Drylaw Hearts Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Personally speaking I have been a lot happier since we did win a couple. One of them two years ago. In the thirty six years we didn't win any, we always had a great board, great managers, great players and great tactics of course. Did you ever moan and wish we had someone else as owner during those 36 years ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 There are very few Hearts supporters I know who are happy with Romanov and as you are well aware I'm not too keen on him either. What is it you guys are seeing that others and me are missing ? Maybe it's because we've been over the course before and don't want to go over it again - seen as we got so little support the last time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Did you ever moan and wish we had someone else as owner during those 36 years ? Frequently! Parker Must Go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 What position would that be exactly? If we had won yesterday - long shot, I know - we'd have been 3rd in the SPL and this thread wouldn't exist. That's the problem Shaun, I don't know what you think 'the position' actually is? I hope it's not based on anything you've picked up abroad or on JKB / Hobos.net? None of my associates or contacts have come up with any evidence to suggest that we should be as worried as you seem to be. Now, I don't want to be accused of sticking my head in the sand so if someone would like to either post on here or PM any real evidence that something is amiss - apart from the points tally - I'd be interested. I think the position is one of roughly more of the same on the park, and mounting problems - some beyond our owner's control - off it. Will there be any hardcore evidence backing this up? I doubt it, for various reasons to do with libel and sources being unwilling to put themselves above the parapet. And what worries me above all is if the **** hits the fan, will we be ready to respond? Forewarned is forearmed, as the old saying goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 IOn your second point: fair enough I guess, but you must have a take on why so many others openly describe the soul as having been ripped out of the club? And that's not my hyperbole: that's what many others, a lot who've been going as long as you have, have to say. Hearts fans have never lacked hyperbole. "I'll never be back" could be our motto. The "soul" has been "ripped out of the club" (great stuff) ... so often. It goes way back, longer than even I can remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 None of my associates or contacts have come up with any evidence to suggest that we should be as worried as you seem to be. Now, I don't want to be accused of sticking my head in the sand so if someone would like to either post on here or PM any real evidence that something is amiss - apart from the points tally - I'd be interested. Iain.... You must be able to see for yourself that the Football side of the Club is still a bloody mess !!! The jury is well and truely out on yet another Manager and our Sporting Director has managed to avoid being axed which is bizarre considering the amount of bad coaches and players that have passed through this club in the short time he's been here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Tarts 1874 Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 So we appointed a manager, and the debt for equity exercise took place. Which appears to have put your minds at rest. In which case, I can only assume there is no plan for the position we're in now - true or false? What is the "position were are in now"? As far as I can see the position is that we are 2 points behind 3rd place! You seem to be of the opinion that if we all stand outside Tynecastle renting our clothes, slapping our heads and setting ourselves on fire we will suddenly improve the quality of the current 1st team. If Csaba has to build the 1st team organically that will take time, is this however not something that we would all want as opposed to more signings from the usual foreign agents? Why is it that you are not prepared to allow Csaba to get his team together, make his mistakes and make the changes that he has already said he knows he needs to make? Just in case you need reminding, Hearts are millions of pounds in debt, nothing is going to happen quickly. The sooner you and the likes of you get your wee brains around that fact the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Hearts fans have never lacked hyperbole. "I'll never be back" could be our motto. The "soul" has been "ripped out of the club" (great stuff) ... so often. It goes way back, longer than even I can remember. Well, I've only been a fan since 1991. But I can never ever remember such widespread disillusionment and apathy as exists now. Perhaps it's just me - and the internet has a lot to answer for too. But still: the disconnect between so many fans and the club is very serious, and continuing to worsen in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Maybe it's because we've been over the course before and don't want to go over it again - seen as we got so little support the last time? But the fact that the SOH guys met indicates they must be prepared to go over it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Did you ever moan and wish we had someone else as owner during those 36 years ? I never moan and have always considered it a privilege to support Hearts and everyone associated with it. I mean, what a ridiculous question. Of course I moan, all the time. Like most of us. That's my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Frequently! Parker Must Go. Then you can fully understand the feelings of Hearts supporters much like myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I think the position is one of roughly more of the same on the park, and mounting problems - some beyond our owner's control - off it. Will there be any hardcore evidence backing this up? I doubt it, for various reasons to do with libel and sources being unwilling to put themselves above the parapet. And what worries me above all is if the **** hits the fan, will we be ready to respond? Forewarned is forearmed, as the old saying goes. It's the same on the park (roughly) because it's the same squad of players (roughly) as last year. What happened to the big story that the Nationals were going to run with 2 weeks ago when you rang me? You managed to utterly convince yourself that it was definitely going to happen as your mate - who was in the know - told you so! I told you at the time not to be so gullible and now you're saying the press are worried about 'sources and libel' - if they had a solid story they would have 'printed and be damned' by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Then you can fully understand the feelings of Hearts supporters much like myself. Of course I can - I just can't understand why (unlike the '70s) no-one would take any action. What is it you / they are waiting for if the feeling is so strong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 What is the "position were are in now"? As far as I can see the position is that we are 2 points behind 3rd place! You seem to be of the opinion that if we all stand outside Tynecastle renting our clothes, slapping our heads and setting ourselves on fire will suddenly improve the quality of the current 1st team. If Csaba has to build the 1st team organically that will take time, is this however not something that we would all want as opposed to more signings from the usual foreign agents? Why is it that you are not prepared to allow Csaba to get his team together, make his mistakes and make the changes that he has already said he knows he needs to make? Just in case you need reminding, Hearts are millions of pounds in debt, nothing is going to happen quickly. The sooner you and the likes of you get your wee brains around that fact the better. Where have I said that anywhere? I don't even want us to protest against Vlad, because I can't see what good protests will do! I do, though, believe we should mobilise and unite behind a large scale fans' organisation, and provide a voice for the mounting numbers of people who are disaffected, fearful, and utterly fed up. I'm entirely happy for Csaba to get his team together: no organisation or movement would be against the manager or the team. But pretending that all is well just isn't going to cut it; nor is the continued "there is no alternative" paralysis of the fanbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Iain.... You must be able to see for yourself that the Football side of the Club is still a bloody mess !!! The jury is well and truely out on yet another Manager and our Sporting Director has managed to avoid being axed which is bizarre considering the amount of bad coaches and players that have passed through this club in the short time he's been here. I agree - I'm not happy about the standard of football I'm watching but, then again, with the exception of a few good seasons that's always been the case! I agree with you about the manager - talks a good game, well.......just talks, and talks.... So, do we start a campaign to get rid of the Sporting Director now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 It's the same on the park (roughly) because it's the same squad of players (roughly) as last year. What happened to the big story that the Nationals were going to run with 2 weeks ago when you rang me? You managed to utterly convince yourself that it was definitely going to happen as your mate - who was in the know - told you so! I told you at the time not to be so gullible and now you're saying the press are worried about 'sources and libel' - if they had a solid story they would have 'printed and be damned' by now. The stories are still sitting there, Iain. At the time, I told you it could be a matter of weeks or months - and it remains so. This is a financial story, not a footballing one: requiring much higher levels of proof, and for all sources to be attributable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Well, I've only been a fan since 1991. But I can never ever remember such widespread disillusionment and apathy as exists now. Perhaps it's just me - and the internet has a lot to answer for too. But still: the disconnect between so many fans and the club is very serious, and continuing to worsen in my view. Lucky you. You missed the worst years but even in your time frame crowds are still comfortably higher than average, despite the "disconnect". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I can't either. Iain, I have to be honest here: something has always worried me. When the CHARM threads were ongoing, the most hostility we encountered was from people who'd been heavily involved with SOH. Not you or Dougie, I hasten to add; but certainly others. SOH did a fantastic job in helping get rid of Robinson - but the follow-up was the arrival of Vlad. Could it be that those involved feel so invested in Romanov, and are so alarmed by the prospect of admitting they'd been wrong about him, that they'll be the very last to turn against him? Certainly, it's noticeable how staunchly pro-Romanov many SOH figures seem to be: how come? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/6168334.stm We're Hearts fans, not VR fans - don't get confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 The stories are still sitting there, Iain. At the time, I told you it could be a matter of weeks or months - and it remains so. This is a financial story, not a footballing one: requiring much higher levels of proof, and for all sources to be attributable. Ahem, the word you used was "imminent", - weeks and months never came into it. Once again, I have to ask if it's Revisionist History you are studying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/h/heart_of_midlothian/6168334.stm We're Hearts fans, not VR fans - don't get confused. Good. That's very reassuring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I do, though, believe we should mobilise and unite behind a large scale fans' organisation, . You could always join the Trust or the Fans Forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Ahem, the word you used was "imminent", - weeks and months never came into it. Once again, I have to ask if it's Revisionist History you are studying? I certainly didn't use that word! Oh, and I'm a post-revisionist: I wait until the two sides have argued themselves senseless, then calmly mop up with a conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 You could always join the Trust or the Fans Forum? Do either body work, or have any relevance? If they did, would you and Dougie have felt the need to go to the club separately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Do either body work, or have any relevance? If they did, would you and Dougie have felt the need to go to the club separately? I believe both of these organisations met with the club after we did - they just never invited us so we invited ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 But the fact that the SOH guys met indicates they must be prepared to go over it again. No, it doesn't. It means we keep our option open, that's all. We got a fair hearing from the club and everything they told us has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Of course I can - I just can't understand why (unlike the '70s) no-one would take any action. What is it you / they are waiting for if the feeling is so strong? As I have said to you before... I am not the right person to try and lead any sort of campaign. We need people who have been over the course before and have experience of fronting a group of Hearts supporters. IMO....... Save our Hearts have the knowledge, the experience and the contacts to put together another campaign to Save our Hearts from Vladimir Romanov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 No, it doesn't. It means we keep our option open, that's all. We got a fair hearing from the club and everything they told us has happened. Keeping your options open indicates to me that a SOH II cannot be ruled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Shaun and jv - please don't take this the wrong way because I really don't mean to sound facetious but I just don't think there are clear aims and objectives or any sort of longer term strategy. I know you're passionate about it, and I'd never criticise anyone who wants the best for the club...but I just can't see how any of the ideas mentioned thus far are going to improve our situation. One says that it isn't a 'GTF Vlad' initiative and then another suggests taking steps to hound him out by means of public humiliation...and nobody seems to have any sort of idea about what happens after that. What are the specific aims and objectives? Have they been agreed? What is the specific purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Keeping your options open indicates to me that a SOH II cannot be ruled out. Well, you can never say never but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Shaun and jv - please don't take this the wrong way because I really don't mean to sound facetious but I just don't think there are clear aims and objectives or any sort of longer term strategy. I know you're passionate about it, and I'd never criticise anyone who wants the best for the club...but I just can't see how any of the ideas mentioned thus far are going to improve our situation. One says that it isn't a 'GTF Vlad' initiative and then another suggests taking steps to hound him out by means of public humiliation...and nobody seems to have any sort of idea about what happens after that. What are the specific aims and objectives? Have they been agreed? What is the specific purpose? I couldn't agree more, Lee: this is very complicated, as I've always said. We are clearly moving towards calling for the establishment of a large scale fans organisation, something that would have nothing to do with Vlad, and could be left for generations to come. We are also looking at starting a movement ultimately aimed at reclaiming our club, and looking high and low for an alternative buyer. Until or unless such an alternative is found, we need a website, a hopefully growing movement, and ultimately events showcasing (now there's a topical word) all that's good about the club, and giving the fans a voice: not to demand the removal of Vlad, but aimed at giving us our pride and self-respect back. Yes, there are others with a different approach: it's up to us to agree a common way forward and stick to it. This whole thing has been delayed so long precisely because it's so complicated, and requires much considered thought. But that's no longer an excuse for inaction; and as soon as we've agreed exactly what we'll be proposing (and it shouldn't be too long now), you'll all be the first to know. Fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in leith Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I believe both of these organisations met with the club after we did - they just never invited us so we invited ourselves. And posted the results of the meeting, which gave us more info than we've had from the Trust or the Fans Forum, or indeed G10 (if it still exists). Thanks for that - and belated apologies for qureying why you got a meeting. You could - so you did I hope that we can either find a new group to unite concerned supporters, or rouse the existing groups to do something. At the risk of stating the obvious, any new group can only succeed if it has a broad base, and uses the experience of people who have been over the course before. FWIW I totally understand your frustration about the lack of support for SOH. I couldn't believe the attitude of a number of my mates who wouldn't chip in at least ?500 (which they could afford) because "Murrayfield is a done deal, so what's the point" For me the big change over the last few months is the recognition that the debt is an issue even after the debt for equity swap, because perhaps UBIG are not as sound as some people thought they were. The old argument that the debt is not a problem as "Vlad owes himself money" is not terribly convincing now. Ironically UBIG going bust might not be a disaster, as their creditors might take a loss on HOM plc's debt. I'm not saying Shaun's group are going to change the world, but we have to try something. I'm not sure what that 'something' is yet, but let's at least talk about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I couldn't agree more, Lee: this is very complicated, as I've always said. We are clearly moving towards calling for the establishment of a large scale fans organisation, something that would have nothing to do with Vlad, and could be left for generations to come. We are also looking at starting a movement ultimately aimed at reclaiming our club, and looking high and low for an alternative buyer. Until or unless such an alternative is found, we need a website, a hopefully growing movement, and ultimately events showcasing (now there's a topical word) all that's good about the club, and giving the fans a voice: not to demand the removal of Vlad, but aimed at giving us our pride and self-respect back. Yes, there are others with a different approach: it's up to us to agree a common way forward and stick to it. This whole thing has been delayed so long precisely because it's so complicated, and requires much considered thought. But that's no longer an excuse for inaction; and as soon as we've agreed exactly what we'll be proposing (and it shouldn't be too long now), you'll all be the first to know. Fair? Of course. I wasn't suggesting for one second that you lot wouldn't already have that in mind, I'm just not convinced that the common purpose is there - and without that, it just falls at the first hurdle. Not through any fault of yours, or mine or any other Hearts fan...it's just the circumstances that we find ourselves in and the complexity of the situation. I do like the sound of what you're proposing in that last post, but a group like that would take years to form without the assistance of the club itself. But y'know...anything which is designed to remind people that being a Jambo is pretty great definitely gets my vote...if that's what it actually does. But people have strong opinions about it all, and about our current owner...so agreeing a common aim sounds like mission impossible to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Of course. I wasn't suggesting for one second that you lot wouldn't already have that in mind, I'm just not convinced that the common purpose is there - and without that, it just falls at the first hurdle. Not through any fault of yours, or mine or any other Hearts fan...it's just the circumstances that we find ourselves in and the complexity of the situation. I do like the sound of what you're proposing in that last post, but a group like that would take years to form without the assistance of the club itself. But y'know...anything which is designed to remind people that being a Jambo is pretty great definitely gets my vote...if that's what it actually does. But people have strong opinions about it all, and about our current owner...so agreeing a common aim sounds like mission impossible to me. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Shaun, Why don't you start a Hearts Membership scheme like they have at Ajax, Schalke, Barca & umpteen other clubs......that way it doesn't have to be for or against anything or anybody at this stage it just has to be FOR Hearts & Hearts supporters - if ownership of the club isn't a realistic prospect in the short term it's not even as if you are trying to usurp the HoMST .... I proposed a supporters 'union' for want of a better word a few months back which could encompass all the other groups FF, Trust, Federation, SAH etc if they were willing to join but it wouldn't detract from these other organisations right or purpose for existing - they all represent their membership .... anyway I digress - the Hearts membership could exist for decades beyond any club owner or manager etc just as they do at other clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boabyarsebiscuit Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Shaun, Why don't you start a Hearts Membership scheme like they have at Ajax, Schalke, Barca & umpteen other clubs......that way it doesn't have to be for or against anything or anybody at this stage it just has to be FOR Hearts & Hearts supporters - if ownership of the club isn't a realistic prospect in the short term it's not even as if you are trying to usurp the HoMST .... I proposed a supporters 'union' for want of a better word a few months back which could encompass all the other groups FF, Trust, Federation, SAH etc if they were willing to join but it wouldn't detract from these other organisations right or purpose for existing - they all represent their membership .... anyway I digress - the Hearts membership could exist for decades beyond any club owner or manager etc just as they do at other clubs. Charlie, not a bad idea. However are the membership schemes you mention independent or are they run by the clubs themselves? Running a membership scheme sounds like a full time job (or several full time jobs). Just a thought on the discussion so far. The bickering on this thread is sad. The moaning on the internet about people moaning on the internet is quite funny though. Keep up the good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I think the membership schemes are all slightly different, some club owned some independant, some own the football club some don?t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 Shaun and jv - please don't take this the wrong way because I really don't mean to sound facetious but I just don't think there are clear aims and objectives or any sort of longer term strategy. I know you're passionate about it, and I'd never criticise anyone who wants the best for the club...but I just can't see how any of the ideas mentioned thus far are going to improve our situation. One says that it isn't a 'GTF Vlad' initiative and then another suggests taking steps to hound him out by means of public humiliation...and nobody seems to have any sort of idea about what happens after that. What are the specific aims and objectives? Have they been agreed? What is the specific purpose[/i]? Fair comments, redm ... and one of the reasons we are going to meet again, rather than air the contents of our unfinished washing basket here ... Overall though, the basic concept is an all-encompassing Hearts fans organisation ... movement, even ... with one aim in mind - to be proactive about seeking the best for our club's future - whatever route that may take, rather than just sit back, pay the ST and replica strip money and "enjoy" the view. A sub-text also would be to be "nimble" and prepared enough to react rapidly to ... let's just imagine this scenario ... some announcement from Our Masters that really really p'ssed us off. Above all, and I go back to post #1 here - let's look forward, and only forward, for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 What a depressing thread. Backs up my view that the only time Hearts fans will ever be united on Romanov is when it is too late. NMHs idea is a good one - but I still think it would need a purpose. Also, Shaun - any new group really needs a figurehead / committee that a good chunk of Hearts fans would trust and be prepared to back and support. As Romanov has proven football fans are very easily led, and if you can get high profile genuine Hearts fans fronting a group intended for change you will probably see momentum build. I maintain that if people simply take the "no other option" option they are completely ignoring how the entire human race has evolved from cavemen. We would still have a society where women didnt vote and black people were slaves. A lot of our Scottish forefathers would be appalled of an attitude such as the "there is no other option". What a disappointing state of mind to admit to Change in the world has not been offered to people on a plate. Change has only happened as a result of people challenging the status quo, not knowing how it might turn out, but having an aim and doing something about it. I am behind you on this Shaun, but first I think you need some sort of leadership of substance (no dig against you) to front the group and evolve its aims and growth. This may be a one or two year task, but if we are still solvent Romanov will remain in place and fans will remain divided so the tortoise option will still be the right one to back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckystrike Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Well, if you actually want to meet senior figures at the club, there is an element of confidentiality on both sides that has to be respected. If you can't accept that........good luck in your attempts to do whatever it is you are trying to achieve. I would suggest having a go at people like Foulkes & Deans is not really in anyone's best interests. Does this confidentiality that has to be respected only apply to senior members of the club and those who consider themselves to be at the top table of Hearts Supporters. It obviously doesn't appear from your actions to extend any further than that or you would not have used the contents of a private phone call with Shaun to berate him on a public messageboard. Just my thoughts on what i saw as a pretty low blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Das Root Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 You could always join the Trust or the Fans Forum? I offered to build the FF a new website free of charge, free hosting, blah blah. Was told they would talk on it and get back to me. Nobody ever did. I can only assume they've gone the way of the dodo? Either that or they don't know how to PM. I like the idea of the 'Vlad exclusive' supporters group, anything done now should exclude him in the hope he's not here for longer than it takes to pack Audrey into a suitcase and p*ss off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambovambo Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 You could always join the Trust or the Fans Forum? iainmac - do you want to be part of a movement such as we are discussing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Wouldn't time be better spent sourcing a potential new owner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickmaroon Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Fair comments, redm ... and one of the reasons we are going to meet again, rather than air the contents of our unfinished washing basket here ... ... Above all, and I go back to post #1 here - let's look forward, and only forward, for a change. That's probably one of the reasons that this thread has gone the way it has. Because you have aired your washing basket without much sense of what is inside! Like Redm (or Alan P. earlier in the thread) it is pretty hard to commit support to something that remains rather vague. Fair play to you and Shaun (and I am being absolutely sincere here, no sarcasm at all) for trying to get things moving ... but maybe you would be better waiting to firm up your 'contents' before floating kites on KB? Meantime, I await with interest seeing how dirty your washing is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genghis Khan Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Does this confidentiality that has to be respected only apply to senior members of the club and those who consider themselves to be at the top table of Hearts Supporters. It obviously doesn't appear from your actions to extend any further than that or you would not have used the contents of a private phone call with Shaun to berate him on a public messageboard. Just my thoughts on what i saw as a pretty low blow. On that note, is it OK for Shaun to air the contents of a private email from Stewart Bathgate on here? Just a thought........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 A quick question - have the players and staff been paid regularly since the 'wages fiasco'? As for 'den mothers' and MD, if they're not getting paid, they should either withdraw their labour and / or take a case to the Small Claims Court. Is Mark still broadcasting on HW? I think you must have been getting fed some amount of bollocks when you had your holiday across the city. Maybe it was the same platter of bollocks you yourself have dined on?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie-Brown Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Change is only possible if there is broad consensus & realistic coherent viable alternative solutions or choices to offer people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 It's all very well navel gazing - and in principle I support the aim of setting up such a fans organisation - but the truth is that until someone with some concrete proposals emerges and states that they are willing to make an offer for the club then we'll have to make do and mend with what we've got. So, in the short term, there is nothing wrong with calling for the board to be sacked and for Korbochka to be sacked. They are failing to do their jobs. Start with this and see if the momentum builds. If not, we've nothing to lose. As for Csaba, I think him and the players should be left out of this. Change there will happen if change happens further up the chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knoxyjambo Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 http://www.supporters-direct.org/page.asp?p=2457 The above link seem to be helpful when setting up such supporters groups or 'trusts'. I'd say that initially some kind of formal questionaire or survey would need to be formulated so that any group can pinpoint exactly what it is that everyone want's to see changed. It would be good if this could get circulated in some way (at games, via internet etc) to as many supporters as possible and to get as much feedback as possible from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portobellojambo1 Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 OK, let me put it this way. How long do you think this situation can continue? Another year? Another five years? I don't think anyone is enamoured by the way the club has been run Shaun, and I have not read through this thread totally (started at the end and read backwards to here) so do not know exactly what is being proposed. However I have an idea it is to get Romanov out. A certain amount of unity may be achieved on that front, but then you have to move the plan forward, what comes thereafter. Once Romanov has gone the club has to continue to function on a day to day basis, the source of the funding having been removed how do we then operate (do we hope that at least 60 people sign up for the scheme, and that each is willing to take out a rolling loan of ?100,000 over 5 years to ensure the basics, the players wages, continue to be paid each month). It is OK to grumble that this isn't working, that isn't working, we need to change this, we need to change that, but modern football also needs one major component to function, a hell of a lot of money. Has this aspect been thought about, are there people out there who would support such a change financially (if there are I think they would already have approached Romanov to instigate such change), you cannot simply remove someone then stand still, and hope everything functions as was before, but without any cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 http://www.supporters-direct.org/page.asp?p=2457 The above link seem to be helpful when setting up such supporters groups or 'trusts'. I'd say that initially some kind of formal questionaire or survey would need to be formulated so that any group can pinpoint exactly what it is that everyone want's to see changed. It would be good if this could get circulated in some way (at games, via internet etc) to as many supporters as possible and to get as much feedback as possible from this. The problem is that we have a Trust that no one trusts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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