Zander Clark.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, DS98 said:

Times up for Zander I’m afraid. He’s had a year to convince us he’s good enough to be our number 1 and he’s not taken his chance. 
 

You wouldn’t play Boyce up front and have Shankland on the bench, you wouldn’t play Sibbick centre half with a fit Frankie Kent available and we should not be persisting with Clark when we have Craig Gordon. It’s that simple. 

Spot on, for the manager to say Clark  has done nothing wrong to drop out the team for Gordon shows he has no clue what he is doing. 

[Fraggle]

57 minutes ago, saxondale said:

 

I agree, Gordon is clearly considerably better than Clark. He's a more than capable backup though and clearly not as bad as most like to make out; otherwise, he would be nowhere near the Scotland squad.

To be honest, I think that says more about the lack of good quality Scottish goalkeepers outside of the main two (Gordon and Gunn). 

 

Clark was at fault for that winning goal today. As others have said, in that situation, the goalie has to come out and clean shop, of all and sundry within 10ft of the ball. It's exactly the same as the Marshal incident when Humphries scored in the Derby.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Fraggle

[saxondale]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Who? Name them? Not sportscene, not BBC online. You’re making things up. 

 

The fact Sportscene, BBC and the Evening News (to name a few) did not even hint at Clark being at fault for the second goal probably suggests he wasn't?

[basscom]

2 hours ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

@Scott Leitch @basscomstill laughing?

You’ve lost me mate?

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, saxondale said:

 

Naw, I'll leave that to Clarke and his staff who I'm sure are far more knowledgeable about that than you or I.

 

Be honest, were you relatively pleased when you heard we signed Clark in the summer?

Not at all, always thought he was a bombscare, the St Johnstone fans were mocking him mercilessly two weeks ago. He started ok but from about the Kilmarnock game away he has made bad mistake after mistake. 
As for Scotland you haven’t a clue.

Gunn, Kelly, Gordon/Clark and McLaughlin/McCrorue at Rangers. Thats all the Scottish GKs playing top level football, the two Rangers players are subs, as will ZC soon enough. 

[Shaggy2]

2 minutes ago, saxondale said:

 

The fact Sportscene, BBC and the Evening News (to name a few) did not even hint at Clark being at fault for the second goal probably suggests he wasn't?

Too busy having a laugh at Duk’s attempted dink. 
Clark could have got to the ball first, there’s absolutely no doubt in my mind. Kicked it up beside us if he wanted. Rowles and Halkett both could have pulled Duk back and took a yellow. Preferably Halkett seeing as Rowles was already on one bit even if he’d been ordered off we’d have got a point. 

[saxondale]

1 minute ago, Fraggle said:

To be honest, I think that says more about the lack of good quality Scottish goalkeepers outside of the main two (Gordon and Gunn). 

 

Clark was at fault for that winning goal today. As others have said, in that situation, the goalie has to come out and clean shop, of all and sundry with 10ft of the ball. It's exactly the same as the Marshal incident when Humphries scored in the Derby.

 

It's true that we don't have a big pool of top quality goalkeepers at the moment, but like I've said, if Zander was as bad as everyone makes out he would not be making the Scotland squad. Its as simple as that. Christ, if he was that bad we could even replace him of wanted to with McGovern who is definitely a decent keeper.

 

As I've pointed out to another poster, if he was so clearly at fault for the second goal, why wouldn't most media outlets and supposed football experts highlight this? It would at the very least be a talking point, but so far I've not seen or read the main ones bring this up.

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, saxondale said:

 

The fact Sportscene, BBC and the Evening News (to name a few) did not even hint at Clark being at fault for the second goal probably suggests he wasn't?

You’re backtracking quicker than Clark, you said the pundits/journalists/commentators thought he wasn’t at fault. Now you’re assuming that they didn’t.
If you’re going by the mugs that work for the press, or the clueless weegies on Sportscene to hear proper analysis then you’re struggling worse than our team. 
But you obviously know better than everyone else on this thread 🤪.

[saxondale]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Not at all, always thought he was a bombscare, the St Johnstone fans were mocking him mercilessly two weeks ago. He started ok but from about the Kilmarnock game away he has made bad mistake after mistake. 
As for Scotland you haven’t a clue.

Gunn, Kelly, Gordon/Clark and McLaughlin/McCrorue at Rangers. Thats all the Scottish GKs playing top level football, the two Rangers players are subs, as will ZC soon enough. 

 

Cool, well you were certainly in the minority then because I recall it being pretty unanimous that Clark was a good solid signing (especially for backup keeper).

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, saxondale said:

 

It's true that we don't have a big pool of top quality goalkeepers at the moment, but like I've said, if Zander was as bad as everyone makes out he would not be making the Scotland squad. Its as simple as that. Christ, if he was that bad we could even replace him of wanted to with McGovern who is definitely a decent keeper.

 

As I've pointed out to another poster, if he was so clearly at fault for the second goal, why wouldn't most media outlets and supposed football experts highlight this? It would at the very least be a talking point, but so far I've not seen or read the main ones bring this up.

How much clearer can folk make it for you, THERES NOBODY ELSE FFS 😆.

[basscom]

I’ve watched it again and I now think Clark could have got to the ball before Duk. Those pictures help.

 

Clark probably thought that having two defenders on him was enough and one of them would stop him.

 

Bottom line is Naismith shouldn’t have played Clark as he’s nowhere near good enough. Gordon is miles ahead of Clark. 
 

I was at Dens when Clark took that short free kick on the touch line and got lobbed, costing us the game. Embarrassing.

 

Also Naismith throwing Halkett in was a mistake. He looked so unfit. 
 

It’s all just turning into a big pile of shite…

[Shaggy2]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

You’re backtracking quicker than Clark, you said the pundits/journalists/commentators thought he wasn’t at fault. Now you’re assuming that they didn’t.
If you’re going by the mugs that work for the press, or the clueless weegies on Sportscene to hear proper analysis then you’re struggling worse than our team. 
But you obviously know better than everyone else on this thread 🤪.

Bottom line, if he did on Wednesday what he did today and today what he did on Wednesday there’s a good chance we’re two points better off right now. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, saxondale said:

 

Cool, well you were certainly in the minority then because I recall it being pretty unanimous that Clark was a good solid signing (especially for backup keeper).

Nothing wrong with being in the minority when you’re right. I was in the minority about Levein and Neilson. I’m wrong more often than not but can admit it. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, basscom said:

I’ve watched it again and I now think Clark could have got to the ball before Duk. Those pictures help.

 

Clark probably thought that having two defenders on him was enough and one of them would stop him.

 

Bottom line is Naismith shouldn’t have played Clark as he’s nowhere near good enough. Gordon is miles ahead of Clark. 
 

I was at Dens when Clark took that short free kick on the touch line and got lobbed, costing us the game. Embarrassing.

 

Also Naismith throwing Halkett in was a mistake. He looked so unfit. 
 

It’s all just turning into a big pile of shite…

He cant assume that two defenders slower than an attacker will deal with it, hes on the edge of the box for a reason, not to back off and pass the buck to others. But agree that Halkett shouldn’t have come on, he changed the defence around against Hibs and hasn’t learnt the lesson. 

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said:

Bottom line, if he did on Wednesday what he did today and today what he did on Wednesday there’s a good chance we’re two points better off right now. 

I said that up there. His mistakes cost us 3rd, alongside others obviously, last season and has already cost us quite a few this season too. I think most folk don’t really notice GKs poor play unless it’s obvious, easier to see a bad pass etc. 

[basscom]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

He cant assume that two defenders slower than an attacker will deal with it, hes on the edge of the box for a reason, not to back off and pass the buck to others. But agree that Halkett shouldn’t have come on, he changed the defence around against Hibs and hasn’t learnt the lesson. 

Who knows what he was thinking to be honest.
 

I’ve just remembered the free kick at hampden where Clark made an ^^^^ out of that as well.
 

Agreed about Hibs game. Naismith mistake again when he shifted the whole defence and we threw away a match we were cruising in. 

[saxondale]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

You’re backtracking quicker than Clark, you said the pundits/journalists/commentators thought he wasn’t at fault. Now you’re assuming that they didn’t.
If you’re going by the mugs that work for the press, or the clueless weegies on Sportscene to hear proper analysis then you’re struggling worse than our team. 
But you obviously know better than everyone else on this thread 🤪.

 

I'm not backtracking at all. If pundits/journalist/commentators don't even hint that Zander was at fault for the goal, then by definition they don't think he was to blame.

 

If you are just going to dismiss a whole host of people who are more qualified than you and i, more impartial, and who's interests are to come up with talking points like "x player has made a mistake", then I've not got much hope in winning this argument, have I?

 

Out of curiousity, who would you not dismiss if they backed up the opinion I have?

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, saxondale said:

 

I'm not backtracking at all. If pundits/journalist/commentators don't even hint that Zander was at fault for the goal, then by definition they don't think he was to blame.

 

If you are just going to dismiss a whole host of people who are more qualified than you and i, more impartial, and who's interests are to come up with talking points like "x player has made a mistake", then I've not got much hope in winning this argument, have I?

 

Out of curiousity, who would you not dismiss if they backed up the opinion I have?

I would disagree with anyone who says he couldn’t have moved two steps to his left to collect that ball. How would you describe a journalist as being more qualified than you or me? What football knowledge does any journalist have that we don’t? Do you think theres a special place they learn more than us? Have they got badges? 
An ex football player has opinions, they don’t agree with each other and more often than not show a lack of knowledge about goalkeeping especially. 
As for them not saying that there are a number of reasons they don’t mention things, time or space, favouritism etc. 

How about we go with his teammates like Halkett or Denholm who can be seen blaming him for the goal?

[Pasquale for King]

11 minutes ago, basscom said:

Who knows what he was thinking to be honest.
 

I’ve just remembered the free kick at hampden where Clark made an ^^^^ out of that as well.
 

Agreed about Hibs game. Naismith mistake again when he shifted the whole defence and we threw away a match we were cruising in. 

Or the penalty, or the St Mirren goal etc etc. Awful GK who found his level at his former club. 

[saxondale]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I would disagree with anyone who says he couldn’t have moved two steps to his left to collect that ball. How would you describe a journalist as being more qualified than you or me? What football knowledge does any journalist have that we don’t? Do you think theres a special place they learn more than us? Have they got badges? 
An ex football player has opinions, they don’t agree with each other and more often than not show a lack of knowledge about goalkeeping especially. 
As for them not saying that there are a number of reasons they don’t mention things, time or space, favouritism etc. 

How about we go with his teammates like Halkett or Denholm who can be seen blaming him for the goal?

 

Perhaps qualified was the wrong the word to use, what I meant was that they are very much reporting things as and how they unfold without applying any prejudices or emotions a supporter might have. Likewise pundits and commentators.

 

Yep, I'm sure on this occasion the issue was that everyone involved in Sportscene, all the journalists and reporters at the BBC and the Evening News were either running out of time, didn't fancy mentioning it or simply are not knowledgeable enough on goalkeepers (unlike your good self).

 

Your last point really is reaching - every player blames one another all the time in every single game.

 

 

[Legend Claws]

8 hours ago, Tokyo Drifter said:

Couple of decent saves v Rangers, but yeah he's not the greatest. 

He was at least 50% culpable for losing us that game.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, saxondale said:

 

Perhaps qualified was the wrong the word to use, what I meant was that they are very much reporting things as and how they unfold without applying any prejudices or emotions a supporter might have. Likewise pundits and commentators.

 

Yep, I'm sure on this occasion the issue was that everyone involved in Sportscene, all the journalists and reporters at the BBC and the Evening News were either running out of time, didn't fancy mentioning it or simply are not knowledgeable enough on goalkeepers (unlike your good self).

 

Your last point really is reaching - every player blames one another all the time in every single game.

 

 

I’m not the only person on this thread thats told you were wrong, or that Clark was clearly at fault. 
You only have assumptions that these experts don’t think he was at fault, tbh I don’t think they have a clue about goalkeeping, but I will go with everyone else on here who have analysed the goal for you to dismiss, and his own teammates. 
 

[Pasquale for King]

I will also point out that he’s another goalkeeper who hasn’t improved under the tutelage of our GK coach, would it be too much to help him kick the ball more accurately or learn how players run ups should show where they place a penalty?

[1971fozzy]

Gordon should be picked end of. 
clark is an able deputy but has brain farts every single game. Just like he also has superb saves to be fair. But you play Gordon full stop.

[Fraggle]

1 hour ago, saxondale said:

 

It's true that we don't have a big pool of top quality goalkeepers at the moment, but like I've said, if Zander was as bad as everyone makes out he would not be making the Scotland squad. Its as simple as that. Christ, if he was that bad we could even replace him of wanted to with McGovern who is definitely a decent keeper.

 

As I've pointed out to another poster, if he was so clearly at fault for the second goal, why wouldn't most media outlets and supposed football experts highlight this? It would at the very least be a talking point, but so far I've not seen or read the main ones bring this up.

I think the thing with the current Scottish goalie situation is the drop off in quality from the top two picks down to 3rd and 4th. Clark and Kelly are decent SPFL goalies, but nowhere near Gordon or Gunn. Personally, I was very happy with Clark signing, though it did cross my mind that he was a freebie and still hadn't been picked up by lower league English clubs (though that could have been down to his choice). 

 

In regards to the whole perceived blame for the 2nd goal, appreciate that the press and pundits haven't picked up on it, but there are plenty of times where the media pack have not deemed errors/mistakes coverage worthy (doesnt mean its not blame apportioned). Either way, I think Clarks biggest error at the 2nd goal was his split second, indecisiveness. From watching it at the time, it looked like he got caught in brain fog no man's land. 

[gorgierulesapply88]

4 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Who else would take his place in the Scotland squad?

Jack Hamilton made the squads previously 👀🤣 and he's jobbies.

[cosanostra]

Time for Craig to come back. 

[Scott Leitch]

Zander played well today. Made a cracking save. For me he wasn't to blame for the goal.

 

 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

In the main he's done well for us while Craig been out injured but he's not in the same class as Gordon pre injury , just hoping that Gordon will come back as good as before but that's a big ask

[Harry Potter]

13 hours ago, jamboozy said:

There’s a few Hearts players need to have a check if they want to be here or not.

my wife would dock their wages, 😏.

[Heartsmad1874]

2 hours ago, Scott Leitch said:

Zander played well today. Made a cracking save. For me he wasn't to blame for the goal.

 

 

You can’t be serious, he is 100% at fault

[Shaggy2]

7 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

I’m not the only person on this thread thats told you were wrong, or that Clark was clearly at fault. 
You only have assumptions that these experts don’t think he was at fault, tbh I don’t think they have a clue about goalkeeping, but I will go with everyone else on here who have analysed the goal for you to dismiss, and his own teammates. 
 

You can probably add Kent to Halkett and Denholm. There’s a video on Twitter from a sheepie behind the goal. Kent grabs the post and shakes it out of frustration then turns to Clark with his hands out in a kind of “WTF was that?” gesture and has a word with his goalie. Been trying to find the tweet but no joy this morning. 

[jamboozy]

1 hour ago, Harry Potter said:

my wife would dock their wages, 😏.

Quite right. On a more serious side, I don’t know all the intricacies of the wage structure, but, they need to look at the win bonus side of it .

[kingantti1874]

3 hours ago, Scott Leitch said:

Zander played well today. Made a cracking save. For me he wasn't to blame for the goal.

 

 

🤣

 

he was ffs.  and he was at fault against rangers as well, and at fault against them in the semi.

 

timing getting off the line and making himself big seems to be a real issue for Zander.

 

i like him btw, but we have a better keep on the bench 

[Sherbet]

44 minutes ago, jamboozy said:

Quite right. On a more serious side, I don’t know all the intricacies of the wage structure, but, they need to look at the win bonus side of it .

We don't win enough for that to be a problem!!

[Harry Potter]

54 minutes ago, jamboozy said:

Quite right. On a more serious side, I don’t know all the intricacies of the wage structure, but, they need to look at the win bonus side of it .

Do they even need a win bonus' , there high wages probably dont have a need for them these days.

[jamboozy]

18 minutes ago, Sherbet said:

We don't win enough for that to be a problem!!

That is true.

4 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Do they even need a win bonus' , there high wages probably dont have a need for them these days.

Maybe it would be an incentive, but as Sherbet says above, it would be a mute point.😟

[Dennis Reynolds]

He's a good second choice keeper and the sooner he's back to that the better.

[Harry Potter]

Just now, Dennis Reynolds said:

He's a good second choice keeper and the sooner he's back to that the better.

so whats up with him, losing to that shower yesterday is unacceptable, no wonder folk are annoyed.

Even the happy clappers cant forgive this one.

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Shaggy2 said:

You can probably add Kent to Halkett and Denholm. There’s a video on Twitter from a sheepie behind the goal. Kent grabs the post and shakes it out of frustration then turns to Clark with his hands out in a kind of “WTF was that?” gesture and has a word with his goalie. Been trying to find the tweet but no joy this morning. 

No probs, I’ve no doubt that happened, cant be long before he is dropped surely. 

[Pasquale for King]

6 hours ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

Jack Hamilton made the squads previously 👀🤣 and he's jobbies.

Exactly, Liam Kelly is no great shakes either, a Motherwell fan told me Clark was better 😱🤦🏽. 

[Aaron78]

9 hours ago, saxondale said:

 

Perhaps qualified was the wrong the word to use, what I meant was that they are very much reporting things as and how they unfold without applying any prejudices or emotions a supporter might have. Likewise pundits and commentators.

 

Yep, I'm sure on this occasion the issue was that everyone involved in Sportscene, all the journalists and reporters at the BBC and the Evening News were either running out of time, didn't fancy mentioning it or simply are not knowledgeable enough on goalkeepers (unlike your good self).

 

Your last point really is reaching - every player blames one another all the time in every single game.

 

 

Clark was absolutely to blame for the last goal.  From where I was standing, I was pretty much level with him and it was his ball every day of the week to claim but he dithered,  backtracked and made it easy for Aberdeen. 

 

Made a great save in the second half, but as a goalie you need to be judged on the mistakes you make and at the moment he is making too many.

[The Mercer Takeover]

Only on JKB, would folk suggest not playing your best goalkeeper, and one of the best we have ever had, as it may not be a team priority. The happy clapper mentality only ensures mediocrity.

 

Everything that can be improved, should be improved, at the earliest opportunity. We are, believe it or not, trying to win things here.

[Shaggy2]

13 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Exactly, Liam Kelly is no great shakes either, a Motherwell fan told me Clark was better 😱🤦🏽. 

I’m in a Scotland chat and there was a very interesting ding dong prior to Georgia with Hearts fans hoping Kelly played and Well fans hoping Clark played. 😂

[alicante jambo]

10 hours ago, amadjambo said:

Also baffles me why Cochrane and Sibbick are so utter shite in the air. Both big athletic lads and cant jump for a header to save themselves.

They 2 are no just shite in the air. 

[Pasquale for King]

12 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said:

I’m in a Scotland chat and there was a very interesting ding dong prior to Georgia with Hearts fans hoping Kelly played and Well fans hoping Clark played. 😂

Hahahahaha what a predicament to be in. Gordon back to his old self cures a few problems. 

[Pasquale for King]

11 minutes ago, alicante jambo said:

They 2 are no just shite in the air. 

A fair response to a good question. 

[alicante jambo]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

A fair response to a good question. 

Its frustrating as feck watching us the now. The simple basics are missing. Pass and go, passing 5 yards, not winning 50/50s soft as shite, not looking where the opposition player is, not one person wanting the ball from a throw in unless it goes backwards which usually happens. And from our manager shite substitutions.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, alicante jambo said:

Its frustrating as feck watching us the now. The simple basics are missing. Pass and go, passing 5 yards, not winning 50/50s soft as shite, not looking where the opposition player is, not one person wanting the ball from a throw in unless it goes backwards which usually happens. And from our manager shite substitutions.

Agreed, apart from Shankland there is not much room for optimism at the moment, even he is feeding off scraps. 

[alicante jambo]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Agreed, apart from Shankland there is not much room for optimism at the moment, even he is feeding off scraps. 

I feel sorry for him and if he wants to leave you cant blame him.  He lost his rag a few times yesterday and quite right.