Marvin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 My brother was offered a scholarship to go private but he didn't want to go and ended up at Craigmount. I got sent to Royal High despite my protests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 No. Tax them to the hilt please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 4 minutes ago, Gundermann said: No. Tax them to the hilt please. It will do nothing . It’s easy to blame private schools for the disparity in achievement, because saying the truth - that it’s lazy ass parenting- is not a popular view with the great unwashed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 12 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: Might be acceptable to you but I hold higher standards That's all to the good if you're dripping cash the way that I drip the previous night's moonshine next to the 2 bar electric fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 hours ago, periodictabledancer said: That's simply not true now nor in the past. It may be the case for some parents but not all. I don't know why you talk of a single area : I mentioned the ability of people of means to move to the postcodes where the better state schools are : which they do, because it costs more to buy a house there - as I knw from personal experience. My parents moved to Cleri so that they can send me to the Royal High. Fat lot of good that did me. I wanted to go to Broughton where my primary school pals all went (and childhood sweetheart). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: It will do nothing . It’s easy to blame private schools for the disparity in achievement, because saying the truth - that it’s lazy ass parenting- is not a popular view with the great unwashed. Incoming in 3, 2, 1.............................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 16 hours ago, Dawnrazor said: That's unfortunate, 99% of the ones I've over the years have been really sound. Just very good at hiding it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said: so thats 3 people who speak in fluently in Scotland then. Is that you hating another minority. Typical minority, deflects it onto another minority. Edited January 14 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 4 minutes ago, ri Alban said: Just very good at hiding it. Nah, I think I'm a decent enough judge of character to spot a chancer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 6 minutes ago, John Findlay said: Incoming in 3, 2, 1.............................. He can say what he wants. Means I can say what I want. Well that's how it should work, but it doesn't. Snowflake rightwingers do like it up them and grass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, Lord BJ said: I hope you've got some hot knives in the fire. I think @doctor jambo make a good point about parenting. Even if he’ll get hung for it. Some people do take parenting a bit more seriously than others, unsurprisingly that produces different results. Personal responsibility over state responsibility to raise your children, I suppose. Doctor jambo thinks having his wife or nanny do the parenting is him being a good parent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said: Nah, I think I'm a decent enough judge of character to spot a chancer. Sorry bud, but you'll realise one day, how naive that statement is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, ri Alban said: Sorry bud, but you'll realise one day, how naive that statement is. Oh I've been wrong a couple of times, but on the whole. I've met more than my fair shae of ring pieces from a similar background to me for balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, Dawnrazor said: Oh I've been wrong a couple of times, but on the whole. I've met more than my fair shae of ring pieces from a similar background to me for balance. Haven't we all. As soon as I see someone else looking down their nose at me, they better hope I'm with my Mrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnrazor Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, ri Alban said: Haven't we all. As soon as I see someone else looking down their nose at me, they better hope I'm with my Mrs. Billy Connolly summed the situations up well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 5 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: I hope you've got some hot knives in the fire. Pish test a week tomorrow. 6 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: I think @doctor jambo make a good point about parenting. Even if he’ll get hung for it. Of course he does. 6 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: Personal responsibility over state responsibility to raise your children, I suppose. What about those rockets that pap their bairns off to boarding school because they're too busy with their careers or can't be arsed with the bother of doing a lot if the hard yards themselves? OK, it's not like leaving it to the lottery that is state education, but chucking cash at it doesn't change the fact that they're abdicating personal responsibility for a huge chunk of parenting. That's the thing, see. There is a mindset that thinks paying through the beak for something IS taking personal responsibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said: Billy Connolly summed the situations up well. I treat folk the way I like to be treated, but for one second I see or sense anything, I don't feck about. I treat them with the contempt and aggression they deserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 24 minutes ago, ri Alban said: Is that you hating another minority. Typical minority, deflects it onto another minority. Oooooo who said I hated them ? ! Interesting comment though claiming that all minorities deflect onto other minorities ! 😎👍 45% is a minority I believe 🏴 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 6 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: I can't understand why anyone would send their kids to boarding school, albeit been a few times where I wish I could have done it 😂 maybe if a diplomat or working in some mental place. I don't think, they think they are taking personal responsibility actually. I suspect they are fully aware they are contracting that ability and the expense is probably little more than a self coping mechanism to justify the biological/parenting instinct. Same but less with Nanny. Don't know anyone has ever went to boarding school. Not even sure how common it is nowadays. Do the Royals still going to boarding school? My kids school did away with boarders a long long time ago. I know people who are taking kids out private school and putting them into state school, final year when grades got, for the CV for unis!!! I’ve worked with a couple of blokes who’ve gone to boarding school. Both of them seriously posh and both of them very open about the fact that when they left school to go to university they were incredibly naive about basic social skills and getting to know new people, especially the opposite sex. One of them went to Wellington College in the south of England as it was tradition in his family, despite being Scottish. His dad was brought up in Kenya until he was 7 as his parents were working on a farm his family owned there. He was woken up by his dad when he was 7 saying time to get up, you’re going to school. At which point he was driven to the airport and put in a flight to London and then taken to the boarding school. For the next dozen years he saw his parents about once a year on average. That’s not normal behaviour for average people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 3 hours ago, doctor jambo said: It will do nothing . It’s easy to blame private schools for the disparity in achievement, because saying the truth - that it’s lazy ass parenting- is not a popular view with the great unwashed. Lazy ass parenting... That's why enitlted poshos send their kids to private schools. Edited January 14 by Gundermann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 15 minutes ago, Gundermann said: Lazy ass parenting... Correct. 16 minutes ago, Gundermann said: That's why enitlted poshos send their kids to private schools. ^^^^ not a pot to piss in and an enormous chip on his shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, il Duce McTarkin said: Correct. ^^^^ not a pot to piss in and an enormous chip on his shoulder. Quite- i feel that I should provide, I should educate, I should fund, I should teach, I should be responsible for, I should discipline. Gubderman feels the state should provide , educate , fund, teach, discipline but I’m entitled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_razors_edge Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Interesting topic and a lot of good discussion. Before having kids I’d have said no there’s no need to go private for education. I went through the education system at the local primary and comprehensive high school and did ok - made some great friends, got some highers and didn’t get any hassle. Granted I went to a decent secondary school. However, now having 13, 11 and 7 year olds I’d probably argue differently. Unfortunately we’re now in the catchment area for a high school ranked 300+ in the ‘league table’ and some of the things my 13 year old comes home and tells me…the mind boggles. The school sounds like it’s there to provide nothing more than 6 hours of free childcare for some kids and parents. There appears to be little interest in educational attainment for many of the students with most classes being disrupted due to poor behaviour. And whether some on here like it or not that attitude starts at home with the parent/guardian. On the flip side my daughter got a fantastic written report and I attended her parents evening during the week and she got glowing feedback from all her teachers. It was clear to see the teachers will invest that bit more into a child that wants to learn. So I suspect she’ll do well even at a shite school because she’ll get a bit more out of her teachers. That said, I do think she’d flourish even more if she attended a school where kids were more academically inclined with better facilities and opportunities. All 3 of mine have attended the village primary school which is a good school relative to the area - just a shame about the catchment high school 🙄. We’ve still had our issues with the behaviour and disruption from other pupils though which is frustrating as all 3 of our kids are bright, hard working and keen learners - promoted, nurtured and supported by the wife and I. In short I’d now send my kids to private school if I could afford it so they could go through the education system with like minded kids and their parents where educational attainment is a priority. The wife disagrees with me though 😅 On a slightly bizarre note I was told a story about a woman who lived in the Craiglockhart area who sent her son to board at merchiston castle - it’s literally just up the road. Clearly didn’t fancy the parenting side of having a kid 🙈 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 hours ago, il Duce McTarkin said: Correct. ^^^^ not a pot to piss in and an enormous chip on his shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 33 minutes ago, The_razors_edge said: Interesting topic and a lot of good discussion. Before having kids I’d have said no there’s no need to go private for education. I went through the education system at the local primary and comprehensive high school and did ok - made some great friends, got some highers and didn’t get any hassle. Granted I went to a decent secondary school. However, now having 13, 11 and 7 year olds I’d probably argue differently. Unfortunately we’re now in the catchment area for a high school ranked 300+ in the ‘league table’ and some of the things my 13 year old comes home and tells me…the mind boggles. The school sounds like it’s there to provide nothing more than 6 hours of free childcare for some kids and parents. There appears to be little interest in educational attainment for many of the students with most classes being disrupted due to poor behaviour. And whether some on here like it or not that attitude starts at home with the parent/guardian. On the flip side my daughter got a fantastic written report and I attended her parents evening during the week and she got glowing feedback from all her teachers. It was clear to see the teachers will invest that bit more into a child that wants to learn. So I suspect she’ll do well even at a shite school because she’ll get a bit more out of her teachers. That said, I do think she’d flourish even more if she attended a school where kids were more academically inclined with better facilities and opportunities. All 3 of mine have attended the village primary school which is a good school relative to the area - just a shame about the catchment high school 🙄. We’ve still had our issues with the behaviour and disruption from other pupils though which is frustrating as all 3 of our kids are bright, hard working and keen learners - promoted, nurtured and supported by the wife and I. In short I’d now send my kids to private school if I could afford it so they could go through the education system with like minded kids and their parents where educational attainment is a priority. The wife disagrees with me though 😅 On a slightly bizarre note I was told a story about a woman who lived in the Craiglockhart area who sent her son to board at merchiston castle - it’s literally just up the road. Clearly didn’t fancy the parenting side of having a kid 🙈 Oh mate, I knew a family who lived in Stocksbridge and sent their kids to board at Loretto. Wife didn’t even work, the lazy cow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 32 minutes ago, The_razors_edge said: Interesting topic and a lot of good discussion. Before having kids I’d have said no there’s no need to go private for education. I went through the education system at the local primary and comprehensive high school and did ok - made some great friends, got some highers and didn’t get any hassle. Granted I went to a decent secondary school. However, now having 13, 11 and 7 year olds I’d probably argue differently. Unfortunately we’re now in the catchment area for a high school ranked 300+ in the ‘league table’ and some of the things my 13 year old comes home and tells me…the mind boggles. The school sounds like it’s there to provide nothing more than 6 hours of free childcare for some kids and parents. There appears to be little interest in educational attainment for many of the students with most classes being disrupted due to poor behaviour. And whether some on here like it or not that attitude starts at home with the parent/guardian. On the flip side my daughter got a fantastic written report and I attended her parents evening during the week and she got glowing feedback from all her teachers. It was clear to see the teachers will invest that bit more into a child that wants to learn. So I suspect she’ll do well even at a shite school because she’ll get a bit more out of her teachers. That said, I do think she’d flourish even more if she attended a school where kids were more academically inclined with better facilities and opportunities. All 3 of mine have attended the village primary school which is a good school relative to the area - just a shame about the catchment high school 🙄. We’ve still had our issues with the behaviour and disruption from other pupils though which is frustrating as all 3 of our kids are bright, hard working and keen learners - promoted, nurtured and supported by the wife and I. In short I’d now send my kids to private school if I could afford it so they could go through the education system with like minded kids and their parents where educational attainment is a priority. The wife disagrees with me though 😅 On a slightly bizarre note I was told a story about a woman who lived in the Craiglockhart area who sent her son to board at merchiston castle - it’s literally just up the road. Clearly didn’t fancy the parenting side of having a kid 🙈 Good post. As an aside, I know a bloke who sent both his sons to board at Merchie Castle despite living 20 15 mins away by car. One was a reasonable investment, but with the other he'd have been as well spunking the couple of hundred grand on cocaine and Russian whores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 minutes ago, Gundermann said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gundermann Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, doctor jambo said: Quite- i feel that I should provide, I should educate, I should fund, I should teach, I should be responsible for, I should discipline. Gubderman feels the state should provide , educate , fund, teach, discipline but I’m entitled? Er, yes. Because, there is such a thing as society. We contribute to the state/ community and it supports us in return. Better than some pirates who are only out for personal gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: Boarding school strikes me as the rich equivalent of care to be honest. Parents who can't be arsed or who are unable to look after them for whatever reason. Probably, not wildly dissimilar experiences for those who go through them I imagine. A friend of mine grew up in Zimbabwe but was punted to some high-end all boys joint in Englandshire that his old man/grandfather/etc went to. To compound his misery he spent all his half terms, etc, at some family friend's decaying ancestral pile in Perthshire, where all the locals hated them as they assumed - wrongly - that they were minted. Did him no good in all kinds of ways. Edited January 14 by il Duce McTarkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 32 minutes ago, Gundermann said: Because, there is such a thing as society. We contribute to the state/ community and it supports us in return. Better than some pirates who are only out for personal gain. "He said 'society'" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 39 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: Boarding school strikes me as the rich equivalent of care to be honest. Parents who can't be arsed or who are unable to look after them for whatever reason. Probably, not wildly dissimilar experiences for those who go through them I imagine. I recall an mp being ridiculed for stating that it would be just as worthy sending kids to a boarding school like Gordonstoun than a kids run council unit . Cheaper financially in the long run and I’d guess the “ outcomes “ would be a lot better . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 44 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said: And whether some on here like it or not that attitude starts at home with the parent/guardian. Completely agree . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 18 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said: A friend of mine grew up in Zimbabwe but was punted to some high-end all boys joint in Englandshire that his old man/grandfather/etc went to. To compound his misery he spent all his half terms, etc, at some family friend's decaying ancestral pile in Perthshire, where all the locals hated them as they assumed - wrongly - that they were minted. Did him no good in all kinds of ways. An exes mum was a cook at Edinburgh Academy in the 90’s and they had to work over the Christmas and new year period as every year there would be about half a dozen kids who’s parents would leave them in during the holidays. And I’m not meaning foreign non Christian kids, but Scottish and English Christian families. Parents were probably skiing in the alps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoncurMacdonaldMercer Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 8 hours ago, doctor jambo said: if you took all the Private kids and put them into Irvine Royal Academy with state level funding it would be the best performing school in the country . some of the high-performing state schools benefit from having kids like this and the fact they are also being privately tutored over and above thats not to say these schools aren’t performing well but it’s a bit like Brendan Rodgers looking like a tactical genius in Scotland when he brings on £15 million worth of talent that changes the game with 20 minutes to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 8 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said: so thats 3 people who speak in fluently in Scotland then. It's a bit mad isn't it? Apparently the figure is 50k can speak it another 100k can understand it. Yet there is BBC Alba...and every emergency vehicle has decals in Gaelic... I wonder if it is just for the tourists to take photos of them, for quaintness purposes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddsyJR9 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 19 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said: This happens in parts of the US. There are perfectly decent ways of balancing funding, but the reason the results are better at middle class schools is because highly educated, stable income households have better achieving kids. The US has repeatedly tried moving low performing kids into “better schools” and usually the benefit is minuscule and largely can be tracked to success being easier in a building where the heat works and the mold isn’t rampant. Aye that blasted marxist Tony Blair 🤣 Public education does not prevent selective education at higher grade levels. Obviously. Marrying into the marxist Booth clan wouldn't have helped. Blair did untold damage to the United Kingdom. Gave the snp a platform for goodness sakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddsyJR9 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 25 minutes ago, Tazio said: An exes mum was a cook at Edinburgh Academy in the 90’s and they had to work over the Christmas and new year period as every year there would be about half a dozen kids who’s parents would leave them in during the holidays. And I’m not meaning foreign non Christian kids, but Scottish and English Christian families. Parents were probably skiing in the alps. My mum worked at Edinburgh Academy as a dinner lady, loved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Town Loafer Posted January 14 Author Share Posted January 14 2 minutes ago, doddsyJR9 said: Marrying into the marxist Booth clan wouldn't have helped. Blair did untold damage to the United Kingdom. Gave the snp a platform for goodness sakes. Correct. Changed British society for the worse. A traitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddsyJR9 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, New Town Loafer said: Correct. Changed British society for the worse. A traitor. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddsyJR9 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 22 hours ago, Morgan said: Unfortunately, I’m completely in the dark here. 🤷🏿♂️ It's just that St Marks Park was the border between the YLT Leith Trinity mob, and us the Broughton Boys. We had the duty of keeping them at bay, and we did mostly, had our fair share of casualty's, some more serious than others, but hey ho cowboy. Hope your'e keeping well my man. God Bless the good UK and our armed forces, allies around the world who put their lives on the line to keep an orderly world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the posh bit Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 40 minutes ago, Spellczech said: It's a bit mad isn't it? Apparently the figure is 50k can speak it another 100k can understand it. Yet there is BBC Alba...and every emergency vehicle has decals in Gaelic... I wonder if it is just for the tourists to take photos of them, for quaintness purposes? BBC Alba was set up to fail from the start. It was funded on the premise that it reached audiences far greater than those in Scotland who had a remote understanding of the language. Those sleekit wee Gaelic speaking radges had other ideas though and set about showing live Scottish fitba matches. Targets surpassed every single year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 It’s maybe time that embarrassment returns . I remember when people were ashamed to be unemployed or in receipt of state benefits . it meant you were failing . In a society we all contribute - and merely existing does not constitute an equal contribution . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Lord BJ said: My daughter was pissing me off with some mental behaviours. Was responding to nothing, in a effort to push buttons I threatened to send her to a Swiss Finishing school 😂 (I can't even remember why it was this specific school) She took this threat seriously and moderated her behaviours for a week or so. Anyway after a few week the same problems emerged. So I printed the school brochure and admission forms off and left them lieing about the house and said nothing. Sorted her behaviour right out 😂 Perfectly reasonable tactical move which brought about a satisfactory resolution to an all-round disagreeable situation. My old man was an expert at this type of low-level arseholery for a number of years, until the inevitable escalation when I hit my teens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 11 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: It’s maybe time that embarrassment returns . I remember when people were ashamed to be unemployed or in receipt of state benefits . it meant you were failing . In a society we all contribute - and merely existing does not constitute an equal contribution . We should bring back fat shaming too, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddsyJR9 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, il Duce McTarkin said: We should bring back fat shaming too, imo. Would be a good start to bringing back personal pride. Nothing wrong with looking as good as you can, healthy body, healthy look. Start with getting Channel 4 off the tv please. A blairite disease of a channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Spellczech said: It's a bit mad isn't it? Apparently the figure is 50k can speak it another 100k can understand it. Yet there is BBC Alba...and every emergency vehicle has decals in Gaelic... I wonder if it is just for the tourists to take photos of them, for quaintness purposes? Yrs ludicrous nonsense really . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 8 minutes ago, doddsyJR9 said: Would be a good start to bringing back personal pride. Nothing wrong with looking as good as you can, healthy body, healthy look. Start with getting Channel 4 off the tv please. A blairite disease of a channel. Tony Blair was a good ^***. Dropped a lot of bombs on dodgy foreigners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddsyJR9 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, il Duce McTarkin said: Tony Blair was a good ^***. Dropped a lot of bombs on dodgy foreigners. Mostly upon the UK. I would like to thank Tony Blair by torture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 9 minutes ago, doddsyJR9 said: Mostly upon the UK. I would like to thank Tony Blair by torture. Elsie Tanner would be spinning in her grave if she saw what he did to the uk 🇬🇧 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddsyJR9 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, JudyJudyJudy said: Elsie Tanner would be spinning in her grave if she saw what he did to the uk 🇬🇧 I'll celebrate when that ******* dies, just as the hard left did when my heroine Margaret did. Scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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