition for years; and the same Levein used in Bordeaux. Why do managers do that? Because they're in charge of vastly inferior technical players, in a sport in which technical ability and keeping the ball is now massively more important than 20 or 30 years ago.

 

So what do people do? Instead of slagging the joke of a system which continues to produce not so much footballers as hammer throwers, they blame the coach and demand his head. Except Levein's predecessor tried to get Scotland playing football: it was a disaster. And Berti Vogts ripped everything up and started again, and became a complete laughing stock.

 

Could all the experts on here explain why Scotland have qualified for nothing since 1998, please? I guess it was all the fault of manager after manager? There can't possibly be any deeper, more structural explanation, can there? But because there is, every single Scotland manager has to make do and mend: make the best of a bad job. And the absurd thing about this thread is Scotland still have every chance of finishing 2nd and reaching the play-offs: it's a three horse race for 2nd spot, and too close to call. It's just up to Scotland to win at home to the Czechs and Lithuania, win away in Liechtenstein, and see where that leaves you.

 

Oh, one other thing. This isn't a prediction - but 0-0 on Tuesday night wouldn't shock me. I think Spain are right at the start of the long fall downwards, and expect Scotland to be much more up for it than their illustrious opponents. But regardless: this is about where Scotland are at the end of the campaign; not where you are after three games!

 

I'm sorry Shaun but you are so far off the mark it's unreal on this one.

 

Last night was utterly humiliating.

 

The Czech Rep are average at best. The way we set up it would be the equivalent of Hearts going up to Tannadice and not playing a striker. The two teams are at a very similar level yet we just sat there and asked to get beat.

 

Have you ever seen a team play 4-1-5-0 ever? No, because it simply ludicrous.

 

There is no out ball. You cannot keep possession. It's impossible. I'd have been embarrassed if we played like that against Spain, let alone a poor Czech side.

 

If we went there and won we'd be 3/4 of the way to finishing 2nd in the group. But no, we went for a point or bust and got absolutely what we deserved.

[shaun.lawson]

The point is, the Czechs are an average side.......they are our bigest rivals for 2nd who were coming off a bad result. We should have had a go.......if we win, we are home & hosed for 2nd.

 

Funny you mention Bordeaux.......last night reminded me of the 2nd leg at Tynie, same tactics & end result.

 

CL is a limited manager and should not be in the Scotland job.

 

Walter Smith, a vastly more experienced manager than Levein, uses the same tactics. Levein used that approach in both legs v Bordeaux because the technical gulf between the two sides was absurd. Meanwhile, the Czechs may be an average side - but technically, they're miles ahead of Scotland.

 

All British sides effectively start at a disadvantage - a handicap, if you like - against most continental opposition. Historically, British teams were able to make this up through physical play; but the laws no longer allow this, and favour technical teams more and more. Meaning managers have no choice other than to be extremely cautious. Barring the occasional fluke, we can't take these teams on at pure football and win.

[shaun.lawson]

I'm sorry Shaun but you are so far off the mark it's unreal on this one.

 

Last night was utterly humiliating.

 

The Czech Rep are average at best. The way we set up it would be the equivalent of Hearts going up to Tannadice and not playing a striker. The two teams are at a very similar level yet we just sat there and asked to get beat.

 

Have you ever seen a team play 4-1-5-0 ever? No, because it simply ludicrous.

 

There is no out ball. You cannot keep possession. It's impossible. I'd have been embarrassed if we played like that against Spain, let alone a poor Czech side.

 

If we went there and won we'd be 3/4 of the way to finishing 2nd in the group. But no, we went for a point or bust and got absolutely what we deserved.

 

Who says Scotland are at the same level as the Czechs? Lithuania were no more positive in their away game v the Czechs than Scotland were: they could've lost 5-1, but nicked a 1-0 totally against the run of play instead. Just like Scotland nicked a 1-0 miles against the run of play in Paris three years ago: a campaign about which much mythology has developed, and owed a huge amount to France's unbelievable sterility under Domenech.

 

If Scotland end the qualifying group in 2nd place and above the Czechs, you'll have done superbly. And it might well still happen. Throughout his career, Levein has been defensive away from home, but developed a fortress at home - which is why it's woefully unfair to assess this campaign until you've played the home games.

[The Merse]

Who says Scotland are at the same level as the Czechs? Lithuania were no more positive in their away game v the Czechs than Scotland were: they could've lost 5-1, but nicked a 1-0 totally against the run of play instead. Just like Scotland nicked a 1-0 miles against the run of play in Paris three years ago: a campaign about which much mythology has developed, and owed a huge amount to France's unbelievable sterility under Domenech.

 

If Scotland end the qualifying group in 2nd place and above the Czechs, you'll have done superbly. And it might well still happen. Throughout his career, Levein has been defensive away from home, but developed a fortress at home - which is why it's woefully unfair to assess this campaign until you've played the home games.

 

Anyone with a reasonable knowledge of the game would tell you that the Czechs are only marginally better than us.

 

There is negative and then there is just plain ******* stupidity.

 

You cannot play football with no front man. It cannot ever work.

[IMA MAROON]

Carlos Alberto Parreira made a prediction that left the room stunned. Discussing how tactics might evolve, the coach who had led Brazil to victory in the 1994 World Cup, suggested that the formation of the future might be 4-6-0.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/jun/08/euro2008

 

former Scotland coach Andy Roxburgh, who is now Uefa's technical director, explained. 'The six players in midfield all could rotate, attack and defend,' he said. 'But you'd need to have six Decos in midfield - he doesn't just attack, he runs, tackles and covers all over the pitch.'

[shaun.lawson]

Anyone with a reasonable knowledge of the game would tell you that the Czechs are only marginally better than us.

 

There is negative and then there is just plain ******* stupidity.

 

You cannot play football with no front man. It cannot ever work.

 

In recent times, the inconsistent Czechs beat Poland 2-0, Belgium 3-1, and won 4-2 away to the US just before the World Cup. Could Scotland win 4-2 in the US? England couldn't, so I highly doubt you could. Meanwhile, Scotland were lurching to humiliations in Norway, and much more unforgivably, in Wales. I guess Walter Smith was "stupid" in being so negative at Old Trafford too? But he got a 0-0.

 

IMA MAROON, incidentally, is correct. 4-6-0 has been coming for years now.

[The Merse]

In recent times, the inconsistent Czechs beat Poland 2-0, Belgium 3-1, and won 4-2 away to the US just before the World Cup. Could Scotland win 4-2 in the US? England couldn't, so I highly doubt you could. Meanwhile, Scotland were lurching to humiliations in Norway, and much more unforgivably, in Wales. I guess Walter Smith was "stupid" in being so negative at Old Trafford too? But he got a 0-0.

 

IMA MAROON, incidentally, is correct. 4-6-0 has been coming for years now.

 

Nonsense.

 

First of all there Man Utd and Rangers are absolutely miles apart in quality.

 

So the Czechs won 4-2, wow in a friendly match and we all know they mean diddly squat. The Czech team is slightly better than us, not enough to justify the way we set up.

 

Draw or bust.

 

Ridiculous and I will never, ever change my opinion on that.

[Mouse]

Walter Smith, a vastly more experienced manager than Levein, uses the same tactics. Levein used that approach in both legs v Bordeaux because the technical gulf between the two sides was absurd. Meanwhile, the Czechs may be an average side - but technically, they're miles ahead of Scotland.

 

All British sides effectively start at a disadvantage - a handicap, if you like - against most continental opposition. Historically, British teams were able to make this up through physical play; but the laws no longer allow this, and favour technical teams more and more. Meaning managers have no choice other than to be extremely cautious. Barring the occasional fluke, we can't take these teams on at pure football and win.

 

not exactly true, Smith plays with Kenny Miller up front as a lone striker, Levein didn't have anyone.

 

Levein's tactics and comments embarrassed us last night, and if i was one of those players i'd be severely pissed off with him.

[shaun.lawson]

Nonsense.

 

First of all there Man Utd and Rangers are absolutely miles apart in quality.

 

So the Czechs won 4-2, wow in a friendly match and we all know they mean diddly squat. The Czech team is slightly better than us, not enough to justify the way we set up.

 

Draw or bust.

 

Ridiculous and I will never, ever change my opinion on that.

 

Man Utd reserves and Rangers aren't absolutely miles apart in quality, though. And Lithuania set up "draw or bust" in the Czech Republic too: they just nicked a 1-0 anyway.

 

I expect Scotland to take 9 points from the remaining 15. 10 is just about possible too, though unlikely. Do that, and the Czechs will need something from Spain, as well as having to win in Vilnius. 2nd place is still very achievable.

[The Merse]

Man Utd reserves and Rangers aren't absolutely miles apart in quality, though. And Lithuania set up "draw or bust" in the Czech Republic too: they just nicked a 1-0 anyway.

 

I expect Scotland to take 9 points from the remaining 15. 10 is just about possible too, though unlikely. Do that, and the Czechs will need something from Spain, as well as having to win in Vilnius. 2nd place is still very achievable.

 

 

Rangers still had an out ball. They played one up top.

 

Last night pretty much killed the little bit of interest I had left in the national team. And this is coming from someone who has always hurt when Scotland lose and love it when we win.

 

I honestly think what we did last night was humiliating.

[shaun.lawson]

Rangers still had an out ball. They played one up top.

 

Last night pretty much killed the little bit of interest I had left in the national team. And this is coming from someone who has always hurt when Scotland lose and love it when we win.

 

I honestly think what we did last night was humiliating.

 

I think Scotland's coaching system and the way Scottish clubs play football every week is what leads to humiliation. That's the difference in our arguments, basically. I'm afraid I don't look at Scotland and see on paper why they should play any differently or achieve anything more than, say, Switzerland. QED.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

In recent times, the inconsistent Czechs beat Poland 2-0, Belgium 3-1, and won 4-2 away to the US just before the World Cup. Could Scotland win 4-2 in the US? England couldn't, so I highly doubt you could. Meanwhile, Scotland were lurching to humiliations in Norway, and much more unforgivably, in Wales. I guess Walter Smith was "stupid" in being so negative at Old Trafford too? But he got a 0-0.

 

IMA MAROON, incidentally, is correct. 4-6-0 has been coming for years now.

 

 

Nonsense.

 

Roma played it for a while and then got roasted by United in the Champions League.

[jamboinglasgow]

Perplexing, perplexing thread. Funny how when England play like drains, it's "Shaun, you're shite - deal with it!"; but when Scotland struggle, it's always the manager's fault, isn't it?

 

Craig Levein inherited a disorganised, almost at war with itself rabble. The first thing he had to do was make it hard to beat; and this, he is doing. The tactics he used last night were the same Walter Smith has used in European competition for years; and the same Levein used in Bordeaux. Why do managers do that? Because they're in charge of vastly inferior technical players, in a sport in which technical ability and keeping the ball is now massively more important than 20 or 30 years ago.

 

So what do people do? Instead of slagging the joke of a system which continues to produce not so much footballers as hammer throwers, they blame the coach and demand his head. Except Levein's predecessor tried to get Scotland playing football: it was a disaster. And Berti Vogts ripped everything up and started again, and became a complete laughing stock.

 

Could all the experts on here explain why Scotland have qualified for nothing since 1998, please? I guess it was all the fault of manager after manager? There can't possibly be any deeper, more structural explanation, can there? But because there is, every single Scotland manager has to make do and mend: make the best of a bad job. And the absurd thing about this thread is Scotland still have every chance of finishing 2nd and reaching the play-offs: it's a three horse race for 2nd spot, and too close to call. It's just up to Scotland to win at home to the Czechs and Lithuania, win away in Liechtenstein, and see where that leaves you.

 

Oh, one other thing. This isn't a prediction - but 0-0 on Tuesday night wouldn't shock me. I think Spain are right at the start of the long fall downwards, and expect Scotland to be much more up for it than their illustrious opponents. But regardless: this is about where Scotland are at the end of the campaign; not where you are after three games!

 

good post Shaun.

 

We have a culture where we expect miracles from managers. If the manager cant produce miracles then it is all his fault.

 

I have said already that our defensive formations are based on our lack of technical ability. Look at the Dutch, they punch above their weight for a country of their size due to the technical ability. Same with Portugal, Croatia, Czech Republic, Uruguay etc who have created teams that have done well in the last 20 years based on technical ability. Football has moved on, you need the basic skills to go further rather then just hard tackling and close team.

 

Some people on here have mentioned players like Dorrans, Hutton and Naismith but they are more an exception then the rule. IMO these are the kind of players we should have more of in all levels not just a few.

 

Something else that amazes me is how Scotland is so bad at bringing through the younger players into the team. The youngest player was Graham Dorrans who was 23. Now the Czech Republic had a 19 year old on the bench. Now I know he was seen as a fantastic prospect but I think it also says something, do we have no players like that coming through and if not why not. Then you get the issue with Christophe Berra and David Weir. Berra is 25, plays reguarly in a premiership team, but he is deemed not to be good enough and is kept out by a 40 year old player and a championship player? Why because he had a poor time against Sweden with the rest of the defence and is seen as inexperienced, so they went with experience. But why is he inexperienced? Because he doesn't get games for Scotland. Its a short-term view that is favoured instead of a long term view.

 

As they say, madness is doing something repeatedly and expecting a different result, Scottish football is simply not working. From top to bottom things are not working, and until you question everything, and I mean everything, we will stumble along with results like this.

[The Merse]

I think Scotland's coaching system and the way Scottish clubs play football every week is what leads to humiliation. That's the difference in our arguments, basically. I'm afraid I don't look at Scotland and see on paper why they should play any differently or achieve anything more than, say, Switzerland. QED.

 

We don't have a good side granted but we have better than what we did last night.

 

I'm not saying go out all guns blazing.

 

Give yourself half a chance to win the match, 4-5-1 is fine.

 

Setting up for draw or bust is just wrong. You need an out ball. If you don't have anything to aim at how can you possibly ever relieve the pressure you are puting on yourself?

[shaun.lawson]

We don't have a good side granted but we have better than what we did last night.

 

I'm not saying go out all guns blazing.

 

Give yourself half a chance to win the match, 4-5-1 is fine.

 

Setting up for draw or bust is just wrong. You need an out ball. If you don't have anything to aim at how can you possibly ever relieve the pressure you are puting on yourself?

 

Or conversely - if the opposition are completely overrun in midfield, how can they possibly break through if not at a set piece? Meaning they become more and more frustrated, and might make mistakes.

[DETTY29]

I agree with the posters bemoaning that we didn't have any form of an outball but I still think that any poster that thinks that we are even close to the Czechs in terms of ability 'to give it a go' away from home are so way, way off the mark.

 

Last night only Dorrans in the Scotland squad showed any signs of having the ability to bring the ball down in tight areas, make a little bit of space and pass it. Only problem being the second another player got it, he didn't.

 

The Czechs aren't as good as they were, were far from perfect and also made some basic errors but the vast majority of the time it was only the final killer ball that didn't come off. The build up to it in general however was fine.

 

No-one is prepared to come out and say it but in terms of modern day football where it's bring the ball in, hold it, pass it, move, make triangles, we are completely awful.

 

I'm going to Easter Road on Monday. I think the outcome of the tie is 51-41 in favour of the Icelanders, but it will be interesting to see which is the more talented modern day footballing side with real hopes, in relative terms for the future, irrespective of who gets through.

[shaun.lawson]

 

We have a culture where we expect miracles from managers. If the manager cant produce miracles then it is all his fault.

 

 

And you know what gets me? It's like people expect the players to miraculously become technically gifted based on working for a few days each year with the international coach!

 

All international managers can do is organise their team effectively, and hopefully create a team spirit which makes a big difference. If people on here really are so opposed to defensive football, it means Jack Charlton - who dragged the Republic of Ireland to respectability, and laid foundations which have been followed by others since - could never have become Scotland boss. Instead, he'd have clearly been chased from his job within half a dozen games.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

And you know what gets me? It's like people expect the players to miraculously become technically gifted based on working for a few days each year with the international coach!

 

All international managers can do is organise their team effectively, and hopefully create a team spirit which makes a big difference. If people on here really are so opposed to defensive football, it means Jack Charlton - who dragged the Republic of Ireland to respectability, and laid foundations which have been followed by others since - could never have become Scotland boss. Instead, he'd have clearly been chased from his job within half a dozen games.

 

 

Jack Charlton never wavered from a 4-4-2 though and played the same tactics. Giles and Dunphy lambasted him at every opportunity but no one cared as he actually brought success. That's the difference. As I said, if CL had got a result, he could stick two fingers up at the critics. As he didn't, he left himself open to the criticism.

[shaun.lawson]

Jack Charlton never wavered from a 4-4-2 though and played the same tactics. Giles and Dunphy lambasted him at every opportunity but no one cared as he actually brought success. That's the difference. As I said, if CL had got a result, he could stick two fingers up at the critics. As he didn't, he left himself open to the criticism.

 

Actually, he did. As football's laws began to change in the early 90s, Big Jack saw the writing on the wall and moved to 4-5-1. Which initially delivered remarkable wins in Germany and Holland, and against Italy at USA 94; but probably wasn't sustainable over the longer term. The changing laws have made it harder and harder for 'British' football to work.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Actually, he did. As football's laws began to change in the early 90s, Big Jack saw the writing on the wall and moved to 4-5-1. Which initially delivered remarkable wins in Germany and Holland, and against Italy at USA 94; but probably wasn't sustainable over the longer term. The changing laws have made it harder and harder for 'British' football to work.

 

 

And yet at club level, the top British teams are almost as successful now as they were in the late 70s/early 80s zenith. Hell, even Middlesbrough have reached a UEFA Cup Final in recent times. I know it isn't the same but it isn't like those teams are 'Brit free' (Arsenal excepted, perhaps).

[shaun.lawson]

And yet at club level, the top British teams are almost as successful now as they were in the late 70s/early 80s zenith. Hell, even Middlesbrough have reached a UEFA Cup Final in recent times. I know it isn't the same but it isn't like those teams are 'Brit free' (Arsenal excepted, perhaps).

 

True - but in most cases, that's just because of money. Meanwhile, before Bosman changed everything, even the biggest English clubs were routinely humiliated in European competition. The only way of avoiding this was to do what Arsenal did under George Graham, Nottingham Forest did under Frank Clark, or Rangers have done under Walter Smith: contrive organised boredom, and hope the opponents doze off.

[jamboinglasgow]

And you know what gets me? It's like people expect the players to miraculously become technically gifted based on working for a few days each year with the international coach!

 

All international managers can do is organise their team effectively, and hopefully create a team spirit which makes a big difference. If people on here really are so opposed to defensive football, it means Jack Charlton - who dragged the Republic of Ireland to respectability, and laid foundations which have been followed by others since - could never have become Scotland boss. Instead, he'd have clearly been chased from his job within half a dozen games.

 

it does beg the question of whether international teams need a manager or a coach.

[The Merse]

Or conversely - if the opposition are completely overrun in midfield, how can they possibly break through if not at a set piece? Meaning they become more and more frustrated, and might make mistakes.

How can you overrun a team in midfield if the midfielders never have anyone to play the ball forward to? And to detty, I wasn't saying give it a go, 4-5-1 would have been acceptable.

[shaun.lawson]

it does beg the question of whether international teams need a manager or a coach.

 

Other than rare examples like Marcelo Bielsa (and at least he's working with players who pass the ball and kick with both feet), the answer must be 'manager'. That manager needs to be tactically excellent, able to adjust mid-match... but above all, to develop an esprit de corps among the players. Down the years, many, many smaller countries have shown what's possible when such a spirit is established.

[shaun.lawson]

How can you overrun a team in midfield if the midfielders never have anyone to play the ball forward to? And to detty, I wasn't saying give it a go, 4-5-1 would have been acceptable.

 

'Overrun' was a useless choice of word by me. What I meant was: if the opposition find every one of their men tightly marked, maybe even a couple of their men double marked, what can they do?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Other than rare examples like Marcelo Bielsa (and at least he's working with players who pass the ball and kick with both feet), the answer must be 'manager'. That manager needs to be tactically excellent, able to adjust mid-match... but above all, to develop an esprit de corps among the players. Down the years, many, many smaller countries have shown what's possible when such a spirit is established.

 

 

That I do agree with.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsUwb5iQiM4&feature=related

[dobmisterdobster]

The only thing that pisses me off is that we miss a week of domestic football for this sh*te.

[Buffalo Bill]

I wonder if Puss MacPherson still mistakes Roman Bednar as Lithuanian?

[Hilary Briss]

Walter Smith, a vastly more experienced manager than Levein, uses the same tactics. Levein used that approach in both legs v Bordeaux because the technical gulf between the two sides was absurd. Meanwhile, the Czechs may be an average side - but technically, they're miles ahead of Scotland.

 

All British sides effectively start at a disadvantage - a handicap, if you like - against most continental opposition. Historically, British teams were able to make this up through physical play; but the laws no longer allow this, and favour technical teams more and more. Meaning managers have no choice other than to be extremely cautious. Barring the occasional fluke, we can't take these teams on at pure football and win.

 

It is possible to have a go, without playing pure football.........look at Northern Ireland against Italy the other night. They had many decent chances against a side that were technically better in every department.

 

Its not rocket science..............if you dont have a prescence up front you cant retain ball and 9 out of 10 times you will be beaten.

 

As for an "absurd technical gap" between Bordeuax & Hearts........yep, there was a gulf in class, the same as there has been in loads of Euro ties at Tynie over the years. It hasnt stopped us having a go in the past and getting some famous results. Levein got that all wrong.

 

Also, back to the Czech game..............I wouldnt say they were miles ahead of us. They were beaten at home by an extremely poor Lithuanian side FFS. The funny things is, I read yesterday that Levein will be adopting a more attacking tactic against Spain...........it seems to me has has got his games mixed up.

[geddy]

The only good thing about this game and the way that it was played is that hopefully less folk will go to the game on Tuesday leaving the M8 clearer for those of us going to Glasgow to see Sabaton!

Always a pain in the ass going to a gig in Glasgow if there is footbasll on.

[mikescotland]

Smith has used similar tactics while in charge of Scotland and the huns, but when he does, the players seem to be much better drilled at what they're supposed to be doing in the system he's asking them to play. After the man yoo game, the match analysis showed just how disciplined the hun players were. Man yoo were faced with two banks of players who stuck to their task doggedly all night. Miller was on his own up top and you also had their full-backs, naismith and even papac prepared to go on over-lapping runs to try and attack. We just didn't see any of that against the czechs. Obviously CL had less time with his players, but if that's the case, why not go with a more familiar 4-5-1, particularly as there were quite a few hun players in the squad who could presumably try and help out some of the younger players through the game.

 

I didn't think the Czechs were that great. We allowed them to just come at us until they scored. We'd hoof the ball up the park and no-one would be pressuring them at all, we just sat back in our own half waiting for them to come again. There was no-one to aim up top and we struggled to get anyone forward with any sort of support.