Gordon v Zander idea.

[gorgierulesapply88]

Many people offering their views have little no goalkeeping knowledge.

 

Craig Gordon at 41 years old, is better than Clark. Scary isn't it?

 

Should this be his last season, I'd love to see him take the reigns from Gallagher. 

[DS98]

9 hours ago, tiger Rudi said:

Your last sentence is the crucial one. He's not got 2 or 3 games to get back up to speed has he? We have a semi final on Sunday, arguably the biggest game of the season. I hope this doesn't backfire on us, a rusty Craig Gordon needs to have a stormer. 

If this was Naismith's plan all along CG should have been back in goal weeks ago. 

This is Naismith’s plan and it’s what’s going to happen. I do agree with with the last bit. He should have had at least the st Mirren game too. 
 

For those saying Zander, I completely get but he played in the last semi-final against Rangers. He was fully match fit and how did that go? Awful. 
 

We will need ‘match-winning’ saves on Sunday, no doubt about it. I know who I’d rather have to do that. 

[upgotheheads]

Craig made a mistake at the first goal when the ball bounced high for him so that he couldn't make a good clearance, but the decision to come out was correct.

The second goal was down to poor defending, not poor goalkeeping. He had a good game apart from that one incident, and Naismith's decision to rotate goalies between the Cup and League is the right one imo. The Cup is a luxury, but the League is the bread and butter, and financially over the weekend the most important game for us might well be the Aberdeen/Celtic game, we need Celtic to win that one.

[TexasAndy]

4 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

Craig made a mistake at the first goal when the ball bounced high for him so that he couldn't make a good clearance, but the decision to come out was correct.

The second goal was down to poor defending, not poor goalkeeping. He had a good game apart from that one incident, and Naismith's decision to rotate goalies between the Cup and League is the right one imo. The Cup is a luxury, but the League is the bread and butter, and financially over the weekend the most important game for us might well be the Aberdeen/Celtic game, we need Celtic to win that one.

Spot on.  He made one error of judgement.  No mentions of the great save from Kelly.  One guy said to me in the gents "Gordon's finished".  Unreal and fickle beyond believe.  

[busbyfth]

1 hour ago, upgotheheads said:

Craig made a mistake at the first goal when the ball bounced high for him so that he couldn't make a good clearance, but the decision to come out was correct.

The second goal was down to poor defending, not poor goalkeeping. He had a good game apart from that one incident, and Naismith's decision to rotate goalies between the Cup and League is the right one imo. The Cup is a luxury, but the League is the bread and butter, and financially over the weekend the most important game for us might well be the Aberdeen/Celtic game, we need Celtic to win that one.

Sorry but the cup is certainly not a luxury, as its one of only two realistic chances at winning something. Totally correct re the league being financial bread and butter, but as football success is also paramount, and as important as financial clout (they go hand in hand)  then many could and do argue that the scottish cup is the most important part of our season. 

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, TexasAndy said:

Spot on.  He made one error of judgement.  No mentions of the great save from Kelly.  One guy said to me in the gents "Gordon's finished".  Unreal and fickle beyond believe.  

Hopefully you laughed at him 

[I P Knightley]

1 hour ago, upgotheheads said:

Craig made a mistake at the first goal when the ball bounced high for him so that he couldn't make a good clearance, but the decision to come out was correct.

 

Given the similarities with the incident where he broke his leg, I wondered whether he wasn't just a wee bit hesitant going for that ball. Not helped by the height of the bounce. Overall, I'd have questioned the judgement of going for it, given the blusteriness of the day and the difficulty of judging the ball's movement well. 

[busbyfth]

On 15/03/2024 at 11:28, boag1874 said:

I think this is a point people are also missing. Gordon was looking very ordinary in the months leading up to his injury and had even made a few mistakes that cost us goals. People are pining over a version of Craig Gordon that we haven't seen since the 21/22 season, 2 years ago near enough with a horrendous leg break on top of that.

 

We all love Gordon, he's a Hearts and Scottish football legend and quite probably the finest keeper this country has ever produced, possibly the best it WILL ever produce. But lets not kid ourselves on, he's 41, he's maybe got a season or 2 left tops. Clark could be the no.1 for the next 4/5 seasons, he's been the second best goalie in the league behind only Jack Butland this season. He's playing because he deserves to, if he starts letting the pressure get to him then in comes CG.

Totally correct as CG himself admitted to costing us 4-5 goals with balls ups within the part season prior to his leg break. (This was ironic, as the season before, some could argue it was his best ever - if you take saves made that others simply couldn't make, compared against goals cost by mistakes which only happened once....a quite extraordinary ratio) People on here sometimes blame CGs injury conveniently forgetting that he would have been dropped at any other club with the season he was having prior to the break/s. Players have bad phases - happens to everyone 

[Taffin]

Clark's been dealt a very rough hand imo, unless of course he starts against Rangers.

 

[been here before]

Personally Id play Clark in the semi final.

 

[Pasquale for King]

They should be sharing the remaining games. As for next season you wait to see what happens as neither will get a decent break. 
There’s been rumours of interest in Clark so we may need another body in anyway, McGovern should be gone too hopefully. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, busbyfth said:

Totally correct as CG himself admitted to costing us 4-5 goals with balls ups within the part season prior to his leg break. (This was ironic, as the season before, some could argue it was his best ever - if you take saves made that others simply couldn't make, compared against goals cost by mistakes which only happened once....a quite extraordinary ratio) People on here sometimes blame CGs injury conveniently forgetting that he would have been dropped at any other club with the season he was having prior to the break/s. Players have bad phases - happens to everyone 

Clark has cost us numerous goals in the last year and kept his place. 

[Pasquale for King]

9 hours ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

Many people offering their views have little no goalkeeping knowledge.

 

Craig Gordon at 41 years old, is better than Clark. Scary isn't it?

 

Should this be his last season, I'd love to see him take the reigns from Gallagher. 

Spot on

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, DS98 said:

This is Naismith’s plan and it’s what’s going to happen. I do agree with with the last bit. He should have had at least the st Mirren game too. 
 

For those saying Zander, I completely get but he played in the last semi-final against Rangers. He was fully match fit and how did that go? Awful. 
 

We will need ‘match-winning’ saves on Sunday, no doubt about it. I know who I’d rather have to do that. 

Exactly 

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

Craig made a mistake at the first goal when the ball bounced high for him so that he couldn't make a good clearance, but the decision to come out was correct.

The second goal was down to poor defending, not poor goalkeeping. He had a good game apart from that one incident, and Naismith's decision to rotate goalies between the Cup and League is the right one imo. The Cup is a luxury, but the League is the bread and butter, and financially over the weekend the most important game for us might well be the Aberdeen/Celtic game, we need Celtic to win that one.

Definitely 👍🏽 

[kingantti1874]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

Clark's been dealt a very rough hand imo, unless of course he starts against Rangers.

 

well he defo won’t because naisy said he wouldn’t.  He will of course be back for the majority of league games following the semi

[The Gorgie]

If we win on Sunday, I think Gordon starts the rest of the league games so he's in peak condition for the final.

Edited April 15 by The Gorgie

[Taffin]

8 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

well he defo won’t because naisy said he wouldn’t.  He will of course be back for the majority of league games following the semi

 

Being dealt a rough hand then in that case. He's been really good for us this season imo.

[kingantti1874]

3 hours ago, busbyfth said:

Totally correct as CG himself admitted to costing us 4-5 goals with balls ups within the part season prior to his leg break. (This was ironic, as the season before, some could argue it was his best ever - if you take saves made that others simply couldn't make, compared against goals cost by mistakes which only happened once....a quite extraordinary ratio) People on here sometimes blame CGs injury conveniently forgetting that he would have been dropped at any other club with the season he was having prior to the break/s. Players have bad phases - happens to everyone 

absolute crap of the highest order 🤣🤣🤣 I don’t recall a single post or opinion saying that Craig Gordon should be dropped at the time, he made a couple of small errors ( by his standards) and Zander has made more than a few  of greater significance since. Though I’m not for one minute suggesting he should lose his place. Zander is still the #1 

 

why are we revising history now to support our arguement ? 

Edited April 15 by kingantti1874

[kingantti1874]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Being dealt a rough hand then in that case. He's been really good for us this season imo.

he has. Was Craig not dealt a rough hand as well though? Despite some revisionist nonsense he lost his place through a horror injury. Not form.

[gnasher75]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

Clark's been dealt a very rough hand imo, unless of course he starts against Rangers.

 

 

Clark would have been warming the bench for the last year and a half if Gordon hadn't got injured.  He's had the unexpected bonus of playing every match in that period that was never on the cards when he signed.   Continuing to play the league games when Gordon was back fit was another bonus which you could say Clark has earned.

 

For me, having two of the best keepers in the country is fantastic and the standard Hearts want to be at.  What a difference from the days of Zlamal, Pereira and Doyle rotating based on which of them had been the least worst in the previous games.

 

Gordon has been given the chance to play in the Cup run and has earned the right to play in the semi final based on his performances in the earlier rounds.  This is what big clubs do - find a way to keep two top keepers happy while competing for the no.1 jersey.
 

 

[Taffin]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

he has. Was Craig not dealt a rough hand as well though? Despite some revisionist nonsense he lost his place through a horror injury. Not form.

 

I don't think so, no. It was just sheer bad luck.

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, gnasher75 said:

 

Clark would have been warming the bench for the last year and a half if Gordon hadn't got injured.  He's had the unexpected bonus of playing every match in that period that was never on the cards when he signed.   Continuing to play the league games when Gordon was back fit was another bonus which you could say Clark has earned.

 

For me, having two of the best keepers in the country is fantastic and the standard Hearts want to be at.  What a difference from the days of Zlamal, Pereira and Doyle rotating based on which of them had been the least worst in the previous games.

 

Gordon has been given the chance to play in the Cup run and has earned the right to play in the semi final based on his performances in the earlier rounds.  This is what big clubs do - find a way to keep two top keepers happy while competing for the no.1 jersey.
 

 

 

Whilst I've never actually read SN confirm that, I do agree. I just personally feel Clark hadn't done enough wrong to merit losing his place in the league. Now that we aren't doing the league and cup split and Gordon performance at the weekend I feel Clark's hat absolutely deserves to be in the ring for the cup game too.

 

It's Ramsdale/Raya vibes for me.

Edited April 15 by Taffin

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

I don't think so, no. It was just sheer bad luck.

I don’t think bad luck quite sums it up tbh.  Horrific. And he’s done unbelievably well to get back and in my opinion deserves game time.

 

I don’t get this thing that you have one keeper and that’s it, very old fashioned. Makes little to no sense at all unless you have a clear #1 and #2. we are not the first team to play different keepers in different competitions. 

[kingantti1874]

7 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Whilst I've never actually read SN confirm that, I do agree. I just personally feel Clark hadn't done enough wrong to merit losing his place in the league. Now that we aren't doing the league and cup split and Gordon performance at the weekend I feel Clark's hat absolutely deserves to be in the ring for the cup game too.

 

It's Ramsdale/Raya vibes for me.

he hasn’t played in the cup so why does he deserve the semi? He didn’t cover himself in glory in the last semi which people seem to have forgotten. 

 

or at rangers at home 

 

or at rangers away 

 

I like Zander btw. But he should be open to sharing the role for the next 18 months then it will be all

his .  Am I’m sure he is fine with that

Edited April 15 by kingantti1874

[gnasher75]

3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Whilst I've never actually read SN confirm that, I do agree. I just personally feel Clark hadn't done enough wrong to merit losing his place in the league. Now that we aren't doing the league and cup split and Gordon performance at the weekend I feel Clark's hat absolutely deserves to be in the ring for the cup game too.

 

It's Ramsdale/Raya vibes for me.

 

Pretty sure Naismith said Gordon got the Livi game to get him up to speed for the semi final.  I guess Clark will play at least some of the remaining league games.  If we get to the final, Gordon might get another one or two to keep him sharp.  

Personally I'd like to see Gordon play for the rest of the season as I still think he should be Scotland no.1 for the Euros.

 

Clark just needs to bide his time and he'll be our no.1 in a year or two anyway.

[Pasquale for King]

32 minutes ago, The Gorgie said:

If we win on Sunday, I think Gordon starts the rest of the league games so he's in peak condition for the final.

Good point, a great dilemma to have. 

[Pasquale for King]

17 minutes ago, gnasher75 said:

 

Pretty sure Naismith said Gordon got the Livi game to get him up to speed for the semi final.  I guess Clark will play at least some of the remaining league games.  If we get to the final, Gordon might get another one or two to keep him sharp.  

Personally I'd like to see Gordon play for the rest of the season as I still think he should be Scotland no.1 for the Euros.

 

Clark just needs to bide his time and he'll be our no.1 in a year or two anyway.

I agree but I can’t see Clark being happy at having to bide his time tbh. 

[gorgierulesapply88]

39 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Being dealt a rough hand then in that case. He's been really good for us this season imo.

He's very calamitous, thumbles regularly. I've yet to see him pull of a wonder save, he stood and watched both Dhanda and Taverniers free-kick as if he doesn't believe in his own ability to make the save.

 

I'd love to see us sign a new number one, with Harry Stone again progressing further and pressing on after that.

[Jodami]

I would start Clark on Sunday, the goals apart Gordon looked very shaky at a few cross balls and he hasn't played with some of our defence that often. There was a situation just before the first goal on Saturday when Kent headed the ball back blindly to the keeper and the Livi forward was in behind. Simple shout from the keeper would have told him to head it out. I think Naismith will definitely start Gordon but I have to be honest, I fear he has a a crucial mistake in him.

[Percival King]

21 minutes ago, gnasher75 said:

 

Pretty sure Naismith said Gordon got the Livi game to get him up to speed for the semi final.  I guess Clark will play at least some of the remaining league games.  If we get to the final, Gordon might get another one or two to keep him sharp.  

Personally I'd like to see Gordon play for the rest of the season as I still think he should be Scotland no.1 for the Euros.

 

Clark just needs to bide his time and he'll be our no.1 in a year or two anyway.

I think Clark would be entitled to be more than a bit unhappy if that is how it plays out. He's made mistakes this season but so has every keeper and he's definitely played his part in our success so to ditch him now in favour of a veteran who's played 4 or so games in 15 months seems harsh (and may impact on his Euro 24 prospects, not Naismith's concern though).

For me, comes down to who seems  safest option today (regardless of who that might have been in 2022) and I'm leaning towards Clark, but it's a better situation than having to pick the best of two average keepers.

[KyleLafferty]

Clark is the league goalie. Gordon is the cup goalie. Gordon played on Saturday so he’s match practise for Sunday. 
 

After Sunday it will be back to Zander. If we are still in the cup it will be Gordon 2 games before cup final.

 

If we are out the cup it will be zander until 3rd is mathematically done. 

[H2]

46 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Whilst I've never actually read SN confirm that, I do agree. I just personally feel Clark hadn't done enough wrong to merit losing his place in the league. Now that we aren't doing the league and cup split and Gordon performance at the weekend I feel Clark's hat absolutely deserves to be in the ring for the cup game too.

 

It's Ramsdale/Raya vibes for me.

You don't have to do anything wrong to lose your place, If there is a better player in the squad in your position, the better player takes priority. 

[Taffin]

44 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

he hasn’t played in the cup so why does he deserve the semi? He didn’t cover himself in glory in the last semi which people seem to have forgotten. 

 

Gordon hadn't played in the league, why did he deserve the weekend?

 

44 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

 

or at rangers at home 

 

or at rangers away 

 

I like Zander btw. But he should be open to sharing the role for the next 18 months then it will be all

his .  Am I’m sure he is fine with that

 

I like Gordon, but folk are getting all dewy eyed about it imo.

[HopeDiouf]

5 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

Clark is the league goalie. Gordon is the cup goalie. Gordon played on Saturday so he’s match practise for Sunday. 
 

After Sunday it will be back to Zander. If we are still in the cup it will be Gordon 2 games before cup final.

 

If we are out the cup it will be zander until 3rd is mathematically done. 

Indeed.  This was all agreed a while ago, and Naisy said they had a chat and all were happy with it.  I'm amazed at how many Hearts fans are apparently not aware of this.

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, H2 said:

You don't have to do anything wrong to lose your place, If there is a better player in the squad in your position, the better player takes priority. 

 

Again, no issue with that...but it's not what we've done, is it? Gordon has been back for for a while. Also, is Gordon better? 

 

I know Clark's had his hiccups but he's also been really solid in the main and part of a really solid defensive unit in the main. We've conceded 1 goal a game with him in the sticks same as we've seen from Gordon (against much lesser opposition)

[Taffin]

4 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

Indeed.  This was all agreed a while ago, and Naisy said they had a chat and all were happy with it.  I'm amazed at how many Hearts fans are apparently not aware of this.

 

I must have missed Clark starting at the weekend. 

 

Joking aside, whilst it's not my personal preference I've no issue with cup and league goalies...but I think it brings little benefit when you then abandon that at a key juncture and start chopping and changing.

Edited April 15 by Taffin

[Fozzyonthefence]

15 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

 

If we are out the cup it will be zander until 3rd is mathematically done. 

This gets brought up a lot but I don’t see what relevance it has?  3rd is done anyway, even if I played in goal!

[HopeDiouf]

6 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I must have missed Clark starting at the weekend. 

 

Joking aside, whilst it's not my personal preference I've no issue with cup and league goalies...but I think it brings little benefit when you then abandon that at a key juncture and start chopping and changing.

Don't think it's been abandoned at all.  Clark has played in the league, CG in the cup.  As they agreed back in January.  The way it's panned out, there was an opportunity to give CG a warm up game this week as the livi game wasn't as vital as it might have been.  Given how it went first 20 minutes, was probably good to get that out the way at the weekend.   Clark didn't look upset and I think folks are making an issue where there isn't one.

[Dazo]

20 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

Clark is the league goalie. Gordon is the cup goalie. Gordon played on Saturday so he’s match practise for Sunday. 
 

A proving a good decision as Gordon clearly needs it. 

[Gordons left glove]

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Jodami said:

I would start Clark on Sunday, the goals apart Gordon looked very shaky at a few cross balls and he hasn't played with some of our defence that often. There was a situation just before the first goal on Saturday when Kent headed the ball back blindly to the keeper and the Livi forward was in behind. Simple shout from the keeper would have told him to head it out. I think Naismith will definitely start Gordon but I have to be honest, I fear he has a a crucial mistake in him.

Yeah because Clark is great on crosses and coming for balls over the tol. Gordon is also vocal so no doubt would’ve shouted.
Dont blame Gordon for Kent and Atkinson having poor first half’s on Sunday, the former also gave away the ball with a wayward header that Kilmarnock scored from and looks a bit shaky himself since returning from injury. 
Hes also the only defender who hasn’t played with Gordon dozens of times. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, KyleLafferty said:

Clark is the league goalie. Gordon is the cup goalie. Gordon played on Saturday so he’s match practise for Sunday. 
 

After Sunday it will be back to Zander. If we are still in the cup it will be Gordon 2 games before cup final.

 

If we are out the cup it will be zander until 3rd is mathematically done. 

Is that true?

Seems to me that Gordon played in the league two days ago before 3rd was confirmed 🤪?!?!

[KyleLafferty]

3 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

This gets brought up a lot but I don’t see what relevance it has?  3rd is done anyway, even if I played in goal!

Probably to appease both them for their chances for Euro 2024. Clark will want to keep playing. He also is close to the clean sheet record, 3 off Butland.

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

Probably to appease both them for their chances for Euro 2024. Clark will want to keep playing. He also is close to the clean sheet record, 3 off Butland.

Yes I get that but that’s got nothing to do with waiting on 3rd to be mathematically done and dusted.  It’s like we’re considering risking a rookie 16 year old or something instead of bringing back our greatest ever keeper.  CG may or may not still be better than ZC but we have to find out before next season starts. 

[busbyfth]

20 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

absolute crap of the highest order 🤣🤣🤣 I don’t recall a single post or opinion saying that Craig Gordon should be dropped at the time, he made a couple of small errors ( by his standards) and Zander has made more than a few  of greater significance since. Though I’m not for one minute suggesting he should lose his place. Zander is still the #1 

 

why are we revising history now to support our arguement ? 

You have a short or limited convenient memory - CG is the better keeper but rose coloured glasses should not be worn. 

[OTT]

On 15/04/2024 at 10:24, upgotheheads said:

Craig made a mistake at the first goal when the ball bounced high for him so that he couldn't make a good clearance, but the decision to come out was correct.

The second goal was down to poor defending, not poor goalkeeping. He had a good game apart from that one incident, and Naismith's decision to rotate goalies between the Cup and League is the right one imo. The Cup is a luxury, but the League is the bread and butter, and financially over the weekend the most important game for us might well be the Aberdeen/Celtic game, we need Celtic to win that one.

 

Gordons mistake was a half measure. If he's going to come out clear the ball, CLEAR IT. Trying to cushion it down for another player was the error IMO - coming out for it was entirely correct as you point out. No half measures! 

 

Not going to hold it against him, he'll know for next time. 

[kingantti1874]

27 minutes ago, busbyfth said:

You have a short or limited convenient memory - CG is the better keeper but rose coloured glasses should not be worn. 

Genuinely do not recall ever thinking Craig should be dropped or was on the way down. Genuinely don’t remember anyone on here or in the real world suggesting such a thing. 

[The Gorgie]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

Genuinely do not recall ever thinking Craig should be dropped or was on the way down. Genuinely don’t remember anyone on here or in the real world suggesting such a thing. 

Tbh I said he looked like he needed a rest after his kid was born as thats when his form started to dip. 

[Benny Klack]

On 15/04/2024 at 13:51, Pasquale for King said:

Clark has cost us numerous goals in the last year and kept his place. 

I think when he did make errors Gordon was nowhere near the first team. When Gordon was back fit, Clark noticeably improved - not sure if that was just coincidence or not.