Supporters 'chief' in trouble

[munki boy]

John Borthwick is been nothing but a pompous windbag. Nothing that has ever come out of him as "fans chief" has EVER mirrored my views as a fan. The Willie Bauld trust should still have had him charged regardless of the fact he paid the money back. He presumably only paid it back because he got rumbled or was about to be - plain and simple!

 

I only hope he is under an NHS auditing microscope right now!

[speedbump]

With a surname like that, he was never going to come to any good IMO.

 

Indeed;)

[lou]

Arguably, sweeping it all under the carpet may do more damage to the WBMC.

 

They may have made a wrong decision I agree, hopefully it will not affect confidence in the charity too much

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Prancer,

 

Which part of it has been dealt with in house do you not understand.

 

I do not agree with what happened, I do not think it was right to do it, however on repaying the fund and owning up to what he had done the members and commitee of the WBMC SC then took a decision that as far as they were concenred the matter was closed. Why they took that decision is their business, the matter is closed and has got feck all to do with you. However if you are a member of the WBMC and object to the manner in which this business has been dealt then you should raise it through police channels as a private case. If you are not a member then it is none of your business, those whose business it is have decided how it should be dealt with.

 

When it comes to jumped up little feckers you are in a league of your own.

 

 

Theft is a criminal activity, it shouldnt be dealt with in house and those involved shouldnt think they have the right to do that. Why should 5 or however many people on a board be able to decide what is done in regards to the theft of money from many more donors and members.

 

Personally people like you are the exact reason these bodies have such crap memberships, its an old boys club were personal ego and relationships are more important than the actual cause or philosophy of their mission statements or meaning of existance. If WBMC actually wanted to ensure there own reputation it wouldnt have been covered up, as they now look, corrupt, and income will inevitably be damaged due to this.

 

He stole this money, therefore the only appropiate action, is dismissal and a report to the police.

 

The fact he turned round and admitted it and repaid the money will be taken into consideration by the police and court systems when sentencing.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Prancer,

 

Which part of it has been dealt with in house do you not understand.

 

I do not agree with what happened, I do not think it was right to do it, however on repaying the fund and owning up to what he had done the members and commitee of the WBMC SC then took a decision that as far as they were concenred the matter was closed. Why they took that decision is their business, the matter is closed and has got feck all to do with you. However if you are a member of the WBMC and object to the manner in which this business has been dealt with then you should raise it through police channels as a private case. If you are not a member then it is none of your business, those whose business it is have decided how it should be dealt with.

 

When it comes to jumped up little feckers you are in a league of your own.

 

Seems that one person at least didn't think so and leaked it to the papers.

 

I think the whole affair is sad. It's extremely bad news for John Borthwick as I think that in his day-job as an accountant with the NHS, he'll now have some very big problems. Without justifying what did or did not happen, it must be hellish to have been outed in a tabloid newspaper in such a manner.

 

Seems when it comes to women, common-sense goes out the window for a lot of men.

[jambopompey]

Theft is a criminal activity

 

so prancer should we be sending tesco's your photograph to keep an eye on you, since you have admitted on this board that you like the scan and pay kiosks as you can nick from there.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

so prancer should we be sending tesco's your photograph to keep an eye on you, since you have admitted on this board that you like the scan and pay kiosks as you can nick from there.

 

 

I don't actually remember the thread your referring too, however, I can assure you it was sarcasm.

 

Anything to contribute to the topic?

 

I notice how those involved are very quiet, if there actions are correct why do they not have the guts to come on and explain and defend them?

[boabyarsebiscuit]

I don't actually remember the thread your referring too, however, I can assure you it was sarcasm.

 

Anything to contribute to the topic?

 

I notice how those involved are very quiet, if there actions are correct why do they not have the guts to come on and explain and defend them?

Prancer, in no way am I defending the foolish actions of John Borthwick (and I have no doubt he's suffering right now), but I have to ask. If you see a car accident do you stop and look while the ambulances arrive and wait until they clean the blood off the street?

[Gavsy Van Gaverson]

Hopefully this will finally shut this "spokesman" up for good. Nothing more than a common thief.

 

Hopefully, he is told to beat it by HMFC, The Federation and the WBMC.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Prancer, in no way am I defending the foolish actions of John Borthwick (and I have no doubt he's suffering right now), but I have to ask. If you see a car accident do you stop and look while the ambulances arrive and wait until they clean the blood off the street?

 

I can't say I do

 

As for him suffering, so he should, he hasnt suffered the full consequences of his action until he is sacked, prosecuted and ends up with severe difficulties in finding a new role due to being expelled from the professional bodies.

 

This man was trusted with finances and stole - not borrowed - from a charity.

 

He must be punished and it ensured he can never work in a position of authority such as this again, WBMC seem not to have given one jot that he could have just walked down the road and started stealing from another charity.

[blairdin]

I respect the decision by the WBMC to deal with this in house in any way they see fit. I am not a member of this club.

 

However, I would say this.

 

What John Borthwick done was illegal irrespective of whether it was paid back. Obtaining money by deception? There is no excuse for this. He is an accountant with the NHS, he potentially balances books made up of public money, a position of trust, and I personally would have issues if he was allowed to stay in such a job after this sorry affair. So yes, I'll take the moral high ground. He should know better.

 

For years, when there is any big news story coming out of Tynecastle, John Borthwick was always the one who was asked for his view on behalf of Hearts supporters. Not on behalf of WBMC, sometimes even on behalf of the members of a Federation, but many times he was quoted/reported as some sort of Hearts supporters spokesman.

 

I'm just a Hearts supporter who agreed and disagreed with some of what he has said through the years, and I don't think our supporters and club should be tarred with this brush. As a Hearts supporter and a tax payer I don't think resignation from the WBMC and a lifetime ban from Hearts related business is enough - far from it. I feel quite strongly this should be investigated by the relevant authorities.

[portobellojambo1]

Seems that one person at least didn't think so and leaked it to the papers.

 

I think the whole affair is sad. It's extremely bad news for John Borthwick as I think that in his day-job as an accountant with the NHS, he'll now have some very big problems. Without justifying what did or did not happen, it must be hellish to have been outed in a tabloid newspaper in such a manner.

 

Seems when it comes to women, common-sense goes out the window for a lot of men.

 

I am not defending John Borthwick in any way boaby, however what I am willing to do is accept the decision of the members and committee, i.e. that they feel the matter is now closed, and have decided not to push for criminal proceedings. As you mention at least one WBMC member appears to be unhappy, and if said person chooses to refer the matter to the police then fair enough.

 

But when you get non member bawheids like Prancer coming on here and spouting off with regards to how organisations should conduct their business, and what the members should and should not do, feck it, I would rather listen to Ewan Cameron on Real Radio.

 

And the bit I have highlighted above I agree with 1,000%.

[Dougie Masterton]

Just to set the record straight:

 

The WBMC is not a charity, it is a Hearts supporters club affiliated to the Federation of Hearts supporters clubs.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Just to set the record straight:

 

The WBMC is not a charity, it is a Hearts supporters club affiliated to the Federation of Hearts supporters clubs.

 

Dougie, Just to check seeing you seem to know - it's nothing at all to do with Hearts youth development fund thing? thats a different thing right? I'd hate to think I'm giving money to HMFC and someone is off on holiday with it!

[jambopompey]

Anything to contribute to the topic?

 

I notice how those involved are very quiet, if there actions are correct why do they not have the guts to come on and explain and defend them?

 

I will hold my own court on it, and rather than jump the gun and have everyone hung drawn and quartered.

 

From what has been posted i will make a presumption that can be changed if/when new details are given.

 

maybe WBMC has gotten an outside audit done on all the accounts and that everything else has been accounted for, hence why the committee has taken the stance of no further action to be taken. I am basing this on the 6 weeks (according to some folk) that it was done and to it being published.

 

The federation will no doubt have/had a meeting with reguards to this and they will decide their course of action.

 

I am not a member of either so in a way it does not effect me personally, but i will add that it will as others have stated leave doubts on the good work that has been done over the years been soured by one persons mistrust and abuse of the system.

 

Maybe the committee thought it was best not to go public due to the outcry it will cause, look at this thread, was it correct to do so, only in hindsight can you say if it was the correct choice, they may even have opted to go public after an internal/external audit but this story came to the public knowledge before it was finished, so they could state everything as fact.

[Dougie Masterton]

Dougie, Just to check seeing you seem to know - it's nothing at all to do with Hearts youth development fund thing? thats a different thing right? I'd hate to think I'm giving money to HMFC and someone is off on holiday with it!

 

Correct mate, it has nothing to do with HMYD or any other charities.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

I will hold my own court on it, and rather than jump the gun and have everyone hung drawn and quartered.

 

From what has been posted i will make a presumption that can be changed if/when new details are given.

 

maybe WBMC has gotten an outside audit done on all the accounts and that everything else has been accounted for, hence why the committee has taken the stance of no further action to be taken. I am basing this on the 6 weeks (according to some folk) that it was done and to it being published.

 

The federation will no doubt have/had a meeting with reguards to this and they will decide their course of action.

 

I am not a member of either so in a way it does not effect me personally, but i will add that it will as others have stated leave doubts on the good work that has been done over the years been soured by one persons mistrust and abuse of the system.

 

Maybe the committee thought it was best not to go public due to the outcry it will cause, look at this thread, was it correct to do so, only in hindsight can you say if it was the correct choice, they may even have opted to go public after an internal/external audit but this story came to the public knowledge before it was finished, so they could state everything as fact.

 

 

Its a difficult choice but if they honestly thought it wouldnt come out they clearly are naive.

 

Stuff like this always comes out and imo they now look far more corrupt and dodgy than if they had dismissed him, informed the police and released a statement to that affect confirming that an independent review would be taken to ensure no other incidents.

 

At the end of the day I am not blaming them for Borthwick's fraud, but their reaction to it is completely unacceptable.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Just to set the record straight:

 

The WBMC is not a charity, it is a Hearts supporters club affiliated to the Federation of Hearts supporters clubs.

 

 

Are you involved with these bodies DM?

 

If so could you explain ( or anyone else involved with the decisions) the rationale behind the decisions made not to involve police?

[lou]

Are you involved with these bodies DM?

 

If so could you explain ( or anyone else involved with the decisions) the rationale behind the decisions made not to involve police?

 

Yes Dougie please do, as Prancer really really needs to know, (Why is anyones guess)

[Dougie Masterton]

Are you involved with these bodies DM?

 

If so could you explain ( or anyone else involved with the decisions) the rationale behind the decisions made not to involve police?

 

Yes i am, and as it's got feck all to do with you, then no i wont.

[Dr. Bapswent]

Are you involved with these bodies DM?

 

If so could you explain ( or anyone else involved with the decisions) the rationale behind the decisions made not to involve police?

 

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Yes i am, and as it's got feck all to do with you, then no i wont.

 

 

Pathetic

 

The man stole money and your actions look at this stage extremely questionable, these monies came from membership dues and fundraising attempts held in public locations, therefore it has something to do with every member, and anyone else who has at any point donated money.

 

Furthermore given the link to hearts and the fact your organisation regularly claims to represent hearts fans in national media, it reflects on every hearts fan.

 

If the board don't explain why they took this stance, as far as I can see you will lose all credibility and your name, and causes, will be severaly affected as no one will want to donate money to a group who will cover up theft.

 

Bigger charities/funds than you have went bust because of theft and trying to hide it.

[shaun.lawson]

Seems that one person at least didn't think so and leaked it to the papers.

 

I think the whole affair is sad. It's extremely bad news for John Borthwick as I think that in his day-job as an accountant with the NHS, he'll now have some very big problems. Without justifying what did or did not happen, it must be hellish to have been outed in a tabloid newspaper in such a manner.

 

Seems when it comes to women, common-sense goes out the window for a lot of men.

 

Those are exactly my thoughts too - especially your last sentence. It's very, very sad - and much though I deplore what has gone on, I can't say I find the spectacle of one man being ripped apart on an internet messageboard to be at all edifying.

[lou]

Pathetic

 

The man stole money and your actions look at this stage extremely questionable, these monies came from membership dues and fundraising attempts held in public locations, therefore it has something to do with every member, and anyone else who has at any point donated money.

 

Furthermore given the link to hearts and the fact your organisation regularly claims to represent hearts fans in national media, it reflects on every hearts fan.

 

If the board don't explain why they took this stance, as far as I can see you will lose all credibility and your name, and causes, will be severaly affected as no one will want to donate money to a group who will cover up theft.

 

Bigger charities/funds than you have went bust because of theft and trying to hide it.

 

No-one has disputed this but why should they be answerable to posters on an internet messageboard, who are not members and who have not donated?

[lou]

Those are exactly my thoughts too - especially your last sentence. It's very, very sad - and much though I deplore what has gone on, I can't say I find the spectacle of one man being ripped apart on an internet messageboard to be at all edifying.

 

Thats right blame the woman:mad:

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Pathetic

 

Prancer, you are not making a lot of sense, mate. You are associated with none of the organisations "involved". Like most of us you are just a Hearts fan, discussing a Hearts related story on an internet messageboard. A guy made a mistake, has been outed in a national newspaper, has suffered due to having to stop doing what he loves doing in connection with a football club he clearly loves. And is likely going to take another sore one in connection with his day job. He may or may not face legal repercussions, we don't know. If it goes legal, the law will take its course.

 

You seem to be enjoying this too much.

 

I'm not defending John Borthwick. I don't know the guy. He's made a mistake. And he'll have to take the consequences of that mistake, like a man. But you ripping into him like this, on here. You're coming across as someone who is slightly insane. Really. You are.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

No-one has disputed this but why should they be answerable to posters on an internet messageboard, who are not members and who have not donated?

 

 

Do they have the name of every donor and member? if so has everyone been consulted and agreed to the decision made?

 

If so then maybe your and their stance will just about be acceptable, but I am almost sure they havent.

 

Instead the board have decided this and seem to have made no effort to communicate it to those are involved as members or donors.

 

If I am wrong then fair enough, but I would be very keen to hear if any donor, or member (outwith the inner decision making circle) were told anything about this or consulted.

 

If not then they should be releasing statements or explaining in public the actions they took.

 

They were going to be affected whatever action they took, but as it stands now I think that it all looks very corrupt, with them covering up theft.

[WagonWheel]

IF true, seems an awful lot of money to 'borrow' and know 100% you'll be able to pay back.

 

?50 from a mate a few days before payday is one thing, but when it's running into ?000's then at the point of "borrowing" how can you be sure you will be able to pay it back?

[MackaysCentreSpot]

Maybe the committee thought it was best not to go public due to the outcry it will cause, look at this thread, was it correct to do so, only in hindsight can you say if it was the correct choice, they may even have opted to go public after an internal/external audit but this story came to the public knowledge before it was finished, so they could state everything as fact.

 

And there should be a public outcry that someone in his position did this.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

Prancer, you are not making a lot of sense, mate. You are associated with none of the organisations "involved". Like most of us you are just a Hearts fan, discussing a Hearts related story on an internet messageboard. A guy made a mistake, has been outed in a national newspaper, has suffered due to having to stop doing what he loves doing in connection with a football club he clearly loves. And is likely going to take another sore one in connection with his day job. He may or may not face legal repercussions, we don't know. If it goes legal, the law will take its course.

 

You seem to be enjoying this too much.

 

I'm not defending John Borthwick. I don't know the guy. He's made a mistake. And he'll have to take the consequences of that mistake, like a man. But you ripping into him like this, on here. You're coming across as someone who is slightly insane. Really. You are.

 

 

As I said I dont see why you have to be a member to be offended by the theft or subsequent cover up.

 

No I am not enjoying it, I am frankly disturbed that so called "big jambos" would steal from their alleged beloved cause, and others would cover this up.

 

Insane? Really? I personally think that those involved in such bodies are coming over as corrupt.

 

As I have said and explained in detail I think the actions of those involved here are unacceptable and corrupt, I am quite happy to debate these points but I am not going to get involved in petty attacks on myself because you dont agree with my stance, or right to be offended by theft from a fund such as this, and the subsequent cover up.

[Boris]

How would one go about joining the WBMC?

 

Sorry to deviate from the main debate, but a genuine question none the less.

[Rawrrrrrrr]

How would one go about joining the WBMC?

 

Sorry to deviate from the main debate, but a genuine question none the less.

 

 

http://www.williebauldmc.freeserve.co.uk

[lou]

My stance is this should be between these clubs ,their members, JB and the police and not some random poster on a football forum

[Dr. Bapswent]

As I said I dont see why you have to be a member to be offended by the theft or subsequent cover up.

 

No I am not enjoying it, I am frankly disturbed that so called "big jambos" would steal from their alleged beloved cause, and others would cover this up.

 

Insane? Really? I personally think that those involved in such bodies are coming over as corrupt.

 

As I have said and explained in detail I think the actions of those involved here are unacceptable and corrupt, I am quite happy to debate these points but I am not going to get involved in petty attacks on myself because you dont agree with my stance, or right to be offended by theft from a fund such as this, and the subsequent cover up.

 

 

Why?

 

theft is theft.

 

I dont really see why the fact the guy was a jambo and stole from the fund makes any difference.

 

Would it therefore have been more acceptable if he had stole from a different fund?

[Drylaw Hearts]

We should bring hanging back just for this one offence.

[troonjambo]

Yes i am, and as it's got feck all to do with you, then no i wont.

 

well said that man

[boabyarsebiscuit]

As I said I dont see why you have to be a member to be offended by the theft or subsequent cover up.

 

No I am not enjoying it, I am frankly disturbed that so called "big jambos" would steal from their alleged beloved cause, and others would cover this up.

 

Insane? Really? I personally think that those involved in such bodies are coming over as corrupt.

 

As I have said and explained in detail I think the actions of those involved here are unacceptable and corrupt, I am quite happy to debate these points but I am not going to get involved in petty attacks on myself because you dont agree with my stance, or right to be offended by theft from a fund such as this, and the subsequent cover up.

 

Prancer, sorry, it wasn't a "petty attack". Sorry if it came across that way. It's just like you're coming across as this guy, who is SOOOOOOOHHHH ANGRY!!!!! and while what I think what happened is serious and worthy of debate, I just don't understand the way you are jumping up and down so much. You've got your point across. You strongly believe the law should be involved. But demanding people answer your questions. You're just wasting your breath. Why should people answer questions of an anonymous poster in internetland?

[cosanostra]

Sounds like the guy must have been pretty desperate to do what he did.

 

Also, he now has to live with the shame of what he's done. This guy is probably more to be pitied than hated, after all, everyone at Tynecastle and everyone he knows personally is aware of what he's done.

 

Hope he can put it behind him and get on with his life.

[Jamboelite]

Oh sorry is it only members who are allowed to find theft from charities unacceptable?

 

Put it this way, I won't be donating anything to either of them until they act in a proper manner, instead of covering it up.

 

In essence hearts fans and donors gave Borthwick an interest free loan whilst he had financial difficulties, which he granted himself, and the board dont seem to think legal action is necessary.

 

Tbh as I am said I cant see a reasonable explaination for their stance.

 

You really are an irritating

 

At no point has anyone defended him all that was said was perhaps waiting till all info is known before getting the lynch mob out would be a better move and further information was given.

 

How you and a few others take it says more about you than him.

 

Still loved this line tho"Last night brazen Borthwick declined our offer to discuss his theft admission. The bald love-rat also refused to reveal where he had got the money to refund the WBMC - before he jumped into his partner’s car and she sped off. "

[troonjambo]

Prancer, you are not making a lot of sense, mate. You are associated with none of the organisations "involved". Like most of us you are just a Hearts fan, discussing a Hearts related story on an internet messageboard. A guy made a mistake, has been outed in a national newspaper, has suffered due to having to stop doing what he loves doing in connection with a football club he clearly loves. And is likely going to take another sore one in connection with his day job. He may or may not face legal repercussions, we don't know. If it goes legal, the law will take its course.

 

You seem to be enjoying this too much.

 

I'm not defending John Borthwick. I don't know the guy. He's made a mistake. And he'll have to take the consequences of that mistake, like a man. But you ripping into him like this, on here. You're coming across as someone who is slightly insane. Really. You are.

 

i have to agree 100 percent

[shaun.lawson]

Prancer, sorry, it wasn't a "petty attack". Sorry if it came across that way. It's just like you're coming across as this guy, who is SOOOOOOOHHHH ANGRY!!!!! and while what I think what happened is serious and worthy of debate, I just don't understand the way you are jumping up and down so much. You've got your point across. You strongly believe the law should be involved. But demanding people answer your questions. You're just wasting your breath. Why should people answer questions of an anonymous poster in internetland?

 

It's just what Prancer does, BAB. I don't know why - but as I remarked the other day, his purpose in most things on here seems to be to adopt an extreme, relentless position on any particular issue just for the hell of it. He's certainly no fool - it actually takes a fair degree of intelligence to debate things in the way he does - but I tend to roll my eyes on seeing his incursion into threads: even if he makes the odd half-decent point from time to time.

[Tynie b]

Prancer, you are not making a lot of sense, mate. You are associated with none of the organisations "involved". Like most of us you are just a Hearts fan, discussing a Hearts related story on an internet messageboard. A guy made a mistake, has been outed in a national newspaper, has suffered due to having to stop doing what he loves doing in connection with a football club he clearly loves. And is likely going to take another sore one in connection with his day job. He may or may not face legal repercussions, we don't know. If it goes legal, the law will take its course.

 

You seem to be enjoying this too much.

 

I'm not defending John Borthwick. I don't know the guy. He's made a mistake. And he'll have to take the consequences of that mistake, like a man. But you ripping into him like this, on here. You're coming across as someone who is slightly insane. Really. You are.

 

Yip, He's no longer able to "Borrow" Thousands of pounds when he needs another Holiday...How the Fek will he survive??

 

Hopefully the NHS are looking at Dick Turpin as we speak!!

[shaun.lawson]

Sounds like the guy must have been pretty desperate to do what he did.

 

Also, he now has to live with the shame of what he's done. This guy is probably more to be pitied than hated, after all, everyone at Tynecastle and everyone he knows personally is aware of what he's done.

 

Hope he can put it behind him and get on with his life.

 

[H.A.N.S]

Do they have the name of every donor and member? if so has everyone been consulted and agreed to the decision made?

 

If so then maybe your and their stance will just about be acceptable, but I am almost sure they havent.

 

Instead the board have decided this and seem to have made no effort to communicate it to those are involved as members or donors.

 

If I am wrong then fair enough, but I would be very keen to hear if any donor, or member (outwith the inner decision making circle) were told anything about this or consulted.

 

If not then they should be releasing statements or explaining in public the actions they took.

 

They were going to be affected whatever action they took, but as it stands now I think that it all looks very corrupt, with them covering up theft.

 

Wouldn't agree. This decision was made by the men at the top of the WBMC, who are appointed by the ordinary members. As for donations made from people outwith the WBMC - I'd be sceptical to donate anything to a charity/organisation that I don't know much about. For instance, who the money will go to or be looked after by.

 

Also I don't blame the WBMC for doing their best to cover this up. All the people on the board of these types of organisations are generally good mates and often have some sort of "clique". If it was a mate of mine who had done it I'd try and keep it away from the authorities but would still make sure he was punished and ensured he would no longer be given any position of trust in the future.

[boabyarsebiscuit]

Yip, He's no longer able to "Borrow" Thousands of pounds when he needs another Holiday...How the Fek will he survive??

 

Hopefully the NHS are looking at Dick Turpin as we speak!!

 

I'm not defending the guy. What he did was pretty low. He's suffering. Not enough for some people. And if he broke the law he'll have to take the consequences.

 

But to repeat. I am not defending the guy. I just don't feel it's my place to jump up and down on an internet forum and demand that the guy is hung, drawn and quartered.

[MackaysCentreSpot]

Yip, He's no longer able to "Borrow" Thousands of pounds when he needs another Holiday...How the Fek will he survive??

 

Hopefully the NHS are looking at Dick Turpin as we speak!!

 

Look at the facts.

 

A man borrows/steals a vast amount of money from a Club.

 

Same man pays it all back.

 

Man is employed as NHS accountant.

 

I think you can be assured they will be.....with a fine tooth comb.

[cosanostra]

I'm not defending the guy. What he did was pretty low. He's suffering. Not enough for some people. And if he broke the law he'll have to take the consequences.

 

But to repeat. I am not defending the guy. I just don't feel it's my place to jump up and down on an internet forum and demand that the guy is hung, drawn and quartered.

 

That's how I feel as well.

 

Especially when few details are known.

 

The guy must have know he'd be found out when he took the money so he must have been desperate. Desperate people do desperate things I guess. Making a big fuss is not going to help anyone, especially not the charity.

 

Who's going to want to support them now?

 

Best to leave the involved parties to sort it amongst themselves and hope they all move on from this sad incident.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Correct mate, it has nothing to do with HMYD or any other charities.

 

[hmfc_steve]

 

.... it was just resting in my account

[cosanostra]

 

.... it was just resting in my account

 

 

Nice.