Borders rail link

[davemclaren]

Better get me to the match on time today.

[Cigaro]

We turn left at Melville so I'm not sure. My assumption on the park and ride is that it would be better placed on the Midlothian side of sheriffhall and set back from the A7. I wouldn't use Sheriffhall due to the traffic at the roundabout.

 

 

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Worst bit of that journey is getting up the a7 from tesco to the melville. Traffic from there to sheriffhall is usually fine.

 

I still drive to work and the roads don't seem any less busy. If anything they've seemed worse!

 

I've used the train twice and my journey into town has been free each time. That's from Newtongrange to Waverley.

 

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[davemclaren]

Worst bit of that journey is getting up the a7 from tesco to the melville. Traffic from there to sheriffhall is usually fine.

 

I still drive to work and the roads don't seem any less busy. If anything they've seemed worse!

 

I've used the train twice and my journey into town has been free each time. That's from Newtongrange to Waverley.

 

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Most folks are honest though imo and will buy a ticket if they can. On the train back now and some folk standing until newcraighall.

[Cigaro]

Most folks are honest though imo and will buy a ticket if they can. On the train back now and some folk standing until newcraighall.

I had every intention of buying a ticket but no conductor came round. There was a few folk on the same train yesterday saying the same thing. Given it wasn't a busy train I'm surprised no one was able to get along it to check tickets.

 

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[Bungalow Bill]

Most folks are honest though imo and will buy a ticket if they can. On the train back now and some folk standing until newcraighall.

I had every intention of buying a ticket but no conductor came round. There was a few folk on the same train yesterday saying the same thing. Given it wasn't a busy train I'm surprised no one was able to get along it to check tickets.

 

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In fairness, the machines at the station only take card (I think) so some folk have no option but to board and buy a ticket. What can you do if a conductor doesn't come round?

 

I always find the checking of tickets bizarre on a train, the conductor is usually just relying on the honesty of the passenger, why they don't have barriers at all entrances/exits I have no idea.

 

 

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[davemclaren]

I had every intention of buying a ticket but no conductor came round. There was a few folk on the same train yesterday saying the same thing. Given it wasn't a busy train I'm surprised no one was able to get along it to check tickets.

 

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I wasn't imlying you wouldn't. How the conductors work does seem a bit random. .

[maltese jambo]

Think its a great new line. And although its busy, would rather have it like that and hopefully making money as opposed to running around empty. Hopefully will make the council think about opening up south suburban line as well, along with station at Portobello. Something that will actually help the people of Edinburgh.

[The Real Maroonblood]

On 04/11/2015 at 07:23, Apache Mal said:

It makes perfect sense to get the train from Gorebridge, but ?100 a month for a train pass? Is that cheap? Genuine question I might add.

 

 

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4 million passengers in 3 years.

Very good. 

[Clark Griswold]

Is it single track all the way down to Tweedbank from newcraighall?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

27 minutes ago, Clark Griswold said:

Is it single track all the way down to Tweedbank from newcraighall?

 

Yes, but it does have twin tracks in various places allowing the trains to pass each other.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

I went down to Gala in the summer and it only cost £11 pound or so return

[graygo]

1 hour ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

4m passengers crammed into a too small train, FINDLAY GET IT SORTED!☺

 

A seriously good service though which has made a big difference to midlothian and the borders. Surely should be extended to Hawick though.

 

The plan is Hawick then onto Carlisle.

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, BarneyBattles said:

 

4m passengers crammed into a too small train, FINDLAY GET IT SORTED!☺

 

A seriously good service though which has made a big difference to midlothian and the borders. Surely should be extended to Hawick though.

I'm on the case honestly.

[Carl Fredrickson]

I love the service (though not a Friday at the start of August when it took me 2.5 hours to get from Haymarket to Gorebridge)

 

Would love to see the line extended and the number of passengers surely justifies it. 

[Cade]

A victim of its own success.

 

Every estimate of passenger numbers was seriously lower than the actual demand.

Scotrail really do need to double the length of the trains at peak times as it's totally rammed with folk.

Rolling stock is in shortage nationwide though, so that may take some time.

 

Plans are to restore the rest of the original Waverley line all the way to Carlisle. No idea if widening the line to two lines along the entire length is feasible or not.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

15 minutes ago, Carl Fredrickson said:

I love the service (though not a Friday at the start of August when it took me 2.5 hours to get from Haymarket to Gorebridge)

 

Would love to see the line extended and the number of passengers surely justifies it. 

 

Would love to see the line brought back to my side of the Borders as well (Innerleithen), but they chose the Gorebridge/Stow side in favour of our side.

 

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

 

The plan is Hawick then onto Carlisle.

There are no plans for that....only hopes

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

A victim of its own success.

 

Every estimate of passenger numbers was seriously lower than the actual demand.

Scotrail really do need to double the length of the trains at peak times as it's totally rammed with folk.

Rolling stock is in shortage nationwide though, so that may take some time.

 

Plans are to restore the rest of the original Waverley line all the way to Carlisle. No idea if widening the line to two lines along the entire length is feasible or not.

 

Seen more 3 & 4 carriages recently, but I agree with you, as I've been on it when there are 2 carriages going through to Edinburgh in the morning and it's rammed by the time you leave Stow.

[graygo]

1 minute ago, Ricardo Shillyshally said:

There are no plans for that....only hopes

 

Sorry, you are correct.

[jack D and coke]

There really needs to be massive investment in the railways and trams right across Edinburgh and the lothians or the place is going to grind to a halt in the next 10-15 years. A think tank predicted that borders railway would fail miserably but it’s been a huge success. 

Build nothing but houses and do things like narrow roads for traffic calming and bring in 20 mph zones. Driving or getting around around town now during peak times is really bad. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

There really needs to be massive investment in the railways and trams right across Edinburgh and the lothians or the place is going to grind to a halt in the next 10-15 years. A think tank predicted that borders railway would fail miserably but it’s been a huge success. 

Build nothing but houses and do things like narrow roads for traffic calming and bring in 20 mph zones. Driving or getting around around town now during peak times is really bad. 

 

My next door neighbours moved from Edinburgh (Leith) down to Innerleithen, the guy gets the bus into work which takes around about 90 minutes and he's told me that that is quicker than it used to take him travelling from Leith to his work at the other side on Edinburgh, notwithstanding the fact that they have a mortgage for a 3 bedroom house at about half the cost their rent used to cost them in Leith.

 

[jack D and coke]

9 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

My next door neighbours moved from Edinburgh (Leith) down to Innerleithen, the guy gets the bus into work which takes around about 90 minutes and he's told me that that is quicker than it used to take him travelling from Leith to his work at the other side on Edinburgh, notwithstanding the fact that they have a mortgage for a 3 bedroom house at about half the cost their rent used to cost them in Leith.

 

That doesn’t surprise me, you can get brilliant value for money a bit out of town now. I hate having to use the bypass and get through town now at certain times, absolutely brutal being honest. 

Parking charges are getting worse too it’s becoming a real pain in the arse. 

[Restonbabe]

Our AGM for the campaign to reopen the train stations at Reston and East Linton is the 19th September at Reston Town Hall. In attendance will be Jonathan pugh who is the network rail director for  Scotland and Gordon mcleod transport Scotland. 

I'm sure they will be taking questions on the border rail line if you attend. 

 

This one is a biggie. It's coming up for the planned cp6 projects and we need to know that the building of the stations have been approved.

[Pans Jambo]

55 minutes ago, Restonbabe said:

Our AGM for the campaign to reopen the train stations at Reston and East Linton is the 19th September at Reston Town Hall. In attendance will be Jonathan pugh who is the network rail director for  Scotland and Gordon mcleod transport Scotland. 

I'm sure they will be taking questions on the border rail line if you attend. 

 

This one is a biggie. It's coming up for the planned cp6 projects and we need to know that the building of the stations have been approved.

East Linton has been shafted with both the new A1 not having a junction there & the train station being closed. Lovely place as well but it could have so much more potential. 

The Dunbar/Edinburgh train service isnt great either. 

Remind me where Reston is?

 

Edit: got it. Down A1 towards Eyemouth. 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Pans Jambo

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

Personally don't think that the railway will ever be extended beyond tweedbank. It's good at taking people out of the Borders to Edinburgh. I'm not sure there is enough demand  for people to travel from Hawick to Gala and beyond, as nice as it would be. Anyone south of Tweedbank that needs it is probably already using it.

[Dunks]

It's a potential strategic route as an alternative to the East and West Coast lines if completed to Carlisle. Problem there that to be a real alternative, it also needs to be electrified.

 

 

[davemclaren]

Can’t see it ever going to Carlisle but Hawick is a possibility. 

[John Findlay]

Won't go further than present for a very long time. Not very high on the list of priorities for either UK or Scottish governments. 

[jumpship]

22 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Can’t see it ever going to Carlisle but Hawick is a possibility. 

Hope your wrong, as it's been said. Complete success in numbers terms. Seriously lacking in pre-planing. 

 

Twin track and double the carriages.  That's just for starters... 

 

If it makes it down to Carlisle I would expect numbers to double... trains are rammed during festival and Christmas/New year. Could you imagine what it would be like if it make it to England.  

[John Findlay]

Consider this. 26 miles of rail called crossrail built in London at a cost of 15 Billion pounds. Stop a minute and take that figure in. Border railway. Roughly same mileage. Didn't have 1/30th of that cost spent on it. Was an opportunity missed by shortsighted politicians both north and south of the border.

[Homme]

I know a lot of work has gone into investigating the above options on the ECML and Borders route.

 

You may all be pleasantly surprised in the not too distant future.

[davemclaren]

34 minutes ago, jumpship said:

Hope your wrong, as it's been said. Complete success in numbers terms. Seriously lacking in pre-planing. 

 

Twin track and double the carriages.  That's just for starters... 

 

If it makes it down to Carlisle I would expect numbers to double... trains are rammed during festival and Christmas/New year. Could you imagine what it would be like if it make it to England.  

It was always the slowest route to England  and couldn’t compete with the two othe routes. Hardly anyone lives between Hawick and Carlisle to support any local traffic either. 

[Homme]

8 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

It was always the slowest route to England  and couldn’t compete with the two othe routes. Hardly anyone lives between Hawick and Carlisle to support any local traffic either. 

 

Exactly. Some Christmas lights and comedy shows aren't much of a business case.

 

That said, the Borders and Airdrie to Bathgate have been huge successes so i'm sure whatever happens the right decision will be made.

[jumpship]

1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

It was always the slowest route to England  and couldn’t compete with the two othe routes. Hardly anyone lives between Hawick and Carlisle to support any local traffic either. 

I'm always one to fine a counter argument, even when it's really weak..?

 

The same argument was made about the border railway. The argument against that was it would encourage housing development along that route. Look at the state of midlothian. Every bit of lad is being built on. 

 

It's the future. "Stop being old and stuck in your ways, dave" ?

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, jumpship said:

I'm always one to fine a counter argument, even when it's really weak..?

 

The same argument was made about the border railway. The argument against that was it would encourage housing development along that route. Look at the state of midlothian. Every bit of lad is being built on. 

 

It's the future. "Stop being old and stuck in your ways, dave" ?

I can’t see much demand for new housing between Hawick and Carlisle. ?

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

4 hours ago, davemclaren said:

I can’t see much demand for new housing between Hawick and Carlisle. ?

For that reason wouldn't it be better to run it east from Tweedbank to Berwick and take in Melrose and maybe Kelso. Not sure if the terrain would allow the line to go to Hawick and loop back to the east, our border posters might know the answer to that. 

[davemclaren]

13 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

For that reason wouldn't it be better to run it east from Tweedbank to Berwick and take in Melrose and maybe Kelso. Not sure if the terrain would allow the line to go to Hawick and loop back to the east, our border posters might know the answer to that. 

If it goes to Hawick it will go through Melrose and Newtown anyway. Hawick is really the only ‘viable’ destination imo ( if you weigh the CBA heavily on soft development benefits).

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

I found this map of the old borders routes and you can see how there were lines linking the east coast line and the borders railway as it now stands.

[FWJ]

24 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

For that reason wouldn't it be better to run it east from Tweedbank to Berwick and take in Melrose and maybe Kelso. Not sure if the terrain would allow the line to go to Hawick and loop back to the east, our border posters might know the answer to that. 

Build them both - to Carlisle and to Berwick.  And make some radical improvements to the roads too.

It doesn’t matter what it costs, it’ll still be only a fraction of the Billions being lavished on the roads and railways to Inverness.

It’s about time other rural areas got a bite.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

7 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

If it goes to Hawick it will go through Melrose and Newtown anyway. Hawick is really the only ‘viable’ destination imo ( if you weigh the CBA heavily on soft development benefits).

Yes that is probably right and Hawick has a larger population than the Melrose and Kelso combined anyway. With the textile industry in Hawick decimated a tourist boost for the town might be a good outcome if the line is continued there.

[inspector]

2 carriages on the 16.53 to Tweedbank this evening. In our carriage there were about 30 folk standing including a young mother with a buggy and a toddler who had to stand in the toilet. I am the first to congratulate Scotrail on the Borders Line but why does it take 3 years to realise that at peak times more carriages may be needed. (No problem running 3 carriages off peak though)They have been going on about new units freeing up rolling stock but I'm damned if I see any on the Borders line.  

 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

8 minutes ago, FWJ said:

Build them both - to Carlisle and to Berwick.  And make some radical improvements to the roads too.

It doesn’t matter what it costs, it’ll still be only a fraction of the Billions being lavished on the roads and railways to Inverness.

It’s about time other rural areas got a bite.

I agree with all that except the bit about the A9 which is a huge safety issue. Railways are the future and all areas including the Borders should be treated the same way as the central belt and the Highlands.

[FWJ]

2 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

I agree with all that except the bit about the A9 which is a huge safety issue. Railways are the future and all areas including the Borders should be treated the same way as the central belt and the Highlands.

The A9 is not a particularly dangerous road. There’s plenty as bad, or worse.

https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/News/A82-twice-as-bad-as-A9-for-crashes-07102016.htm

 

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/1548355/new-figures-reveal-accident-blackspots-on-a9-and-a82/

 

 

 

[davemclaren]

6 minutes ago, inspector said:

2 carriages on the 16.53 to Tweedbank this evening. In our carriage there were about 30 folk standing including a young mother with a buggy and a toddler who had to stand in the toilet. I am the first to congratulate Scotrail on the Borders Line but why does it take 3 years to realise that at peak times more carriages may be needed. (No problem running 3 carriages off peak though)They have been going on about new units freeing up rolling stock but I'm damned if I see any on the Borders line.  

 

I have noticed more 3 coach trains recently. Normally the overcrowding eases after Newcraighall but commuters the world over moan about overcrowding in the rush-hour. 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

1 minute ago, FWJ said:

The A9 is not a particularly dangerous road. There’s plenty as bad, or worse.

https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/News/A82-twice-as-bad-as-A9-for-crashes-07102016.htm

 

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/1548355/new-figures-reveal-accident-blackspots-on-a9-and-a82/

 

 

 

Since they brought in the average speed cams it is a lot safer I agree. I have relatives who live beside it so maybe that sways me a bit and being stuck behind a caravan for miles on end is frustrating at times.

[FWJ]

1 minute ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

Since they brought in the average speed cams it is a lot safer I agree. I have relatives who live beside it so maybe that sways me a bit and being stuck behind a caravan for miles on end is frustrating at times.

As I say, it’s about time other rural parts of Scotland got their share of the colossal investment that is being showered on part of the highlands.  The Borders needs to shout a bit louder.

[superjack]

45 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

Since they brought in the average speed cams it is a lot safer I agree. I have relatives who live beside it so maybe that sways me a bit and being stuck behind a caravan for miles on end is frustrating at times.

I don't think the average speed cameras made much difference, allowing lorries to drive at 50 mph instead of 40 helped more IMO of course. I always found what caused the dangerous driving was people being stuck behind a lorry for ages then getting frustrated and eventually taking chances to get passed.

[FWJ]

4 minutes ago, superjack said:

I don't think the average speed cameras made much difference, allowing lorries to drive at 50 mph instead of 40 helped more IMO of course. I always found what caused the dangerous driving was people being stuck behind a lorry for ages then getting frustrated and eventually taking chances to get passed.

This is going way OT but (as someone who lives in Inverness and travels on it daily and between Inverness and Perth at least twice a week) if anything the road is over engineered from when it was completely rebuilt 30 years ago.  If it’s quiet (and it is, plenty) then cruise control on the car has, I’m sure, saved my licence.  It’s so easy to find yourself doing 80 because the curves are so wide and the grades so gentle.

 

Anyway.  Borders Railway.  Like every other rail re-opening, a huge success.  Get it down to Carlisle then reopen the lines to Leven and St. Andrews and reopen the direct route to Perth.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, superjack said:

I don't think the average speed cameras made much difference, allowing lorries to drive at 50 mph instead of 40 helped more IMO of course. I always found what caused the dangerous driving was people being stuck behind a lorry for ages then getting frustrated and eventually taking chances to get passed.

You find that the lorries tend to bunch up and you get three or four together with no space to get back in if you try to pass one. Sometimes you think the truck is the only vehicle in front of you but when you pull out you find there is actually a smaller van in front of it. Mind you that happens on all non dual carriage way roads not just the A9.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

4 minutes ago, FWJ said:

This is going way OT but (as someone who lives in Inverness and travels on it daily and between Inverness and Perth at least twice a week) if anything the road is over engineered from when it was completely rebuilt 30 years ago.  If it’s quiet (and it is, plenty) then cruise control on the car has, I’m sure, saved my licence.  It’s so easy to find yourself doing 80 because the curves are so wide and the grades so gentle.

 

Anyway.  Borders Railway.  Like every other rail re-opening, a huge success.  Get it down to Carlisle then reopen the lines to Leven and St. Andrews and reopen the direct route to Perth.

Sorry to stray off the meaning of the thread again but you are right about the nature of the A9. I was coming south once and hit the dueled bit south of Drumochter and kind of switched off listening to the radio or something and the next moment I was doing 85 or something. Worried about the average speed cams I pulled off the road for a few minutes but a high number of cars were still flying passed at over the speed limit. 

I think we need a road thread as well as a rail one.