Bongo 1874 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) I want to keep this run going as most people do, if selected let's get behind players that aren't doing so well. Encourage them to press and be active,being a player,when you are going through bad moments,you guys can be the difference from changing a negative into a positive,you may ask how? Because a player that's being encouraged will want to run through walls for the fans and the team. I have no doubt about any of these guys ability,but as i said not just these guys,Encourage players to press teams work hard off the ball,and when they do praise them. There isn't a support like you guys,when you get fully behind the team. So give yourselves a massive pat on the back,you have been Great this Season. Just like I'm asking from the players, can you the fans, give them that wee bit more 😀. You absolute Legends 😀. Edited February 13 by Bongo 1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerryjambo41 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 We seen the difference in Toby Sibbick last season when the fans began singing his name 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay James Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 100% Ive never understood Hearts fans who slag/boo our own players either at games or on social media. It has the opposite impact intended and players lose confidence. Just recently, Naisy had to ask fans to lay off Hoff. It’s nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRightPeg Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Just now, Finlay James said: 100% Ive never understood Hearts fans who slag/boo our own players either at games or on social media. It has the opposite impact intended and players lose confidence. Just recently, Naisy had to ask fans to lay off Hoff. It’s nonsense. Look what happened as a result. Ironically, in his best form since that night with the coaches where Naismith urged patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopeDiouf Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Naismith regularly mentions the demands at the club. I think it's good we have that demand, and players are quickly told when performances not up to standard. I don't think removing that demand would improve performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmfc_liam06 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Sorry, Sibbick has had plenty chances. He's just not good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drylaw Hearts Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 I will gladly encourage them to leave in the next transfer window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dsjambo Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 I have never been one to boo our own players, but fans are fans all over. Players go from heroes to zeros so quickly, yes including on here, it’s unbelievable. This is nothing new, I remember getting involved with other fans that were slating our players a few times. One of them on the receiving end was a certain Craig Levein who was Scotland’s CH at the time. I can’t see this ever changing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mintmyster Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Stood in front of a group of 3/4 at Airdrie that crucified Tagawa the second he came on to the pitch. I find it strange. I qualify that by saying inside I thought myself he looked lost, like a fish out of water but deep down I want him to do well. But I wouldn’t stand there a shout my lungs out at the poor guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRummy Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Good post Bongo. A lot of the criticism of individuals is fair and valid but some of it is over the top. I used to think it was something to do with looking for someone to blame after a bad result but it's clearly not that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyCant Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 45 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said: I want to keep this run going as most people do, if selected let's get behind players that aren't doing so well. Encourage them to press and be active,being a player,when you are going through bad moments,you guys can be the difference from changing a negative into a positive,you may ask how? Because a player that's being encouraged will want to run through walls for the fans and the team. I have no doubt about any of these guys ability,but as i said not just these guys,Encourage players to press teams work hard off the ball,and when they do praise them. There isn't a support like you guys,when you get fully behind the team. So give yourselves a massive pat on the back,you have been Great this Season. Just like I'm asking from the players, can you the fans, give them that wee bit more 😀. You absolute Legends 😀. Did you not spend the latter part of last season, the whole summer, and the early part of this season, slaughtering 3 players you assured us weren’t worthy of the jersey, Sibbick being one of those ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selkirkhmfc1874 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 When any player pulls on the famous hmfc Jersey they'll always have my 100% support but will be no surprise if all 3 sold in the summer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 16 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said: Sorry, Sibbick has had plenty chances. He's just not good enough. As a CB - agreed. I think he has very obvious skills - he's good on the ball, he can dribble, pick a pass and is athletic. I think someone described him on another thread as what a football SHOULD look like (in terms of raw materials). The problem is, he doesn't have the composure or concentration to play CB because any error is a goal (or as close as can be). We've saw that against Hibs this season, Rangers last season and likely a slew of less high profile errors in between. Jumping back to the Hibs game, I thought he did a fine job at RB/RWB until Naismith shunted him across to CB to avoid putting Halliday on when Kingsley went off. I think there is a player there, just not at CB, certainly not at this level. I think the point should be put to him that if he wants to succeed, he needs to try another position, like CM or RB. Peter Haring IIRC was signed as a CB but ended up doing a great job for us at CM. I want Toby to succeed, I really do. But he's not reliable enough to play CB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DG_HMFC Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 I really feel for Tagawa. I can see he has quality, he's shown it already this season. He's massively playing within himself just now and confidence is low. Naismith will continue to work on him because he could be very good. Flip side, he might just never settle, but he needs all the encouragement he can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_A wehatethehibs Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Sibbick is finished at Hearts, I think that’s abundantly clear, when the manager is putting Kingsley ahead of him at RCB at times when we need cover. Now 2 RBs ahead of him as well. And in midfield, with the numerous options we have, no chance for Sibbick there. Naismith clearly seen enough of Toby at CB last season to know, same as many of us know, the lads just not a Hearts standard of defender. Manager just clearly doesn’t trust him. You look at Frankie Kent’s previous career, that’s what Toby needs to be doing now, playing games at League 2 type level. Frankie had 3 seasons in League 2 developing his game at that age. Hearts are just too big a club for Toby at this stage in his career. For us, Lewis Neilson will come in as the CB prospect and will need game time so Toby will move on in summer IMO Oda and Tagawa I’m happy to give more time, it’s a big culture shock for them and I think they’re projects worth continuing because we can get quality in it’s just about integrating. As a club we can only learn that knowledge by working with these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_A wehatethehibs Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 minute ago, OTT said: As a CB - agreed. I think he has very obvious skills - he's good on the ball, he can dribble, pick a pass and is athletic. I think someone described him on another thread as what a football SHOULD look like (in terms of raw materials). The problem is, he doesn't have the composure or concentration to play CB because any error is a goal (or as close as can be). We've saw that against Hibs this season, Rangers last season and likely a slew of less high profile errors in between. Jumping back to the Hibs game, I thought he did a fine job at RB/RWB until Naismith shunted him across to CB to avoid putting Halliday on when Kingsley went off. I think there is a player there, just not at CB, certainly not at this level. I think the point should be put to him that if he wants to succeed, he needs to try another position, like CM or RB. Peter Haring IIRC was signed as a CB but ended up doing a great job for us at CM. I want Toby to succeed, I really do. But he's not reliable enough to play CB. We’ve got 2 RBs and about 6 midfielders who are better than him at those roles, so that’s not going to happen. Can maybe look to change position at his next club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmfc_liam06 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 minutes ago, OTT said: As a CB - agreed. I think he has very obvious skills - he's good on the ball, he can dribble, pick a pass and is athletic. I think someone described him on another thread as what a football SHOULD look like (in terms of raw materials). The problem is, he doesn't have the composure or concentration to play CB because any error is a goal (or as close as can be). We've saw that against Hibs this season, Rangers last season and likely a slew of less high profile errors in between. Jumping back to the Hibs game, I thought he did a fine job at RB/RWB until Naismith shunted him across to CB to avoid putting Halliday on when Kingsley went off. I think there is a player there, just not at CB, certainly not at this level. I think the point should be put to him that if he wants to succeed, he needs to try another position, like CM or RB. Peter Haring IIRC was signed as a CB but ended up doing a great job for us at CM. I want Toby to succeed, I really do. But he's not reliable enough to play CB. He's really not reliable in any position, I just don't think he's good enough for us. @A_A wehatethehibs nails it above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 They are not 5 year old shy lassies saying a few lines in a nativity play on stage. This is big boy, top level stuff. If anyone is not performing, regardless of who they are then they should be told in no uncertain terms to buck up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 You just to look at Toby's performance v Hibs at ER last season or his first ever game for us v Rangers to know the boy has ability. He rarely shows it nowadays so the disgruntled fans will soon be heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Encouraging players you say? That's not the JKB way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_A wehatethehibs Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Just now, i8hibsh said: You just to look at Toby's performance v Hibs at ER last season or his first ever game for us v Rangers to know the boy has ability. He rarely shows it nowadays so the disgruntled fans will soon be heard. 2 games. What’s your thoughts on the other 60 he has played for us? Including every minute of last seasons implosion. Naismiths first act was to launch Toby and get Kent in there. Your comment reminds me a bit of folk saying “there’s a player in there” with Euan Henderson because he had 1 good game and goal against alloa. But then they don’t mention the 50 other games where he done nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye1874 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 35 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said: Sorry, Sibbick has had plenty chances. He's just not good enough. As much as I like this thread - I have to agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 You never know when you might need a player, they all play for Hearts and need supported Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rabbit Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 17 minutes ago, JimmyCant said: Did you not spend the latter part of last season, the whole summer, and the early part of this season, slaughtering 3 players you assured us weren’t worthy of the jersey, Sibbick being one of those ? Yeah, strange individual. Comes across as a parody account. Pretty sure it was Forrest, Grant and Halliday he was trying to boot out the door. Now he’s telling others to give people a chance 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRightPeg Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 13 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said: Sibbick is finished at Hearts, I think that’s abundantly clear, when the manager is putting Kingsley ahead of him at RCB at times when we need cover. Now 2 RBs ahead of him as well. And in midfield, with the numerous options we have, no chance for Sibbick there. Naismith clearly seen enough of Toby at CB last season to know, same as many of us know, the lads just not a Hearts standard of defender. Manager just clearly doesn’t trust him. You look at Frankie Kent’s previous career, that’s what Toby needs to be doing now, playing games at League 2 type level. Frankie had 3 seasons in League 2 developing his game at that age. Hearts are just too big a club for Toby at this stage in his career. For us, Lewis Neilson will come in as the CB prospect and will need game time so Toby will move on in summer IMO Oda and Tagawa I’m happy to give more time, it’s a big culture shock for them and I think they’re projects worth continuing because we can get quality in it’s just about integrating. As a club we can only learn that knowledge by working with these guys. Fair points. Also worth remembering that Naisy played & trained with Sibbick, albeit very briefly pre covid shut down so he knows better than anyone what he can and can't do. I personally think Sibbick's race is run here. He's never been able to nail a first choice position down, and whilst not a terrible player, others we have at the club make him look quite average. I'd be selling in the summer, making room for Neilson coming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAndy Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 I think despite the noise on social media around those who are under performing the majority of fans give them encouragement when they are called in to the team. As long as they are wearing the colours they will always get my support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRightPeg Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 23 minutes ago, JimmyCant said: Did you not spend the latter part of last season, the whole summer, and the early part of this season, slaughtering 3 players you assured us weren’t worthy of the jersey, Sibbick being one of those ? He did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 23 minutes ago, JimmyCant said: Did you not spend the latter part of last season, the whole summer, and the early part of this season, slaughtering 3 players you assured us weren’t worthy of the jersey, Sibbick being one of those ? The 3 I mentioned Forrest,Grant, Halliday. I was wrong on Forrest and I'll say Grant too. Delighted to be proven wrong. Glad they have shown they can play for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboozy Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 6 minutes ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said: You never know when you might need a player, they all play for Hearts and need supported Saved me from typing, thanks.👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopeDiouf Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 7 minutes ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said: You never know when you might need a player, they all play for Hearts and need supported Indeed. Fingers crossed Shanks doesn't get an injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Happy to encourage them on match day but unfortunately some players just haven't got the minerals. No harm in debating in/outs when it comes to transfers. Some posters do go in too harsh on new players who start slow or those that have a poor game or run of form. Likewise, many go overboard in their praise if a players form is good, especially if a young player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 21 minutes ago, i8hibsh said: They are not 5 year old shy lassies saying a few lines in a nativity play on stage. This is big boy, top level stuff. If anyone is not performing, regardless of who they are then they should be told in no uncertain terms to buck up. Your constant omparison to lassies and woman is a bit weird in all honesty. Who's mind goes from a football game to a 5 year auld lassies play when looking for comparisons or in your case an excuse to call our players names and slag them? Ae you back at Tynecastle or are you still waiting on granny Budge to leave? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 14 minutes ago, Mr Rabbit said: Yeah, strange individual. Comes across as a parody account. Pretty sure it was Forrest, Grant and Halliday he was trying to boot out the door. Now he’s telling others to give people a chance 😂 I don't deny any of this,Happy Grant & Forrest have proved me wrong. Keep proving me wrong lads. That's all i can ask and hope for 😀. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All roads lead to Gorgie Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Unless a player is deliberately not giving their all for the team it's counterproductive to loudly criticize them when something like a pass doesn't go to plan. Sometimes a player just doesn't have the skill set to perform at the level we are seeking to play at but that's not their fault it's the club signing a player not quite of the calibre required. Sibbick always puts in a shift when in the team but he looks jittery when the crowd are not happy so he needs a bit more backing as does Oda who can make the wrong decisions at times but does have plenty plus points when the fans get behind him. It's a two way thing with Tagawa as he doesn't look 100% motivated to improve and win over his doubters but we should try to encourage him more and see if that does the trick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 34 minutes ago, OTT said: As a CB - agreed. I think he has very obvious skills - he's good on the ball, he can dribble, pick a pass and is athletic. I think someone described him on another thread as what a football SHOULD look like (in terms of raw materials). The problem is, he doesn't have the composure or concentration to play CB because any error is a goal (or as close as can be). We've saw that against Hibs this season, Rangers last season and likely a slew of less high profile errors in between. Jumping back to the Hibs game, I thought he did a fine job at RB/RWB until Naismith shunted him across to CB to avoid putting Halliday on when Kingsley went off. I think there is a player there, just not at CB, certainly not at this level. I think the point should be put to him that if he wants to succeed, he needs to try another position, like CM or RB. Peter Haring IIRC was signed as a CB but ended up doing a great job for us at CM. I want Toby to succeed, I really do. But he's not reliable enough to play CB. He's not our best cb or cm either. The young lads are better than him in midfield as well as all the senior players and Aki and Dexter who we have on loan as Sibbick isn't trusted to deputise are better rb's than him Kingsley is also a better rb than him. Thus great job at CM line is just not true, he was never " great". Edited February 13 by Bazzas right boot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 3 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said: He's not our best cb or cm either. The young lads are better than him in midfield as well as all the senior players and Aki and Dexter who we have on loan as Sibbick isn't trusted to deputise are better rb's than him Kingsley is also a better rb than him. Thus great job at CM line is just not true, he was never " great". TBH I think as others have said, he's probably ran out of time. Its frustrating, I think a lot like Sean Clare there is a feeling that he could have been so much better here but for whatever reason things haven't got going. Maybe he needed to give up the ghost of CB at this level a lot earlier? 😕 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 8 minutes ago, OTT said: TBH I think as others have said, he's probably ran out of time. Its frustrating, I think a lot like Sean Clare there is a feeling that he could have been so much better here but for whatever reason things haven't got going. Maybe he needed to give up the ghost of CB at this level a lot earlier? 😕 Good comparison as well, seems to be mental with the two you mention as they do have , or appeared to have the " raw" materials. Awareness, positioning, concentration, aggression etc and ofc confidence seems to kept them back despite having attributes like, athletism, pace, technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fila Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, Drylaw Hearts said: I will gladly encourage them to leave in the next transfer window. Spot on, I am all for positive encouraging and I’m fully onboard the Naismith juggernaut, however that doesn’t mean I’m going to back a three legged horse in the grand national Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon simpson Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, Finlay James said: 100% Ive never understood Hearts fans who slag/boo our own players either at games or on social media. It has the opposite impact intended and players lose confidence. Just recently, Naisy had to ask fans to lay off Hoff. It’s nonsense. This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 48 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said: 2 games. What’s your thoughts on the other 60 he has played for us? Including every minute of last seasons implosion. Naismiths first act was to launch Toby and get Kent in there. Your comment reminds me a bit of folk saying “there’s a player in there” with Euan Henderson because he had 1 good game and goal against alloa. But then they don’t mention the 50 other games where he done nothing. Wooosh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo-Jambo Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, hmfc_liam06 said: Sorry, Sibbick has had plenty chances. He's just not good enough. Agree and Tagawa is heading that way as well Just fail to see what he offers. Maybe didn't help his case being played on the right wing on Sunday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kaiser Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 I back every player on that park in maroon for 90 minutes.... .....but i reserve the right to speak my mind after the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRightPeg Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 5 minutes ago, Robbo-Jambo said: Agree and Tagawa is heading that way as well Just fail to see what he offers. Maybe didn't help his case being played on the right wing on Sunday How has Tagawa had plenty chances? He's played just over 500 minutes in 7 months, most of which he missed due to injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyCant Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 42 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said: The 3 I mentioned Forrest,Grant, Halliday. I was wrong on Forrest and I'll say Grant too. Delighted to be proven wrong. Glad they have shown they can play for us. So when you are urging us to get behind and support players who ‘aren’t doing so well’ that doesnt apply to an expert like you ? Im pretty sure you also singled out Sibbick for your attention, during your period where you trolled through transfermarkt and pretended knowledge on well over 100 players Still. Doesn’t really matter if a player or a manager for that matter gets slaughtered on here. It’s a forum for wide ranging opinions after all and has no impact on who gets selected, who gets released, who’s shite, who’s worth millions. Although it appears from his own words that Mr McKinley gives it some credence when making key decisions which is just one reason the guy shouldn’t be anywhere near Hearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunny Munro Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 I like Sibbick and feel for him that he never got a run of games beside Kent. Rowles was dreadful for the first 3 months of the season yet was persevered with and eventually became good by learning from him, Toby never got that chance. Both blew hot and cold last season (Rowles was great until the World Cup, Sibbick was great Nov-Feb). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Is the OP suggesting that Booing players really loud, hurling expelitives at them, ripping them on social media, giving them daft nicknames and calling them lazy *******s while getting red in the face doesn't help? Who'd have funk it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongo 1874 Posted February 13 Author Share Posted February 13 4 minutes ago, JimmyCant said: So when you are urging us to get behind and support players who ‘aren’t doing so well’ that doesnt apply to an expert like you ? Im pretty sure you also singled out Sibbick for your attention, during your period where you trolled through transfermarkt and pretended knowledge on well over 100 players Still. Doesn’t really matter if a player or a manager for that matter gets slaughtered on here. It’s a forum for wide ranging opinions after all and has no impact on who gets selected, who gets released, who’s shite, who’s worth millions. Although it appears from his own words that Mr McKinley gives it some credence when making key decisions which is just one reason the guy shouldn’t be anywhere near Hearts I'm a big fan of Sibbick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmiyaHearts Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) Sibbick and Grant have had plenty of chances - they don't have a future with us, if we are looking to continually improve. We'd have been better of with someone like Blair Spittal instead of Grant, and I don't think Spittal is good enough for us either. No one has given Tagawa or Oda hard time from the stands, from what I've heard. Tagawa just doesn't look interested - and that's a big issue for me. Although his game time has been limited. I give players a hard time on here but not at games. However, we need massive improvements from all the players mentioned above and on this thread. Edited February 13 by OmiyaHearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, JimmyCant said: Did you not spend the latter part of last season, the whole summer, and the early part of this season, slaughtering 3 players you assured us weren’t worthy of the jersey, Sibbick being one of those ? The hypocrisy of the guy is next level. Slates players when it suits him then comes out with a thread like this, absolutely laughable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 13 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said: How has Tagawa had plenty chances? He's played just over 500 minutes in 7 months, most of which he missed due to injury. This is always conveniently missed out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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