New Town Loafer Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Private schools are a very divisive issue. For many parents with access to money they are a legitimate means of providing a great education for their children, not just academically but in terms of physical education, musical opportunities etc. For others, wealthy or not, they represent much of what is wrong with historic and contemporary British society and serve to prolong the class divide that exists today. They can also foster an entitled, arrogant attitude in the attendees. Additionally, the concept that an education is something that can be bought does not sit well with many. Growing up, I was educated at local state comprehensives, private boarding schools and international schools, so got the full schooling experience. So, if money was no object would you send your children to a private school? If so, why? If no, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
periodictabledancer Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 No, I wouldn't : and I say that as a parent whose kids (boy & girl) both passed 11-Plus exams down here and could have gone to private school (the boy) / grammar school (daughter) . My daughter point blank refused to go because she had no friends there and knew absolutley no one. My lad deliberatley flunked the interview (IMO) because they didn't have a football team. 🙄 The one thing I've come to realise is that very commonly in my exprience , kids who don't attend state schools do not have a rounded education or a rounded life experience through their educational journey. I'm not bigging up state schools by any means but the products from non-state schools often stick out like sore thumbs socially & culturally. And that's before we get to the rampant snobbery & elitism that surrounds it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 10 minutes ago, New Town Loafer said: Private schools are a very divisive issue. For many parents with access to money they are a legitimate means of providing a great education for their children, not just academically but in terms of physical education, musical opportunities etc. For others, wealthy or not, they represent much of what is wrong with historic and contemporary British society and serve to prolong the class divide that exists today. They can also foster an entitled, arrogant attitude in the attendees. Additionally, the concept that an education is something that can be bought does not sit well with many. Growing up, I was educated at local state comprehensives, private boarding schools and international schools, so got the full schooling experience. So, if money was no object would you send your children to a private school? If so, why? If no, why not? The short answer is yes. They may not in the end get better results than children from the state system. As I firmly believe you only get out for as much as you the scholar put in. If, you don't put alot in, you won't get alot out. However, what you do have is the old school tie, and that still opens a lot of doors, whether we like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallPaul Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Do you want you kid to have the best start in life and best chance of success? Then I think almost any parent would. I don't agree however with boarding schools, why have kids to pack them off and only see them during the holidays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 It's a tough one tbh. My missus and her brother went to private schools. I think at Private Schools they try and force you down the academic route e.g. to becoming a lawyer, doctor etc . and that's not for everyone. I know a lot of their friends as well that they went to school with and not one of them is academic in any way. My missus brother for example would have loved to have been a tradie but because he went to a private school those avenues weren't really open to him. Where as I grew up in a rough area, didn't really go to school, took a shit tonne of drugs but got an apprenticeship as a joiner and have numerous degrees and qualifications. That said, what you do get from a private school is manners and how to behave properly. How to be sociable, confident and decent. Perhaps more independent as well. Also, if you're kids CV says they went to a private school regardless of their academic achievements, that goes a long way in itself because you're getting a more well rounded individual imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffros Furios Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Yes , but don't send them to Watson's as that's for commoners . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter McGavin Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 A lot of private schools allow hard working folk to excel further than they would at state schools, which can be seriously underfunded, understaffed and overcrowded. Although some private schools seem to be breeding grounds for entitled, jumped up gimps. If I had kids, I'd rather send them to a decent state school and encourage them to work hard, rather than send them to a private school and risk them becomimg pompous wee a*rseholes who expect life to be handed to them on a plate, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Town Loafer Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 3 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said: A lot of private schools allow hard working folk to excel further than they would at state schools, which can be seriously underfunded, understaffed and overcrowded. Although some private schools seem to be breeding grounds for entitled, jumped up gimps. If I had kids, I'd rather send them to a decent state school and encourage them to work hard, rather than send them to a private school and risk them becomimg pompous wee a*rseholes who expect life to be handed to them on a plate, to be honest. To be honest, I have found that this is usually down to the parents. If you go to a private school but your folks are fine then you'll be the same. If your folks are stuck-up arseholes, you'll likely be the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kila Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 I think it'd depend on the reputation of the public school on offer. A more rounded education seeing different walks of life is a good thing, and private schools tend to be more elitist in attitude. But if the public school is a shitehole with major issues, then it'd be a no brainer. Though having a private school education doesn't necessarily open doors. Someone achieving high grades at a poorly performing public school might be seen as a better candidate from that of an elite private school with the same grades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull's-eye Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Definitely, I work in half a dozen Private schools and they subsidise my exhorbitant lifestyle. Get spending folks 😃👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moogsy Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 No chance, but I’m lucky enough to live in an area with a good state school. If I lived in an area with a shite state school and somehow got the opportunity to send my kids private I’d bite your hand off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 I would send my child if I had kids to a public school. I would say I got a public school education in a private school.i wouldn't want my child to be arrogant, private school kids in the norm arr extremely arrogant and lazy. That's something I am not and wouldn't want them to be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 I think it is a minefield, especially when you have multiple children. Below are my experiences - there are learning points for parents in there I reckon: I went to state primary and private day secondary school. My mother had to do quite a lot of coaching prior to the entrance exams to bring me up to standard, though I did pass 3/3. I had to do 3 because my older sister had failed the entrance exam for the one private school she was put forward for (panic attack), and gone to the local state secondary. I had to do a presentation about which school I wanted to go to, and then my parents sent me to a different one anyway!... It was 1.5 to 2hrs away by public transport each way (Underground - Bus - Walk), so from age 13 I had 3-4hrs of comuting per day... I have an aversion to long commutes even now at age 49! Haha Once at the school, I started a year behind on French and never really caught up and it was one of the two 2's I got at Standard Grade then I dropped languages. However, I think in the 80s and 90s all British education started teaching languages far too late... At sport I was also already a year too late for the rugby teams, and even though i showed talent I could not get promoted up squads which appeared to be set in stone from P7...Because my parents were paying and my father was working down south from Sunday night to Friday night, I also couldn't get them to take me to a rugby club outside of school. I didn't get to go on any school trips that my mates went on to exotic places like Courcheval and Mt Kilimanjaro as this was considered unfair on my sister who didn't have these opportunities. It was never explained to me at the time though, only years later... At Higher grade I still needed an additional tutor for English outside of school as the top set had a teacher who was stuck in decades past and insisted on using the hardest texts - IIRC Blake, and Tennyson's Morte D'Arthur as poetry; Graham Green's Our Man in Havana for prose. My tutor had me do Hawk Roosting and Orwell's Down and Out in Paris and London instead and I ended up with an A band 2 which the old duffer at my school was amazed at, but happily took the credit for I'm sure! Also because most of the boys came from the other side of the city I didn't see them outside of school and never made lasting friendships. I have no involvement with the Alumni/Old boy network etc I have no particularly fond memories of the place unlike the people who write in to the Alumni magazine the school still sends me... On the plus side I was never bullied, but that may have been because I was far too acid-tongued to let that happen, had a good "killer" look, and could fight if I had to, as bullying did of course happen at the school... I would not send my child there unless I lived in the same catchment area as others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabienleclerq Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 I think it depends on disposable income and the child themselves. I think a bright child will achieve good marks anyway but a middle of the road one will likely do better at a private school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 51 minutes ago, rudi must stay said: I would send my child if I had kids to a public school. I would say I got a public school education in a private school.i wouldn't want my child to be arrogant, private school kids in the norm arr extremely arrogant and lazy. That's something I am not and wouldn't want them to be I thought some boys at my school were arrogant, until I ran into the Eton boys at a party at University...No "Hi, what's you name?", their first questions were "What school did you go to? What does your father do? Where do you come from?"...Pathetic. They were accepting of me, but I was not accepting of them - Utter Bellends living vicariously, hanging off their father's coat-tails... What I would say is that parents of kids on scholarships/bursaries have to keep a lookout for signs of bullying, as one of my pals in the year above at school was such a pupil and he got some really nasty comments about his parents lack of wealth. Some kids pick on any perceived weakness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EH11_2NL Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, moogsy said: No chance, but I’m lucky enough to live in an area with a good state school. If I lived in an area with a shite state school and somehow got the opportunity to send my kids private I’d bite your hand off. Lithgae by any chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moogsy Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 minute ago, EH11_2NL said: Lithgae by any chance? Nah north west Edinburgh, Royal High catchment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucky Thompson Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 100%. You would have to be an arsehole to deny your kid the best education just because it's against your principles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Definitely. I'm not sure if the actual education is any better, but I believe it to be of a more 'personal' experience. Plus, wrong as it may be, the old school tie network definitely exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boof Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Not a ****ing chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il Duce McTarkin Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kaiser Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 If I was teaching there.....then yes. As I'm awesome AND a Jambo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Whittaker's Tache Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Remove their charity status and shut the lot oh them. A 2 tier education system should not exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticJambo Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) I'm still not sure, with one having just left, and another in 3rd year, at state school. Very difficult to say whether they would have turned out differently, and by that I mean more academically rewarded had they gone private. I'm sure private schools probably foster a better environment in which to buckle down and get the curriculum done, I don't get that feeling at the school they've attended. Of course I'm sure the teachers do their best but I get the feeling that there are a significant portion of the year that just aren't particularly interested in school, and that rubs off on others who are somewhere between gifted and middling. I'd get the divs tf, and let the others get on with boosting each other up the academic tree! Edited January 12 by ArcticJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 minute ago, Brian Whittaker's Tache said: Remove their charity status and shut the lot oh them. A 2 tier education system should not exist. Written like a true Communist... There is a 3-tier system as some people educate their own children. I expect these are the people who know they can do better than the State system but don't have the money to pay for the Independent School system. I admire these people. There are a few comments above that are resonant. Private schools do push academic achievement, and push you towards professions. I was strong academically so got good highers, but I cannot deny that my school was poor at teaching art, music, sport, and didn't even touch the likes of cooking. We got one term (10 weeks) of pottery and woodwork. You ain't going to come out of that school with a hunger to do a trade... I probably failed to make the most of social bonding and Old School Tie bla-bla but then unless I'd stayed in Glasgow which I was never going to do, it didn't matter... I expect this aspect is far stronger for boarding schools. Otherwise why would the Royal Family spend 47k per year to send the future king to Eton given that previous generations have come away with hardly any qualifications...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Yes and I do but mainly because the secondary in our catchment is shite, moving house to a decent catchment would be far more expensive and even though I’d much rather support state education, I’m a hypocrite when it comes to my own kids’ futures. Anyone who does like this can suck my hairy balls tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joondalupjambo Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 We did in Oz simply because it was the school 10 minute walk from our house and also it was pretty cheap at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 12 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said: I'm still not sure, with one having just left, and another in 3rd year, at state school. Very difficult to say whether they would have turned out differently, and by that I mean more academically rewarded had they gone private. I'm sure private schools probably foster a better environment in which to buckle down and get the curriculum done, I don't get that feeling at the school they've attended. Of course I'm sure the teachers do their best but I get the feeling that there are a significant portion of the year that just aren't particularly interested in school, and that rubs off on others who are somewhere between gifted and middling. I'd get the divs tf, and let the others get on with boosting each other up the academic tree! I don't know anything much about state education at secondary level. However, the one advantage of an independent school has is the sets/streaming of ability levels. I started Secondary 1 in the A set, which meant I was top set class for everything. I then had exams in all the subjects at the end of the year. I had to do well enough to remain in the A set - it was a pride thing - and I found my first year to be my most challenging academically as I was playing catch-up. By S3, you narrowed down the curriculum via selections and the sets became subject-specific ie I could have been in the B set for English and French but I was good at exams and managed to hold my A set status, even though my parents had been told I would likely drop down... The upshot of all this though was that I was never in the same classes as the non-academic kids (unlike primary school). FFS there was one guy in my class who had a briefcase rather than a schoolbag!!! Haha Education inevitably caters to the lowest denominator, especially if that person has attention difficulties, is disruptive or is just a "div"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byyy The Light Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Had this discussion a few times given my kids are 11 and 7. It wouldn't be my first choice but if either of them was struggling for whatever reason or I thought they would get on better elsewhere then I'd send them private. The main reason is I think your kids seeing all sides of life, well off, single families, poverty, disadvantaged children. Some absolute bams thrown in to the mix along the way. All of that helps them develop as a person and helps them to deal with life when they are older. Privately educated kids don't typically get to see this side of the world and it's very evident when they first come in to the workforce. I personally believe parenting is the biggest factor on the whole, regardless of what school they go to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 I do. One now half way through a law degree . One accepted for medicine for next year and my youngest wants to be a dentist . I was offered a scholarship for fettes and refused to go- an error on my part . Societal breakdown means our local schools are horrific and run by out of control kids. Its not fair on the academic kids to be lumped in with those with no inclination to either behave nor learn . There should be grammar schools to allow academic kids of whatever background to learn in a conducive environment. It has, however, escalated in cost to an unbelievable extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 My wife went to private school whereas I went to local comprehensive. Our kids went to local school and they all did well thanks to the teachers and their own work ethic. Agree with those who say type of school is secondary to the type of parenting provided. Being sent to a private school won't make up for shit parenting. There's plenty kids who go private schools fail. Only exception is where if you can afford it, and kids have dyslexia or need extra help, then private is a good option as they have all facilities available that local schools don't have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 55 minutes ago, Brian Whittaker's Tache said: Remove their charity status and shut the lot oh them. A 2 tier education system should not exist. Nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
151 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Never given it any thought tbh, probably because I only know of one person to use a private school and they just work a normal job anyone could get. If I had the money where it was an option it would be whatever I thought made my child happiest. Depends on whether you value titles and power/job over happiness really. There will be plenty of "non-academic" kids at private schools just because their parents want them to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) I spent most of my youth in public school. Because of social issues, I transferred to a private school for a couple of years. What a colossal waste of money. Not that test scores are everything but they went down in comparison to others' progress every year I was in the private school. As soon as I was back in the public high schools, they started going up again. I don't blame my parents because I was in a bad situation that had nothing to do with academics. I wish I'd had better options, but the private school was at best the least bad one, and I wish I'd gone back to public a year earlier than I did. Absolutely hated that place and the pompous, lazy rich kids that were most of the student body. I finished at a public school. I now have three degrees including a Ph.D., all of them from US top 25/world top 100-level institutions. My eldest is in a phenomenal public school now and her brother will join her next year. It's bit run down around the edges but the teachers are all in. They will meet kids that don't all look and think like them, and that's fantastic. The idiots in our local general assembly keep pushing for private school vouchers. No way in hell I'd touch them if I have any other reasonable options. There are places I know where the schools are in such a terrible state (as in the buildings are falling apart) that I can see an actual reason. But I think most of the time, private schools are a terrible option driven by bias. (edited my previous OTT take a bit) Edited January 12 by Watt-Zeefuik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Brian Whittaker's Tache said: Remove their charity status and shut the lot oh them. A 2 tier education system should not exist. It depends on the tier. State schools are now rammed with “behavioural” issues that other kids should not need to deal with. No structure, no discipline, no respect , no boundaries . its why Scotland’s academic record is flushing down the toilet . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticJambo Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Spellczech said: I don't know anything much about state education at secondary level. However, the one advantage of an independent school has is the sets/streaming of ability levels. I started Secondary 1 in the A set, which meant I was top set class for everything. I then had exams in all the subjects at the end of the year. I had to do well enough to remain in the A set - it was a pride thing - and I found my first year to be my most challenging academically as I was playing catch-up. By S3, you narrowed down the curriculum via selections and the sets became subject-specific ie I could have been in the B set for English and French but I was good at exams and managed to hold my A set status, even though my parents had been told I would likely drop down... The upshot of all this though was that I was never in the same classes as the non-academic kids (unlike primary school). FFS there was one guy in my class who had a briefcase rather than a schoolbag!!! Haha Education inevitably caters to the lowest denominator, especially if that person has attention difficulties, is disruptive or is just a "div"... No doubt, there was an element of not wanting to 'fail' so to speak, a sense of pride, and this spurred you on to maintain your A-grade status/class. Streaming, I'd say provides peer pressure and in some ways (not for all mind) helps to drive those on, who may have dropped slightly had they been part of a mixed ability class. Don't think I'm explaining/describing it right but I think you probably get my drift. I get the feeling that the state Scottish Education of late has become more inclusive, which perhaps isn't a bad thing generally speaking but for the purposes of trying to achieve excellence among those below the group that will do well irrespective, it is failing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 26 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said: No doubt, there was an element of not wanting to 'fail' so to speak, a sense of pride, and this spurred you on to maintain your A-grade status/class. Streaming, I'd say provides peer pressure and in some ways (not for all mind) helps to drive those on, who may have dropped slightly had they been part of a mixed ability class. Don't think I'm explaining/describing it right but I think you probably get my drift. I get the feeling that the state Scottish Education of late has become more inclusive, which perhaps isn't a bad thing generally speaking but for the purposes of trying to achieve excellence among those below the group that will do well irrespective, it is failing! I suspect so. I'm not sure about the thinking behind such inclusiveness. I know I suffered from it in primary school as you had widely disparate levels of ability in one classroom and the cleverer kids were left alone to get on with it whilst the teacher's time was heavily weighted towards helping those struggling, and disciplining those who had given up. In my primary school class there were 33 of us and only 10 boys. I would say 4 of the boys were at one end of the scale and the other 6 were at the other extreme and most of the girls were in between, though some were amongst each grouping of boys too...No idea if that was typical or anomalous. I am not an educator but it would be interesting to hear from someone who is - is the inclusiveness for the kids or is it for the parents as parents simply don't like the idea of their child being visibly behind and streaming/setting makes it very "out there". Appears to me as someone who has no involvement in education this century that whilst more kids are being identified as having increased needs, there also seems to be no such thing as stupid - everyone struggling has a condition and I'm unsure if this a justification or merely an excuse... However, as I noted above, education of a wide spectrum of abilities will always gravitate towards the lowest denominator, where the greatest need lies. It did in my primary school. I suspect the state system has it wrong, but they won't admit it. Socialism rules in schools. You have to wait for University until it becomes more of a meritocracy. Edited January 12 by Spellczech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kaiser Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 From my expertise of mainstream secondary and speaking with friends and colleagues who have taught private....the biggest difference is challenging behaviour and disruptive lessons. You will see a marked reduction in private from state (not to say it doesn't exist) but lessons will flow easier in private with less disruption. Yes...some private schools will carry a sense of gravitas with their name but probably only in certain fields after school such as perhaps political jobs. Ultimately it will be what the young persons ambition and drive is, how they've been brought up by their parents etc that will determine their future. It's clear you can be successful regardless of your background and education. Private schools perhaps offer a helping step but it won't define you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) If you want your kids to grow up to be utter tadgers, wire in. Why don't you pay to have them home schooled as they probably have no mates anyway. Hawl, Nae mates, you're getting snuggied fae that lamppost. Edited January 12 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 4 hours ago, Spellczech said: I thought some boys at my school were arrogant, until I ran into the Eton boys at a party at University...No "Hi, what's you name?", their first questions were "What school did you go to? What does your father do? Where do you come from?"...Pathetic. They were accepting of me, but I was not accepting of them - Utter Bellends living vicariously, hanging off their father's coat-tails... What I would say is that parents of kids on scholarships/bursaries have to keep a lookout for signs of bullying, as one of my pals in the year above at school was such a pupil and he got some really nasty comments about his parents lack of wealth. Some kids pick on any perceived weakness. If theres a film that sums it up it's the riot club. There's a guy in my year that had bebo you could put your other half and I was his and he put "sucks at everything" it was just nastyness and hatred and jealousy. It had an edge to it, my reunion was in 2018 I decided not to go and I don't plan on going to any reunion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That thing you do Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 6 hours ago, New Town Loafer said: Private schools are a very divisive issue. For many parents with access to money they are a legitimate means of providing a great education for their children, not just academically but in terms of physical education, musical opportunities etc. For others, wealthy or not, they represent much of what is wrong with historic and contemporary British society and serve to prolong the class divide that exists today. They can also foster an entitled, arrogant attitude in the attendees. Additionally, the concept that an education is something that can be bought does not sit well with many. Growing up, I was educated at local state comprehensives, private boarding schools and international schools, so got the full schooling experience. So, if money was no object would you send your children to a private school? If so, why? If no, why not? No. I went to one between ages of 14 and 18 and absolutely hated it for many reasons. In addition, I dont think the expense of private school is necessary given the way the working life is changing around creatives, immersive tech, AI. The child who succeeds in life in the future isnt the one who can memorise facts to get a letter grade on a certificate, its the one capable of creating, thinking outside the box and that comes outside lesson time. Private School is over rated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartsfc_fan Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) If I had the money I probably would. Having said that it's a lot to do with being at a decent school, good friend network (ie not a bunch of bams who are off the rails) and a solid mannered home life. I've known people to go to private schools and don't have particularly good jobs now. Seems a bit of a waste when the parents have spent £100k+ on fees over the 13 years the kid went to school. That could be a decent chunk for a house deposit for said kid. Edited January 12 by heartsfc_fan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
periodictabledancer Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Some observations about private schools : not inspected by Ofsted not necessarily bothered about failing pupils (boarders aren't booted out because of the fees - I know of one kid who changed from day pupil to boarder so his parents could keep him there) pupils who go on scholarships are arguably the best in the state school system (they have to pass 11-Plus, they get their on merit) so the endless cycle of private schools appearing to do/be better is reinforced by the creaming off of the more able kids the reverse applies to state schools there is a common misconception private schols simply are better - as though they don't have problem with drugs or rowdy/problem kids ( I know first hand this isn't true at all). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychedelicropcircle Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Only if you want them fingered 👆🏼 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 6 hours ago, Cruyff said: That said, what you do get from a private school is manners and how to behave properly. How to be sociable, confident and decent. Perhaps more independent as well. Also, if you're kids CV says they went to a private school regardless of their academic achievements, that goes a long way in itself because you're getting a more well rounded individual imo. It's just a shame that most of them don't put that into practice but prefer to come across as arrogant, entitled and overbearing. Saying "most", I know I'm exaggerating. One of my son's best friends from Uni turned out to have gone to Eton. He'd never tell you that and, in fact, seems a little embarrassed about the fact. But there are plenty of kids coming out of the lesser private schools who exhibit the behaviour I described. Many of those schools do give you an advantage in indicating how you should behave and what's useful to get on in life - certainly more than state schools do. I'm lucky that my boys got into a very good state school and have made their way in life comfortably and confidently. The way that unis are going, they've stood a statistically better chance of getting into Oxbridge precisely because they've been at a state school and those top unis want to appear less elitist than they've traditionally been. I don't think it's a problem if you're Eton or Harrow but kids at 'lesser' private schools are up against it to get into top unis against kids with similar predicted grades coming out of state schools. There are plenty of "Grange Hill" state schools which I wouldn't go near, though. Had we not got the school we did, we had the option of Grammar School for the eldest, which we'd have taken up. Absolutely no idea whether #2 would have done as well in the 11+ but it's academic. Private school would have been an absolute last resort. There is no way that (with few exceptions) parents get value for money from those schools. If your kid is bright, he'll get on equally well in a decent state school as he will in a private school; if he's not bright, the private schools will give him little chance and put him forward for the bare minimum of GCSE (or equivalent) exams, so that their results stats remain healthy. Someone mentioned that an advantage is with the sports and music opportunities. This is largely true but, from a state school, you've saved the pennies and can afford to put him into a local football/rugby club and get him trumpet lessons. 4 hours ago, Brian Whittaker's Tache said: Remove their charity status and shut the lot oh them. A 2 tier education system should not exist. I'll be happy with the VAT going on school fees for a start. The idea of these places being "charitable" is a feckin joke. Paying for 'exclusive' education and facilities for your precious little bundle is a luxury and a priviledge and should be taxed as one. The money raised from VAT will go nicely into the funding needed in the state school system for buildings and decent wages for teachers who, by and large, do an excellent job for peanuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 25 minutes ago, periodictabledancer said: Some observations about private schools : not inspected by Ofsted not necessarily bothered about failing pupils (boarders aren't booted out because of the fees - I know of one kid who changed from day pupil to boarder so his parents could keep him there) pupils who go on scholarships are arguably the best in the state school system (they have to pass 11-Plus, they get their on merit) so the endless cycle of private schools appearing to do/be better is reinforced by the creaming off of the more able kids the reverse applies to state schools there is a common misconception private schols simply are better - as though they don't have problem with drugs or rowdy/problem kids ( I know first hand this isn't true at all). That doesn't happen so much in the schools round me but they certainly go after the best teachers in the state system. The state trains them and provides their experience and then the private schools dangle 20% pay increases in front of the ones they hear good things about as well as promising them that they won't have to teach classes with more than 20 pupils in them. Where they do target kids is the ones that are good at sports. If it's a rugby school, they'll have their eye on the best players in the local clubs and offer them huge subsidy to get into the school. A lad my eldest played with at the local club was really quite decent at the age of 11 or so. The local private school offered him all sorts of scholarships but the dad still didn't have sufficient disposable income to pay even 20% fees plus books, uniform, sports equipment, etc. so he stayed at the state comp. The problems with drugs, booze and rowdiness are as bad at private schools as they are at any other school. Part of the issue being that the kids (or their parents) have more money, so laying out on a few bottles of voddie and some ching isn't a concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 6 minutes ago, I P Knightley said: That doesn't happen so much in the schools round me but they certainly go after the best teachers in the state system. The state trains them and provides their experience and then the private schools dangle 20% pay increases in front of the ones they hear good things about as well as promising them that they won't have to teach classes with more than 20 pupils in them. Where they do target kids is the ones that are good at sports. If it's a rugby school, they'll have their eye on the best players in the local clubs and offer them huge subsidy to get into the school. A lad my eldest played with at the local club was really quite decent at the age of 11 or so. The local private school offered him all sorts of scholarships but the dad still didn't have sufficient disposable income to pay even 20% fees plus books, uniform, sports equipment, etc. so he stayed at the state comp. The problems with drugs, booze and rowdiness are as bad at private schools as they are at any other school. Part of the issue being that the kids (or their parents) have more money, so laying out on a few bottles of voddie and some ching isn't a concern. To be fair , we pay for a state education we don’t use….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortyJambo Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 5 minutes ago, I P Knightley said: Many of those schools do give you an advantage in indicating how you should behave and what's useful to get on in life - certainly more than state schools do. I never went to a private school, but I saw this difference when I was 15 years old. I applied and got through tests that meant I was invited for a weekend of tests and interviews at RAF Biggin Hill for a scholarship where, if I passed, I'd be off to officer training when I finished school. The other kids I met were fine mostly, but I quickly found out I was the only one of dozens there that weekend that wasn't at a private school. I then had the "big" interview during the weekend, and totally froze, was dreadful and knew I'd blown any chance as was just too naive at that age and pretty much blurted out answers that still make me cringe today when I think about them . I'd never had an interview before and just had no idea what to expect...but all the private school kids said it was a breeze as they'd all had interview prep classes before they went. Something I'd never considered, or been offered, at my state school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 7 hours ago, New Town Loafer said: Private schools are a very divisive issue. For many parents with access to money they are a legitimate means of providing a great education for their children, not just academically but in terms of physical education, musical opportunities etc. For others, wealthy or not, they represent much of what is wrong with historic and contemporary British society and serve to prolong the class divide that exists today. They can also foster an entitled, arrogant attitude in the attendees. Additionally, the concept that an education is something that can be bought does not sit well with many. Growing up, I was educated at local state comprehensives, private boarding schools and international schools, so got the full schooling experience. So, if money was no object would you send your children to a private school? If so, why? If no, why not? I'm sure that the old school tie does open doors but unless that's the background you are born to and the circles you will always move in there is no need. Joe Punter will learn more about life and how to deal with people from growing up, learning from dealing with the variety of lifestyles and perspectives of their peers. That includes dealing with the variety of arseholes we can all be. My oldest mate who grew up a few doors from me and went through the same schooling I did has whizzed through life and is the top man in his industry in Scotland and in that particular industry that means the world. A lot of that comes from knowing how to play to different audiences. I also grew up with a (former) mate who came from a relatively privileged background but going through secondary with me he was exposed to the reality of having to rub along with the same type of arseholes as the rest of us and learned how he would need to deal with it in the real world. That helped him big time when he established a really good business and has made an awful lot of bucks. Our kids were born 6 months apart and he made a big deal of giving his laddie the best start in life and not having him putting up with the sort of shite he did at school. I can remember him telling me what difference that would make at one of their infant birthday parties. Fast forward 20 odd years and despite the expensive education and opportunities that afforded his laddie, he left school with modest qualifications, very limited social skills and now drives his auld man for a living . The supposed disadvantages my wee yin had to contend with from going to an even worse school I did saw her straight A everything right through her Masters and preparing for her doctorate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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