Zander Clark vs Craig Gordon ( merged )

[Lego]

After conceding 5 to rangers. 2 twice to dundee. 2 to county.   Time for gordon to get his chance again.

 

Clarks not done alot wrong but nothing 'world class' that gordon has saved 100s of times in his career.   no harm letting gordon get a game at tynie v hibs.  He is better at holding crosses and has potential to pull off a sace that wins the game

[Gorgieshed]

Clark is starting tonight, I know this for a fact.

[flem]

Clark is ok but, isn't anywhere near Gordons level. For that reason, Gordon should be starting games for us. 

[H2]

7 minutes ago, Gorgieshed said:

Clark is starting tonight, I know this for a fact.

How?

[Gorgierools]

7 minutes ago, Gorgieshed said:

Clark is starting tonight, I know this for a fact.

Strange that because normally Naisy doesn't tell the players the team until much closer to the game.

[Gorgieshed]

35 minutes ago, Gorgierools said:

Strange that because normally Naisy doesn't tell the players the team until much closer to the game.

That's not true and u know u have just made that up. CG and Clark have known since Monday.

[Fozzyonthefence]

6 hours ago, Cruickie's Moustache said:

My issue is that for some reason, some people just can't seem to let it lie that Naismith has clearly not seen Clark do anything wrong that warrants him being dropped and/or Gordon hasn't showed anything exceptional that will improve our current trajectory and that automatically means he gets back the No1 jersey.

 

 

How more exceptional than looking back to his best in training while warming the bench do you want our best ever keeper to be before he warrants getting back in the team?  What more are you expecting him to do?  Being average in games while we have a far superior keeper on the bench does warrant being dropped imo.  He doesn’t have to do anything wrong (although he does), he just doesn’t do enough right and he’s not anywhere near as good as the alternative. Clark will get replaced by Gordon at some point soon, just a question of when.  I don’t think it will be tonight though. 

[dsk1210]

4 minutes ago, Gorgieshed said:

That's not true and u know u have just made that up. CG and Clark have known since Monday.

The team is told the line up 2 and a half hours before Kick off. It was recently on Scarves around the Funnel.

[Gorgieshed]

15 minutes ago, dsk1210 said:

The team is told the line up 2 and a half hours before Kick off. It was recently on Scarves around the Funnel.

Look, I'm not here to cause debate or argue. Also not one to troll or pretend to be ITK, check back my posts. I know, Gordon and Clark have been told Clark is starting. 

[dsk1210]

24 minutes ago, Gorgieshed said:

Look, I'm not here to cause debate or argue. Also not one to troll or pretend to be ITK, check back my posts. I know, Gordon and Clark have been told Clark is starting. 

It's no problem, it's just what Laurie was talking about on Scarves around the Funnel and they do tend to get a bit more info than us plebs.

[Gorgierools]

54 minutes ago, Gorgieshed said:

That's not true and u know u have just made that up. CG and Clark have known since Monday.

Going by what was said on SATF last week .

Forget that,see already answered

Edited February 28 by Gorgierools

[DS98]

1 hour ago, Gorgieshed said:

That's not true and u know u have just made that up. CG and Clark have known since Monday.

The team is told as a collective on the day of the match. Individuals are sometimes told prior to this. So Clark will know he’s playing and Gordon won’t. But neither of them will know the full team.

[GinRummy]

8 hours ago, Cruickie's Moustache said:

My issue is that for some reason, some people just can't seem to let it lie that Naismith has clearly not seen Clark do anything wrong that warrants him being dropped and/or Gordon hasn't showed anything exceptional that will improve our current trajectory and that automatically means he gets back the No1 jersey.

 

 

Maybe or maybe he's just waiting on the right moment to bring Craig back in. Naisy quite big on squad harmony/unity . We'll all find out at 6:30pm

Edited February 28 by GinRummy

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Maybe or maybe he's just waiting on the right moment to bring Craig back in. Naisy quite big on squad harmony/unity . We'll all find out at 6:30pm

I think that’s exactly it and I don’t think it will be tonight, although personally I would make the change tonight.  
 

I do also wonder though, how much of this decision is down to Naismith and how much is down to the goalkeeper coach (assuming we still have one?).  Obviously SN has final say but I wonder how much he will rely on the GK coach for advice on what is an unique / specialist position. 

[GinRummy]

Just now, Fozzyonthefence said:

I think that’s exactly it and I don’t think it will be tonight, although personally I would make the change tonight.  
 

I do also wonder though, how much of this decision is down to Naismith and how much is down to the goalkeeper coach (assuming we still have one?).  Obviously SN has final say but I wonder how much he will rely on the GK coach for advice on what is an unique / specialist position. 

Had to check there, Paul Gallagher is still goalkeeping coach so aye, you'd think he'd have some input.

[upgotheheads]

2 hours ago, Gorgieshed said:

That's not true and u know u have just made that up. CG and Clark have known since Monday.

 

Why would you make that kind of decision on Monday? There's three days of training to go and anything could happen. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

9 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Had to check there, Paul Gallagher is still goalkeeping coach so aye, you'd think he'd have some input.

👍

[jr ewing]

Who would the opposition rather face 🤔 And there's your answer. 

[Pasquale for King]

57 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I think that’s exactly it and I don’t think it will be tonight, although personally I would make the change tonight.  
 

I do also wonder though, how much of this decision is down to Naismith and how much is down to the goalkeeper coach (assuming we still have one?).  Obviously SN has final say but I wonder how much he will rely on the GK coach for advice on what is an unique / specialist position. 

Thats as big an issue for me, Paul Gallacher hasn’t improved one area of any GK he’s coached so far. It really shouldn’t be up to him if thats what happens. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, Gorgieshed said:

Look, I'm not here to cause debate or argue. Also not one to troll or pretend to be ITK, check back my posts. I know, Gordon and Clark have been told Clark is starting. 

A boost for Hibs..

[Fozzyonthefence]

14 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Thats as big an issue for me, Paul Gallacher hasn’t improved one area of any GK he’s coached so far. It really shouldn’t be up to him if thats what happens. 

He will surely get asked for his input and whatever you think of him he’s a former international goalkeeper and will have more knowledge of the position than Naismith does.  

[gorgierulesapply88]

I'll hang fire on my minus 2 Hearts until I see who's in goals 👍

[Thunder and Lightning]

3 hours ago, Gorgieshed said:

Look, I'm not here to cause debate or argue. Also not one to troll or pretend to be ITK, check back my posts. I know, Gordon and Clark have been told Clark is starting. 

 

Big gamble, a 50/50 call.

 

I can tell you for a FACT that we will start with a Striker on the pitch.

[Carter]

Pretty certain Clark will start. If the staff look at goals 1 and 5 in particular from Saturday and feel that's good enough then so be it. I get the dilemma that Naismith is confronted with. Leave out Clark after a relatively solid spell and Gordon comes in and makes a mistake and we've potentially got a problem. He probably also sees Clark as the solution beyond CG's playing days. Gordon is just quite simply a far superior goalkeeper. He's the best in the country and you can't be having that quality sat in reserve indefinitely. 

 

I have a feeling Clark is in until he shits the bed. 

[Pasquale for King]

13 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

He will surely get asked for his input and whatever you think of him he’s a former international goalkeeper and will have more knowledge of the position than Naismith does.  

He will be asked but he surely doesn’t make the decision, SN has said himself that Gordon is back to his best. It doesn’t take a genius to work out the mistakes Clark makes every week.
As for being an international GK, Clark/Zlamal/Doyle/McGovern/Moulanen/Kurskus are too, Perriera/Hamilton nearly were. It’s really not that difficult for certain players at certain times. 
Zibi is a goalkeeper coach ffs 😆. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Carter said:

Pretty certain Clark will start. If the staff look at goals 1 and 5 in particular from Saturday and feel that's good enough then so be it. I get the dilemma that Naismith is confronted with. Leave out Clark after a relatively solid spell and Gordon comes in and makes a mistake and we've potentially got a problem. He probably also sees Clark as the solution beyond CG's playing days. Gordon is just quite simply a far superior goalkeeper. He's the best in the country and you can't be having that quality sat in reserve indefinitely. 

 

I have a feeling Clark is in until he shits the bed. 

Correct, unfortunately.
If Clark is the long term answer then we’re asking the wrong question. 

[OTT]

1 minute ago, Carter said:

Pretty certain Clark will start. If the staff look at goals 1 and 5 in particular from Saturday and feel that's good enough then so be it. I get the dilemma that Naismith is confronted with. Leave out Clark after a relatively solid spell and Gordon comes in and makes a mistake and we've potentially got a problem. He probably also sees Clark as the solution beyond CG's playing days. Gordon is just quite simply a far superior goalkeeper. He's the best in the country and you can't be having that quality sat in reserve indefinitely. 

 

I have a feeling Clark is in until he shits the bed. 

 

Inclined to agree - I do think Clark needs to put in a big performance tonight. 

 

The circumstances are that we've got a club legend and objectively better goalkeeper on the bench because he's done so well. 

 

Shipping 5 goals in any game is going to raise questions.

 

Losing a derby is going to basically chuck a 5 galon drum of petrol on that fire. 

 

I think anything less than a rock solid performance will turn up the pressure on Clark hugely. It might not be fair, but the circumstances are what they are. 

 

 

[Carter]

3 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Inclined to agree - I do think Clark needs to put in a big performance tonight. 

 

The circumstances are that we've got a club legend and objectively better goalkeeper on the bench because he's done so well. 

 

Shipping 5 goals in any game is going to raise questions.

 

Losing a derby is going to basically chuck a 5 galon drum of petrol on that fire. 

 

I think anything less than a rock solid performance will turn up the pressure on Clark hugely. It might not be fair, but the circumstances are what they are. 

 

 

Tonight is massive for Clark. As is Sunday. Concession of soft goals in either and he is replaced imo. 

[OTT]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Correct, unfortunately.
If Clark is the long term answer then we’re asking the wrong question. 

 

I actually disagree - Clark is a very solid keeper. He's got flaws, but it wasn't that long ago we had bad, worse and shocking as our goalkeeping options - Bobby, Doyle & Poppadom Hands himself. 

 

I would rate our keepers over the last decade as:

 

1 - Gordon

2 - McLaughlin

3 - Zander

4 - Alexander

5 - MacDonald

6  - Bobby

7 - Hamilton

8 - Noring

9 - Doyle

10 - Poppadom Hands

 

Probably missed a few, but those are the notable ones. There is probably a reasonable arguement to be had between Zander and Alexander, but y'know, not a hill I'm dying on. 

 

Point is, I think Zander is unappreciated. Had we had him during the demotion/COVID season, I think we'd have comfortably stayed up. 

[Carter]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Correct, unfortunately.
If Clark is the long term answer then we’re asking the wrong question. 

Clark is a solid enough keeper at this level. Some pretty big flaws for me, doesn't command his area and handling can be suspect. He's nowhere near the standard of Craig Gordon if we're being completely honest.

[briever]

It's not about Clark doing something to be dropped - Gordon is the better keeper.

[jr ewing]

53 minutes ago, briever said:

It's not about Clark doing something to be dropped - Gordon is the better keeper.

And a calming influence on our defence. 

[longmalx]

Clark is not in the same league as Gordon from 10 or even 5 year ago.

Gordon now? None of us ultimately know.

 

He was shakier pre-injury than previous seasons and no-one really has an idea where he's at post injury as he's not played the games.

In warm-up he has looked slow going down to his left, but its hard to judge.

 

I suspect Clark will definitely play today and Sunday. If we ship a lot of goals then I think Gordon may get a chance. If we don't, then I suspect Clark will remain 1st choice until 3rd spot is secured with Gordon used in the cup.

 

Edited February 28 by longmalx

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, OTT said:

 

I actually disagree - Clark is a very solid keeper. He's got flaws, but it wasn't that long ago we had bad, worse and shocking as our goalkeeping options - Bobby, Doyle & Poppadom Hands himself. 

 

I would rate our keepers over the last decade as:

 

1 - Gordon

2 - McLaughlin

3 - Zander

4 - Alexander

5 - MacDonald

6  - Bobby

7 - Hamilton

8 - Noring

9 - Doyle

10 - Poppadom Hands

 

Probably missed a few, but those are the notable ones. There is probably a reasonable arguement to be had between Zander and Alexander, but y'know, not a hill I'm dying on. 

 

Point is, I think Zander is unappreciated. Had we had him during the demotion/COVID season, I think we'd have comfortably stayed up. 

Alexander was better, just because CL couldn’t pick a GK doesn’t make him a top GK.

Bog standard SPFL GK who is ok as a backup but not a 1st choice, hes a master of nothing and hasn’t improved in any aspect of his game since he came. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Carter said:

Clark is a solid enough keeper at this level. Some pretty big flaws for me, doesn't command his area and handling can be suspect. He's nowhere near the standard of Craig Gordon if we're being completely honest.

Indeed, not good enough to be our 1st choice if we want to progress. 

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, longmalx said:

Clark is not in the same league as Gordon from 10 or even 5 year ago.

Gordon now? None of us ultimately know.

 

He was shakier pre-injury than previous seasons and no-one really has an idea where he's at post injury as he's not played the games.

In warm-up he has looked slow going down to his left, but its hard to judge.

 

I suspect Clark will definitely play today and Sunday. If we ship a lot of goals then I think Gordon may get a chance. If we don't, then I suspect Clark will remain 1st choice until 3rd spot is secured with Gordon used in the cup.

 

Unfortunately you are spot on, lets hope we don’t lose loads of goals but Clark can still make mistakes that we get away with. 

[OTT]

19 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Alexander was better, just because CL couldn’t pick a GK doesn’t make him a top GK.

Bog standard SPFL GK who is ok as a backup but not a 1st choice, hes a master of nothing and hasn’t improved in any aspect of his game since he came. 

 

Fair enough - all opinions at the end of the day  

 

Lets say the worst happens - Gordon isn't the same keeper he was and Zander moves on at the end of the season for whatever reason. Are there any specific keepers you would fancy ? Obviously, Aberdeen are looking at Sieghirst and the St Johnstone keeper has had pretty solid reviews despite their place in the league. McLaughlin has also been told he's leaving Rangers, although I don't think he's the same keeper he was when he was here (but perhaps he just needs a run and some confidence). 

 

(its not a trick question btw, just be interesting to see what an alternative to the status quo might look like) 

[Cruyff]

After Ibrox. Craig should get his chance. Zander is decent and solid enough but he's no Craig. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 hour ago, briever said:

It's not about Clark doing something to be dropped - Gordon is the better keeper.

Was. Gordon was the better keeper. In his day. One of the best Scotland has produced as a nation. But that’s the past.

Looking at the present day, fans have got to hold up hands and accept: the coaches are the ones watching these guys train every day.
 

They have the access to the players, and they’re not making any decisions based on the past. It’s about what they are seeing right now.
 

Our head coach is calling it as he sees it.

 

And with the record of Wins who are we to disagree with him? He has got his team selections spot on. Every victory in which Zander has played, Zander was the correct selection as the game was Won. 

 

Even tho I probably would want several changes after the rangers game, and Gordon seems a logical option to freshen it, Steven Naismith would have every right to stick with his keeper who has got 13 clean sheets from 27 games. Zander is maintaining a 50% clean sheet rate. It’s a superb season for a goalkeeper. It isn’t a “bog standard” or “average” season. It’s outstanding. The guys got more clean sheets than the Celtic keeper. One for the stattos, when was the last time a Hearts goalkeeper kept more clean sheets than either OF keeper? A long time ago I would expect.
 

So while Hearts fans may wish to see big CG back, if Zander is the shout, the management are justified in their decision. It’s a decision fans can disagree with without giving the manager pelters imo, Naisy is well within his rights to stick with his keeper who’s given him that amount of clean sheets. It’s perfectly justifiable. 

[Pasquale for King]

59 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Fair enough - all opinions at the end of the day  

 

Lets say the worst happens - Gordon isn't the same keeper he was and Zander moves on at the end of the season for whatever reason. Are there any specific keepers you would fancy ? Obviously, Aberdeen are looking at Sieghirst and the St Johnstone keeper has had pretty solid reviews despite their place in the league. McLaughlin has also been told he's leaving Rangers, although I don't think he's the same keeper he was when he was here (but perhaps he just needs a run and some confidence). 

 

(its not a trick question btw, just be interesting to see what an alternative to the status quo might look like) 

I don’t think any of the other GKs are up to the job, we will need to scour the market.
I wouldn’t blame Clark if he wanted to leave if he loses his position, he should want to play at his age. We wouldn’t be difficult to deal with if he wants to go. 

[Pasquale for King]

The irony of slating our best ever GK whilst saying don’t criticise “Zander” is laughable tbh. 

[karipidis]

I think its reasonable to want Gordon to play as he is a once in a lifetime talent. However, I think it is also reasonable to think that Clark is about the level we can expect for a goalkeeper once Craig retires. He is probably the 3rd or 4th best in the league, yes we can possibly get better but it is not an easy position to fill as we discovered after McLaughlin left. Lets not forget what he did in the last derby either. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

45 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Was. Gordon was the better keeper. In his day. One of the best Scotland has produced as a nation. But that’s the past.

Looking at the present day, fans have got to hold up hands and accept: the coaches are the ones watching these guys train every day.
 

They have the access to the players, and they’re not making any decisions based on the past. It’s about what they are seeing right now.
 

Our head coach is calling it as he sees it.

 

And with the record of Wins who are we to disagree with him? He has got his team selections spot on. Every victory in which Zander has played, Zander was the correct selection as the game was Won. 

 

Even tho I probably would want several changes after the rangers game, and Gordon seems a logical option to freshen it, Steven Naismith would have every right to stick with his keeper who has got 13 clean sheets from 27 games. Zander is maintaining a 50% clean sheet rate. It’s a superb season for a goalkeeper. It isn’t a “bog standard” or “average” season. It’s outstanding. The guys got more clean sheets than the Celtic keeper. One for the stattos, when was the last time a Hearts goalkeeper kept more clean sheets than either OF keeper? A long time ago I would expect.
 

So while Hearts fans may wish to see big CG back, if Zander is the shout, the management are justified in their decision. It’s a decision fans can disagree with without giving the manager pelters imo, Naisy is well within his rights to stick with his keeper who’s given him that amount of clean sheets. It’s perfectly justifiable. 

You just can’t say because we won a game that all 11 selections were correct.  That’s not how football works.  Sometimes you win a game despite one or two players having a bad game and would win more comfortably with someone playing in their place. 
 

As for what the head coach is saying, well he’s been pretty gushing in his praise of how well Gordon has been playing in training.  So that’s all we’ve really got to go on other than a couple of cup games where he looked sharp but didn’t have much to do.  We’ve no idea how Clark has been performing in training but he’s playing every week so he’ll be judged more on match performances.  If he’s amazing in training but starts chucking them in the net on match days then he’ll get dropped but I don’t think we should be waiting until that happens.  For me it’s what Clark doesn’t do or can’t do that is the reason he should be getting replaced soon. 
 

As for clean sheets, you do realise that’s not all down to the keeper?  In  any case the defence has started leaking quite a lot of goals of late so I suspect the change will happen sooner or later, but not tonight. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

You just can’t say because we won a game that all 11 selections were correct.  That’s not how football works.  Sometimes you win a game despite one or two players having a bad game and would win more comfortably with someone playing in their place. 
 

As for what the head coach is saying, well he’s been pretty gushing in his praise of how well Gordon has been playing in training.  So that’s all we’ve really got to go on other than a couple of cup games where he looked sharp but didn’t have much to do.  We’ve no idea how Clark has been performing in training but he’s playing every week so he’ll be judged more on match performances.  If he’s amazing in training but starts chucking them in the net on match days then he’ll get dropped but I don’t think we should be waiting until that happens.  For me it’s what Clark doesn’t do or can’t do that is the reason he should be getting replaced soon. 
 

As for clean sheets, you do realise that’s not all down to the keeper?  In  any case the defence has started leaking quite a lot of goals of late so I suspect the change will happen sooner or later, but not tonight. 

Goalkeepers are judged on 2 fundamental things clean sheets and number of goals conceded. His record this season is very good in both departments. No complaints about his distribution either. A keeper literally gets his bonus if he keeps a clean sheet, that’s his entire incentive and main purpose in the game: Keep the ball out of the net. Zander has done so every other game. Cannot really be argued with I’m afraid. Yes it’s a team achievement, just as scoring a goal is a team achievement. Shankland gets all credit for a goal but what about the 5-6-7 key passes in the build up? Its often the whole team producing a goal. Yet its the striker gets the credit for the goal. That’s how it works for goalkeepers and clean sheets, and that is how it’ll always be.
 

Clark is on for a potential 20 clean sheet season and Naisy may feel he has earned his right to try and go for that which would be outstanding. I am really just saying, you can disagree and want CG in. But if the manager goes for Zander then you’ve got to accept that it’s a justifiable decision. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

24 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Goalkeepers are judged on 2 fundamental things clean sheets and number of goals conceded. His record this season is very good in both departments. No complaints about his distribution either. A keeper literally gets his bonus if he keeps a clean sheet, that’s his entire incentive and main purpose in the game: Keep the ball out of the net. Zander has done so every other game. Cannot really be argued with I’m afraid. Yes it’s a team achievement, just as scoring a goal is a team achievement. Shankland gets all credit for a goal but what about the 5-6-7 key passes in the build up? Its often the whole team producing a goal. Yet its the striker gets the credit for the goal. That’s how it works for goalkeepers and clean sheets, and that is how it’ll always be.
 

Clark is on for a potential 20 clean sheet season and Naisy may feel he has earned his right to try and go for that which would be outstanding. I am really just saying, you can disagree and want CG in. But if the manager goes for Zander then you’ve got to accept that it’s a justifiable decision. 

That’s rather simplistic but might be the way you judge how good a keeper is but it’s very flawed. You missed out an obvious one too - number of mistakes. Clean sheets isn’t exactly a fair way of judging a keeper’s performance.  He can get a clean sheet without having a save to make or despite dodgy handling errors or flapping / missing cross balls.  On the flip side he might let in 2 or 3 unsaveable goals but have a great game.  It’s nowhere near as black and white as you make out and you can guarantee the coaching staff will be monitoring a number of factors not just the two you mention. 
 

But if you want to talk about just goals we’re conceding a lot more recently - 5 against Rangers, 2 against Dundee twice, 2 against Ross County, 2 at Aberdeen.  Seems to be either a clean sheet or it’s 2 or more now.  Perhaps too many changes in the back 3 / 4 not helping either. 
 

Not disagreeing with lots of your other points though.  I just think the time is right for the inevitable change now. 

Edited February 28 by Fozzyonthefence

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

That’s rather simplistic but might be the way you judge how good a keeper is but it’s very flawed. You missed out an obvious one too - number of mistakes. Clean sheets isn’t exactly a fair way of judging a keeper’s performance.  He can get a clean sheet without having a save to make or despite dodgy handling errors or flapping / missing cross balls.  On the flip side he might let in 2 or 3 unsaveable goals but have a great game.  It’s nowhere near as black and white as you make out and you can guarantee the coaching staff will be monitoring a number of factors not just the two you mention. 
 

But if you want to talk about just goals we’re conceding a lot more recently - 5 against Rangers, 2 against Dundee twice, 2 against Ross County, 2 at Aberdeen.  Seems to be either a clean sheet or it’s 2 or more now.  Perhaps too many changes in the back 3 / 4 not helping either. 

I guess you’ll be in favour of scrapping the clean sheet bonus which all goalkeepers live for then? It’s the best buzz any goalkeeper gets. The keepers are best pals after the game when it’s a 0-0 draw. A time honoured football tradition. Only players on the day to get their bonus. Rest of the players are sick as pigs. Keepers are a different breed, the clean sheet is what a goalkeeper lives for. And I can guarantee it’s a big factor in Craig Gordon determination to come back, and extending for the extra season. He is sat on 95 clean sheets as a Hearts player, getting to 100 will be one of the #1 goals for him. He was probably fuming after both Spartans and Airdrie games despite the team winning. That’s the way keepers are. If they’ve not kept a clean sheet they’re not happy. 
 

Yes, it’s a bit simplistic but that’s the way it is. Always has been, always will be. Any goalkeeper who has a knack of bagging his clean sheet bonus every other week is a hard man to drop for a manager. Naismith would appear to be very much old school in that regard if rumours of Clark being selected tonight are true. 

 

[briever]

2 hours ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Was.

 

Based on?

[i wish jj was my dad]

4 hours ago, OTT said:

 

Inclined to agree - I do think Clark needs to put in a big performance tonight. 

 

The circumstances are that we've got a club legend and objectively better goalkeeper on the bench because he's done so well. 

 

Shipping 5 goals in any game is going to raise questions.

 

Losing a derby is going to basically chuck a 5 galon drum of petrol on that fire. 

 

I think anything less than a rock solid performance will turn up the pressure on Clark hugely. It might not be fair, but the circumstances are what they are. 

 

 

Much more sensible than the revisionism that Clark is a weak link who makes mistakes every week. Nothing would make me happier than to see Craig get the nod today but constantly making up stuff about Clark is deeply unhealthy. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

1 hour ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

I guess you’ll be in favour of scrapping the clean sheet bonus which all goalkeepers live for then? It’s the best buzz any goalkeeper gets. The keepers are best pals after the game when it’s a 0-0 draw. A time honoured football tradition. Only players on the day to get their bonus. Rest of the players are sick as pigs. Keepers are a different breed, the clean sheet is what a goalkeeper lives for. And I can guarantee it’s a big factor in Craig Gordon determination to come back, and extending for the extra season. He is sat on 95 clean sheets as a Hearts player, getting to 100 will be one of the #1 goals for him. He was probably fuming after both Spartans and Airdrie games despite the team winning. That’s the way keepers are. If they’ve not kept a clean sheet they’re not happy. 
 

Yes, it’s a bit simplistic but that’s the way it is. Always has been, always will be. Any goalkeeper who has a knack of bagging his clean sheet bonus every other week is a hard man to drop for a manager. Naismith would appear to be very much old school in that regard if rumours of Clark being selected tonight are true. 

 

He didn’t keep a clean sheet last game though, he let in 5 goals. If clean sheets are the be all end all way of judging a good game by a keeper then, using that logic, letting in 5 goals is a nightmare game and he should be droppped?  I don’t believe either of those statements by the way, I’m just showing how it’s not as straightforward as that, so many other things to consider.

 

It’s only as simplistic as that in your mind not thankfully in the minds of the coaching staff making the decisions.

 

I’ve no idea if Gordon or Clark get a clean sheet bonus or any of the defenders for that matter, just like I’ve no idea if Shankland gets a goal scoring bonus.  I don’t see how it’s relevant to this debate though. 

[Armageddon]

Sublime performance from Zander last night, like MOTM stuff.