Gordon v Zander idea.

[Dazo]

Just now, brux said:

I agree it's not simple for SN, but the goal should be simple, what wins hearts football games and anything else should not cloud that aim.

And thankfully but unsurprisingly that’s exactly what SN is doing and not getting all misty eyed over Gordon. A Gordon who actually want looking his very best prior to injury. SN ‘s job is to win football matches and we’ve done that very well recently, wtf would he risk that by dropping Zander. Madness. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

7 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

 

Same as any GK situation, I guess. He can only earn it back by Clark making mistakes / playing poorly. But Clark seems to be thriving on the pressure at the moment.

 

I agree with Taffin that there is a momentum reset in the off season and they can be judged more equally, but right now its up to Clark to keep performing at 'Gordon levels'.

Clark has never performed at Gordon levels and never will.  He’s 32 now and only got 2 Scotland caps?  If he’d been performing at Gordon levels he’d have loads of Scotland caps but he’s been performing at St Johnstone levels.   It’s maybe unfair to constantly compare him to such a fantastic keeper  but that’s the reality and unfortunate position he finds himself in.  

Edited March 15 by Fozzyonthefence

[Dazo]

3 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Some fans won’t bother turning up (we see that every week with empty ST seats and there tends to be more empty seats the more meaningless the game). 
 

I’ll ask again - what is more important now - winning the cup or a few extra points in guaranteed 3rd and would you play Clark or Gordon in the semi?

I would play Zander but CG is our cup goalkeeper so it is irrelevant. That’s the way SN has went and to change it for a semi would be wrong, personally I wouldn’t have started it but that’s where we are. 

[Bull's-eye]

3 hours ago, briever said:

I've never understood why goalkeeper seems to be the sole position in a club that never gets rotated if you have players of equal calibre.  

 

[boag1874]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

And thankfully but unsurprisingly that’s exactly what SN is doing and not getting all misty eyed over Gordon. A Gordon who actually want looking his very best prior to injury. SN ‘s job is to win football matches and we’ve done that very well recently, wtf would he risk that by dropping Zander. Madness. 

I think this is a point people are also missing. Gordon was looking very ordinary in the months leading up to his injury and had even made a few mistakes that cost us goals. People are pining over a version of Craig Gordon that we haven't seen since the 21/22 season, 2 years ago near enough with a horrendous leg break on top of that.

 

We all love Gordon, he's a Hearts and Scottish football legend and quite probably the finest keeper this country has ever produced, possibly the best it WILL ever produce. But lets not kid ourselves on, he's 41, he's maybe got a season or 2 left tops. Clark could be the no.1 for the next 4/5 seasons, he's been the second best goalie in the league behind only Jack Butland this season. He's playing because he deserves to, if he starts letting the pressure get to him then in comes CG.

[Fozzyonthefence]

12 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I would play Zander but CG is our cup goalkeeper so it is irrelevant. That’s the way SN has went and to change it for a semi would be wrong, personally I wouldn’t have started it but that’s where we are. 

SN knows better than you, as you said. 

[Dazo]

3 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

I think this is a point people are also missing. Gordon was looking very ordinary in the months leading up to his injury and had even made a few mistakes that cost us goals. People are pining over a version of Craig Gordon that we haven't seen since the 21/22 season, 2 years ago near enough with a horrendous leg break on top of that.

 

We all love Gordon, he's a Hearts and Scottish football legend and quite probably the finest keeper this country has ever produced, possibly the best it WILL ever produce. But lets not kid ourselves on, he's 41, he's maybe got a season or 2 left tops. Clark could be the no.1 for the next 4/5 seasons, he's been the second best goalie in the league behind only Jack Butland this season. He's playing because he deserves to, if he starts letting the pressure get to him then in comes CG.

 

The CG fan club will be after you though. 😂

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

SN knows better than you, as you said. 

I know and didn’t suggest otherwise. I’m quite comfortable with that fact. 

[karipidis]

Its interesting Shankland gives Clark the armband if he ever gets subbed off. Hes obviously a big character and bug part of the dressing room. 

[busbyfth]

16 minutes ago, Dazo said:

And thankfully but unsurprisingly that’s exactly what SN is doing and not getting all misty eyed over Gordon. A Gordon who actually want looking his very best prior to injury. SN ‘s job is to win football matches and we’ve done that very well recently, wtf would he risk that by dropping Zander. Madness. 

spot on .....though if we were say 13 points clear and four games left we might give CG these games so to give him a chance for the call up ? (or would that be too late ?)maybe just maybe if thats too late then we could give CG games when we are at home against the so called lesser teams ? 

[Taffin]

15 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Some fans won’t bother turning up (we see that every week with empty ST seats and there tends to be more empty seats the more meaningless the game). 
 

I’ll ask again - what is more important now - winning the cup or a few extra points in guaranteed 3rd and would you play Clark or Gordon in the semi?

 

 

I'd play Clark in the league, and Gordon in the cup...because it's worked absolutely fine up until this point.

 

There's some credence to the argument that giving Gordon game time may make him sharper for the cup games. It also risks him picking up an injury before the cup games. 

 

I just don't see any net benefit to tinkering about with something that's working fine. I'd like us to get as many points in the league as possible, so have a vested interest in who plays. You don't seem to care, so I don't get why you're fussed which keeper is in the sticks for those games.

[escobri]

So if Shankland gets injured and misses a game,which we win, he's not getting back in the team when fit? It's madness some people don't want our best players playing.

[Dazo]

2 minutes ago, busbyfth said:

spot on .....though if we were say 13 points clear and four games left we might give CG these games so to give him a chance for the call up ? (or would that be too late ?)maybe just maybe if thats too late then we could give CG games when we are at home against the so called lesser teams ? 

I think a lot will depend on how we get on in the semi regarding how many performances Gordon will get. I think you could fairly argue assuming 3rd is in the bag if we are in the cup final Gordon should play out the end of the season. 

[Dazo]

Just now, escobri said:

So if Shankland gets injured and misses a game,which we win, he's not getting back in the team when fit? It's madness some people don't want our best players playing.

Aye because that is exactly the same situation. 

[Bull's-eye]

6 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Aye because that is exactly the same situation. 

 

If your knowledge of football eminates from a computer game then thats how it works.

 

Back in the real world.

 

We have a very good goalkeeper playing extremely well keeping another good goalkeeper out of the team.

 

Great place to be imo.

[escobri]

5 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

If your knowledge of football eminates from a computer game then thats how it works.

 

Back in the real world.

 

We have a very good goalkeeper playing extremely well keeping another good goalkeeper out of the team.

 

Great place to be imo.

Clark is not very good, and Gordon is not just a good keeper, have a word with yersel man.

[Dazo]

7 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

If your knowledge of football eminates from a computer game then thats how it works.

 

Back in the real world.

 

We have a very good goalkeeper playing extremely well keeping another good goalkeeper out of the team.

 

Great place to be imo.

Think you’re being a little harsh on the PC Peps but you’re spot on. 

[Bull's-eye]

12 minutes ago, escobri said:

Clark is not very good, and Gordon is not just a good keeper, have a word with yersel man.

 

Clark is not very good yet gets selected to play at International level and is keeping CG out of the team due to brilliant performances.

 

Jeezo.

[spacerjoe]

35 minutes ago, escobri said:

So if Shankland gets injured and misses a game,which we win, he's not getting back in the team when fit? It's madness some people don't want our best players playing.

Right now Clark's record this season is better than Gordon's in the Prem since we came back up.

 

To put that into context it would be the same as Tagawa replacing an injured Shankland and then out scoring him for nearly a whole season. (CG hasn't been out for only one game, he's been out for year).

 

No manager is dropping Tagawa in that situation.

[Jim Panzee]

9 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Clark is not very good yet gets selected to play at International level and is keeping CG out of the team due to brilliant performances.

 

Jeezo.

lol. a prime example why I LOVE kickback 

[KyleLafferty]

Once 3rd is done. I’m sure Naisy will speak to Steve Clarke and he’ll tell him what Gordon and Clark have to do to both make the squad. I personally think Kelly will miss out.

[spacerjoe]

1 hour ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Clark has never performed at Gordon levels and never will.  He’s 32 now and only got 2 Scotland caps?  If he’d been performing at Gordon levels he’d have loads of Scotland caps but he’s been performing at St Johnstone levels.   It’s maybe unfair to constantly compare him to such a fantastic keeper  but that’s the reality and unfortunate position he finds himself in.  

The last couple of games he's made some wonderful saves that any keeper, Gordon included, would be proud of.

 

In any case, good defences are about much more than the individuals. He's built up a good rapport with those in front of him and it would be a risk to dismantle that when it's working very well.

[boag1874]

23 minutes ago, escobri said:

So if Shankland gets injured and misses a game,which we win, he's not getting back in the team when fit? It's madness some people don't want our best players playing.

Not even close to the same scenario. For one we can play more than one striker.

 

A better comparison would be would you drop Forrest for McKay as soon as he's fit? Forrest hasn't been as good as McKay can be when he's at his best and never will be, but he's still done very well and played a big part. For me McKay despite being the more talented player doesn't automatically get the start and it's Forrest's to lose.

[Cruickie's Moustache]

44 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

I think this is a point people are also missing. Gordon was looking very ordinary in the months leading up to his injury and had even made a few mistakes that cost us goals. People are pining over a version of Craig Gordon that we haven't seen since the 21/22 season, 2 years ago near enough with a horrendous leg break on top of that.

 

We all love Gordon, he's a Hearts and Scottish football legend and quite probably the finest keeper this country has ever produced, possibly the best it WILL ever produce. But lets not kid ourselves on, he's 41, he's maybe got a season or 2 left tops. Clark could be the no.1 for the next 4/5 seasons, he's been the second best goalie in the league behind only Jack Butland this season. He's playing because he deserves to, if he starts letting the pressure get to him then in comes CG.

Wholly agree. There seems to be a cult like following that believe Craig Gordon is back to his full powers and possibly even beyond what we have seen in the past based on a few games against lower league opposition.

He can somehow makes saves that Zander can only dream of but there is no concrete or current evidecne of this, other than looking at old Youtube vidoes.

 

I'd love nothing more than to see Craig perfroming at his best between the sticks for the Famous but until Zander has a howler I can't see how or why Naismith will drop him.

Naismith has a tricky job as he needs to try and keep both on side.

He needs to keep Zander sweet as he is most probably going to be our long term No 1.

But at the same time Naismith will have sympathies with wanting to get Craig to the Euros.

Best that can be done is, as others have suggested, give Craig more game time once it is felt 3rd is in the bag. 

 

[escobri]

14 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Clark is not very good yet gets selected to play at International level and is keeping CG out of the team due to brilliant performances.

 

Jeezo.

Clark is a decent keeper. I've been privileged to watch some very good keepers at Tynie, Gordon being the best. He should be in the team. 

[Thunder and Lightning]

33 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Clark is not very good yet gets selected to play at International level and is keeping CG out of the team due to brilliant performances.

 

Jeezo.

 

Exactly

 

If Craig was performing miracles in training then he would be in goals in the league.  Fact is Zander has been solid this season, and deserves his place.  Craig will have to wait.  Sad for him but that's how it goes.

 

 

[escobri]

13 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

 

Exactly

 

If Craig was performing miracles in training then he would be in goals in the league.  Fact is Zander has been solid this season, and deserves his place.  Craig will have to wait.  Sad for him but that's how it goes.

 

 

The cup is our only chance of silverware, so why risk it by bringing in a player that's not first choice and possibly a bit rusty?

Clark has been decent this season but will miss out on playing in a cup semi final and possibly a final due to the way Naismith has handled Gordon's comeback. The easy solution is play our best keeper for all games, and that's the living legend.

 

 

 

[Fozzyonthefence]

51 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

Not even close to the same scenario. For one we can play more than one striker.

 

A better comparison would be would you drop Forrest for McKay as soon as he's fit? Forrest hasn't been as good as McKay can be when he's at his best and never will be, but he's still done very well and played a big part. For me McKay despite being the more talented player doesn't automatically get the start and it's Forrest's to lose.

McKay won’t have to wait for Forrest to have a howler of a game to get his chance and he won’t have to wait as long as Gordon did either. 

[Turkishcap]

2 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

Am I missing something? There's only the RC game before International break

I meant Morton & County.

[Fozzyonthefence]

31 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

 

Exactly

 

If Craig was performing miracles in training then he would be in goals in the league.  Fact is Zander has been solid this season, and deserves his place.  Craig will have to wait.  Sad for him but that's how it goes.

 

 

Naismith has been suggesting CG has been doing just that in training though if you’ve heard his comments, on more than one occasion.  The fact is that is a very difficult situation to manage. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

58 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

The last couple of games he's made some wonderful saves that any keeper, Gordon included, would be proud of.

 

In any case, good defences are about much more than the individuals. He's built up a good rapport with those in front of him and it would be a risk to dismantle that when it's working very well.

He’s made same decent saves rather than world class ones, mostly saves you’d expect a keeper to save (the best one probably the penalty save at ER).  I doubt very much the defence feels as confident with with him flapping at cross balls compared to the calm of Gordon plucking them out the air (one criticism I have of Gordon though is I’d like to see him do it even more).  

[kingantti1874]

2 hours ago, Dazo said:

And thankfully but unsurprisingly that’s exactly what SN is doing and not getting all misty eyed over Gordon. A Gordon who actually want looking his very best prior to injury. SN ‘s job is to win football matches and we’ve done that very well recently, wtf would he risk that by dropping Zander. Madness. 

Gordon wasn’t looking his best before injury. 
 

dont make things up. Absolute nonsense 

[Scott Monument]

Craig Gordon should get more league games before the semi final if the manager doesn’t trust him for that then why use him for one of the biggest games of the season at hampden

[gorgierulesapply88]

7 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Naismith in his mind is picking his best keeper & that's really all that matters. 

 

Call it a hunch, but I reckon he's probably in a better position to judge who's better for the team.

 

Never ceases to amaze me the amount of goalkeeping experts we have on JKB, the last pick in the whole of Scotland must be Hearts supporters. 

Highest I played was Lowland league, what do I know about goalkeeping tho..

[boag1874]

7 minutes ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

Highest I played was Lowland league, what do I know about goalkeeping tho..

Probably know a fair bit less about anything in professional football than our ex Everton, 51x Scotland capped, won every Scottish major honour as a player and played in the champions league manager who has us on course for our best season in well over a decade with Clark in goals

[escobri]

3 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

If your knowledge of football eminates from a computer game then thats how it works.

 

Back in the real world.

 

We have a very good goalkeeper playing extremely well keeping another good goalkeeper out of the team.

 

Great place to be imo.

How did I miss this 🤣 yes I obtained my opinions on Scotlands arguably best goalkeeper from a computer game, what a tit 🤣

[Dazo]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

Gordon wasn’t looking his best before injury. 
 

dont make things up. Absolute nonsense 

Why would I make it up ? 😂

 

You don’t have to agree, he certainly wasn’t at the levels that appear to be giving some of you relentless wet dreams. 

[Thunder and Lightning]

15 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Clark has never performed at Gordon levels and never will.  He’s 32 now and only got 2 Scotland caps?  If he’d been performing at Gordon levels he’d have loads of Scotland caps but he’s been performing at St Johnstone levels.   It’s maybe unfair to constantly compare him to such a fantastic keeper  but that’s the reality and unfortunate position he finds himself in.  

How many clean sheet has Craig had this season? 

 

Oh that's right zander that's been killing it 

[OTT]

I trust Naismiths judgement. He's earned that with how solid his team under his management have been.

 

Craig Gordon is my footballing hero, and I hate seeing him on the bench but this has brought the best out of Zander. Net result is that the team is stronger as a result. 

 

No complaints there at all. 

[escobri]

So after yesterday who's in goals next week?.

[Jim_Duncan]

1 minute ago, escobri said:

So after yesterday who's in goals next week?.

Harry Stone

[escobri]

1 minute ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Harry Stone

Have 3 keepers from the same team ever received a winners medal?

[fabienleclerq]

Rotating keepers isn't for me, especially for sentiment.  Hearts should play every game to win not to ensure someone gets game time.

 

 

[kingantti1874]

7 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

Rotating keepers isn't for me, especially for sentiment.  Hearts should play every game to win not to ensure someone gets game time.

 

 

 

we can rotate other players so why not keeper? I get in that position clubs traditionally have a . #1 and #2 with one clearly better than the but that’s not the case at hearts is it.

 

We are not weaker with Craig in goals. Not a chance so it’s not sentiment . Naisy has done the right thing by both keepers, Craig only lost his place due to a horror injury NOT through form or ability.  Hes worked unbelievably hard and deserves game time. 

 

Craig will get the semi and Zander will be back in for the league games I’ve no doubt

Edited April 14 by kingantti1874

[tcjambo]

People are comparing a goalkeeper who has played nearly every game with one who has only recently recovered from injury. CG needs games. Zander is good but a fit CG is in a different league. 2 or 3 games and CG will be back firing on all cylinders.

[jr ewing]

Craig, no doubt. 

[gjcc]

Zander. 
 

Craig likely given a start today so there’s less “controversy” in that decision given Craig has played the earlier rounds of the cup. 

[Graham Thomson]

The idea of a goalkeeper for cup games and the other for league games is fine until you get to the semi final against one of the old firm

Especially when Craig looked rusty and shaky yesterday after so few games this season

Imagine the scenario if Craig has a nightmare and we lose, that would be awful for him and the club

I know the decision has been made although I have not been able to keep tabs on what SN said about Craig playing yesterday. 

It's a gamble I just hope it pays off.

[fabienleclerq]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

we can rotate other players so why not keeper? I get in that position clubs traditionally have a . #1 and #2 with one clearly better than the but that’s not the case at hearts is it.

 

We are not weaker with Craig in goals. Not a chance so it’s not sentiment . Naisy has done the right thing by both keepers, Craig only lost his place due to a horror injury NOT through form or ability.  Hes worked unbelievably hard and deserves game time. 

 

Craig will get the semi and Zander will be back in for the league games I’ve no doubt

 

It's not the same as other positions, you need consistency in certain positions for me.

[tiger Rudi]

1 hour ago, tcjambo said:

People are comparing a goalkeeper who has played nearly every game with one who has only recently recovered from injury. CG needs games. Zander is good but a fit CG is in a different league. 2 or 3 games and CG will be back firing on all cylinders.

Your last sentence is the crucial one. He's not got 2 or 3 games to get back up to speed has he? We have a semi final on Sunday, arguably the biggest game of the season. I hope this doesn't backfire on us, a rusty Craig Gordon needs to have a stormer. 

If this was Naismith's plan all along CG should have been back in goal weeks ago.