Borders rail link

[davemclaren]

Is this a great investment for Midlothian and the Borders or a new equivalent of the Edinburgh trams project? Personally I'm looking forward to it.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/south_of_scotland/8546096.stm

Edited March 4, 2010 by davemclaren

[speedbump]

Obviously a great investment in something that is badly needed for the region, hopefully in a few years they will extend the line all the way back down to Carlisle.

[Victorian]

normally i would have said this was a hugely indulgent waste of money but in the current economic climate it's a good thing to undertake large capital projects to keep people in work and stimulate trade.

 

probably the best time it could have been started.

[davemclaren]

Obviously a great investment in something that is badly needed for the region, hopefully in a few years they will extend the line all the way back down to Carlisle.

 

Jeepers, something we agree on.

[speedbump]

normally i would have said this was a hugely indulgent waste of money but in the current economic climate it's a good thing to undertake large capital projects to keep people in work and stimulate trade.

 

probably the best time it could have been started.

 

Indulgent? In what way mate? The Borders are the biggest are of the country without rail links. A prime example of Dr Beeching's short sightedness.

[Victorian]

Indulgent? In what way mate? The Borders are the biggest are of the country without rail links. A prime example of Dr Beeching's short sightedness.

indulgent in that the region has coped perfectly well all these years without it and that it's not something as crucial as say a new forth road bridge for example.

 

the money could feasibly be put to better use however as stated above, capital projects like this are a good thing in economic circumstances like the ones today. people in this sector need works like this to keep people in jobs.

[kitster]

I love East Lothian and the Borders. How many people who work in Edinburgh would be tempted to move out there with better transport links? It will be a great boost to local economies as well as keeping people in work. A transport project I am very much in favour of.

[Everybody loves Baz]

Apparently the station at Gorebridge is going to be outside my local boozer...

 

I'm either gonna end up in Tweedbank or Edinburgh after a few too many when it does eventually happen,

[Dunks]

Indulgent? In what way mate? The Borders are the biggest are of the country without rail links. A prime example of Dr Beeching's short sightedness.

 

First up, completely in favour of this project

 

On the Dr Beeching reference though, what he actually reported to the then Conservative Government was that the Waverley Line was uneconomic to run and should be closed, but only if it was to be replaced by a dual carriageway running from Edinburgh to Carlisle via Galashiels and Hawick. So the Tories carried out part one and didn't bother with part two.

 

In 2010, it is significantly cheaper to reinstate part one and forget all about part two

[Dunks]

Apparently the station at Gorebridge is going to be outside my local boozer...

 

I'm either gonna end up in Tweedbank or Edinburgh after a few too many when it does eventually happen,

 

If your local boozer is the one next to St Margaret's, then yes

[blondejamtart]

If your local boozer is the one next to St Margaret's, then yes

 

 

That's where the original station was, certainly...my parents used to live in the station house (now said boozer!) before I was born. We used to get the train all the time because my dad worked for British Rail. I remember watching the last train to run on the Waverley Line, and the special train which came to lift the tracks. Such a short-sighted decision to close the line...

 

 

 

Mind you, the local wildlife is going to get one hell of a fright when the trains start running again - the line is one giant rabbit warren these days!

 

 

[kitster]

First up, completely in favour of this project

 

On the Dr Beeching reference though, what he actually reported to the then Conservative Government was that the Waverley Line was uneconomic to run and should be closed, but only if it was to be replaced by a dual carriageway running from Edinburgh to Carlisle via Galashiels and Hawick. So the Tories carried out part one and didn't bother with part two.

 

In 2010, it is significantly cheaper to reinstate part one and forget all about part two

 

I think so as well. My grandfather would be well chuffed, that railway is part of my heritage.

[davemclaren]

That's where the original station was, certainly...my parents used to live in the station house (now said boozer!) before I was born. We used to get the train all the time because my dad worked for British Rail. I remember watching the last train to run on the Waverley Line, and the special train which came to lift the tracks. Such a short-sighted decision to close the line...

 

 

 

Mind you, the local wildlife is going to get one hell of a fright when the trains start running again - the line is one giant rabbit warren these days!

 

 

http://www.gorebridge.org.uk/history/content.asp?ID=102

[kitster]

That's where the original station was, certainly...my parents used to live in the station house (now said boozer!) before I was born. We used to get the train all the time because my dad worked for British Rail. I remember watching the last train to run on the Waverley Line, and the special train which came to lift the tracks. Such a short-sighted decision to close the line...

 

 

 

Mind you, the local wildlife is going to get one hell of a fright when the trains start running again - the line is one giant rabbit warren these days!

 

 

Wow..my dad grew up round your parts ..my grandad was a station master in the 50s/60s and the station house they lived in Newtongrange has been converted into something much grander now. I never met him...he died when my dad was still quite young but he'd have hated what happened to his beloved railway. To have it back in his memory would be wonderful

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

No rail link between the airport and the town, enough said.

[Victorian]

No rail link between the airport and the town, enough said.

stop moaning there's taxis there.

[Ben Dover]

first estimated at ?166m IN 2006 and now 'Cost estimates range from ?235m to ?295m'

If it's like any other Govt project then you can probably double that for a start !

I'm actually all for it but I do wonder if it will ever happen.

Completion in 5 years - nah

I'm also pretty sure the compulsory house purchase, To allow demolition of those new dwellings built on the old track, was intentionally f**** up to introduce a convenient delay.

[dougiea]

First up, completely in favour of this project

 

On the Dr Beeching reference though, what he actually reported to the then Conservative Government was that the Waverley Line was uneconomic to run and should be closed, but only if it was to be replaced by a dual carriageway running from Edinburgh to Carlisle via Galashiels and Hawick. So the Tories carried out part one and didn't bother with part two.

 

In 2010, it is significantly cheaper to reinstate part one and forget all about part two

 

Waverley Line was closed in January 1969 by a Labour Government. Barbara Castle was Transport Minster - in the days before this was a devolved matter.

[maltese jambo]

Surely the priority should have been for the old suburban lines to be re-opened first; or out to the airport. Much greater demand there.

[Ribble]

Not sure how much of a sucess this will be tbh, If I still lived in Gorebridge then would I pay an extra ?5 per day just to save 10-15mins each way? Don't think I would to be honest! I'm sure it will be great for those travelling daily from Gala but don't see it being used all that much by anyone from Gorebridge or closer!

[redm]

I love East Lothian and the Borders. How many people who work in Edinburgh would be tempted to move out there with better transport links? It will be a great boost to local economies as well as keeping people in work. A transport project I am very much in favour of.

 

Yep, there are a whole host of farmers, land owners and developers who have been patiently waiting for years for this project to get going. It'll change a whole host of things for the people who live there. Yes, some will make a decent amount of cash out of it but it means stimulating the housing market, improving other infrastructure (utilities, public amenities etc.), tons of work for contractors/developers and such like. Lots of good things.

[Dunks]

Waverley Line was closed in January 1969 by a Labour Government. Barbara Castle was Transport Minster - in the days before this was a devolved matter.

 

I stand corrected. The review was I believe instigated by a Conservative Government was it not?

 

Just to clarify, the work has not actually started yet, the Act has been enacted. That is a committment to the project.

 

In construction terms, this is a European Procurement that is currently at the Pre-Qualification stage. This is used to reduce the number of tenderers in the next stage. It is a design and build contract (hopefully fixed price!), so the indicative design available on line is simply that. Also worth noting that the various land deals are 99% agreed, so there should be no delays there.

[dougiea]

I stand corrected. The review was I believe instigated by a Conservative Government was it not?

 

Just to clarify, the work has not actually started yet, the Act has been enacted. That is a committment to the project.

 

In construction terms, this is a European Procurement that is currently at the Pre-Qualification stage. This is used to reduce the number of tenderers in the next stage. It is a design and build contract (hopefully fixed price!), so the indicative design available on line is simply that. Also worth noting that the various land deals are 99% agreed, so there should be no delays there.

 

Beeching was chair of the British Railways Board and 'Beeching 1' in 1963 was commissioned by a Tory Transport Minister - Ernest Marples - who just happened to be a partner in one of the major road building firms, so sleaze is nothing new. Marples obviously missed a trick with the non appearance of a dualled A7.

 

The actual closures took place over a period of time 1963-1969. Some of the lines recommended for closure (eg the West Highland Line and North Berwick Branch) were kept open.

[Carl Fredrickson]

That's where the original station was, certainly...my parents used to live in the station house (now said boozer!) before I was born. We used to get the train all the time because my dad worked for British Rail. I remember watching the last train to run on the Waverley Line, and the special train which came to lift the tracks. Such a short-sighted decision to close the line...

 

 

 

Mind you, the local wildlife is going to get one hell of a fright when the trains start running again - the line is one giant rabbit warren these days!

 

Have you looked under "The Brig" at the old station recently?

I doubt you will find many bunnies.

Drunken teens YES but no bunnies

Edited March 5, 2010 by bagger1970

[speedbump]

Have you looked under "The Brig" at the old station recently?

I doubt you will find many bunnies.

Drunken teens YES but no bunnies

 

At it like rabbits no doubt.

[blondejamtart]

Have you looked under "The Brig" at the old station recently?

I doubt you will find many bunnies.

Drunken teens YES but no bunnies

 

 

I'm usually walking in the opposite direction, to be honest - towards Fushie, and my black Lab brings home plenty of evidence that's there's bunnies living on the old rail line! But yes, I know exactly what you mean - there's also plenty of evidence of more nefarious activities closer to the old station itself...

[Currahee!]

I stand corrected. The review was I believe instigated by a Conservative Government was it not?

 

Just to clarify, the work has not actually started yet, the Act has been enacted. That is a committment to the project.

 

In construction terms, this is a European Procurement that is currently at the Pre-Qualification stage. This is used to reduce the number of tenderers in the next stage. It is a design and build contract (hopefully fixed price!), so the indicative design available on line is simply that. Also worth noting that the various land deals are 99% agreed, so there should be no delays there.

 

Alright Dunc hows things?

 

You are the 1st person I've heard from the Borders who actually wants this. A single track from the edge of Edinburgh to Tweedbank. Why a single track? And it's not going to carry freight.

 

Your correct about the Act being enacted. We are diverting the gas main in Wheatlands Road in Gala along with the water main. They are now committed.

 

A dual carriageway from Carlisle to Edinburgh would have been more sensible. What you said in an earlier post about the Tories doing away with the railway and then backtracking on the road is wrong. It was the Maxwell-Scott's from Abbotsford who stopped it. They said the beauty of the Borders must not be spoilt by a motorway.

 

So these toffs who couldn't care less about you or me have made the Borders stand still while the rest of the country have progressed.

 

The Borders has nothing. No railway. No motorway or dual carriageway. No airport. No teams in the league. etc. etc.

[Mikey Gardiner]

for once they have actually invested in something useful and i too am looking forward to it.

[davemclaren]

Alright Dunc hows things?

 

You are the 1st person I've heard from the Borders who actually wants this. A single track from the edge of Edinburgh to Tweedbank. Why a single track? And it's not going to carry freight.

 

Your correct about the Act being enacted. We are diverting the gas main in Wheatlands Road in Gala along with the water main. They are now committed.

 

A dual carriageway from Carlisle to Edinburgh would have been more sensible. What you said in an earlier post about the Tories doing away with the railway and then backtracking on the road is wrong. It was the Maxwell-Scott's from Abbotsford who stopped it. They said the beauty of the Borders must not be spoilt by a motorway.

 

So these toffs who couldn't care less about you or me have made the Borders stand still while the rest of the country have progressed.

 

The Borders has nothing. No railway. No motorway or dual carriageway. No airport. No teams in the league. etc. etc.

 

 

There does seem to be a misconception that it will run from 'the edge of Edinburgh' when it will be fully connected into Waverley and Haymarket.

[Radioactive Mince]

In time-honoured KB tradition, I'll post a funny pic mocking people from any non-Edinburgh settlement.

 

3rd March 2013

Scottish Borders and Midlothian residents turned out en-masse for their first trip into civilisation in over 40 years:

Shuggie McNeill, Gorebridge, reckons the new link will mean easier travel into Edinburgh for livestock fairs. The 36 year old bestiality practitioner and part time jakey said "I reckon the new link will make travelling into Edinburgh for my livestock fairs a lot easier".

 

Mince

Edited March 5, 2010 by Radioactive Mince

[davemclaren]

Started this thread a while back. Certainly a lot of evidence now that construction of the railway is underway. Hard to believe it is actually happening to be honest.

[Coco]

Started this thread a while back. Certainly a lot of evidence now that construction of the railway is underway. Hard to believe it is actually happening to be honest.

 

Really is disappointing that they have gone ahead with it and are wasting half the money they spend on this.

 

Unbelievable that they cannot find projects which offer a better cost benefit ratio than 0.5.

[davemclaren]

Really is disappointing that they have gone ahead with it and are wasting half the money they spend on this.

 

Unbelievable that they cannot find projects which offer a better cost benefit ratio than 0.5.

 

To be fair that was calculated at the trough of the current economic cycle so is likely to be a worst case figure.

[Jambos_1874]

The biggest mistake was getting rid of the railway in the first place. I think the bus links between Edinburgh and the Borders are pretty good (albeit a bit too pricey) so I really can't see the point in building the new line as the route isn't particularly good and I don't think it's going to be signifcantly quicker or cheaper (probably neither) than getting the bus.

[davemclaren]

The biggest mistake was getting rid of the railway in the first place. I think the bus links between Edinburgh and the Borders are pretty good (albeit a bit too pricey) so I really can't see the point in building the new line as the route isn't particularly good and I don't think it's going to be signifcantly quicker or cheaper (probably neither) than getting the bus.

 

Certainly quicker during the rush hour. Time from Gala is to be under an hour.

[Jambos_1874]

Certainly quicker during the rush hour. Time from Gala is to be under an hour.

 

Unfortunately it's probably still not enough to tempt people out of their cars. That said, the A7 is a nightmare of a road so any alternative is welcome.

[FWJ]

Plenty of money being lavished on the (east) Highlands - ?3 Billion on the A9.

About time other rural parts of Scotland saw a bit of the action.

[systemx]

Remember speaking to a house builder from Kelso who told me that Kelso had a railway station 20 miles away in Berwick and nobody from the town used it so why the f"*k would they travel 20 miles to Gala to get a slower train.

The justification for re-opening the line was that it was to serve the thousands of houses that were to be built ,according to the Borders local plan,on or near the line

.That plan has basically been ripped up since the banking crisis and the backside fell out of the housing market.

It would have cost around the same to build the line to Gorebridge ,with a large park and ride there,and connecting it near Shawfair or Newcraighall to a revived South Sub.

[davemclaren]

Remember speaking to a house builder from Kelso who told me that Kelso had a railway station 20 miles away in Berwick and nobody from the town used it so why the f"*k would they travel 20 miles to Gala to get a slower train.

The justification for re-opening the line was that it was to serve the thousands of houses that were to be built ,according to the Borders local plan,on or near the line

.That plan has basically been ripped up since the banking crisis and the backside fell out of the housing market.

It would have cost around the same to build the line to Gorebridge ,with a large park and ride there,and connecting it near Shawfair or Newcraighall to a revived South Sub.

 

I doubt anyone from Kelso will drive to Gala to get a train to be honest. They would expect travellers from Hawick, Melrose, Newtown St. Boswells an Selkirk though as they generally head up that way to get to Edinburgh. A park and ride at Gorebridge or Middleton would have been another option however. The railway would then still serve Midlothian where the population density is highest.

Edited April 30, 2013 by davemclaren

[Prince Buaben]

Are they not building a village round the station just outside danderhall??(shawfield it will be called)

[Carl Fredrickson]

I am unsure of the costs/expected benefits etc but it will make life easier for us by having a local station to get a train into Edinburgh for awaydays etc as our bus service is awful.

 

Will also come in handy for my mum visiting my sister in Gala.

 

Would probably use it too if it were ever extended to Carlisle.

[Ribble]

I can see why it might be good for folk from Gala but I really couldn't have seen me using the train if I still lived in Gorebridge. It would just be far too expensive for what it is!

 

I currently commute by train from Edinburgh to Livi and the only reason it is financially viable is that it isn't that much more expensive than the bus, day return for 1hr 10min Bus is ?6.20, day return for 20 min train is ?8.

 

The train from Gorebridge is going to be a similar price to my journey so it's going to be say ?8 return for a 30 min train v ?3 for an hour on the bus, not to mention that the location of the station in Gorebridge means that if you lived at the other side of the village you have say a 20 min walk to get to the station rather than 2 mins to the nearest bus stop which means you are then paying ?5 a day to save 10 mins!

 

Even then that doesn't factor in people getting to work from the train station, how many people work right near the east end of Princes Street? I remember getting the bus in from Gorebridge and most folk either got off before the bridges or stayed on to get as close to the west end as possible!

[Cruyff Turn]

I think it's shite as it only goes as far as Tweedbank. It should go through Melrose then to the likes of Hawick, Langholm to Carlisle.

 

It's a half arsed improvement but it still isn't good enough for the majority of folk in the borders.

[Carl Fredrickson]

I think it's shite as it only goes as far as Tweedbank. It should go through Melrose then to the likes of Hawick, Langholm to Carlisle.

 

It's a half arsed improvement but it still isn't good enough for the majority of folk in the borders.

 

I agree with this - I cant understand why the track will not run to Melrose. It is only a couple of mile from Tweedbank and Melrose could attract tourists and rugby fans alike.

[Coco]

I agree with this - I cant understand why the track will not run to Melrose. It is only a couple of mile from Tweedbank and Melrose could attract tourists and rugby fans alike.

 

Isn't the old line to Melrose built over with a road?

 

Perhaps they think that the line will be such a success that there will be a clamour for it to be extended to Carlisle.

 

It is incredible how pork barrel politics overtakes economic reality. If there are really no projects with a cost:benefit ratio of above 0.5 available to the Scottish Government then it is time that taxes came down.

[LeftBack]

Personally and as someone who lives 20 miles from Galashiels and who commutes to Edinburgh every day the railway is an irrelevance.

 

Why would I drive for 25 mins, pay for a train (going to be at least ?50 a week presumably or certainly around that), travel for over an hour, have to get a bus the other end and then co-ordinate my day to get train home. Then a further hour plus and another 25 drive. So a round-trip would be around four hours compared to three door-to-door. Plus around ?50 a week for a ticket less some petrol. And I would still need insurance and road tax.

 

I accept the investment is good for economic reasons and environmental ones too but why should I spend more time and money on something when I still contribute economically and environmentally in other ways.

 

The whole idea was a sop to the Liberals in the first coalition and who were in the majority in the Borders.

 

Dual-carriage way the A68 and it would shave 15 mins off journeys. But of course cars are bad.

[Jambos_1874]

Isn't the old line to Melrose built over with a road?

 

Perhaps they think that the line will be such a success that there will be a clamour for it to be extended to Carlisle.

 

It is incredible how pork barrel politics overtakes economic reality. If there are really no projects with a cost:benefit ratio of above 0.5 available to the Scottish Government then it is time that taxes came down.

 

Yes, the Melrose bypass runs along the old railway line route.

[Currahee!]

Unfortunately it's probably still not enough to tempt people out of their cars. That said, the A7 is a nightmare of a road so any alternative is welcome.

 

The A7 is a decent road. Its the lorries and idiots breaking when they don't need to that are the nightmare.

 

I can get from my house in Selkirk to the bypass in 40 minutes if the traffic is reasonable.

 

In saying that it should be at least a dual carriageway.

[davemclaren]

Certainly the work to build the new Hardengreen viaduct is very obvious at the roundabout. Hopefully be pretty impressive when it is built.

Edited May 25, 2013 by davemclaren

[jim747]

I think it's a great idea, but it should go all the way to Carlisle. I'm damn sure if I lived in Selkirk or further south I wouldn't be driving to tweedbank to leave my car there all day, get the train to Edinburgh, and then probably a bus to work or Tynecastle or wherever.

 

Having said that, once i'm in the car, the next stop is either for petrol or my final destination.

Edited May 25, 2013 by jim747