Heard yesterday

[Coco]

Having now watched the highlights I confirmed my view at the game that Zaliukas was solely responsible for the loss of the goal. Not sure how anyone could argue otherwise. Zaliukas went for a ball he had no chance of getting, got rolled and was out of the game with Berra left 2 on 1.

 

Great goals from Aguiar and Driver.

 

And a good bit of defending at the end of the game by Neilson, who tucked in and left his man in order to put pressure on Higdon (a player who had been left alone in the box by Zaliukas?).

[Thunderstruck]

I think you're due someone an apology.

 

I wonder if David Blaine's world record for holding ones breath is at risk!!

[Gambo]

Gambo

 

not wanting to pile into your private spat with JR but WTF was Zaliukus doing diving in 15 yards into their half for a ball he was never going to get.

.

 

That has been acknowledged.

 

Berra and Wallace were left with one man to cope with, a man who was marked by Berra, they were then faced with a man running through who imo should have been covered bt Wallace and would have been if Berra had held up the boy on the halfway line instead of running away.

 

This thinking of no-one else has to do there job once Zal has been involved in play astounds me.

 

 

By the time Zal had mucked up on Saturday the situation was still defendable until Berra made the decision to run away from the Falkirk player who had the ball facing his own goal.

[The Mighty Thor]

I think you're due someone an apology.

 

[ATTACH]1370[/ATTACH]

 

I'd be interested to see the frame/still where Zaliukus gets rolled and the positions of the players at that point. ie before it developed into a 2v2

[Gambo]

Having now watched the highlights I confirmed my view at the game that Zaliukas was solely responsible for the loss of the goal yep because after Zal missed it there was no other Hearts player involved and the ball as Zal missed it went directly into the goal. Not sure how anyone could argue otherwise. Zaliukas went for a ball he had no chance of getting, got rolled and was out of the game with Berra left 2 on 1. And Wallace was where? 2v2 .

 

Great goals from Aguiar and Driver.

 

And a good bit of defending at the end of the game by Neilson, who tucked in and left his man in order to put pressure on Higdon (a player who had been left alone in the box by Zaliukas?). No comment on Berra (who never lost a header all day;)) allowing Higdon to miss a sitter near the end? I am shocked:eek:

 

 

Do you believe Berra played a blinder after Zals mistake and defended superbly from that point to their goal?

[magicTs]

Bad defending from BOTH centre halfs but in my opinion the keeper cost us the goal as it was definitely odds against him scoring before he made his rash decision to run out and make it easy. Unfortunately he is an accident waiting to happen and it will cost us.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

I think you're due someone an apology.

 

[ATTACH]1370[/ATTACH]

 

Gambo said "when he received the ball he was in our half facing our goal". And he is in that in your picture, which is taken before he received the ball.

 

But when he received the ball, he was clean through in the middle of our goals.

 

I've just watched it again on TV now. Pretty clear cut. Zaliukas goes for a ball he ain't getting to. He gets turned, leaving Berra with two men to deal with.

 

Berra then has two men to deal with, and decides run back to cover Zals man, and it is him who is played in on goal. When he receives the ball, he is well in our half (almost on the edge of our box in fact).

[Coco]

Do you believe Berra played a blinder after Zals mistake and defended superbly from that point to their goal?

 

I thought at the game that Berra had no chance. Zaliukas mistake, a good pass and well timed run by Lovell was all that counted. Confirmed that after watching it on highlights.

 

As for the Higdon header, where was Zaliukas? Higdon is his man, but Zaliukas is in no-man's land and nowhere near Higdon. Neilson has to tuck in to cover for Zaliukas - another mistake from Zaliukas and a combination of good defending from Neilson/bad miss from Higdon saved us the 2 points.

[Romulus]

the fact that we are sitting nicely in third having won 4 in a row, only conceding one goal makes this arguement worse, you boys are scraping the barrel to find something to moan about. how about give it a rest. ITS BORING.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Having now watched the highlights I confirmed my view at the game that Zaliukas was solely responsible for the loss of the goal. Not sure how anyone could argue otherwise. Zaliukas went for a ball he had no chance of getting, got rolled and was out of the game with Berra left 2 on 1.

 

Same here. Just home from work, watched it on TV, and there is little doubt Zal is to blame. He got turned, leaving Berra to have to try and cover for him again.

 

Simple fact is, as a defender, you should be goal side of your man. If you try to nip in front to steal the ball, you have to get there. Thats why players don't go for a ball like that unless they are CERTAIN they can get there.

 

Zaliukas goes for balls like that all the time, and fails to get their regularly.

 

I find it hard to fathom how anyone could not know what a basic failing that is, but I guess not everyones understands football properly.

[Charlie-Brown]

Berra and Wallace should have stepped out to play Lovell offside.

[Gambo]

I'd be interested to see the frame/still where Zaliukus gets rolled and the positions of the players at that point. ie before it developed into a 2v2

 

 

You don't see too much before but enough to see that Berra was marking (as you would expect) the forward in the middle.

 

Now if you move that frame forward a wee bit , you will see Berra deserting the man he was markingas he gets possession of the ball facing his own goal and allowing that player all the time in the world to play the ball through to the runner who superfast Berra failed to get near to.

An absolute genius piece of defending by Berra according to some.

 

My thoughts are that after Zals mistake (acknowledged) Berra should have stood his ground with the Falkirk player and mad him play it sideways/backwards/or make him beat you, this would have held up play long enough for Wallace to cover the runner and others to get back.

 

Others think it was great that Berra decided to leave his man with the ball and give him all the time in the world to make the pass..........all because Zal had made a mistake before him.

[magicTs]

The keeper is hugely culpable. Made it soooooooooo easy when he should have been back on his 6 yard line. Has looked so uncertain every time I have seen him and the defence has zero communication with him or confidence in him.

 

I think I was right when I said MacDonald wasn't ready but I was wrong in thinking he wasn't the best bet. I hope he gets a chance soon.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

You don't see too much before but enough to see that Berra was marking (as you would expect) the forward in the middle.

 

Now if you move that frame forward a wee bit , you will see Berra deserting the man he was markingas he gets possession of the ball facing his own goal and allowing that player all the time in the world to play the ball through to the runner who superfast Berra failed to get near to.

An absolute genius piece of defending by Berra according to some.

 

My thoughts are that after Zals mistake (acknowledged) Berra should have stood his ground with the Falkirk player and mad him play it sideways/backwards/or make him beat you, this would have held up play long enough for Wallace to cover the runner and others to get back.

 

Others think it was great that Berra decided to leave his man with the ball and give him all the time in the world to make the pass..........all because Zal had made a mistake before him.

 

He was trying to cover the man who Zal had just lost......The man who ran clean through on goal and scored whilst Zal was in the centre contemplating how he'd cost us yet another goal.

 

You say you acknowldege Zal's mistake as a part of that goal? Do you acknowledge it's the same mistake he made against Aberdeen? Do you acknowledge thats two goals in a row, both caused by Zal trying to get to a ball he was never getting to, and not getting there?

[Gambo]

Same here. Just home from work, watched it on TV, and there is little doubt Zal is to blame. He got turned, leaving Berra to have to try and cover for him again. Are you sure......you seemed to have got players mixed up earlier:p

 

Simple fact is, as a defender, you should be goal side of your man.

 

 

Goal side? Does that mean you have to run away from your man to make sure you stay goalside or is it possible that you can jockey the player form a goalside position.?

 

I would have thought that it was simple basic defending that when the man you are marking you try and tackle him/jockey him , not run away from him?

[Gambo]

He was trying to cover the man who Zal had just lost......The man who ran clean through on goal and scored whilst Zal was in the centre contemplating how he'd cost us yet another goal.

 

 

And in the process forget all about the player he was marking WHO HAD THE BALL? A player who more often than not would not have been able to make the pass he did if Berra had stuck with him.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Goal side? Does that mean you have to run away from your man to make sure you stay goalside or is it possible that you can jockey the player form a goalside position.?

 

I would have thought that it was simple basic defending that when the man you are marking you try and tackle him/jockey him , not run away from him?

 

Having watched it again, I'd say if one player has the ball and there is a second runner like that, it's pretty normal to drop off a bit with the runner and hope that others can get back in and deal with the guy on the ball. Berra did little if anything wrong IMO. He was left exposed 2 on 1 by Zals mistake, and a good run and good ball gave him little chance

 

Only option would've been for Berra to clatter through the back of the boy to start with and take a booking.

[The Mighty Thor]

That has been acknowledged.

 

Berra and Wallace were left with one man to cope with, a man who was marked by Berra, they were then faced with a man running through who imo should have been covered bt Wallace and would have been if Berra had held up the boy on the halfway line instead of running away.

 

This thinking of no-one else has to do there job once Zal has been involved in play astounds me.

 

 

By the time Zal had mucked up on Saturday the situation was still defendable until Berra made the decision to run away from the Falkirk player who had the ball facing his own goal.

 

To be brutally honest none of the 4 men involved covered themselves in glory.

 

It was a sequence of really poor decision making.

 

Zaliukus put them all in the merde by diving in when there was really no need to. Berra and Wallace made poor decisions as did Balogh who could have been sent off if he'd mis-timed it any more than he did.

 

If you were coaching that lot you'd be unhappy.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

And in the process forget all about the player he was marking WHO HAD THE BALL? A player who more often than not would not have been able to make the pass he did if Berra had stuck with him.

 

As explained elsewhere, Berra did the right thing backing off IMO. Only other option was to clatter the guy.

 

You say you acknowldege Zal's mistake as a part of that goal? Do you acknowledge it's the same mistake he made against Aberdeen? Do you acknowledge thats two goals in a row, both caused by Zal trying to get to a ball he was never getting to, and not getting there? I trust you're not avoiding these questions because they show up Zal for repeating his mistakes.

[ando]

Having watched it again, I'd say if one player has the ball and there is a second runner like that, it's pretty normal to drop off a bit with the runner and hope that others can get back in and deal with the guy on the ball. Berra did little if anything wrong IMO. He was left exposed 2 on 1 by Zals mistake, and a good run and good ball gave him little chance

 

Only option would've been for Berra to clatter through the back of the boy to with and take a booking

so why didnt he ?

[Gershwin]

Anyone else think it was a foul by Lovell on Zaliukas? Kinda levered him off the ball with his arm.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Having watched it again' date=' I'd say if one player has the ball and there is a second runner like that, it's pretty normal to drop off a bit with the runner and hope that others can get back in and deal with the guy on the ball. Berra did little if anything wrong IMO. He was left exposed 2 on 1 by Zals mistake, and a good run and good ball gave him little chance

 

[b']Only option would've been for Berra to clatter through the back of the boy to with and take a booking[/b]

 

so why didnt he ?

 

How am I supposed to know? I'm just saying it was the only option available to him IMO.

[mitch41]

Berra being sold would not be the end of the world IMO. He is an excellent young player and as long as we cash in (ie get decent money) I would have no problem with him leaving.

 

If this is indeed the plan of the club, I find it ignorant in the extreme that they did not give Rapnik the chance to play when Zaliukas was suspended.

 

we keep the cash........and then what.

 

sell driver.

[The Mighty Thor]

Anyone else think it was a foul by Lovell on Zaliukas? Kinda levered him off the ball with his arm.

 

No. definitely not.

 

Zaliukus tries to reach across Lovell for the ball but he was completely on the wrong side of him. He was never going to get there.

 

A job easily done from lovell's point of view.

[Gambo]

The keeper is hugely culpable. Made it soooooooooo easy when he should have been back on his 6 yard line. Has looked so uncertain every time I have seen him and the defence has zero communication with him or confidence in him.

 

I.

 

I believe Zal shouted on him to come out.

[Gambo]

As explained elsewhere, Berra did the right thing backing off IMO. Only other option was to clatter the guy.

 

 

What about the option to jockey the boy, hold play up, make it hard for him? Out of the options he had, to run away from the man with ball, the man you are marking, and give him the opportunity, an opportunity that would not have been there if Berra was still beside him, to play the pass through was the wrong one on this occassion imo.

 

He was never in a position to get back at the running player, he was in a position to do something about the player with the ball though.

 

 

He made a poor choice (it happens and can happen to Berra to), just like Zal made a poor choice in his tackle.

[magicTs]

I believe Zal shouted on him to come out.

 

I doubt anyone shouted as they seem incapable of communicating properly. It was gung ho nonsense from the keeper which could easily have resulted in him handling outside the box which in hindsight may have been worse than losing the goal. In my mind he will cost us big time in the future should he keep his place.

 

I'm not getting too drawn on the centre halfs. I think they both make mistakes all too often and the defence as a whole could do with an old head to get them organised. For what it's worth I thought Berra played as well as I've seen him this season. Zaliukas is not the worst player by any means, the biggest thing with him is his concentration levels are diabolical and he switches off.

[Gambo]

You say you acknowldege Zal's mistake as a part of that goal? Do you acknowledge it's the same mistake he made against Aberdeen? Do you acknowledge thats two goals in a row, both caused by Zal trying to get to a ball he was never getting to, and not getting there? I trust you're not avoiding these questions because they show up Zal for repeating his mistakes.

 

Always acknowledge Zals mistakes and shortcomings. I do that with most players as we have a hell of a lot of players who make simple mistakes, i do not think there is 1 player who is above critisism (though some on here think there is a player who falls into the no mistakes category).

[Gambo]

To be brutally honest none of the 4 men involved covered themselves in glory.

 

It was a sequence of really poor decision making.

 

Zaliukus put them all in the merde by diving in when there was really no need to. Berra and Wallace made poor decisions as did Balogh who could have been sent off if he'd mis-timed it any more than he did.

 

If you were coaching that lot you'd be unhappy.

 

 

Thank you, just what i have been saying from the beginning. Not ALL down to Zal.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

What about the option to jockey the boy, hold play up, make it hard for him? Out of the options he had, to run away from the man with ball, the man you are marking, and give him the opportunity, an opportunity that would not have been there if Berra was still beside him, to play the pass through was the wrong one on this occassion imo.

 

He was never in a position to get back at the running player, he was in a position to do something about the player with the ball though.

 

 

He made a poor choice (it happens and can happen to Berra to), just like Zal made a poor choice in his tackle.

 

I disagree that was the way to go, but I can at least see where you are coming from. Even if I concede that point for the sake of argument, he's still only made a poor decision when put in a difficult position by Zal's basic error.

 

If it was Zal's first error like that fair enough. But there have been many.

 

The same was said by me about Lee Wallace after he cost us a couple of goals (one at Ibrox). He had to cut out the mistakes, and he has.

 

Zal has had more than enough time to cut out the mistakes IMO, and someone else deserves a shot.

[Charlie-Brown]

I don't think you'd be that unhappy Thor - the back four and the goalkeeper for all they are settling into a new relationship/understanding have only conceded 4 goals in the last 6.5 games so they must be doing somethings right, yes they need to be tighter organised and make better decisions at certain times but as a whole they have tightened up a lot recently as evidenced by the goals against ratio improving.

[magicTs]

I don't think you'd be that unhappy Thor - the back four and the goalkeeper for all they are settling into a new relationship/understanding have only conceded 4 goals in the last 6.5 games so they must be doing somethings right, yes they need to be tighter organised and make better decisions at certain times but as a whole they have tightened up a lot recently as evidenced by the goals against ratio improving.

 

You'll be happy when Neilson starts and Jonsson is on the bench on Saturday then ......................

[Francis Albert]

If this is the kind of forensic examination we can expect every time we lose a goal, I'm glad this was the first lost in well over 300 minutes.

[Gambo]

Gambo said "when he received the ball he was in our half facing our goal". And he is in that in your picture, which is taken before he received the ball.

 

But when he received the ball, he was clean through in the middle of our goals.

 

.

 

Can you show me where i said the highlighted part?

 

'The man Berra was closely marking received the ball on the halfway line facing his own goal!'

That is what i said and what you 'quoted'.

That is what donjuanimations attatched, a picture of Berra and the man about to receive the ball on the halfway line (might not have been exactly on the line but there or there abouts).

[The Mighty Thor]

Thank you, just what i have been saying from the beginning. Not ALL down to Zal.

 

No it's not all down to Zaliukus on this particular occasion.

 

The issue i have with him is the frequency of the basic schoolboy errors and in particular the diving in for balls he's never going to make and the fact that these errors are usually resulting in a goal against us.

You mentioned 'jockeying' in an earlier post. There mustn't be a direct translation into lithuanian as Zal doesn't seem capable of it. It's what prevents him from being a much more accomplished (or even competent) player.

 

We won, we got away with it but we can't afford to give away cheap and stupid goals as we won't always get away with it.

[Gambo]

No it's not all down to Zaliukus on this particular occasion.

 

The issue i have with him is the frequency of the basic schoolboy errors and in particular the diving in for balls he's never going to make and the fact that these errors are usually resulting in a goal against us.

You mentioned 'jockeying' in an earlier post. There mustn't be a direct translation into lithuanian as Zal doesn't seem capable of it. It's what prevents him from being a much more accomplished (or even competent) player.

 

.

 

That is fine, what i don't understand from others though is Zals mistakes in other games means he must be solely responsible for Saturdays goal.

[Charlie-Brown]

You'll be happy when Neilson starts and Jonsson is on the bench on Saturday then ......................

 

Jonsson's best games this season have been in defence and i believe he is better suited to a defensive role in the back line. He's a good kid but the midfield wasn't exactly solid last season with any combination of Eggert, Stewart or Palazeulos in there.

[Juanimator]

I'd be interested to see the frame/still where Zaliukus gets rolled and the positions of the players at that point. ie before it developed into a 2v2

 

This is the closest I could get to Zal being rolled with Berra in the pic . . . hope this helps.

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

I don't think you'd be that unhappy Thor - the back four and the goalkeeper for all they are settling into a new relationship/understanding have only conceded 4 goals in the last 6.5 games so they must be doing somethings right, yes they need to be tighter organised and make better decisions at certain times but as a whole they have tightened up a lot recently as evidenced by the goals against ratio improving.

 

Charlie i have to be honest and say that i really don't think we have that strong a back four (or 5 if you count the keeper) I think we're still very accident prone and i feel we've been getting away with things a wee bit in the last 4 or 5 games. Then again results are results!

 

I've thought for a while that we've needed an old experienced head in there to keep things together (i was brought up on guys like Sandy Jardine marshalling the troops back there) but i'm not so sure if it's coaching or not thats the issue.

[The Mighty Thor]

This is the closest I could get to Zal being rolled with Berra in the pic . . . hope this helps.

 

[ATTACH]1371[/ATTACH]

 

Cheers mate.

 

Berra's tucked right in to the forward in that shot and very much in a good position. In the TV pics Wallace is stretched out a wee bit to the left but in reality the 3 Hearts players should have managed to tidy that situation up.

 

As i said earlier a series of really poor decisions by the players.

[magicTs]

Jonsson's best games this season have been in defence and i believe he is better suited to a defensive role in the back line. He's a good kid but the midfield wasn't exactly solid last season with any combination of Eggert, Stewart or Palazeulos in there.

 

I agree . He should be a first pick at right back instead of you know who. Stewart's indiscipline has opened the door for RN yet again, I just hope that when the midfielders start coming back Jonsson is not sacrificed.

[Gambo]

I disagree that was the way to go, but I can at least see where you are coming from.

 

And i can see why others don't want Zaliukas in the team, what i cant get my head round though is why he has to take sole responsibility/blame for a goal where others also made errors(not just Saturdays), just because he has made errors at other times.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I think we should give the credit to Falkirk for an excellent counter attack and ask questions as to why our defence was so far up the pitch. There was no need for Zaliukas to be in the Falkirk half from what I saw on the highlights.

 

Anyway, we won FFS!

[hmfc_steve]

sequence of events, to me shows zal at fault

[Gambo]

sequence of events, to me shows zal at fault

 

Clearly shows Berra running away from his man who had the ball, allowing the Falkirk player to play the ball through with ease. After running away he is neithermarking his man nor is he anywhere near close to getting near to Lovell.

 

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Jammy T]

I agree . He should be a first pick at right back instead of you know who. Stewart's indiscipline has opened the door for RN yet again, I just hope that when the midfielders start coming back Jonsson is not sacrificed.

 

OK - you agreed with NMH. Now my turn to disagree with you!

 

For whatever reason I dont think it can be denied that Robbie has made a difference since his return.

 

Lets compromise

 

Neilson right back, Jonsson CB with Berra. Even NMH said the defence shouldnt have been changed from the performance he put in there against St Mirren

 

That way we get rid of that big scrote () Zaliukas..... and Jonsson goes back into defence

[sandyseymour]

Having watched it again, I'd say if one player has the ball and there is a second runner like that, it's pretty normal to drop off a bit with the runner and hope that others can get back in and deal with the guy on the ball. Berra did little if anything wrong IMO. He was left exposed 2 on 1 by Zals mistake, and a good run and good ball gave him little chance

 

Only option would've been for Berra to clatter through the back of the boy to start with and take a booking.

 

I'd say if one player has the ball and there is a second runner like that, it's pretty normal to drop off a bit with the runner and hope that others can get back in and deal with the guy on the ball.

 

ehh beg to disagree (again)....defender should leave the runner and close on the player in possesion....placing himself at an agle to restrict the pass to the runner....thus making it one on one....if the player in possession passes to the runner, the runner may have run offside....simple int it !!!

[Pete Seeger]

Nothing wrong with my eyes mate, he contributes nothing.

 

Nonsense. He breaks the play up well, his distrobution is good, even if it is always the easy ball and most importantly, he slips into the back four immediately whenever either of our full backs push forward. He's been a brilliant surprise this season and if we lose him I think he'll be a reall miss.

[Only a Game]

Three stories concerning Hearts I heard in Glasgow last week -

 

1. Kingston is going to WBA in January -player plus cash in return.

 

2. Hearts will sign Chris Burke in Janaury

 

3. Russell Anderson to Hearts in January.

 

1. Players on Premiership wages will not walk from contracts to sign for Hearts

 

2. Injury prone, inconsistent at best, overrated most probably. I'd take him on his good days, of which he has had about 4 in his whole time at Rangers.

 

3.Players on Premiership wages will not walk from contracts to sign for Hearts

[Only a Game]

Have you been running up and down the white line? If Karapidis left now he wouldn't be missed as he does feck all in the over scheme of things. He's as good as a man short.

 

He's been solid as a rock this season. Our most consistent player by a street.

Not a sexy player by any means and his effectiveness is unseen but he does all the Brellier things, only 10 times better than Brellier ever did them