So what are we prepared to do about the state of our club ?

[letsalllaughathobos]

Yes and as Jambovambo says elsewhere, make it uncomfortable for Vlad and his cohorts. Make it public, make it in their faces and let's push Vlad to see what happens.

 

I seriously cannot believe that standing up and being counted will cause any more damage than Vlad is doing.

tottaly agree with you i think we must have a wee dig at mr romanov and see what he comes back with then take it from there.

i'm fully supportive of any type of action(as long as properly orginized).

[djf]

I agree with Iain. These sort of threads just take advantage of heightened emotions on an anonymous medium and the reactions are no suprise. If there was serious support for actually getting the finger out and doing something we would have seen it happen long before now. I mean, does Vlad even interfere in team selections anymore? As far as I can see, recent teams have been fairly consistent with the majority of selections fairly self explanatory.

 

Shaun's group seems like a good idea. A chance for the huge divisions between the heirachy and the fans to hopefully be closed together somewhat. When it comes to actual protest against VR however, the lines seem far too blurred for any sort of serious action.

 

Take for example this thread. Drylaw Hibee wants Romanov out. SL doesn't. Yet they have both posted in support of action. So even the sub-divisions of the forum have sub-divisions.

[Kilmacolm Jambo]

If only the Hearts fans could show as much passion in their hatred of Romanov and the need for change as they do with Celtic and their fans, we would be in a much stronger position.

 

I am not condoning Celtic fans at all, I despise them, but a lot of Hearts fans put more effort into yesterday than they do to fight for the club we love!

 

[iainmac]

Just the way your posts are coming across to me.

 

Oh, OK then - thanks for explaining that!

[Dunks]

Many.

 

Make things unpleasant for him as custodian of our club.

 

Embarrass him in his own back yard.

 

Publicity, publicity, publicity.

 

To achieve what exactly? The end of the club?

[Nookie Bear]

To achieve what exactly? The end of the club?

 

What's with the :hobofish:nonsense? Why not try and argue your point like a man?

 

Go and explain to us all why putting pressure on Vlad, showing him we are unhappy and trying to force some sort of change is going to kill our club.

 

And if Vlad pulls the plug because of one protest then he is the sort of guy that would pull the plug eventually anyway.

[shaun.lawson]

I'm afraid to get the fans on side you really do need to lay out what you want to achieve and what the alternative is.

 

As far as I can see there are 2 possible objectives.

 

Option 1: Get Romanov to change his management style.

Do you have any reason to believe this is going to happen? I can't see it. Even if it did, would anyone believe it if we were not challenging for the league?

 

Option 2: Get Romanov to sell.

This is more complicated. Obviously you need a willing seller and a willing buyer. I think it is possible that Romanov might sell if the finances are right. I can't see Romanov selling Hearts without being relieved of the debt. I can't see anyone buying the club and either clearing the debt or finding a bank willing to take it on. The only way for a new buyer to come into the club I believe is to sell the ground.

 

I laid out a possible path a year or so back to see if anyone would either agree with it or propose a realistic alternative. Safe to say I didn't get either. Anyway steps were basically:

1. The fans group to jointly oppose the building of the new stand. IT will put our finances beyond the point of no return.

2. Find someone respected in the business world (at the time I said Foulkes, but I'm no longer sure he'd be right) to quietly approach Romanov and ask if he would be willing to sell if a buyer could be found.

3. Fans groups to publicly state that they would support a new buyer selling the ground if there was a new owner with a clear plan for the future.

4. Respected businessman to very quietly search for new buyers.

5. Respected businessman to approach council to see if they would be willing to consider a joint ground development.

This has all become harder to make the sums add up due to falling land prices and potential buyers will be thin on the ground, but might still work.

 

So I ask, would you be happy to support the sale of Tynecastle or can you set out a viable alternative?

 

I agree with the steps you've laid out, SJ. In terms of a viable alternative, it depends: we don't have one yet, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do our utmost to search for one along precisely the lines you've suggested. And in terms of selling Tynecastle, again, it depends: on what the alternative we had involved.

 

As long as said alternative remains hypothetical, it's impossible - and foolish - to rule anything in or anything out. For example: if we went into administration, we don't 100% know that we'd lose Tynie - because it could be that a buyer, who'd been waiting to get us when the price was low, came in and guaranteed it. We just don't know. If we found a viable, real alternative which the fans coalesced around, then the objective would become to get Romanov to sell - but as things stand, I think our best bet is not to protest against him, but organise, stage events and develop a movement pushing for real change.

[Louise]

The problem with voting with your feet is that unless a substantial amount of the fans do this, it doesn't make the slightest impact, and in this case I for one resent missing the opportunity to get behind my club.

There will be no change without organisation, but where it will come from is beyond me.

[shaun.lawson]

Come on now, it was a meeting of an organisation called CHARM, wasn't it? You must have discussed some kind of battle plans / strategy surely? The reason I ask this is quite simple - a couple of months down the line and you're lobbying for support again.

 

Support for what, I'm not really sure but did you come all the way from Norwich to Edinburgh for "a chat down the pub"?

 

If you think back to July, Iain, the CHARM threads, your meeting with the SOH guys and your and Dougie's meeting with the club happened at a time when we still didn't have a manager. That was the one thing pretty much all fans could unite upon. Then we appointed a manager, and the debt for equity exercise happened: taking the heat right out of the situation, and reassuring you, Dougie and (I assume) the others in SOH. And from our point of view, the main thing we'd been calling for had been resolved too: for the time being at least.

 

So what we decided to do was meet up for an informal chat, and discuss various scenarios and things to be prepared for. It really was very informal though. The momentum went out of what we were doing over the following few weeks, mainly because things appeared to have stabilised - but now, a lot of the concerns we had back in July are probably subordinate to others to do with UBIG's finances and Romanov's commitment to the club. So we've started discussing things and organising again, and I've written what I have today not to 'lobby for support', but test the water: find out what other Jambos would think of a united fans organisation and a movement aimed at getting our club back.

 

You yourself know the importance of not acting hastily. This has required a lot of thought, and a lot of discussion: it's a very complicated situation. We're now coming to an agreement about what we (CHARM, or what was CHARM, I mean) propose to do - but we have to take many fans with us, which is why I've posted as I have. As soon as we're able to set out exactly what all our aims are, you'll all know; but equally, it'd have been deeply unwise to set out a bunch of random, hazy suggestions at any point over the last three months. Why do you think no-one's acted over the last couple of years, Iain? It's because it's bloody complicated - but that should no longer be an excuse for paralysis.

[iainmac]

. Why do you think no-one's acted over the last couple of years, Iain? It's because it's bloody complicated - but that should no longer be an excuse for paralysis.

 

Simple - they think posting on threads such as these is them 'doing their bit'.

 

What exactly has brought you back into protest mode then? Is it the fact that the team aren't doing particularly well or are you worried about the 'big exclusive' hitting the streets that you assured me was imminent 2 weeks ago?

 

Round about the same time we were going into Administration...........

[shaun.lawson]

In post #38 he appears to have a thinly-veiled dig at me, Gary Mackay, John Borthwick and Stevie Kilgour - as well as George Foulkes and Leslie Deans.

 

He also stated that "Cloak and dagger secrecy does no good at all;" but yet there has been at least one meeting of CHARM but doesn't see the need to tell anyone what went on as it was "just a chat down the pub".

 

Personally, I get a bit tired of these 'let's do something about Romanov' threads. If there was a genuine, organised groundswell of people prepared to actually do something - it would have happened long before now IMO.

 

Nuh-uh. People have to be organised and see what the purpose of something is before they do something! So naturally, given how complicated the club's situation has been over recent years, nothing's happened: but there are a heck of a lot of people out there just waiting for something to get started.

 

And no, what I wrote was not a dig at you: not a bit of it. Good grief, I've acknowledged my own responsibility for this: when he appeared on the scene, and for a while afterwards, I was taken in by Vlad as well! So we're even: 99% of the fanbase are even, indeed. Quite why you've chosen to take it as something it wasn't, I have no idea.

 

Which brings me to this question. We all know the role you played in getting rid of Robinson; we're also all more than aware of how difficult our position is now. What is your personal position on Romanov - and hand on heart, can you honestly see this club progressing with him in charge?

[Drylaw Hearts]

I agree with Iain. These sort of threads just take advantage of heightened emotions on an anonymous medium and the reactions are no suprise. If there was serious support for actually getting the finger out and doing something we would have seen it happen long before now. I mean, does Vlad even interfere in team selections anymore? As far as I can see, recent teams have been fairly consistent with the majority of selections fairly self explanatory.

 

Shaun's group seems like a good idea. A chance for the huge divisions between the heirachy and the fans to hopefully be closed together somewhat. When it comes to actual protest against VR however, the lines seem far too blurred for any sort of serious action.

 

Take for example this thread. Drylaw Hibee wants Romanov out. SL doesn't. Yet they have both posted in support of action. So even the sub-divisions of the forum have sub-divisions.

 

Now that's funny.

[iainmac]

Nuh-uh. People have to be organised and see what the purpose of something is before they do something! So naturally, given how complicated the club's situation has been over recent years, nothing's happened: but there are a heck of a lot of people out there just waiting for something to get started.

 

And no, what I wrote was not a dig at you: not a bit of it. Good grief, I've acknowledged my own responsibility for this: when he appeared on the scene, and for a while afterwards, I was taken in by Vlad as well! So we're even: 99% of the fanbase are even, indeed. Quite why you've chosen to take it as something it wasn't, I have no idea.

 

Which brings me to this question. We all know the role you played in getting rid of Robinson; we're also all more than aware of how difficult our position is now. What is your personal position on Romanov - and hand on heart, can you honestly see this club progressing with him in charge?

 

So, who exactly were you having a dig at then when you posted this, as I don't believe you have had an audience with the 'His Holiness' so to say that you too were taken in is a bit disingenuous.

 

I agree about private audiences with His Holiness being a no-no. If the kind of organisation we're talking about happens, and the club wished to meet with representatives democratically elected by the membership, it must be in Edinburgh, and it must be on the proviso that all information can immediately be released to the fanbase. Cloak and dagger secrecy does no good at all; and in any case, it's quite remarkable how many individuals seem to come back appeased after meeting Romanov. It's all a bit Neville Chamberlain, don't you think?

[Dr. Bapswent]

Is it just me or do some people seem to get a hard on when they get an opportunity to rock the boat a little?

[shaun.lawson]

Simple - they think posting on threads such as these is them 'doing their bit'.

 

What exactly has brought you back into protest mode then? Is it the fact that the team aren't doing particularly well or are you worried about the 'big exclusive' hitting the streets that you assured me was imminent 2 weeks ago?

 

Round about the same time we were going into Administration...........

 

Why do you describe it as 'protest' mode? It's concerned mode: deeply concerned mode. Concerned about things on the park, concerned about the disenchantment felt by more and more fans, concerned about the sense that under Romanov, no manager's going to be able to make much of a difference, concerned about the lack of signings and prospect of a firesale in January, concerned about the sense that Hearts under Romanov increasingly resembles a living death; concerned, above all, about the club's health off the pitch.

 

There is no way, Iain, no way at all, that literally all the stories we've heard about our cashflow and failure to pay creditors are false. A good number of them are, certainly; many emanating from fevered imaginations in Leith. But not all of them. The den mothers? Mark Donaldson? Various companies taking us to court for small amounts? Ernst and Young becoming involved? The wages fiasco? Moody's downgrading Ukio, again? The credit crunch impacting on the Baltic states?

 

There is no doubt in my mind at all that something is seriously wrong behind the scenes. Which leaves us with a choice: either we sit back, and wait for unadulterated proof, which might well not arrive until it's already happened - or we get moving and get prepared. I know which option I favour, and would refer you to Stuart Bathgate's comments in post 21 for his thoughts too.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Is it just me or do some people seem to get a hard on when they get an opportunity to rock the boat a little?

 

It's just you.

[Ivan Drago]

Is it just me or do some people seem to get a hard on when they get an opportunity to rock the boat a little?

 

Is it just me or do some people seem to get a hard on when they get the opportunity to rock the boat a little by defending the current situation?

[shaun.lawson]

So, who exactly were you having a dig at then when you posted this, as I don't believe you have had an audience with the 'His Holiness' so to say that you too were taken in is a bit disingenuous.

 

It was a dig at everyone who's been taken in by him, myself included. No, I've never met him: I should still have known better though. The bit about Neville Chamberlain referred to, frankly, how weak we've all been so far, and how gratified we've invariably been by little reassurances. Your colleague Dougie actually wrote 'Believe!' after you guys met with people from the club three months ago: I hope this was meant tongue in cheek, but if not, it's no big deal. It's symptomatic of how we've all reacted: no-one is any more or less culpable than anyone else.

 

Meanwhile, you still haven't answered my question. What is your personal position on Romanov - and hand on heart, can you honestly see this club progressing with him in charge?

[iainmac]

The den mothers? Mark Donaldson? Various companies taking us to court for small amounts? Ernst and Young becoming involved? The wages fiasco? Moody's downgrading Ukio, again? The credit crunch impacting on the Baltic states?

 

 

A quick question - have the players and staff been paid regularly since the 'wages fiasco'?

 

As for 'den mothers' and MD, if they're not getting paid, they should either withdraw their labour and / or take a case to the Small Claims Court.

 

Is Mark still broadcasting on HW?

 

I think you must have been getting fed some amount of bollocks when you had your holiday across the city.

[The Real Maroonblood]

Is it just me or do some people seem to get a hard on when they get an opportunity to rock the boat a little?

 

The boat is sinking so rocking it a little will not make one bit of difference.

[iainmac]

It was a dig at everyone who's been taken in by him, myself included. No, I've never met him: I should still have known better though. The bit about Neville Chamberlain referred to, frankly, how weak we've all been so far, and how gratified we've invariably been by little reassurances. Your colleague Dougie actually wrote 'Believe!' after you guys met with people from the club three months ago: I hope this was meant tongue in cheek, but if not, it's no big deal. It's symptomatic of how we've all reacted: no-one is any more or less culpable than anyone else.

 

Meanwhile, you still haven't answered my question. What is your personal position on Romanov - and hand on heart, can you honestly see this club progressing with him in charge?

 

Maybe Dougie meant 'Believe' what the club told us at the time - D4E swap and imminent manager appointment?

 

If you give me an alternative to VR and guarantee me that HMFC will still survive, I'll then give you my position. My personal position doesn't make a jot of difference to what you want to do (whatever that is - still not sure) but the fact that the SOH guys met to consider our next steps should tell you something.

[shaun.lawson]

A quick question - have the players and staff been paid regularly since the 'wages fiasco'?

 

As for 'den mothers' and MD, if they're not getting paid, they should either withdraw their labour and / or take a case to the Small Claims Court.

 

Is Mark still broadcasting on HW?

 

I think you must have been getting fed some amount of bollocks when you had your holiday across the city.

 

You can keep persuading yourself all is well, Iain: it's only human nature. But no way on earth is it all well. Ever wondered why Vlad plays such little role nowadays? It couldn't be because his own business is in trouble, could it? But hey, don't ask me: ask Moody's. Ask Standard and Poors. Ask Oleg Deripaska. Ask UBIG about their veritable triumph with Bosnian aluminium, or continued failure to develop Ripo's stadium. Sound familiar, anyone?

[iainmac]

You can keep persuading yourself all is well, Iain: it's only human nature. But no way on earth is it all well. Ever wondered why Vlad plays such little role nowadays? It couldn't be because his own business is in trouble, could it? But hey, don't ask me: ask Moody's. Ask Standard and Poors. Ask Oleg Deripaska. Ask UBIG about their veritable triumph with Bosnian aluminium, or continued failure to develop Ripo's stadium. Sound familiar, anyone?

 

I'm not persuading myself anything - I go with the evidence, not the speculative garbage that surfaces on here / hobos.net every other day.

 

Lots of businesses are having cashflow problems right now - there is no doubt about it. You seem to be more interested in balance sheets than what's happening on the pitch. Sound familiar, anyone?

[Drylaw Hearts]

Maybe Dougie meant 'Believe' what the club told us at the time - D4E swap and imminent manager appointment?

 

If you give me an alternative to VR and guarantee me that HMFC will still survive, I'll then give you my position. My personal position doesn't make a jot of difference to what you want to do (whatever that is - still not sure) but the fact that the SOH guys met to consider our next steps should tell you something.

 

A bit of a kop-out Iain.

 

I don't understand why you're so reluctant to give your opinion on VR and the current state of the Club.

[iainmac]

A bit of a kop-out Iain.

 

I don't understand why you're so reluctant to give your opinion on VR and the current state of the Club.

 

Read the next line, Hibby!

[shaun.lawson]

Maybe Dougie meant 'Believe' what the club told us at the time - D4E swap and imminent manager appointment?

 

If you give me an alternative to VR and guarantee me that HMFC will still survive, I'll then give you my position. My personal position doesn't make a jot of difference to what you want to do (whatever that is - still not sure) but the fact that the SOH guys met to consider our next steps should tell you something.

 

I can't, as you know. The trouble is, I think we've reached a point whereby what we currently are under the status quo just isn't worth it: a living death, as I've already said. And the problem with your position is, if an alternative was never found, it gives Vlad carte blanche to do whatever he wants, doesn't it? At what point would you change your stance? Relegation? Three successive bottom six finishes? Or what?

[shaun.lawson]

I'm not persuading myself anything - I go with the evidence, not the speculative garbage that surfaces on here / hobos.net every other day.

 

Lots of businesses are having cashflow problems right now - there is no doubt about it. You seem to be more interested in balance sheets than what's happening on the pitch. Sound familiar, anyone?

 

If our balance sheets go completely belly up, there won't be anything happening on the pitch!

[iainmac]

I can't, as you know. The trouble is, I think we've reached a point whereby what we currently are under the status quo just isn't worth it: a living death, as I've already said. And the problem with your position is, if an alternative was never found, it gives Vlad carte blanche to do whatever he wants, doesn't it? At what point would you change your stance? Relegation? Three successive bottom six finishes? Or what?

 

My stance on what, exactly?

 

Unlike you, I've been through relegation - we survived it. Vlad has always had de facto carte-blanche with this club since the day he came in. Didn't seem to worry too many people when we were doing well.

[iainmac]

If our balance sheets go completely belly up, there won't be anything happening on the pitch!

 

...and there we have it!!

[shaun.lawson]

A bit of a kop-out Iain.

 

I don't understand why you're so reluctant to give your opinion on VR and the current state of the Club.

 

I can't either. Iain, I have to be honest here: something has always worried me. When the CHARM threads were ongoing, the most hostility we encountered was from people who'd been heavily involved with SOH. Not you or Dougie, I hasten to add; but certainly others. SOH did a fantastic job in helping get rid of Robinson - but the follow-up was the arrival of Vlad. Could it be that those involved feel so invested in Romanov, and are so alarmed by the prospect of admitting they'd been wrong about him, that they'll be the very last to turn against him? Certainly, it's noticeable how staunchly pro-Romanov many SOH figures seem to be: how come?

[Drylaw Hearts]

Read the next line, Hibby!

 

That is a classic !!!!!

 

 

 

Anyway....

 

As you and the SOH guys met there was obviously a concern at that time - has the outlook changed ?

[shaun.lawson]

My stance on what, exactly?

 

Unlike you, I've been through relegation - we survived it. Vlad has always had de facto carte-blanche with this club since the day he came in. Didn't seem to worry too many people when we were doing well.

 

Wow. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that reads to me awfully like "if there was no viable alternative available, I'd stay behind Romanov, even if we were relegated".

 

Wow, again.

[iainmac]

Wow. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that reads to me awfully like "if there was no viable alternative available, I'd stay behind Romanov, even if we were relegated".

 

Wow, again.

 

When did I say I was behind Romanov?

 

If we were relegated (again), I'd stay behind Heart of Midlothian as I did before..

[Francis Albert]

I can't, as you know. The trouble is, I think we've reached a point whereby what we currently are under the status quo just isn't worth it: a living death, as I've already said. And the problem with your position is, if an alternative was never found, it gives Vlad carte blanche to do whatever he wants, doesn't it? At what point would you change your stance? Relegation? Three successive bottom six finishes? Or what?

 

"A living death"? I thought you'd backed off the drama queen stuff after your recent embarrassment.

[shaun.lawson]

"A living death"? I thought you'd backed off the drama queen stuff after your recent embarrassment.

 

OK, let me put it this way. How long do you think this situation can continue? Another year? Another five years?

[shaun.lawson]

When did I say I was behind Romanov?

 

If we were relegated (again), I'd stay behind Heart of Midlothian as I did before..

 

If we were relegated, what would you do about the owner of Heart of Midlothian, and would you want real change?

[iainmac]

That is a classic !!!!!

 

 

 

Anyway....

 

As you and the SOH guys met there was obviously a concern at that time - has the outlook changed ?

 

We had a plan, we put it into action - it's a concept alien to some people on here, I know. If the first phase hadn't went the way we had hoped, we would have moved into the next phase - we wouldn't have just talked about it though!

[davemclaren]

OK, let me put it this way. How long do you think this situation can continue? Another year? Another five years?

 

I think it will last as long as VR wants it or can afford it. Efforts should be made to look for viable alternatives to him but I fear there are none.

[Drylaw Hearts]

We had a plan, we put it into action - it's a concept alien to some people on here, I know. If the first phase hadn't went the way we had hoped, we would have moved into the next phase - we wouldn't have just talked about it though!

 

So are SOH happy/comfortable with the current state of Club ?

 

Is there another meeting planned ?

[Mr Romanov Saviour of HMFC]

This thread has taken a turn for the worst by the looks of it.

 

Too many people who think they are superior to others and only they can change things.

 

Shaun, by the looks of it you have something in the pipeline. Good luck with it and when you release details, I think you will get a lot of folk coming out to help (if it's a practical, good idea!)

[Francis Albert]

OK, let me put it this way. How long do you think this situation can continue? Another year? Another five years?

 

Wow, you are back with a vengeance. If I had promised never to post again I don't think I would be quite so prolific quite so soon. But never mind.

 

Well, I watched Hearts for about 36 years before I saw us win anything (I don't count the Tennants Sixes) so I'll give it a while yet.

[iainmac]

If we were relegated, what would you do about the owner of Heart of Midlothian, and would you want real change?

 

I think you would have to ask what could you do, not what would you do?

 

Real change doesn't come about by discussing it on message boards BTW.

[shaun.lawson]

We had a plan, we put it into action - it's a concept alien to some people on here, I know. If the first phase hadn't went the way we had hoped, we would have moved into the next phase - we wouldn't have just talked about it though!

 

So we appointed a manager, and the debt for equity exercise took place. Which appears to have put your minds at rest. In which case, I can only assume there is no plan for the position we're in now - true or false?

[Drylaw Hearts]

Wow, you are back with a vengeance. If I had promised never to post again I don't think I would be quite so prolific quite so soon. But never mind.

 

Well, I watched Hearts for about 36 years before I saw us win anything (I don't count the Tennants Sixes) so I'll give it a while yet.

 

I don't think people are unhappy because we aren't winning trophies !!!

[iainmac]

So are SOH happy/comfortable with the current state of Club ?

 

Is there another meeting planned ?

 

Not unhappy enough to take to the barricades and we tend to meet every home game. Wouldn't surprise me to see them all at Haymarket next Sunday.

 

*Edit*

 

Actually it would, as most of the SOH guys are spearheading the Contalmaison effort this year while I'm holding the fort at Haymarket!

[shaun.lawson]

Wow, you are back with a vengeance. If I had promised never to post again I don't think I would be quite so prolific quite so soon. But never mind.

 

Well, I watched Hearts for about 36 years before I saw us win anything (I don't count the Tennants Sixes) so I'll give it a while yet.

 

I behaved like an absolute idiot a few weeks back, and am very embarrassed about it. I wasn't the first, nor will I be the last: but that's no excuse. So I reflected, realised what a prat I'd been, and returned to take my richly deserved medicine instead of being even more of a prat by staying away.

 

On your second point: fair enough I guess, but you must have a take on why so many others openly describe the soul as having been ripped out of the club? And that's not my hyperbole: that's what many others, a lot who've been going as long as you have, have to say.

[shaun.lawson]

I think you would have to ask what could you do, not what would you do?

 

Real change doesn't come about by discussing it on message boards BTW.

 

I entirely agree with you.

[Drylaw Hearts]

Not unhappy enough to take to the barricades and we tend to meet every home game.

 

There are very few Hearts supporters I know who are happy with Romanov and as you are well aware I'm not too keen on him either.

 

What is it you guys are seeing that others and me are missing ?

[iainmac]

So we appointed a manager, and the debt for equity exercise took place. Which appears to have put your minds at rest. In which case, I can only assume there is no plan for the position we're in now - true or false?

 

What position would that be exactly? If we had won yesterday - long shot, I know - we'd have been 3rd in the SPL and this thread wouldn't exist.

 

That's the problem Shaun, I don't know what you think 'the position' actually is? I hope it's not based on anything you've picked up abroad or on JKB / Hobos.net?

 

None of my associates or contacts have come up with any evidence to suggest that we should be as worried as you seem to be. Now, I don't want to be accused of sticking my head in the sand so if someone would like to either post on here or PM any real evidence that something is amiss - apart from the points tally - I'd be interested.

[Francis Albert]

I don't think people are unhappy because we aren't winning trophies !!!

 

Personally speaking I have been a lot happier since we did win a couple. One of them two years ago. In the thirty six years we didn't win any, we always had a great board, great managers, great players and great tactics of course.