Would you send your child to a private school?

[Dawnrazor]

39 minutes ago, OTT said:

I quite liked what they did in Finland(?) where there are no private Schools, so if rich folk want their kids to have a better education, they can donate to the school (and by proxy, improve the experience for everyone). I don't believe your start to life should include such a leg up in Schooling and therefore the rest of your life. 

 

In answer to the OPs question, if I had kids. It would be difficult, on one hand, everyone I know thats went to a private school is a jumped up, entitled little *****. I've not met one thats a pleasure to be around, and they're all gimps of the highest order. On the other hand, they achieve more academically.. I dare say the lionshare of folk at top Uni's came from Private Schools, and those on high paying grad schemes are also predominately from private schools. 

 

So for the education, absolutely. But in terms of the social aspect of it, I'd be very concerned that my bairn would turn into a *****. 

 

I assume the ones that earn their way in on Scholarships are a bit different, so perhaps it just comes down to the person and their background? I.e if your kid as you are now, won the opportunity to get a scholarship, would you deny them? - Absolutely not. 

 

I've honestly never found that.

[PaddysBar]

3 minutes ago, doddsyJR9 said:

Anyway, back to the main point. Of course there should be selective education. The best, most educationally attained would never be noticed in thousands of pupils comprehensives, or be anonymous because of them. I want the best to be selected because of potential, not denied it, due to marxist/communist chips on shoulders. I'll leave it at that for now.

You mean you want the country run by the cream of Eton and the like?

 

That's working out well. 

[OTT]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

I've honestly never found that.

 

My cousins both went to EA, every single one of their mates was an utter, utter welt. When I was at high school, had 3 guys join 2 Stewart Melvilles & 1 from EA, and it genuinely seemed like nobody had ever told them no/ to shut up. 

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, OTT said:

 

My cousins both went to EA, every single one of their mates was an utter, utter welt. When I was at high school, had 3 guys join 2 Stewart Melvilles & 1 from EA, and it genuinely seemed like nobody had ever told them no/ to shut up. 

That's unfortunate, 99% of the ones I've over the years have been really sound.

[doddsyJR9]

Just now, PaddysBar said:

You mean you want the country run by the cream of Eton and the like?

 

That's working out well. 

Margaret Thatcher was a daughter of a Grocer. Ushered in era's of wealth and prosperity, car and home ownership for the plebs, that the left wing have been desperately vehemently trying to overturn for decades. Blair was Fettes, a marxist elitist anti thatcherite hobo, Paddy.

 

[Armageddon]

On 12/01/2024 at 12:58, Bull's-eye said:

Definitely, I work in half a dozen Private schools and they subsidise my exhorbitant lifestyle.

 

Get spending folks 😃👍

Wow that’s a lot of buildings to clean, well done on keeping it together 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

 

Private schools are for folk who want to pay loads to have their boys bummed, Loretto for example, the lads clearly love it too.

 

The family’s are a disaster, all controlling freaks.

 

I think I’ve summed that up pretty well 😎👌🏼😊

[PaddysBar]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

That's unfortunate, 99% of the ones I've over the years have been really sound.

Same for me. Just like 99% of folk I’ve met regardless of which school they went 

[Dawnrazor]

Just now, PaddysBar said:

Same for me. Just like 99% of folk I’ve met regardless of which school they went 

I've met loads over the years shooting and more recently at Rugby, I find them much more confident, not arrogant, and much less "entitled" than some say, much more keen to get out and get things done rather than wanting things "for free" and much more accepting of the working class than the working class are of them and I'm as council as they come!

[PaddysBar]

1 minute ago, doddsyJR9 said:

Margaret Thatcher was a daughter of a Grocer. Ushered in era's of wealth and prosperity, car and home ownership for the plebs, that the left wing have been desperately vehemently trying to overturn for decades. Blair was Fettes, a marxist elitist anti thatcherite hobo, Paddy.

 

Yeah, she really made Scotland, Wales and the north of England rich beyond their wildest dreams. 
 

Her legacy continues to this day, and not in a good way. 
 

She was excellent at divvying up the family silver between the Tory elite though. Good to see those traits continuing today. 

[PaddysBar]

Just now, Dawnrazor said:

I've met loads over the years shooting and more recently at Rugby, I find them much more confident, not arrogant, and much less "entitled" than some say, much more keen to get out and get things done rather than wanting things "for free" and much more accepting of the working class than the working class are of them and I'm as council as they come!

I wasn’t disagreeing with you, merely stating most folk are sound, with the exception of a few wankers.  
 

Not sure why folk want to make such a big deal of a divide that doesn’t really exist in my opinion. 

[droid]

13 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

😂😂😂😂😂

 

in the real world, our society doesn’t give equal opportunity to people education wise. Never has and never will. You don’t get a equal education amongst two states schools along the road 🤷‍♂️

 

Thats nothing to do with private education but more to with the standard of education in the state sector. A standard that has been falling in Scotland for some time and objectively not a particularly high stabdard. 

 

The availability of private education does not determine the standard of state system FFS. 

 

People don’t sent their kids to education in a belief it will make them ‘smarter’, their education level is pretty much determined by genes. It’s about providing them with an environment and opportunity to be the best version of themselves.

 

State schools are designed for the lowest common denominator. This means resources are focused on those who will waste them most 🤷🏻‍♂️. That’s not the case with private school, where the teaching is tailored to individual pupils. 
 

One of the main reason the environment is better at private schools is due to the nature of the parents. They undoubtably view education much more important than most people (certainly someone like you) and certainly more than the state do. This does tend to produce more focussed pupils in general terms, albeit kids and families still have issues irrespective of finances. Whilst, having the financial means to send your kids to school means you have done financially fairly well. That's probably in part being smarter than your average bear. That gets reflected in kids genes and educational level. 
 

State school standards may be acceptable to most people but I want better opportunities for my kids. I will give my kids every opportunity in life they can get. You might think that's unfair but who gives a duck, life ain't fair. A lesson people need to learn early on. 
 

Some of the inverted snobbery of this thread is mental. Hey though prejudiced people struggle to hide their prejudices 😉
 

I don't look it at wasting cash by the way. I look as an investment in my children and their future. Like all investments their is no guarantee it pays off but early signs are good and past history tends to support the notion that private education result in better outcomes. 

As aside, in the real world private health care is far superior to NHS. Something being ‘free’ or state run does not result in a good quality of service. Actually results in the opposite, as we see with education as well. It results in the bear minimum of service. People will choose private providers as they provide a better level of service. Nothing surprising about that. 

 

Relying on the state is the trademark of a fool. Education standards in Scotland have been falling for some time. You may be happy sending your kids to a failing system, I ain't. My kids are way more important than that. 

3 children all in private school, this is why 🙌🏻

[OTT]

4 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

That's unfortunate, 99% of the ones I've over the years have been really sound.

 

All subjective, my experiences haven't been great - but thats not to say they're all bad people. Had a mate from Primary go to Watsons actually, and he'd always make the effort to stop and chat when I bumped into him, although could see the kind of "posher" stuff rubbing off on him as the years went by. Another that went to Fettes who straight up wouldn't acknowledge me... 

 

I probably would send my kids there for the education side of things, but based on my experiences with most folk I've met from private schools, I'd be a wee bit concerned about how their personality would develop.

[doddsyJR9]

Just now, PaddysBar said:

Yeah, she really made Scotland, Wales and the north of England rich beyond their wildest dreams. 
 

Her legacy continues to this day, and not in a good way. 
 

She was excellent at divvying up the family silver between the Tory elite though. Good to see those traits continuing today. 

Same old left wing closed shop, elitist jingoism. The snp, plaid cymru, labour etc hated thatcherism that opposed union self serving elitism. Same old same old closed shop chip on shoulder self serving illiberism. Stay cool Paddy.

[Dawnrazor]

1 minute ago, PaddysBar said:

I wasn’t disagreeing with you, merely stating most folk are sound, with the exception of a few wankers.  
 

Not sure why folk want to make such a big deal of a divide that doesn’t really exist in my opinion. 

No, I agree👍

[Jeffros Furios]

4 minutes ago, doddsyJR9 said:

Margaret Thatcher was a daughter of a Grocer. Ushered in era's of wealth and prosperity, car and home ownership for the plebs, that the left wing have been desperately vehemently trying to overturn for decades. overBlair was Fettes, a marxist elitist anti thatcherite hobo, Paddy.

 

Thats why you need to vote National Front ..  deport the commies and marxists ..we need a Trump like figure to restore nationalist values .

[PaddysBar]

1 minute ago, doddsyJR9 said:

Same old left wing closed shop, elitist jingoism. The snp, plaid cymru, labour etc hated thatcherism that opposed union self serving elitism. Same old same old closed shop chip on shoulder self serving illiberism. Stay cool Paddy.

Nighty night doddsy.

[doddsyJR9]

Just now, Jeffros Furios said:

Thats why you need to vote National Front ..  deport the commies and marxists ..we need a Trump like figure to restore nationalist values .

If being down with the plebicite, upsets you my man, then it pleases me. I have a voice and I'm not afraid to use it, does that frighten you, alarm you? That I'm a pleb with a voice?

[Dawnrazor]

3 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

All subjective, my experiences haven't been great - but thats not to say they're all bad people. Had a mate from Primary go to Watsons actually, and he'd always make the effort to stop and chat when I bumped into him, although could see the kind of "posher" stuff rubbing off on him as the years went by. Another that went to Fettes who straight up wouldn't acknowledge me... 

 

I probably would send my kids there for the education side of things, but based on my experiences with most folk I've met from private schools, I'd be a wee bit concerned about how their personality would develop.

Subjective of course.

I just find, the ones I've met, have a very positive attitude to life and to work.

One of the partners in the company I work for has two kids, the son is a Paramedic in London, he worked for deliveroo riding a bike around Battersea while he was studying, the daughter is at uni doing bio engineering, she was working behind the bar and waiting tables at one of the local restaurants, both brilliant kids.

They both went through the Public School System.

There's good and bad in every background👍

[Jeffros Furios]

3 minutes ago, doddsyJR9 said:

If being down with the plebicite, upsets you my man, then it pleases me. I have a voice and I'm not afraid to use it, does that frighten you, alarm you? That I'm a pleb with a voice?

I'm a quivering wreck ..

[ri Alban]

No-one knows what they'd do if they had the proper money to buy what they like. There's private and then there's the real deal,  that no ***** on here can afford. The bribery sort of wealth. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

44 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

I've honestly never found that.

 

Me neither.

[PaddysBar]

34 minutes ago, droid said:

3 children all in private school, this is why 🙌🏻

Im genuinely interested as to what material difference to their lives you think sending them to private school will make?

 

I get you think it’s giving them a better chance of succeeding but if they’re bright kids they’ll do well anyway?

Edited January 13 by PaddysBar

[Morgan]

@doddsyJR9 enjoying a pleasant night on JKB.   

[doddsyJR9]

Just now, Morgan said:

@doddsyJR9 enjoying a pleasant night on JKB.   

Hiya pal. Hope you're well Morgan. As you know, Broughton born and bred. Love a good night among neebs. 

[Morgan]

29 minutes ago, doddsyJR9 said:

Hiya pal. Hope you're well Morgan. As you know, Broughton born and bred. Love a good night among neebs. 

 

Unfortunately, I’m completely in the dark here.  🤷🏿‍♂️

[il Duce McTarkin]

1 hour ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Thats why you need to vote National Front ..  deport the commies and marxists ..we need a Trump like figure to restore nationalist values .

 

 

45 minutes ago, PaddysBar said:

Im genuinely interested as to what material difference to their lives you think sending them to private school will make?

 

 

Contacts and cronyism, dear boy. That old school tie opens doors that you wouldn't  even know existed.

 

[PaddysBar]

8 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

 

 

Contacts and cronyism, dear boy. That old school tie opens doors that you wouldn't  even know existed.

 

I appreciate you’re not being entirely serious but I’ve worked in finance in Edinburgh for 30 years and can genuinely say I’ve never seen the old school tie working to the advantage of someone who had less ability than someone who went to a state school. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

5 minutes ago, PaddysBar said:

I appreciate you’re not being entirely serious but I’ve worked in finance in Edinburgh for 30 years and can genuinely say I’ve never seen the old school tie working to the advantage of someone who had less ability than someone who went to a state school. 

 

It certainly helps with careers in the, eh, 'establishment', where simply being the most talented doesn't cut the mustard.

 

 

Edited January 13 by il Duce McTarkin

[PaddysBar]

1 minute ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

It certainly helps with careers in the, eh, 'establishment'.

Establishment? Do you mean government? If so, I don’t think some bams on kickback sending their kids to st serfs need to worry about Westminster. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

12 minutes ago, PaddysBar said:

Establishment? Do you mean government? If so, I don’t think some bams on kickback sending their kids to st serfs need to worry about Westminster. 

 

Fair enough. 

That's why you work in finance. 😊👍

 

 

Edited January 13 by il Duce McTarkin

[PaddysBar]

12 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

Fair enough. 

That's why you work in finance. 😊👍

 

 

Just let me know if you’ve got a point you actually want to discuss👍

[Watt-Zeefuik]

6 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

You could, but then all the private school kids will now need spaces at state schools.

They did that in NZ and rapidly backtracked as the state system became overwhelmed .

and anyway all that would happen is a housing battle in certain areas where the better off access better education by catchment .

Best results ?

Mearns, Jordanhill 

Reason?

Middle class.

This just buys advantage in another way.

This happens in parts of the US. There are perfectly decent ways of balancing funding, but the reason the results are better at middle class schools is because highly educated, stable income households have better achieving kids. The US has repeatedly tried moving low performing kids into “better schools” and usually the benefit is minuscule and largely can be tracked to success being easier in a building where the heat works and the mold isn’t rampant.

 

3 hours ago, doddsyJR9 said:

Anyway, back to the main point. Of course there should be selective education. The best, most educationally attained would never be noticed in thousands of pupils comprehensives, or be anonymous because of them. I want the best to be selected because of potential, not denied it, due to marxist/communist chips on shoulders. I'll leave it at that for now.

Aye that blasted marxist Tony Blair 🤣

 

Public education does not prevent selective education at higher grade levels. Obviously.

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

8 hours ago, PaddysBar said:

Just let me know if you’ve got a point you actually want to discuss👍

 

I've made my point, you disagreed in a condescending manner. You obviously know better. Nothing left to discuss. Just let me know if you want a hand pulling your head out from your arsehole. 👍

 

 

Edited January 14 by il Duce McTarkin

[periodictabledancer]

9 hours ago, PaddysBar said:

I appreciate you’re not being entirely serious but I’ve worked in finance in Edinburgh for 30 years and can genuinely say I’ve never seen the old school tie working to the advantage of someone who had less ability than someone who went to a state school. 

That must be incredibly disappointing : all that money spent to no advantage. 

Let's not kid ourselves : there's one very big reason why kids go to private/grammar schools and the argument "oh, state schools are crap" doesn't wash because it's very easy for people of wealth to buy houses in the postcodes of the best state schools.

For the record : I don't have an issue with them. I would've used them for my kids as explained up the thread but the idea that parents aren't buying/obtaining  some kind of advantage is nonsense. 

[Harry Potter]

, No.

[PaddysBar]

1 hour ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

I've made my point, you disagreed in a condescending manner. You obviously know better. Nothing left to discuss. Just let me know if you want a hand pulling your head out from your arsehole. 👍

 

 

If you re-read our exchange, there’s only one of us being condescending, and rude.

Edited January 14 by PaddysBar

[il Duce McTarkin]

6 minutes ago, PaddysBar said:

If you re-read our exchange, there’s only one of us being condescending, and rude.

 

I'm glad that you're big enough to recognise that. 

 

Yours'

 

Some bam on Kickback, etc.

[henrysmithsgloves]

What about faith based schools?

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

2 hours ago, periodictabledancer said:

That must be incredibly disappointing : all that money spent to no advantage. 

Let's not kid ourselves : there's one very big reason why kids go to private/grammar schools and the argument "oh, state schools are crap" doesn't wash because it's very easy for people of wealth to buy houses in the postcodes of the best state schools.

For the record : I don't have an issue with them. I would've used them for my kids as explained up the thread but the idea that parents aren't buying/obtaining  some kind of advantage is nonsense. 

Obtaining advantage is probably a fair point. Buying it, not so much because that implies that they wouldn’t take a different alternative.

 

In our circumstances, we live in a (pretty small) terrace house which we’ve spent money doing up over a long period of time. To move to a better catchment area, we’d get something no bigger and in need of loads of work. In all it would basically cost as much as the private school we’re paying for. Makes no sense.
 

We don’t have that much money. We’re not badly off either but I can’t exactly say we’re paying for private school with the leftovers from the family yacht. 
 

Equally, I get that some folk are minted/snobs and want the prestige of private school brands. They are ******s. But that’s not us.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

15 minutes ago, henrysmithsgloves said:

What about faith based schools?

Perfectly fine provided they don’t encourage segregation, they teach the proper curriculum and they are open minded.

[periodictabledancer]

55 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

State education being crap is undoubtably the reason people send their kids to private education.

 

 

 

 

That's simply not true now nor in the past. It may be the case for some parents but not all.

I don't know why you talk of a single area : I mentioned the ability of people of means to move to the postcodes where the better state schools are : which they do, because it costs more to buy a house there - as I knw from personal experience. 

[periodictabledancer]

34 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Perfectly fine provided they don’t encourage segregation, they teach the proper curriculum and they are open minded.

Hoew can they not encourage segregation ?

Are Jewish/Muslim schools welcoming to other faiths - of course not (I'm not suggesting they are hostile t but these schools exist because certain sections of society don't want to intergrate) .

And there had been an explosion of faith based school in England under the Tories (so I'm not accused of bias). 

 

But that's maybe another argument for another day. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Just now, periodictabledancer said:

Hoew can they not encourage segregation ?

Are Jewish/Muslim schools welcoming to other faiths - of course not (I'm not suggesting they are hostile t but these schools exist because certain sections of society don't want to intergrate) .

And there had been an explosion of faith based school in England under the Tories (so I'm not accused of bias). 

 

But that's maybe another argument for another day. 

I hear you. It’s a definite concern. But if they can operate in an inclusive way, I’ve no problem with them.

[periodictabledancer]

40 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Obtaining advantage is probably a fair point. Buying it, not so much because that implies that they wouldn’t take a different alternative.

 

In our circumstances, we live in a (pretty small) terrace house which we’ve spent money doing up over a long period of time. To move to a better catchment area, we’d get something no bigger and in need of loads of work. In all it would basically cost as much as the private school we’re paying for. Makes no sense.
 

We don’t have that much money. We’re not badly off either but I can’t exactly say we’re paying for private school with the leftovers from the family yacht. 
 

Equally, I get that some folk are minted/snobs and want the prestige of private school brands. They are ******s. But that’s not us.

The reason I say buy/obtain is simply that some kids get scholarships, the majority pay. 

 

Funnily enough I bought the Sunday Times today to catch up on the PO scandal and found an article in their supplement about private schools and found this -

" ... the 7% of British pupils who attend fee paying schools will get the best grades, places at the best universities , the best paid jobs, and the best connections even as society around them strives for equality".

 

This country is severely lacking in social mobility and private schools entrench that position. 

[doctor jambo]

14 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said:

That must be incredibly disappointing : all that money spent to no advantage. 

Let's not kid ourselves : there's one very big reason why kids go to private/grammar schools and the argument "oh, state schools are crap" doesn't wash because it's very easy for people of wealth to buy houses in the postcodes of the best state schools.

For the record : I don't have an issue with them. I would've used them for my kids as explained up the thread but the idea that parents aren't buying/obtaining  some kind of advantage is nonsense. 

The advantage is perhaps not what you think.

1- my kids friends are all driven and ambitious- they drive each other on.

2- They all plan for uni

3- There are NO badly behaved kids- issues are minor and dealt with swiftly and heavily

4-yes they drink, but it’s at parents houses, not streets/parks/ other kids houses so it’s safer and supervised 

 

the advantage of private school is being surrounded with like minded parents and kids and no distractions.

 

if you took all the Private kids and put them into Irvine Royal Academy with state level funding it would be the best performing school in the country .

[periodictabledancer]

4 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

I hear you. It’s a definite concern. But if they can operate in an inclusive way, I’ve no problem with them.

Weirdly when I first moved down here , the local RC high school had a very good reputation compared to the many non denominational and I know non-RCs who sent their kids there purely for the education. 

Without starting a debate on that prticular point, I'd simply say it is not an issue down here. Thankfully. 

[periodictabledancer]

10 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The advantage is perhaps not what you think.

1- my kids friends are all driven and ambitious- they drive each other on.

2- They all plan for uni

3- There are NO badly behaved kids- issues are minor and dealt with swiftly and heavily

4-yes they drink, but it’s at parents houses, not streets/parks/ other kids houses so it’s safer and supervised 

 

the advantage of private school is being surrounded with like minded parents and kids and no distractions.

 

if you took all the Private kids and put them into Irvine Royal Academy with state level funding it would be the best performing school in the country .

I just quoted the Sunday Times view on the advantages of private education. 

 

I won't reply on a point by point basis as I've already covered some of it up the thread but I know evry well from my local boys private school of the problems they have. I've had workmates who went there decades ago and I know the kids of my mates who went there in recent years.

 

I know about drunkeness in and out of school (the teachers have  been seen in pubs asking publicans not to sell to their pupils - they have a LOT of overseas people who only go home twice a year and rarely see their families). I know about the dugs problems - past & present - and I know that people have been expelled when they should have been prosecuted. In short- kids are kids and private schools , while likely better, aren't  havens of decorum.

 

Re your last para : the  town I live in has a grammar school and a boys private school and local kids can apply for  a place by passing 11Plus and an interview.  Now, imagine the impact on the local, state schools when the best of the local kids are siphoned off into private schools every year. 

Incidentally , when I say "the best" I mean the ones who have been privately coached and tutored and schooled into passing the 11Plus exam and not necessarily the most able academically. They also get coached in passing the interview. I know teachers who make a fortune out of it. 

Edited January 14 by periodictabledancer

[Section Q]

A friend of mine was a very talented gymnast who gained a scholarship to a fee paying school in England. Princess Anne's daughter also went there at the same time. However, after three years, my friend had an accident which resulted in a back injury which meant she lost her scholarship and had to return to a state school system. She found she was so far behind in her schooling, she had to get private tuition just to maintain her status for her age. She went on to enjoy a successful career as a health professional but maintains she owesnone of her achievements to her time in a fee paying school. Some may have different experiences.

[il Duce McTarkin]

1 hour ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I've never personally witnessed the old tie network. Maybe as it didn't apply to me 😂 However, I move in circles where it would probably be obvious.

 

 

Whitehall?

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I don't have a problem with them. If people want their kids to have a religious focus that's their choice. 
 

I know people who send their kids to Gaelic speaking school, for education and financial reasons. The kids are in tiny classes and get paid to be taxi’d to and from school. Something to do with keeping the language alive. In fairness both kids speak in fluently as does their mother. 

so thats 3 people who speak in fluently in Scotland then.