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Cammy Devlin


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Thunder and Lightning
26 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

Reminds me of you mate - gets fired in and takes no shite off anyone. You could ping a pass though 😎

Please notice me, please. 😂 

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Batistuta87
21 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

Please notice me, please. 😂 

Aye very good. 

He's been on here for years and that's probably the first time I've replied to him. 

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Cranston

Always liked Cammy. Had a few mediocre games, but overall he's been a good signing and hopefully will improve.

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Thunder and Lightning
47 minutes ago, Batistuta87 said:

Aye very good. 

He's been on here for years and that's probably the first time I've replied to him. 

 

 

You've followed from afar? How romantic. 

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Batistuta87
10 hours ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

 

 

You've followed from afar? How romantic. 

You're a plum. 

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Aware he has a lot of admirers but Devlin has to be one of the most overrated players at the club. I understand why so many fans love him because he works hard and is passionate. That's where it ends for me though. Working hard should be the bare minimum and I prefer players to have quality to go with it as well. For those who argue that he isn't a limited footballer, do you honestly think he'll play at a higher level than Hearts in his career? Would be astounded if he did. The guy is almost 26, he's not a young laddie anymore and I'd have thought he would have improved on certain aspects of his game by now. We should be watching a midfielder coming into his prime.

 

FWIW I think he can be effective at times and in certain games (providing he doesn't get a booking right away). He can do a job and I'd keep him as a squad player but certainly shouldn't be starting every week IMO. The likes of Hof and Beni are miles ahead of him in almost every department. 

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Watt-Zeefuik
2 hours ago, Chimp said:

Aware he has a lot of admirers but Devlin has to be one of the most overrated players at the club. I understand why so many fans love him because he works hard and is passionate. That's where it ends for me though. Working hard should be the bare minimum and I prefer players to have quality to go with it as well. For those who argue that he isn't a limited footballer, do you honestly think he'll play at a higher level than Hearts in his career? Would be astounded if he did. The guy is almost 26, he's not a young laddie anymore and I'd have thought he would have improved on certain aspects of his game by now. We should be watching a midfielder coming into his prime.

 

FWIW I think he can be effective at times and in certain games (providing he doesn't get a booking right away). He can do a job and I'd keep him as a squad player but certainly shouldn't be starting every week IMO. The likes of Hof and Beni are miles ahead of him in almost every department. 

 

Probably not significantly higher if at all, but why would that matter?

 

Much as I hate the wretched meathead I've said before that if he takes his game up a notch Devlin could be to Hearts what Scott Brown was to Celtic. (nb: everyone note that this is an analogy and I'm not saying Devlin is as good as Brown was) Was he ever good enough to go to top EPL sides or Bundesliga as players he played with did? No, he was not. Do Celtic fans regret having him for 14 years? I seriously doubt you'd find any of them that would see it as a bad thing.

 

I've said on this thread that under Naisy he clearly needs to work on the attacking portion of his game and on his positioning if he wants to keep a regular place, but if he does that and takes a step up, I think he can be a 10 year player for us. Will he be that "next level" player that we always want? No, but unless our finances change rather radially (as in our wage bill becomes double what it is now) IMO there's always going to be a need for players like Cammy at our level. He will never be the best or even fifth best player on our team, but we still need what he brings and his attitude is second to none.

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Chuck Berry
3 hours ago, Chimp said:

Aware he has a lot of admirers but Devlin has to be one of the most overrated players at the club. I understand why so many fans love him because he works hard and is passionate. That's where it ends for me though. Working hard should be the bare minimum and I prefer players to have quality to go with it as well. For those who argue that he isn't a limited footballer, do you honestly think he'll play at a higher level than Hearts in his career? Would be astounded if he did. The guy is almost 26, he's not a young laddie anymore and I'd have thought he would have improved on certain aspects of his game by now. We should be watching a midfielder coming into his prime.

 

FWIW I think he can be effective at times and in certain games (providing he doesn't get a booking right away). He can do a job and I'd keep him as a squad player but certainly shouldn't be starting every week IMO. The likes of Hof and Beni are miles ahead of him in almost every department. 

 

Have to agree, Hof has improved and overtaken him.

 

He is a player I want to keep, as you say in certain games and certain opposition he can have an impact, but I can't see him holding down a first team starting position.   Good squad player.

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3 minutes ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

 

Probably not significantly higher if at all, but why would that matter?

 

Much as I hate the wretched meathead I've said before that if he takes his game up a notch Devlin could be to Hearts what Scott Brown was to Celtic. (nb: everyone note that this is an analogy and I'm not saying Devlin is as good as Brown was) Was he ever good enough to go to top EPL sides or Bundesliga as players he played with did? No, he was not. Do Celtic fans regret having him for 14 years? I seriously doubt you'd find any of them that would see it as a bad thing.

 

I've said on this thread that under Naisy he clearly needs to work on the attacking portion of his game and on his positioning if he wants to keep a regular place, but if he does that and takes a step up, I think he can be a 10 year player for us. Will he be that "next level" player that we always want? No, but unless our finances change rather radially (as in our wage bill becomes double what it is now) IMO there's always going to be a need for players like Cammy at our level. He will never be the best or even fifth best player on our team, but we still need what he brings and his attitude is second to none.

 

It matters because he isn't even at the level where he's one of the best players at our club currently and as I mentioned Hof and Beni are already levels above. We should be aiming to attract better players than Devlin in future, if you disagree then fine.

 

Also why are you going on about the need for players like him and not being one of the better players on our team? I literally mentioned myself that he can be effective and a decent squad player? It's as though you just ignored that part completely, I acknowledged what he brings.

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Jim_Duncan

Can’t wait til Cammy gets his hands on the Scottish cup. Reckon he’ll go daft with it and give us an iconic celebration like Rudi’s with the wig facing the fans in 2012. 

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5 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

Have to agree, Hof has improved and overtaken him.

 

He is a player I want to keep, as you say in certain games and certain opposition he can have an impact, but I can't see him holding down a first team starting position.   Good squad player.

 

👍

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Watt-Zeefuik
55 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

It matters because he isn't even at the level where he's one of the best players at our club currently and as I mentioned Hof and Beni are already levels above. We should be aiming to attract better players than Devlin in future, if you disagree then fine.

 

Also why are you going on about the need for players like him and not being one of the better players on our team? I literally mentioned myself that he can be effective and a decent squad player? It's as though you just ignored that part completely, I acknowledged what he brings.

 

I didn't ignore it, I just think you're just going a bit too far with the conclusion

 

In any given season, we will need 14-15 or so players capable of making regular starts, not counting youth and squad players, because we don't know how injuries or simply drops in form are going to catch us. To me "one of the best players at our club" is a group of 5-7 players—right now I'd say Shanks, Gordon, Clark, and Kent, plus Cochrane, Forrest, and Nieuwenhoff on the fringe, with McKay, Halkett, and Baningime having an argument that they would be in that list if they were fit. We're going to lose at least 1-2 of those this summer if not more, and probably will not be able to attract more than 2-3 of that quality in the same window.

 

That leaves at least 5-7 players who will be regular starters who aren't going to be in the "best at the club" category but also are above squad players. That's where I slot Cammy (again, with the proviso that he has to make the improvements Naisy is trying to get him to make). You're saying, "fine, he's just a squad player" and I'm saying no he's possibly good enough to be a 30 games/year starter for years and years to come but that never is "one of our best."

 

You called him one of the most overrated players at the club. I don't think anyone on this board would say he's in our top 5-8 players. The difference is whether you see us attempting the Sisyphean task of filling out squad with Shankland-level players or do you try to augment them with 5 or so Smudge-level guys who will always show up, never hide, and be positive contributors every time out while rarely if ever turning in MotM performances.

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17 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

 

I didn't ignore it, I just think you're just going a bit too far with the conclusion

 

In any given season, we will need 14-15 or so players capable of making regular starts, not counting youth and squad players, because we don't know how injuries or simply drops in form are going to catch us. To me "one of the best players at our club" is a group of 5-7 players—right now I'd say Shanks, Gordon, Clark, and Kent, plus Cochrane, Forrest, and Nieuwenhoff on the fringe, with McKay, Halkett, and Baningime having an argument that they would be in that list if they were fit. We're going to lose at least 1-2 of those this summer if not more, and probably will not be able to attract more than 2-3 of that quality in the same window.

 

That leaves at least 5-7 players who will be regular starters who aren't going to be in the "best at the club" category but also are above squad players. That's where I slot Cammy (again, with the proviso that he has to make the improvements Naisy is trying to get him to make). You're saying, "fine, he's just a squad player" and I'm saying no he's possibly good enough to be a 30 games/year starter for years and years to come but that never is "one of our best."

 

You called him one of the most overrated players at the club. I don't think anyone on this board would say he's in our top 5-8 players. The difference is whether you see us attempting the Sisyphean task of filling out squad with Shankland-level players or do you try to augment them with 5 or so Smudge-level guys who will always show up, never hide, and be positive contributors every time out while rarely if ever turning in MotM performances.

 

You did ignore it though as you proceeded to basically try and tell me something I already pointed out. Unless you were maybe only focussing on the negative part about what I'd said so you missed it because you wanted to get your point across.

 

Yes I called him one of the most overrated players because I think there are so many fans who love him and ignore his lack of ability as a footballer because of his passion and work rate. You do realise that being overrated doesn't mean you have to be one of the top players? That's not what overrated means, it means rated too highly.

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gordon simpson
22 hours ago, Chimp said:

Aware he has a lot of admirers but Devlin has to be one of the most overrated players at the club. I understand why so many fans love him because he works hard and is passionate. That's where it ends for me though. Working hard should be the bare minimum and I prefer players to have quality to go with it as well. For those who argue that he isn't a limited footballer, do you honestly think he'll play at a higher level than Hearts in his career? Would be astounded if he did. The guy is almost 26, he's not a young laddie anymore and I'd have thought he would have improved on certain aspects of his game by now. We should be watching a midfielder coming into his prime.

 

FWIW I think he can be effective at times and in certain games (providing he doesn't get a booking right away). He can do a job and I'd keep him as a squad player but certainly shouldn't be starting every week IMO. The likes of Hof and Beni are miles ahead of him in almost every department. 

chimp you monkey 26 not a young man? try saying that when you are 68 today lol 

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Fozzyonthefence
29 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

You did ignore it though as you proceeded to basically try and tell me something I already pointed out. Unless you were maybe only focussing on the negative part about what I'd said so you missed it because you wanted to get your point across.

 

Yes I called him one of the most overrated players because I think there are so many fans who love him and ignore his lack of ability as a footballer because of his passion and work rate. You do realise that being overrated doesn't mean you have to be one of the top players? That's not what overrated means, it means rated too highly.


If anything he is one of the most underrated players, not many seem to rate him too highly.   Because he does all the ugly stuff it seems he’s not appreciated by many, including yourself.  Did you not appreciate Julian  Brellier either?  Similar type of player to Devlin but key to that great team we had in 2005/06 but Devlin has more in his locker than Brellier had.  Devlin can be effective all over the pitch including in attacking areas, although that is an area of his game he needs to work on which Naismith has picked up on and trying to sort. 

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9 minutes ago, gordon simpson said:

chimp you monkey 26 not a young man? try saying that when you are 68 today lol 

 

😂

 

Happy birthday mate 👍

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5 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:


If anything he is one of the most underrated players, not many seem to rate him too highly.   Because he does all the ugly stuff it seems he’s not appreciated by many, including yourself.  Did you not appreciate Julian  Brellier either?  Similar type of player to Devlin but key to that great team we had in 2005/06 but Devlin has more in his locker than Brellier had.  Devlin can be effective all over the pitch including in attacking areas, although that is an area of his game he needs to work on which Naismith has picked up on and trying to sort. 

 

I did appreciate Brellier I thought he was superb. He was far better than Devlin though. Better footballer and more powerful too. The guy was on the books at Inter Milan, not comparable. For you to suggest Devlin is better is a wild shout but we're all entitled to our opinions.

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We_are_the_Hearts
14 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

I did appreciate Brellier I thought he was superb. He was far better than Devlin though. Better footballer and more powerful too. The guy was on the books at Inter Milan, not comparable. For you to suggest Devlin is better is a wild shout but we're all entitled to our opinions.

Stewart and Brebner were on the books at Man U. Brellier was average but played in a very good team and was quietly effective. His career shows how average he was, Hearts was his pinnacle. Devlin has rightly found himself out the team and will need to work to get back in. He has still been an effective player for us over his time. Memorable moments this season include his double against Rosenboorg

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Just now, We_are_the_Hearts said:

Stewart and Brebner were on the books at Man U. Brellier was average but played in a very good team and was quietly effective. His career shows how average he was, Hearts was his pinnacle. Devlin has rightly found himself out the team and will need to work to get back in. He has still been an effective player for us over his time. Memorable moments this season include his double against Rosenboorg

 

Brellier average? Did you watch him at Hearts?

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We_are_the_Hearts
3 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

Brellier average? Did you watch him at Hearts?

Yip, every week. In fact Aguair came in for him and his absence was hardly noticed. 

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Just now, We_are_the_Hearts said:

Yip, every week. In fact Aguair came in for him and his absence was hardly noticed. 

 

Surprised you're downplaying how good he was for us. He was superb and instrumental to how we played. Being average in a very good team is nonsense.

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We_are_the_Hearts
1 minute ago, Chimp said:

 

Surprised you're downplaying how good he was for us. He was superb and instrumental to how we played. Being average in a very good team is nonsense.

All opinions mate, I did say he was effective.

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1 minute ago, We_are_the_Hearts said:

All opinions mate, I did say he was effective.

 

You said he was quietly effective. Nothing quiet about his style and what contributed. Again, surprised you're downplaying him but maybe it's to put the slant that Devlin is better. Yep it is all opinions and we're entitled to them.

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We_are_the_Hearts
Just now, Chimp said:

 

You said he was quietly effective. Nothing quiet about his style and what contributed. Again, surprised you're downplaying him but maybe it's to put the slant that Devlin is better. Yep it is all opinions and we're entitled to them.

I wouldn't compare players 20 years apart playing in different teams. Just giving my opinion on both

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Just now, We_are_the_Hearts said:

I wouldn't compare players 20 years apart playing in different teams. Just giving my opinion on both

 

So you can only ever compare players who play in the same team in the same year? What?

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We_are_the_Hearts
7 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

So you can only ever compare players who play in the same team in the same year? What?

Not what I said but 20 years apart is pointless IMO

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Just now, We_are_the_Hearts said:

Not what I said but 20 years apart is pointless IMO

 

So you can't compare Fyssas to Kingsley for example?  Miko to McKay?  Webster to Kent?

 

Fair enough.

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Bad Religion

Can Devlin not just focus on his primary role as a holding midfielder? There’s an argument to say he needs to work on his distribution but why would Naismith be trying to work on his attacking play where it’s pretty obviously not within his skill set. 
 

His job is to win the ball and give it to others. We need a more balanced midfield with players that compliment each other.
 

Devlin is definitely good enough in my opinion to play that holding role supported with quality players around him. 

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Fozzyonthefence
39 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

I did appreciate Brellier I thought he was superb. He was far better than Devlin though. Better footballer and more powerful too. The guy was on the books at Inter Milan, not comparable. For you to suggest Devlin is better is a wild shout but we're all entitled to our opinions.


 Brellier was very limited as a footballer but a very important part of that team and one of the first names on the team sheet.   However, he never scored a goal for us and doubt he had many, if any assists.  But he was very good at what he did, even if we was even more likely to pick up a yellow card than Devlin!  
 

Cammy has the potential to be better than Brellier though, even if we’ve only seen it in occasional games (home game v Rosenberg was a performance that Brellier wasn’t capable of, nor Beni nor any of our current midfielders for that matter) and Naismith seems to have hope that he can coach him into a more attack minded player).  I certainly haven’t given up hope on him and still think we are a better team with him in it when he is on his game.  Also, for those slating him recently, worth remembering that he has just returned from injury and others such as Beni and Halkett weren’t able to hit the ground running either when they returned. 

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Fozzyonthefence
2 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:

Can Devlin not just focus on his primary role as a holding midfielder? There’s an argument to say he needs to work on his distribution but why would Naismith be trying to work on his attacking play where it’s pretty obviously not within his skill set. 
 

His job is to win the ball and give it to others. We need a more balanced midfield with players that compliment each other.
 

Devlin is definitely good enough in my opinion to play that holding role supported with quality players around him. 


Yeah I agree, I think he is more likely to succeed as a holding mid rather than a Cameron / Hartley type.  Especially if Beni leaves. 

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Watt-Zeefuik
6 hours ago, Chimp said:

 

You did ignore it though as you proceeded to basically try and tell me something I already pointed out. Unless you were maybe only focussing on the negative part about what I'd said so you missed it because you wanted to get your point across.

 

Yes I called him one of the most overrated players because I think there are so many fans who love him and ignore his lack of ability as a footballer because of his passion and work rate. You do realise that being overrated doesn't mean you have to be one of the top players? That's not what overrated means, it means rated too highly.

 

You're mistaking me ignoring you with me disagreeing with you.

 

You called him a squad player. I think he's better than that. A regular starter is not a squad player.

 

You said he's overrated. I don't think anyone overrates what he does. We love him for what he is. The difference of opinion is whether what he does (with some improvements that he may or may not make) is enough for us to be happy with him as a player.

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Watt-Zeefuik
5 hours ago, Bad Religion said:

Can Devlin not just focus on his primary role as a holding midfielder? There’s an argument to say he needs to work on his distribution but why would Naismith be trying to work on his attacking play where it’s pretty obviously not within his skill set. 
 

His job is to win the ball and give it to others. We need a more balanced midfield with players that compliment each other.
 

Devlin is definitely good enough in my opinion to play that holding role supported with quality players around him. 

 

I think Naisy wants to play with a single holding mid and wants that person to be more in the Baningime or Nieuwenhoff role, capable of holding the ball under pressure.

 

I think he wants Cammy's chaos-making further up the pitch as part of pressure on the defenders but for him to be effective there he needs to be a bit better with his distrubtion.

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gordon simpson
6 hours ago, Chimp said:

 

😂

 

Happy birthday mate 👍

cheers Chimp 

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Bad Religion
1 hour ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

 

I think Naisy wants to play with a single holding mid and wants that person to be more in the Baningime or Nieuwenhoff role, capable of holding the ball under pressure.

 

I think he wants Cammy's chaos-making further up the pitch as part of pressure on the defenders but for him to be effective there he needs to be a bit better with his distrubtion.


I agree with you that we should only be playing one CDM but to suggest Devlin plays further forward is crazy imo. 
 

I’ve noticed on another thread that you’re suggesting (tongue and cheek hopefully) that Sibbick is trialed up front 😂

 

We’re struggling to score goals as it is let alone with these two leading from the front. Do you never want to see us score another goal? 

Edited by Bad Religion
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Watt-Zeefuik
15 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:


I agree with you that we should only be playing one CDM but to suggest Devlin plays further forward is crazy imo. 
 

I’ve noticed on another thread that you’re suggesting (tongue and cheek hopefully) that Sibbick is trialed up front 😂

 

We’re struggling to score goals as it is let alone with these two leading from the front. Do you never want to see us score another goal? 

 

My comment on Sibbick was partially tongue in cheek, partially because I honestly think it's no worse than any other idea for him. As I said I wouldn't want him on as a starter, but putting him on when we're having trouble breaking down a side that's sitting in could work, to use his height and pace. When he's gotten forward he's not bad at shooting. I'm not saying it's a definite winner but the regular insistence that he's a DM in disguise is no better.

 

As for Devlin, I think in a 3 man midfield where we have one DM at the base and two further forward, there's room for Dev on the condition both that he needs to work on his passing and distribution and that he play next to a true creative playmaker like McKay. Something like

                    K

     Kingsley Kent Rowles

Dex           Hoff         Cochrane

           Dev    McKay

       Forrest Shanks

 

Not being too picky about the players but there Dev is surrounded by a lot of playmaking potential which makes his job of tackling the ball off DMs, intercepting passes, and winning the ball high more important and where it's less important for him to be the critical link to the attack, because there's five players around him that are decent at doing that already.

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Bad Religion
48 minutes ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

 

My comment on Sibbick was partially tongue in cheek, partially because I honestly think it's no worse than any other idea for him. As I said I wouldn't want him on as a starter, but putting him on when we're having trouble breaking down a side that's sitting in could work, to use his height and pace. When he's gotten forward he's not bad at shooting. I'm not saying it's a definite winner but the regular insistence that he's a DM in disguise is no better.

 

As for Devlin, I think in a 3 man midfield where we have one DM at the base and two further forward, there's room for Dev on the condition both that he needs to work on his passing and distribution and that he play next to a true creative playmaker like McKay. Something like

                    K

     Kingsley Kent Rowles

Dex           Hoff         Cochrane

           Dev    McKay

       Forrest Shanks

 

Not being too picky about the players but there Dev is surrounded by a lot of playmaking potential which makes his job of tackling the ball off DMs, intercepting passes, and winning the ball high more important and where it's less important for him to be the critical link to the attack, because there's five players around him that are decent at doing that already.


For context can you provide an example of a player who plays this new Devlin role in another team or league?

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Watt-Zeefuik
45 minutes ago, Bad Religion said:


For context can you provide an example of a player who plays this new Devlin role in another team or league?

 

I'll put my hand up and say I don't have a lot of time to watch football right now and mostly just watch Hearts, so my reference points are a bit out of date. The closest person that pops to mind for me is Michael Bradley, the former USMNT, Borussa, and Roma player.  In more recent players, I mean obviously this is the Lamborghini version that it seems silly to compare Devlin to but Busquets comes to mind in his defensive role when playing under Xavi.

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JamboBoy

His tactical and positional awareness is absolutely abysmal and he has shown no signs of improvement whatsoever, particularly with his discipline. I would be more than happy if he was moved on in the summer. 

Edited by JamboBoy
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Ricardo Quaresma

Moved on in the summer

 

Away an' throw shite...

 

:rofl:

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  • 5 weeks later...
tartofmidlothian

Cammy was my MOTM in the semi today, I reckon. Bags of dig and aggression, that's what I love to see from a Hearts player in a match like that, but he kept control as well. Good player.

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Diadora Van Basten
10 minutes ago, tartofmidlothian said:

Cammy was my MOTM in the semi today, I reckon. Bags of dig and aggression, that's what I love to see from a Hearts player in a match like that, but he kept control as well. Good player.

Agreed I actually thought this could be a good game for him as against Rangers at Ibrox earlier in the season we made no tackles and Cammy is strong at tackles.m

 

Also thought we fell out the game when he went off. 

Edited by Diadora Van Basten
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Diehardjambo1

The lads a player, don’t understand the pelters he gets when the same people slating him were full of praise when he was turning in some incredible displays after signing. Linked with a lot of big teams during those displays and has had a few injuries of late. A fully fit and regular playing  Devlin is a big asset. 

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Pasquale for King

If his more skilled teammates had as much heart and effort as he does then we would be much better off, especially his partner today. 
A team needs balance and whoever plays next to him needs to dictate the play, once he has won the ball back for him. Hopefully he and the Hoff will combine well and whoever else we sign as we are a bit light in there really. 

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Corstorphine Jambo

I agree he was pretty good today. Some good interceptions but we never quite got the break of the ball to benefit from them

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LogicalEric

Thought that the shape completely went as soon as he was subbed off. That being said its a frustrating watch when one of the cb's passes him the ball only for him to just pop it straight back to them rather than taking it on the turn.

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There’s no doubt playing a Celtic/Rangers Devlin is needed more than against the crapper teams. He did actually play quite well today, but that move in the first half when he either had to shoot first time, or lay it off to the spare man on the right, and he f**ks up .

 

He has heart and desire, but he also frustrates the living daylights out of me. The amount of time Kent or Rowles have the ball and Cammy regularly shows for it, receives a 5-10 yard pass and he passes it straight back to them without moving left or right, he doesn’t create an angle after his original pass back. It is just a complete and utter waste of a pass and is a pass for the sake of it.

 

Cammy just doesn’t have the natural football ability. He might work better with Hoff, Dhanda, Spittal etc, but he is so limited as a footballer, but he did make some decent interceptions today. We just need better because Devlin/Beni instinctively just both want to play the ball backwards

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heartsfc_fan

Did alright today. Would've kept him on a bit longer.

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