Jambomo Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I think that the first thing we need to do is either to establish some all-encompassing supporters group or encourage the groups we have already to merge together, there appears to be so many potentially different factions (i.e the trust, shareholders, SOH etc) that cannot realistically expect the club to acknowledge and listen to them all. We need to have one representative group at Hearts, and I say this without reference to Romanov as I think we should do this anyway whether we are looking to protest against him or not, one which in all scenarios be prepared to represent the fans of the club and be the voice of the fans so to speak. Something such as that which Charlie-Brown was proposing is a good idea. Once we have that, then you can go start to look at our current position with Romanov, by the time that has happened Csaba will have had much longer in the managers post and we will have a better idea of whather the club has made progress on last years or if we are still stagnant as many of us fear. Then we can do research into what the fans all want with regards to Romanov and take it from there. Shaun & Iain, one thing is that we need ALL of the groups to work together and be united, we can't do that if your point scoring and arguing over the web, it only creats divisions. You both have Hearts interests at heart and need to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 Wise words indeed, Jambomo ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knoxyjambo Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 The problem is that we have a Trust that no one trusts! That's why I think it's a fresh group that needs to be started, with clear aims and a more openness. I've no axe to grind with any of the current groups that are about but it does seem like a lot of b!tching goes on about them. I'm sure there are people within these groups who could be a great help in any new group formed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennantjambo Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I agree about private audiences with His Holiness being a no-no. If the kind of organisation we're talking about happens, and the club wished to meet with representatives democratically elected by the membership, it must be in Edinburgh, and it must be on the proviso that all information can immediately be released to the fanbase. Cloak and dagger secrecy does no good at all; and in any case, it's quite remarkable how many individuals seem to come back appeased after meeting Romanov. It's all a bit Neville Chamberlain, don't you think? On the demo you suggest, I subtly disagree. Demonstrations are divisive, often counter-productive, and attract a lunatic fringe which the press are only to eager to focus their attentions on. But a fans' organisation and movement for change could certainly hold a large scale event along the lines you've mentioned: but the emphasis should be on a celebration of our club, and not anti anything. You are correct, demonstrations can be divisive however a complete boycott and not just a few thousand but everyone including ST holders of one designated home game with fans reps stating the reasons to the press and media, I believe will!, get a reaction from VR. There are massive implications of this type of action and will have maximum impact if this were to happen, and guess what? its a dawdle to organise. previous threats of protests/boycotts have usually got him to at least take notice. He needs the support or he's fecked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Kidd Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I would like to know what any of these groups achieve? In my opinion, it feeds "the better fan than you" syndrome and in the end leaves us in the same position we find ourselves in every year since time immemorial. Unless there is a man who wants to throw money at a club, with a hard core support of about 11,000 and a support of 15,000 when times are good then we are all ****ing against the wind when it comes to Romanov. We are in his hands until A: He dies B: He sells up C: He liquidates us and sells Tynecastle to recoup his money (which at the moment would give him about ?8 million if he's lucky. He stated that Hearts were a club which would try to sell younger players on for profit as we cannot compete with Rangers and Celtic. When the support gets their head round this we can move forward. At present we are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I would like to know what any of these groups achieve? In my opinion, it feeds "the better fan than you" syndrome and in the end leaves us in the same position we find ourselves in every year since time immemorial. Unless there is a man who wants to throw money at a club, with a hard core support of about 11,000 and a support of 15,000 when times are good then we are all ****ing against the wind when it comes to Romanov. We are in his hands until A: He dies B: He sells up C: He liquidates us and sells Tynecastle to recoup his money (which at the moment would give him about ?8 million if he's lucky. He stated that Hearts were a club which would try to sell younger players on for profit as we cannot compete with Rangers and Celtic. When the support gets their head round this we can move forward. At present we are not. The support would love to see younger players such as Gary Glen, Templeton, McGowan, Rapnik and more given their shot. But they aren't. So I'm not sure how Romanov can say on one hand he wants to nurture youth and sell them on when on the other he continues with Audrey? Hopefully one of either Rapnik or McGowan will get a shot now Zaliukas is suspended but I suspect it will be a short one. Nade off, for Mole on, when we have Templeton and Glen as options and could be running with two proper attacking strikers doesn't fit with his supposed youth policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 The support would love to see younger players such as Gary Glen, Templeton, McGowan, Rapnik and more given their shot. But they aren't. So I'm not sure how Romanov can say on one hand he wants to nurture youth and sell them on when on the other he continues with Audrey? Hopefully one of either Rapnik or McGowan will get a shot now Zaliukas is suspended but I suspect it will be a short one. Nade off, for Mole on, when we have Templeton and Glen as options and could be running with two proper attacking strikers doesn't fit with his supposed youth policy. The only part of your post i disagree with is no way on this earth will Rapnik or McGowan get in the starting eleven. It will be Karapidis in for Zaliukus and Ruben into the holding role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I would like to know what any of these groups achieve? In my opinion, it feeds "the better fan than you" syndrome and in the end leaves us in the same position we find ourselves in every year since time immemorial. Unless there is a man who wants to throw money at a club, with a hard core support of about 11,000 and a support of 15,000 when times are good then we are all ****ing against the wind when it comes to Romanov. We are in his hands until A: He dies B: He sells up C: He liquidates us and sells Tynecastle to recoup his money (which at the moment would give him about ?8 million if he's lucky. He stated that Hearts were a club which would try to sell younger players on for profit as we cannot compete with Rangers and Celtic. When the support gets their head round this we can move forward. At present we are not. Wow. That's not even a little bit true. He "stated" Rangers and Celtic were rubbish and we could compete with them by promoting from the academy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 The support would love to see younger players such as Gary Glen, Templeton, McGowan, Rapnik and more given their shot. But they aren't. So I'm not sure how Romanov can say on one hand he wants to nurture youth and sell them on when on the other he continues with Audrey? Hopefully one of either Rapnik or McGowan will get a shot now Zaliukas is suspended but I suspect it will be a short one. Nade off, for Mole on, when we have Templeton and Glen as options and could be running with two proper attacking strikers doesn't fit with his supposed youth policy. I don't really get the protest about playing younger players to be honest. Wallace, Mole, Elliot, Driver, Berra, Glen, MacDonald have all played recently so it's not something I think you can criticise Hearts over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpship Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Think we need to see who comes in when the January transfer window opens . One this will let us see if Vlad is still interested in Hearts and two if he is then hopefully he lets Laszlo bin the dead wood and bring in some quality players . If the players turn out to be rank then Laszlo must go.......... But if no players come in then i think were ****ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Think we need to see who comes in when the January transfer window opens . One this will let us see if Vlad is still interested in Hearts and two if he is then hopefully he lets Laszlo bin the dead wood and bring in some quality players . If the players turn out to be rank then Laszlo must go.......... But if no players come in then i think were ****ed But why wait until January to see.? We all know that some of the squad will be leaving,especially the high earners anyway.Nobody can argue with the fact that we need to start trimming the wage bill a little. What we should be saying is "we accept there has to be costcutting put into place but please don't replace our better players with the usual dross". There are good players who don't cost the earth out there,we just need our scouts to look further than the pyramid to find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 Think we need to see who comes in when the January transfer window opens . One this will let us see if Vlad is still interested in Hearts and two if he is then hopefully he lets Laszlo bin the dead wood and bring in some quality players . If the players turn out to be rank then Laszlo must go.......... But if no players come in then i think were ****ed Again ? Another transfer window ? You are very patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 TBH whatever is started now, we will not be likely to see the effects of if for a few months anyway as it would take some organizing, this allows us to see if Casba really does have anything to bring to the club and what the clubs ideas are. Can we all agree that a united group, which all supporters can be members of and have a say in, which can be the spokepeople for the fans, is a useful thing for us to work towards regardless of Romanov or the situation of the club right now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flecktimus Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 TBH whatever is started now, we will not be likely to see the effects of if for a few months anyway as it would take some organizing, this allows us to see if Casba really does have anything to bring to the club and what the clubs ideas are. Can we all agree that a united group, which all supporters can be members of and have a say in, which can be the spokepeople for the fans, is a useful thing for us to work towards regardless of Romanov or the situation of the club right now? Ill second that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejtee Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Feel like stuck in a time warp. For 40 years the only chairman I liked was Mercer (for part of his tenure). I have seen how much progress Dundee have made since they ditched their mad board. When will people realise that the dream of big success is over, fun while it lasted. No-one is out there who has the resource to improve things. Our owner has lost interest and will try to cut the debts (not entirely a bad thing!) meaning a reduction in player quality (unfortunately). I feel it is very, very unlikely that Vlad does not know already that we are unhappy by the way. When you have a good idea or two let us know but don't lose sight of the fact that one needs to keep things in perspective in terms of how bad things are compared to pre Romanov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Wow. That's not even a little bit true. He "stated" Rangers and Celtic were rubbish and we could compete with them by promoting from the academy. And then he changed his mind:sad: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/7544332.stm "The main goal for Hearts is not winning the league; the main goal is to have young players playing and getting better. "This might be the way for them to go to better teams." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I don't really get the protest about playing younger players to be honest. Wallace, Mole, Elliot, Driver, Berra, Glen, MacDonald have all played recently so it's not something I think you can criticise Hearts over. I think you can. Just because they've played youth in the past doesn't mean you can't criticise them for seemly overlooking a lot of good youth players now when instead we see players past their best or ones who have had too many shots at glory and failed. I could just say "Csaba is woeful at promoting youth" as has he given anyone a chance? Your list came under Frail and those before him. But I don't believe Csaba is running the show anyway, so the fault (imo) lies with those at the top be it Romanov or Korobochka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Again ? Another transfer window ? You are very patient. A line trotted out since the summer of 2006. Lets see what happens next transfer window? Lets give the new coach a chance? Romanov needs time to find the right manager? Tomorrow never comes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmfc1440 Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Are there still people out there that think Vlad cares a jot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic Username Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I look forward to hee-haw coming of this thread. Just like all the other threads of this nature that we've started before. The last time one of these bad boys was created things were EXACTLY the same as they are now. For some to say it's knee jerk is nonsense, that's exactly what it is. You feel like you've been shocked into taking action again but I'd seriously doubt if anything will come to fruition on the back of this thread. We're two points off 3rd place. I'd put money on this thread dropping off the face of the earth if we win the next couple of games. When we start to get humped week in week out or consistently show the same lack of desire and fight that we did against Celtic then I'll start to seriously worry and take an interest in what you guys are saying about letting the powers that be know that we're not happy. Until then I can bide my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Kidd Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 And then he changed his mind:sad: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/7544332.stm "The main goal for Hearts is not winning the league; the main goal is to have young players playing and getting better. "This might be the way for them to go to better teams." Thanks for doing my digging for me. This gig is over. We will all have to get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fabuloso Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 All this talk about doing something and where to start......apologies if this has been done but has there been a survey of fans views? This is surely the basis for any discussion. Whether it be on-line or handed out on match-day (or both) this must be a logical first step. The survey can then be officially distributed to the media, fans, and of course Hearts. In true survey style a simple multiple choice over a series of salient questions would do the trick. Don't get me wrong a simple survey won't force VR to throw in the towel however it's a start. Just a thought - no doubt it has been suggested/done before- maybe someone can advise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 iainmac - do you want to be part of a movement such as we are discussing ? No thank you - but good luck with it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoslados Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Shaun, Why don't you start a Hearts Membership scheme like they have at Ajax, Schalke, Barca & umpteen other clubs......that way it doesn't have to be for or against anything or anybody at this stage it just has to be FOR Hearts & Hearts supporters - if ownership of the club isn't a realistic prospect in the short term it's not even as if you are trying to usurp the HoMST .... I proposed a supporters 'union' for want of a better word a few months back which could encompass all the other groups FF, Trust, Federation, SAH etc if they were willing to join but it wouldn't detract from these other organisations right or purpose for existing - they all represent their membership .... anyway I digress - the Hearts membership could exist for decades beyond any club owner or manager etc just as they do at other clubs. Charlie/Shaun?Ian et al. Dougie Masterton and I put together an interim proposal when we were active in the Trust board which was circulated to all the organisations and on this message board. Must be about 2 years ago. The basic premise was to unite together under the banner of the Hearts Supporters Association and include season ticket holders. We were quite enthusiastic about it at the time as it would be more representative of the wider fan base but unfortunately it was met with a mix of indifference, outright hostility and a what is the point reaction. I am reading the posts with great interest as I think there is clearly an enthusiasm for doing something ...but it has to be positive. The SOH campaign had a clear purpose to stop something ( in our opinion) happening which in its way it did. The environment and background in which we find ourselves is very different but it shouldn't stop people who are prepared to put the effort and time (a lot of it) to create something that would be a long lasting and powerful legacy for the Hearts fans...despite the present regime. Sorry I can't reply to any posts as I am on my way out to shuffle about at 5 a side. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I haven't had a chance to read through the whole thread, but what always strikes me about these type of threads is that they never happen when the team is winning. If we'd won on Sunday, this simply wouldn't exist. At the end of the day, we remain 2 points off a UEFA cup position in the SPL, with a run of easier games coming up, the time to panic is if nothing comes of these. A united fans group would be a fantastic idea if realised and I honestly don't understand the hostility to this whenever it is suggested. Perhaps there are too many snouts in the trough? Perhaps for this to work there needs to be a cull of the heads of all of these organisations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I haven't had a chance to read through the whole thread, but what always strikes me about these type of threads is that they never happen when the team is winning. If we'd won on Sunday, this simply wouldn't exist. At the end of the day, we remain 2 points off a UEFA cup position in the SPL, with a run of easier games coming up, the time to panic is if nothing comes of these. A united fans group would be a fantastic idea if realised and I honestly don't understand the hostility to this whenever it is suggested. Perhaps there are too many snouts in the trough? Perhaps for this to work there needs to be a cull of the heads of all of these organisations? I think you may find Martin that the teams you refer to as easier games will be looking at us in the exact same light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I think you may find Martin that the teams you refer to as easier games will be looking at us in the exact same light. If we play like we did against Celtic then absolutely they will do. I don't think any of those teams will fancy playing against the Hearts team that dominated long spells of the games against Aberdeen and Hibs. Even the game against Celtic was no worse than games we've played against them at Tynecastle in the past. I remember one game under Levein when we were 4 goals down at half time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Freewheelin' Jambo Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 If we play like we did against Celtic then absolutely they will do. I don't think any of those teams will fancy playing against the Hearts team that dominated long spells of the games against Aberdeen and Hibs. Even the game against Celtic was no worse than games we've played against them at Tynecastle in the past. I remember one game under Levein when we were 4 goals down at half time. None of his players were on ?15k a week though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 If we play like we did against Celtic then absolutely they will do. I don't think any of those teams will fancy playing against the Hearts team that dominated long spells of the games against Aberdeen and Hibs. Even the game against Celtic was no worse than games we've played against them at Tynecastle in the past. I remember one game under Levein when we were 4 goals down at half time. If we could play like we did against Hibs(first 10 mins excepted)every week and have a poacher,we could be battling Rangers and Celtic for top 2 imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 None of his players were on ?15k a week though. Stamp was reportedly on around 8k a week though. Sunday's performance was gutless and hugely dissapointing, but at the end of the day it's down to how the players respond I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmiyaRomanova Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 None of his players were on ?15k a week though. Genuine question. Who in the current squad is on ?15k a week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Freewheelin' Jambo Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Genuine question. Who in the current squad is on ?15k a week? Laryea Kingston... Been away for a while? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmiyaRomanova Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Laryea Kingston... Been away for a while? Can you source that? Sure I recall reading somewhere (probably here) that he was on ?6k or ?7k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Can you source that? Sure I recall reading somewhere (probably here) that he was on ?6k or ?7k. Majority report he's on ?15k, nobody knows for sure but that's mainly what's said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmiyaRomanova Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Majority report he's on ?15k, nobody knows for sure but that's mainly what's said. Fair enough. We don't know. I'd wager that the cost of our squad this season is significantly less than it was a couple of years ago though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Fair enough. We don't know. I'd wager that the cost of our squad this season is significantly less than it was a couple of years ago though. And I'd wager it's a lot pisher than it was a couple of years ago too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 And I'd wager it's a lot pisher than it was a couple of years ago too So, if there was an SPL squad quality league...in which position would you put us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 So, if there was an SPL squad quality league...in which position would you put us? 8th. Strange eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 So, if there was an SPL squad quality league...in which position would you put us? Impossible to say. It's broadly irrelevant though. The evidence of the last fifteen months is that the most consistent, best managed and most reliable teams outside the OF are Dundee United and Motherwell, with Hearts in the morass below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 Majority report he's on ?15k, nobody knows for sure but that's mainly what's said. There was originally some confusion whether it was ?15k or €15k - but hey - there's not much difference these days ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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