SPL Referee's accused of hounding Hearts Lithuanian Players

[Dazo]

Then try and read the comments instead of focusing too much on who made the comment.

 

Come on Gambo surely you have to acknowledge the person who is making the comments to enable yourself to judge the merits of what is being said. I don't think I have focused on too much on who made the comments however even a blind man can see he is singing from the same hymn sheet as VR, who incidentally is his boss.

[davemclaren]

SPL referees can be criticised for many things but racism isn't one of them as far as I can see.

[ToadKiller Dog]

I find this whole issue is pretty simple and some people are looking to deep to find examples to suit there own views.

 

In terms of Hearts as a club ,they have said the reluctantly have to accept the Brines decision but will campaign for change in the reviews decisions policy.Which Is correct and right.

 

In terms of the Treatment of the Lithuanians ,it does not matter if you or i think there is no substance to the claims ,The fact is now 2 or more lithuanians players have went on record to say the feel that they are not getting fair treatment from the games officials and in so feel they need to move elsewhere to get fair treatment ,In that the LFA have to right and should as such ask the Question of the SFA why there nationals feel as much.

The SFA as do Hearts under employment law have a duty of care to all the players regardless of nationality that allows the player to feel happy and that they are treated with equality and fairness in as such.

Since the players feel this is not happening they should have the full backing of the players union to ask the SFA to look into the claims and the SFA are duty bound to do such a review.

 

The first step for the SFA would be to release a statement in which they state that they fully support the right of all players to be able to practice there trade in a fair and equal manner regardless of nationality and that they take the complaints of said lithuanian players very seriously and will have a full review of the matter ,but i expect the SFA to go down the road of a war of words with the LFA.

[Paolo]

Certainly in games I've watched DH Miko, Velicka & Ksanavicius were all carded more often for simulation than Clarkson, Nakamura, Mackie, Boyd, Broadfoot, Darcheville etc.

 

And Lee Miller - even the commentry team on Radio Scotland have said it is clever play, whenever he does it.

[Dazo]

 

The first step for the SFA would be to release a statement in which they state that they fully support the right of all players to be able to practice there trade in a fair and equal manner regardless of nationality and that they take the complaints of said lithuanian players very seriously and will have a full review of the matter ,but i expect the SFA to go down the road of a war of words with the LFA.

 

 

Completely agree with that.

[sandyseymour]

I don't recall Velcka or Ksanavicius being unfairly carded too often for simulation.

 

Infact Velicka got a player Red Carded by feigning injury.

 

 

Miko is another case altogether.

 

I certainly recall Ksanavicius being "assaulted" in one game and being denied a stone wall penalty...I think he was also yellow carded for simulation :xmasgrin:

[sandyseymour]

I've made my mind up, that because he's a paid employee of VR, and a Lithuanian his comments come with a large pinch of salt.

 

If he wasn't connected in any way to VR, his comments would carry more weight IMO.

 

:xmasgrin:

[Dirk Diggler]

I certainly recall Ksanavicius being "assaulted" in one game and being denied a stone wall penalty...I think he was also yellow carded for simulation :xmasgrin:

 

At Parkhead in the CIS cup game. Booked (wrongly) in the first 10 mins or so.

 

I can also remember Velicka being booked for simulation in a game v Hibs at Tynecastle. TV pictures proved it was never a dive.

[Drylaw Hearts]

I certainly recall Ksanavicius being "assaulted" in one game and being denied a stone wall penalty...I think he was also yellow carded for simulation :xmasgrin:

 

And ?

 

The same happened to Kirk Broadfoot a few backs back.

[Gambo]

 

 

In terms of the Treatment of the Lithuanians ,it does not matter if you or i think there is no substance to the claims ,The fact is now 2 or more lithuanians players have went on record to say the feel that they are not getting fair treatment from the games officials and in so feel they need to move elsewhere to get fair treatment ,In that the LFA have to right and should as such ask the Question of the SFA why there nationals feel as much. Correct in what you say about the LFA having a right to ask questions, pity it holds no credibility though due to any link with VR.:xmastongue:

The SFA as do Hearts under employment law have a duty of care to all the players regardless of nationality that allows the player to feel happy and that they are treated with equality and fairness in as such.

Since the players feel this is not happening they should have the full backing of the players union to ask the SFA to look into the claims and the SFA are duty bound to do such a review. You would also expect them to have the support of the fans.

 

The first step for the SFA would be to release a statement in which they state that they fully support the right of all players to be able to practice there trade in a fair and equal manner regardless of nationality and that they take the complaints of said lithuanian players very seriously and will have a full review of the matter ,but i expect the SFA to go down the road of a war of words with the LFA. I agree

 

.

[Drylaw Hearts]

You would also expect them to have the support of the fans.

 

Why ?

 

As we've leaned from previous players statements (Riccarton 3) - that doesn't always happen.

[Gambo]

And ?

 

The same happened to Kirk Broadfoot a few backs back.

 

You could pick out all day long similar incidents for different players, that is the nature of football. It is just a pity that this seems to happen more often than most to our players and in particular incidencies ie punishment for alleged diving, our Lithuanian players.

 

Whilst you are entitled to your opinion i do not think that in reallity that you think all things are equal and we(even more so our Lithuanians) are treated as equally as everyone else as a whole, as you seem to be making out.

[Drylaw Hearts]

You could pick out all day long similar incidents for different players, that is the nature of football. It is just a pity that this seems to happen more often than most to our players and in particular incidencies ie punishment for alleged diving, our Lithuanian players.

 

Whilst you are entitled to your opinion i do not think that in reallity that you think all things are equal and we(even more so our Lithuanians) are treated as equally as everyone else as a whole, as you seem to be making out.

 

Ok.

 

Leaving out Miko as he has become a seperate case altogether :

 

How many times has a Hearts/Lithuanian player been unjustly booked for diving ?

 

How many have they got away with diving ?

 

How many time has the diving led to another player being punished ?

[Gambo]

Why ?

 

As we've leaned from previous players statements (Riccarton 3) - that doesn't always happen.

 

Riccarton was an internal debate/arguement (and like everyone who critisised the recent Arsenal player who spoke out, should have stayed internal).

 

This is outsiders against the Heart of Midlothian FC and players of Heart of Midlothian FC, something i think the club and players would expect support from the supporters on.

[Spellczech]

At last! Strong yet reasoned criticism of the SFA by someone who cannot be touched other than through UEFA, which the SFA will never dare to do. Nice one Mr Varanavicius

[Gambo]

Ok.

 

Leaving out Miko as he has become a seperate case altogether :

 

How many times has a Hearts/Lithuanian player been unjustly booked for diving ?

 

How many have they got away with diving ?

 

How many time has the diving led to another player being punished ?

 

Couldn't tell you.

 

What i would say that take the amount of times Audrey has actually 'dived', and take the amount of times Nakamura or McDonald or Broadfoot have 'dived' and i think Audrey would have a higher ratio of bookings.

 

Why should we leave Miko out of it, he is Lithuanian?

[Drylaw Hearts]

Riccarton was an internal debate/arguement (and like everyone who critisised the recent Arsenal player who spoke out, should have stayed internal).

 

This is outsiders against the Heart of Midlothian FC and players of Heart of Midlothian FC, something i think the club and players would expect support from the supporters on.

 

I would never be so stupid to support something I thought was a load of garbage.

 

 

If that was the case I'd go to ER every other week.

[Gambo]

At Parkhead in the CIS cup game. Booked (wrongly) in the first 10 mins or so.

 

I can also remember Velicka being booked for simulation in a game v Hibs at Tynecastle. TV pictures proved it was never a dive.

 

And in both cases imo there was an eagerness to book them because they were Lithuanian. Plenty of other players have 'diving' reputations but are generally given the benefit of the doubt.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Couldn't tell you.

 

What i would say that take the amount of times Audrey has actually 'dived', and take the amount of times Nakamura or McDonald or Broadfoot have 'dived' and i think Audrey would have a higher ratio of bookings.

 

Why should we leave Miko out of it, he is Lithuanian?

 

If you can't tell me then it suggests you don't know yet you keep posting they are booked for simulation without providing FACTS.

 

 

As i've said Miko is public enemy no.1 and it's not because of Lithuania. If he'd been English and made the same mistakes I think he would still be getting the same level of grief.

[Gambo]

If you can't tell me then it suggests you don't know yet you keep posting they are booked for simulation without providing FACTS.

 

 

As i've said Miko is public enemy no.1 and it's not because of Lithuania. If he'd been English and made the same mistakes I think he would still be getting the same level of grief.

 

I know for a FACT that our Lithuanians have been booked for diving and a lot of the times no actual dive took place.

 

I know for a FACT (well that was my thoughts, but i will play along with your wee deflective game) that a lot of the time our Lithuanian players had to be halved in 2 before the referee would even contemplate giving them a free kick (and that is on a good day). (it's not all about bookings)

 

I know for a FACT(as above) that if Scotland were playing the RoI and McGeady took a dive or if we were playing Australia and McDonald took a dive, or if we were playing Morrocco and Zammamma took a dive, that the press would go over the top in the way that they did with Miko.

 

The press hounding of Miko and our other Lithuanians has been nothing short of shocking and they(the press) do have a lot to do with this situation regarding the Lithuanains, as it is their headlines that the referees read, it is their highlighting of the Lithuanians that the refs remember.

 

Not too many headlines about Miller, but we had pages of Velicka after the Falkirk game. Not too many of the press sticking up for Zaliukas in this clear cut case...................why?

 

How many times have you heard Richard Gordon call for a player to be kicked out the country?

 

 

If you think the Lithuanians have been treated as fairly as everyone else in this country you need to cut back on the lemsips imo.

 

 

Night before the derby party to go to, and as my head is liable to be going round in circles with drink, we will stop this thread going round in circles and agree to disagree.

 

I think they are harshly treated, you think they are treated equally, fine lets move on to something we can both agree on.

 

Lets stuff those reptile mothers fkrs tomorrow! FTH

[Dirk Diggler]

And in both cases imo there was an eagerness to book them because they were Lithuanian. Plenty of other players have 'diving' reputations but are generally given the benefit of the doubt.

 

Agreed.

[Fozzyonthefence]

Don't think there is any doubt the Lithuanians are targetted by refs when it comes to diving. And the reason is simple (but not correct) - Miko's awful bit of cheating against Scotland. Unfortunatley, something done in an international game has come back to haunt our club and is costing us points. This is the main reason I believe we should have got rid of him ages ago (the other is that he is not consistent enough).

[Dr. Bapswent]

Nonsense, its not Xenophobic victimisation, its easy targeting agianst Hearts and VR.

 

If any Liths played for any other team they would NOT be targeted like this , therefore its not Xenophobia.

 

Its incompetence and an SFA attitude towards HMFC that is the disgrace. The fact they are Lithuanian has NOTHING to do with it.

 

Its actually a bit cringeworthy that Hearts have come out with this.

[portobellojambo1]

Originally Posted by Gambo

You would also expect them to have the support of the fans.

I would support Hearts FC in any case they raised with the authorities in relation to incompetence/bias/corruption in relation to referees, but not in the case of xenophobia, simply because the latter is not the case, and if we pushed it we (HMFC) would receive no support, no backing from anywhere.

 

If anyone can prove to me that Zaliukas was sent off on Saturday because Brines is racist rather than totally fecking incompetent, biased and probably corrupt I would consider changing my mind (stating that you thought you saw someone moving his head forward is not racist by the way, all it does is prove he is feckin blind as well). If you cannot do so, then any of the other cases involving Lithuanians, where the booking/sending off was purely on racist grounds I would also give consideration to. And I mean hard evidence, which is what tends to come out in court, you rarely win a case based on a whim.

 

Remember of course that prior to the arrival of the Lithuanians many players of other nationalities have been employed in a football capacity in Scotland. And many of them have made comment about bias/incompetence in our game, rightly so, this is the first time that outright racism has been brought up.

[Commander Harris]

Nonsense, its not Xenophobic victimisation, its easy targeting agianst Hearts and VR.

 

If any Liths played for any other team they would NOT be targeted like this , therefore its not Xenophobia.

 

Its incompetence and an SFA attitude towards HMFC that is the disgrace. The fact they are Lithuanian has NOTHING to do with it.

 

Its actually a bit cringeworthy that Hearts have come out with this.

Hearts haven't. Liutauras Varanavicius, head of the Lithuanian FA has.

[Dirk Diggler]

 

Its actually a bit cringeworthy that Hearts have come out with this.

 

Hearts haven't come out with anything.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Hearts haven't.

 

OK, well someone connected to the club has.

 

Jeez, picky or what.

[Commander Harris]

OK, well someone connected to the club has.

 

Jeez, picky or what.

it's not picky, it's an important distinction.

 

Liutauras Varanavicius has no role at Hearts.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

OK, well someone connected to the club has.

 

Jeez, picky or what.

 

He's not connected to our club.

[Dr. Bapswent]

it's not picky, it's an important distinction.

 

Liutauras Varanavicius has no role at Hearts.

 

Im aware of that, but for the purposes of the article and how it will be percieved by a wider audience, he is connected in some way, simply by being VR's 'right hand man' and thats what matters.

 

Its a cringeworthy thing to accuse the SFA of.

 

There is no specific Xenophibic victimisation of the Lithuanian players by the SFA. By other teams fans, yes, but not the SFA.

 

There is however a wider victimisation of Hearts by the SFA.

 

To choose to confuse the two sounds petty above reason.

[N User]

Hearts Lithuanians are being targetted though, so it may not be fully xenophobic but it is to a point.

Zaliukas, Ksanavicius, Mikoliunas and Cesnauskis are more likely to be booked than other players in the league (and at Hearts) for similar tackles.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Hearts Lithuanians are being targetted though, so it may not be fully xenophobic but it is to a point.

Zaliukas, Ksanavicius, Mikoliunas and Cesnauskis are more likely to be booked than other players in the league (and at Hearts) for similar tackles.

 

I disagree, I think playing for Hearts increases thier chance of being booked far above thier nationality.

[Victorian]

the usual pointless bickering over a general issue which should really be uniting the fans behind a common cause. unfortunately there is confusion over the causes and effects of the standard and underlying agenda of refereeing. some say there's an anti-lithuanian agenda, some say there's an anti-hearts agenda, some argue that there's no agenda at all and that hearts are suffering as result of previous indiscetions from vlad, miko and some other players.

 

one of the most ridiculous things i saw in the thread is the argument that varanavicius's comments can't be given any credibility because he's a lithuanian. WHAT??? he's a high ranking official in the lithuanian national association and he feels it's necessary to highlight certain things regarding players from his country..... what nationality would one normally expect him to be?

 

is he biased or partial towards a lithuanian agenda? of course he bloody well is.

is gordon smith biased or partial towards a scottish agenda when he goes about his business? of course he bleedin' well is. what else would you expect?

 

it's probably surprising that someone hasn't already spoken about the perceived anti-lithuanian agenda in this country because the perception has been around for quite some time, and therefore it was only a matter of time. it's quite clear that some of the lithuanian contingent at hearts have been discussing this situation between themselves, and possibly with the club hierarchy and LFA. varanavicius holds some kind of position within FIFA so that's got to be good news that we have a 'placeman' within a higher power who is sympathetic towards the plight of a group of our players. he has no particular allegience towards hearts i would have thought and if all the lithuanian players left, i don't suppose he's likely to start looking after the interests of the rest of out players.

 

i don't know if this intervention will end up being all that useful because the more that the problem is known as being anti-lithuanian, the more we paint ourselves into a corner regarding the causes of any unfair treatment our players get. if we somehow manage to nail down and prove an anti-lithuanian feeling amongst referees, what happens when a whole lot of our other players start getting similar treatment?

 

i don't expect this statement to get very much coverage in the scottish press and will be quite quickly forgotten about. maybe for the best.

[Sheriff Fatman]

OK, well someone connected to the club has.

 

Jeez, picky or what.

 

He is the head of the Lithuanian FA and he is talking about players from his country that play for his national team. He has every right, and every responsibility, to comment on the matter, much like Wishart as the head of the players union that they players will be members of has. The one difference is that Wishart has his head so far up the arse of the GFA and the Old Squirm that he wouldn't dare comment as he is too much of a coward. Liutauras Varanavicius is an aquintance of Romanov, but that has the square root of sod all to do with the situation.

[N User]

I disagree, I think playing for Hearts increases thier chance of being booked far above thier nationality.

 

I agree actually, Nade is a prime example of this.

But then on top of that the Lithuanian players are then additionally targeted.

 

VL can only comment on the Lithuanian players and so does this, Hearts are not really of his concern (although i'm sure he does keep tabs on us)

[ToadKiller Dog]

Its not really about xenephopia ,its about the fact that 3 lithuanians have felt that they are being denied the right to freely do a job of work on a level playing field as within there rights and in so think the best option for them to leave .

The SFA have a duty to respond/look into this and Xenephobic tendancies is one of the possibilities that should be looked into and then dismissed if found that it is not relevent .

[Commander Harris]

Im aware of that, but for the purposes of the article and how it will be percieved by a wider audience, he is connected in some way, simply by being VR's 'right hand man' and thats what matters.

 

Its a cringeworthy thing to accuse the SFA of.

 

There is no specific Xenophibic victimisation of the Lithuanian players by the SFA. By other teams fans, yes, but not the SFA.

 

There is however a wider victimisation of Hearts by the SFA.

 

To choose to confuse the two sounds petty above reason.

I agree that Hearts', and the fans, primary focus in all this should be in highlighting the bias that is there against Hearts players in general and the general level of incompetancy with the refereeing in Scotland.

 

I think if the Lithuanian players feel aggrieved, and if the Lithuanian FA wish to comment more specifically on what they perceive as an anti-Lithuanian bias, then they are entitled to do so.

[Dr. Bapswent]

I agree actually, Nade is a prime example of this.

But then on top of that the Lithuanian players are then additionally targeted.

 

VL can only comment on the Lithuanian players and so does this, Hearts are not really of his concern (although i'm sure he does keep tabs on us)

 

I dont actually think Lithuanian players are victimised or targeted, but I do think they make the refs decisions easy, because the opposition crowds support the decisions fully (as would the SFA if it came to a dispute).

 

So althought I dont think they are targeted, refs find it easy to book them as they are supported in making these decisions....basically, they dont find it hard to book them and wont get too much hassle apart form the Hearts fans and players who dont count as the SFA is happy to make HMFC's life as difficutl as possible.

[Dr. Bapswent]

I agree that Hearts', and the fans, primary focus in all this should be in highlighting the bias that is there against Hearts players in general and the general level of incompetancy with the refereeing in Scotland.

 

I think if the Lithuanian players feel aggrieved, and if the Lithuanian FA wish to comment more specifically on what they perceive as an anti-Lithuanian bias, then they are entitled to do so.

 

Sure, but it does nothing to help the club, or players at HMFC.

 

It just makes them look silly and by proxy, the players and therefore HMFC look silly.

 

And as its in the Scottish media, thats the enduring effect.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

I have made this suggestion before and have suggested it before.

 

If the SPL and clubs think there is such an issue with ref's then club together and pay for the services of some of the top european referees, or former referees and pay them to watch SPL games and mark the referees performances.

 

If there is found to be a pattern of incompetence then use the report to get the issues sorted.

 

I dont think the refeereing is brillant, but it isnt as bad or biased as suggested or different from any other country, tbh I expected Brines to downgrade Zali to a yellow but its an incident of opinion and how you see his turning round etc and whilst decisions and actions are open to interpretation there will always be disagreement.

[Victorian]

I agree that Hearts', and the fans, primary focus in all this should be in highlighting the bias that is there against Hearts players in general and the general level of incompetancy with the refereeing in Scotland.

 

I think if the Lithuanian players feel aggrieved, and if the Lithuanian FA wish to comment more specifically on what they perceive as an anti-Lithuanian bias, then they are entitled to do so.

yes that's it. varanavicius is perfectly entitled to represent the interests of the lithuanian players that quite obviously have serious concerns about the treatment they are getting.

 

the problem for us would seem to be that we don't necessarily want the issue to be narrowed down to one of an anti-lithuanian agenda. there seems to be an awful lot more to it than that. varanavicius would be exceeding his remit if he talked about an anti-hearts agenda and is quite right not to comment to that effect.

 

i don't know if the refereeing fraternity or the SFA as a whole are being extremely clever in all of this by muddying the waters over whatever agendas exist, but it seems to me that it's quite possible that there are more than one active agendas in play, whether that be anti-lithuanian, anti-hearts, anti-romanov, etc etc.

 

creating publicity about an anti-lithuanian agenda will not help us if lee wallace, mikey stewart and ruben palazuelos get shafted in the weeks to come.

[269miles]

I'm no lawyer but how would this issue be viewed if taking a legal mentality ? What would be the line to take with the greatest chance of success ?

 

Blackenstein makes a couple of very good points.

 

Under employment law even the SFA has a duty of care - it cannot ignore the complaint : unless perhaps the main protagonists fail to make a personal complaint to the SFA , and it's not clear that they have complained in person.

 

At the very least you would think (did I really say that about the SFA !) the SFA willl call a meeting to hear the complaints. I'd have thought there was an obligaton to do this , if not under law, then to be seen to be acting in a caring & responsible manner. We'll see.

[Mr Quagmire]

Nonsense, its not Xenophobic victimisation, its easy targeting agianst Hearts and VR.

 

If any Liths played for any other team they would NOT be targeted like this , therefore its not Xenophobia.

 

Its incompetence and an SFA attitude towards HMFC that is the disgrace. The fact they are Lithuanian has NOTHING to do with it.

 

Its actually a bit cringeworthy that Hearts have come out with this.

 

In your opinion ?

 

Or is that FACT ?

[Mr Quagmire]

An embarassing statement which just takes away from the issue.

 

Is the refeereing **** poor in this country? yes Is the appeals process a joke ? yes , is it all down to racism, is it hell!!

 

The fact that he is claiming it is racist, and himself admits he hasnt seen the incident just takes away any validity his statement has.

 

It has nothing to do with Racism.

[K1874M]

Its not really about xenephopia ,its about the fact that 3 lithuanians have felt that they are being denied the right to freely do a job of work on a level playing field as within there rights and in so think the best option for them to leave .

The SFA have a duty to respond/look into this and Xenephobic tendancies is one of the possibilities that should be looked into and then dismissed if found that it is not relevent .

 

Good post.

 

Dr B... It makes a big difference that Liutauras isnt employed by hearts.

 

SFA should be concerned that a high up figure of another authority are worried about its nationals getting fair hearings/decisions. They shouldnt have to suffer thru vlads loose tongue... which imo is whats happening.

[269miles]

Im aware of that, but for the purposes of the article and how it will be percieved by a wider audience, he is connected in some way, simply by being VR's 'right hand man' and thats what matters.

 

Its a cringeworthy thing to accuse the SFA of.

 

There is no specific Xenophibic victimisation of the Lithuanian players by the SFA. By other teams fans, yes, but not the SFA.

 

There is however a wider victimisation of Hearts by the SFA.

 

To choose to confuse the two sounds petty above reason.

 

Fair enough , that's your opinion. You can't prove it though*. It should be sufficient for the SFA to feel concrned about the fact that a foreign FA is stepping in behalf of their players because of a perception of bias/xenophobia/whatever.

 

*Although I accept I cannot disprove it.

[Drylaw Hearts]

I know for a FACT that our Lithuanians have been booked for diving and a lot of the times no actual dive took place. But how many times ? Once ? Twice ? Is it more than 10 ?

 

I know for a FACT (well that was my thoughts, but i will play along with your wee deflective game) that a lot of the time our Lithuanian players had to be halved in 2 before the referee would even contemplate giving them a free kick (and that is on a good day). (it's not all about bookings)

 

2 Hibs players weres sent off for offences on Miko and a Falkirk player was sent off for a non-assualt on Velicka.

 

I know for a FACT(as above) that if Scotland were playing the RoI and McGeady took a dive or if we were playing Australia and McDonald took a dive, or if we were playing Morrocco and Zammamma took a dive, that the press would go over the top in the way that they did with Miko.

 

So we're agreed then ?

 

The press hounding of Miko and our other Lithuanians has been nothing short of shocking and they(the press) do have a lot to do with this situation regarding the Lithuanains, as it is their headlines that the referees read, it is their highlighting of the Lithuanians that the refs remember.

 

The Press haa not been a friend to Hearts since someone accused them of being Monkeys.

 

Not too many headlines about Miller, but we had pages of Velicka after the Falkirk game. Not too many of the press sticking up for Zaliukas in this clear cut case...................why?

 

See above.

 

How many times have you heard Richard Gordon call for a player to be kicked out the country?

 

Once. See above above.

 

If you think the Lithuanians have been treated as fairly as everyone else in this country you need to cut back on the lemsips imo.

 

If we are discussing the SFA/Lithuanians then I've yet to see you put forward a single case that makes me change my mind.

 

Night before the derby party to go to, and as my head is liable to be going round in circles with drink, we will stop this thread going round in circles and agree to disagree.

 

Agreed.

 

I think they are harshly treated, you think they are treated equally, fine lets move on to something we can both agree on.

 

Lets stuff those reptile mothers fkrs tomorrow! FTH

 

 

Agreed.

 

[alwaysthereinspirit]

I dont actually think Lithuanian players are victimised or targeted, but I do think they make the refs decisions easy, because the opposition crowds support the decisions fully (as would the SFA if it came to a dispute).

 

So althought I dont think they are targeted, refs find it easy to book them as they are supported in making these decisions....basically, they dont find it hard to book them and wont get too much hassle apart form the Hearts fans and players who dont count as the SFA is happy to make HMFC's life as difficutl as possible.

 

Isn't finding it easy to book them pretty much the same as targetting(sp) them.

[Seats]

If Velicka ever got a run in the rangers team I think we would pretty quickly see that this is an anti-hearts thing and not a xenophobic thing at all.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Good post.

 

Dr B... It makes a big difference that Liutauras isnt employed by hearts.

 

SFA should be concerned that a high up figure of another authority are worried about its nationals getting fair hearings/decisions. They shouldnt have to suffer thru vlads loose tongue... which imo is whats happening.

 

To you and me it might, but not to most of the wider audience who read it.

 

And that enduring attitude, and they way that common perception of the club pervades the general psyche is what is being damaged, and in the long run that can only further damage the image of HMFC, and the attitudes of others towards the club.