Massive clear out required immediately.

[soonbe110]

44 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Yip.

Hickey, Halkett, Shankland,  Cochrane , Souttar.

Arguably Mckay, Simms,  even Sibbick improved

Most of the above got caps, international  recognition, moves from us or had their best full seasons to date.

 

Some folk dinna half talk mince.

👍 unfortunately some can’t see what’s right in front of them. We need a manager who has a track record of doing similar and that reduces the field even more.  In the end it all points to one person. 

[Boris5115]

1 hour ago, Carter said:

I'm inclined to agree. When you review our yoy financial performance you're left wondering what things might look like without the JA/FoH funding. Certainly isn't giving us any competitive advantage. That's beyond dispute. You actually wonder if it's a necessity in order to even perform as we are, which if the case is frankly scandalous.

 

There was some talk of FoH potentially funding a new training facility going forward as a concept. Mentioned by a FoH Director when standing for re-election but all has gone quiet since. The costs involved would be vast and would doubtless require considerable generosity from benefactors once more. 

 

When James Anderson oersonally introduces his own money into the club each year at a level of almost 70% of the annual turnover of a club like St Mirren, who've performed at a similar level to us over the past 18 months you really have to question the direction of the club and the management thereof. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if we have received the last of Mr Andersons generosity. Even he must be scratching his head at the regression on the park. 

[Fraggle]

7 minutes ago, Boris5115 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if we have received the last of Mr Andersons generosity. Even he must be scratching his head at the regression on the park. 

It was coming to an end anyway was it not? His money was never for the first team anyway, it was going to the women's team, run the community stuff, etc.

[Nerja Jambo]

1 hour ago, Carter said:

I'm inclined to agree. When you review our yoy financial performance you're left wondering what things might look like without the JA/FoH funding. Certainly isn't giving us any competitive advantage. That's beyond dispute. You actually wonder if it's a necessity in order to even perform as we are, which if the case is frankly scandalous.

 

There was some talk of FoH potentially funding a new training facility going forward as a concept. Mentioned by a FoH Director when standing for re-election but all has gone quiet since. The costs involved would be vast and would doubtless require considerable generosity from benefactors once more. 

 

When James Anderson oersonally introduces his own money into the club each year at a level of almost 70% of the annual turnover of a club like St Mirren, who've performed at a similar level to us over the past 18 months you really have to question the direction of the club and the management thereof. 

 

The problem I now have is that I have lost complete faith in the Board ever remotely getting a coaching decision right. It's either a case of taking to long to dismiss one, to long to appoint one and when they have it's the cheap option. Go back to the days of Romanov he sacked whoever it was ( can't remember ) in the morning and appointed Jeffries in the afternoon. If they even had a board meeting last night you really wonder if anyone questioned the appointment of SN. Surely even this lot must be planning for the high possibility that SN will need to be sacked before long. The divide between the support and the board has never been greater in the past 10 years and that is down 100% to the board. By refusing to make some sort of statement addressing the disquiet they are digging an even bigger hole for themselves. This Board hide behind FOH, the Companies Act and the famous " fan owned but not fan run " mantra. But the difference is that whilst other company shareholders take money out through dividends, we pay £1.5 million in with no financial return wanted. Under these circumstances, whilst we are still liable under the CA , a but of courtesy by them would not go amiss. 

[Boris5115]

11 minutes ago, Fraggle said:

It was coming to an end anyway was it not? His money was never for the first team anyway, it was going to the women's team, run the community stuff, etc.

I don't believe for a minute that none of his donations have been channelled into the first team playing squad. Yes I agree a lot went to other parts of the football club. It will interesting to see how things go without his generosity. Could we be any worse than we already are. Personally I'd rather he was around for a bit longer but I'm hearing that maybe not the case. 

 

[Nerja Jambo]

32 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

You have to wonder what Anderson thinks of it all? Not sure I could sit back and watch what’s happening with my money. 

Andersons money has not gone towards the football department. The stand, the hotel, the MND sponsorship on the jersey etc that's it. Nothing football related.

[droid]

20 minutes ago, Fraggle said:

It was coming to an end anyway was it not? His money was never for the first team anyway, it was going to the women's team, run the community stuff, etc.

Some would have you believe it was him that interviewed Naismith for the managers position.

[Jamhammer]

22 hours ago, damo said:

A good example was 97/98...we had a brilliant team yet 5 defeats and 3 draws in our eight OF fixtures that season. To think we were only 7 points off top spot that season. 1 win against Celtic and Rangers would have been enough to win the league.  Clearly demonstrates how difficult it is to win against them.

 

Giving them a game like we did then would be nice though

[soonbe110]

Just now, Nerja Jambo said:

Andersons money has not gone towards the football department. The stand, the hotel, the MND sponsorship on the jersey etc that's it. Nothing football related.

Maybe so, but indirectly some of it  has gone towards the football dept.  If we didn’t have his money funding a number of non-football stuff the money available for the football dept would be less than it is. The stand is a perfect example. The increased capacity, prices, hospitality, food and beverage income all benefits the football dept. I don’t think any of us know what all the benefactors money has been used to fund but I’d be amazed if none of it has found its way to the football dept. 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Carter said:

I'm inclined to agree. When you review our yoy financial performance you're left wondering what things might look like without the JA/FoH funding. Certainly isn't giving us any competitive advantage. That's beyond dispute. You actually wonder if it's a necessity in order to even perform as we are, which if the case is frankly scandalous.

 

There was some talk of FoH potentially funding a new training facility going forward as a concept. Mentioned by a FoH Director when standing for re-election but all has gone quiet since. The costs involved would be vast and would doubtless require considerable generosity from benefactors once more. 

 

When James Anderson oersonally introduces his own money into the club each year at a level of almost 70% of the annual turnover of a club like St Mirren, who've performed at a similar level to us over the past 18 months you really have to question the direction of the club and the management thereof. 

 

 

St mirren haven't tho.

 

We finished 3rd and 4th in the last two seasons

 

St mirren never.

Can't remember them in European group stages or in cup finals. 

 

Apparently we've been unfit for years, at St mirrens level and under performed?

3rd and 4th last two seasons 

It's not true 

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

St mirren haven't tho.

 

We finished 3rd and 4th in the last two seasons

 

St mirren never.

Can't remember them in European group stages or in cup finals. 

 

Apparently we've been unfit for years, at St mirrens level and under performed?

3rd and 4th last two seasons 

It's not true 

 

 

Away with your facts. Carter's having a rant and the truth can't be allowed to get in the way

[Bazzas right boot]

32 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

Giving them a game like we did then would be nice though

 

 

Iirc we had 5-2 and 4-1 defeats v them that season!

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

👍 unfortunately some can’t see what’s right in front of them. We need a manager who has a track record of doing similar and that reduces the field even more.  In the end it all points to one person. 

 

He who shall not be named!

[Carter]

8 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

St mirren haven't tho.

 

We finished 3rd and 4th in the last two seasons

 

St mirren never.

Can't remember them in European group stages or in cup finals. 

 

Apparently we've been unfit for years, at St mirrens level and under performed?

3rd and 4th last two seasons 

It's not true 

 

 

That's not quite what I said. I stated that since the first game of last season until the present, a period spanning 47 games for us and 46 games for St Mirren, we've both accumulated the same number of points. 

 

You might consider that to be acceptable. I consider it completely unacceptable given the disparity in resources. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone. 

[Carter]

9 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Away with your facts. Carter's having a rant and the truth can't be allowed to get in the way

See my response to BRB. Facts can indeed be stubborn things. 

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, Carter said:

That's not quite what I said. I stated that since the first game of last season until the present, a period spanning 47 games for us and 46 games for St Mirren, we've both accumulated the same number of points. 

 

You might consider that to be acceptable. I consider it completely unacceptable given the disparity in resources. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone. 

👍good post

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

2 minutes ago, Carter said:

That's not quite what I said. I stated that since the first game of last season until the present, a period spanning 47 games for us and 46 games for St Mirren, we've both accumulated the same number of points. 

 

You might consider that to be acceptable. I consider it completely unacceptable given the disparity in resources. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone. 

A damming statistic infant an absolute disgrace

[Malinga the Swinga]

4 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

A damming statistic infant an absolute disgrace

Is it really an absolute disgrace or is it St Mirren doing okay and we're having rough time. 

It's sport, their are no guarantees, so get off your tiresome high horse and back the team. I would have said back the manager and club but you seem incapable of that for some reason, instead acting like a petulant crybaby who doesn't get his own way.

[1971fozzy]

14 hours ago, hisnameis said:

I don't think we have unfit players I think we have a number who are recovering from serious injuries and need to get up to speed. What I do think is lacking, in some cases,  is the physicality and battling mentality for the scottish game. Cochrane was thrown in on Sunday as it was a case of needs must but clearly wasn't ready for a game of that magnitude against the league's best team. Against lesser opponents we would have had more of the ball with less running and tracking. The guy is a worker but he is just back after several weeks out. 

hold on to your hat. Naismith talking about Kingsley maybe playing on Saturday. Imagine that. A dead rubber at Ibrox and talking about risking arguably our best defender. Wouldn’t surprise me in the least

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

3 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Is it really an absolute disgrace or is it St Mirren doing okay and we're having rough time. 

It's sport, their are no guarantees, so get off your tiresome high horse and back the team. I would have said back the manager and club but you seem incapable of that for some reason, instead acting like a petulant crybaby who doesn't get his own way.

St Mirren probably on quarter of our budget ffs , some on here like yourself happy to accept mediocrity and downright incompetence from the board but you crack on with that 

[Jsmith21]

We need to sign better players so I’d be removing savage if he sinks another manager with the amount of windows we’ve had to sort the team out 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 minute ago, Jsmith21 said:

We need to sign better players so I’d be removing savage if he sinks another manager with the amount of windows we’ve had to sort the team out 

Savage and McKinlay got to go and be replaced with people who'll appoint a proper management team

[Carter]

22 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Is it really an absolute disgrace or is it St Mirren doing okay and we're having rough time. 

It's sport, their are no guarantees, so get off your tiresome high horse and back the team. I would have said back the manager and club but you seem incapable of that for some reason, instead acting like a petulant crybaby who doesn't get his own way.

This sums up why we achieve so little and why our Board feel they can get away with it. 

 

Thoroughly depressing attitude to observe. 

[Lone Striker]

The only way we could organise a massive clearout of players during their contracted period  is to inform other clubs that we're willing to listen to knock-down offers.   That wouldn't be a good look, and some of these players might well play against us afterwards with renewed determination to prove Hearts wrong.

 

I'm not convinced that the technical  standard of player we've recruited over the last 2 years is the main problem.   More likely to be a combo of  things some of them are lacking, like -

 

 - poor mental strength, professional pride in  performing at the top of your ability,  self-motivation 

- unable to adapt to  regular chopping  & changing of  team selections and roles

 

Its seems more than coincidence that last season's drop in performance levels and results under Robbie bears a passing resemblance to what we're seeing so far this season (apart from Aberdeen and Hibs games).  We're worryingly inconsistent.  Too many players  not busting a gut for the team.

 

None of us knows how the players are being coached, or what attributes they show in training matches - all we can comment on is what we see in matches.

 

As others have said above though,  there's a clear disconnect between  how  Naisy claims he wants the team to perform (high tempo, front foot etc) and what seems to be  an inability of several players to last 90 minutes.

 

The stat mentioned above about Macaulay Tait having been on the bench 25 times without ever getting on the pitch is astonishing, if true.  Very poor man-management.

 

I agree with the view  expressed by many that we're spending a huge amount of money to (at best) stand still, and now possibly going backwards, thanks to poor football management.

 

[leginten]

26 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

hold on to your hat. Naismith talking about Kingsley maybe playing on Saturday. Imagine that. A dead rubber at Ibrox and talking about risking arguably our best defender. Wouldn’t surprise me in the least

It doesn’t begin to match the definition of a dead rubber. We should be going out all guns blazing. (The issue of whether or not Kingsley should start is a separate one.) Yes, we may well get beaten, but let’s not be defeatist before we’re even there. Neilson had us beaten before we even reached the Maybury with his “free hit” shite.

[HopeDiouf]

2 minutes ago, leginten said:

It doesn’t begin to match the definition of a dead rubber. We should be going out all guns blazing. (The issue of whether or not Kingsley should start is a separate one.) Yes, we may well get beaten, but let’s not be defeatist before we’re even there. Neilson had us beaten before we even reached the Maybury with his “free hit” shite.

could be wrong, but isn't Neilson the last Hearts manager to win at Ibrox?

[Bad Religion]

3 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

could be wrong, but isn't Neilson the last Hearts manager to win at Ibrox?

Has anyone else had the chance since him? 😂

[HopeDiouf]

1 minute ago, Bad Religion said:

Has anyone else had the chance since him? 😂

Naismith definately.  Think Cathro also.  Not sure on others.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

6 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

could be wrong, but isn't Neilson the last Hearts manager to win at Ibrox?

Osman sow last minute winner?

[HopeDiouf]

Just now, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Osman sow last minute winner?

thats the one

[leginten]

9 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

could be wrong, but isn't Neilson the last Hearts manager to win at Ibrox?

He is indeed. A decade ago, before the rot set in. His record in Glasgow once we were back in the top league is not a thing of beauty. Nor was his attitude.

 

Starting point for this Saturday should be that we managed a draw last time we were there despite more or less throwing the ball in our own net for them. It’s not impossible.

[Carter]

2 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

You have to wonder what Anderson thinks of it all? Not sure I could sit back and watch what’s happening with my money. 

You've got to imagine he's pretty dismayed. Hard to imagine he could be anything other than that in all honesty.

[Lone Striker]

1 hour ago, Carter said:

That's not quite what I said. I stated that since the first game of last season until the present, a period spanning 47 games for us and 46 games for St Mirren, we've both accumulated the same number of points. 

 

You might consider that to be acceptable. I consider it completely unacceptable given the disparity in resources. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone. 

Yes it is unacceptable - but the equal points you mention is entirely due to St.Mirren flying high this season while we're sh1t this season.   We can't control what St.Mirren do apart from when we play them (and we're to blame for the way we lost to them).

 

fwiw, this is the 2nd club  Stephen Robinson has improved while having to sell  some good players.  I don't care if "his football is eye-bleeding" (whatever thats meant to mean) - its results that count, and he's the sort of experienced manager Hearts would probably   benefit from.

 

[Cynic]

There ain't going to be a clearout. What we need above anything is a competent experienced manager to steady the ship. McInnes, Robinson, or much as I dislike the guy, McKay. The players seem to lack motivation and direction and need a kick up the arse as well as a clear tactical plan. I feel we only have a handful of players who are at the level Hearts should aspire to. Clark (adequate), Kingsley, Kent, Shankland,if he gets his motivation back, Boyce, although his legs are going, Halkett, again a question mark over fitness, Varga hopefully and Oda. Everybody will have their own opinions about that list ( Devlin maybe) but the truth is we don't have a single player Celtic or even Rangers would want. 

[Pasquale for King]

6 hours ago, Gershwin said:

Ginnelly and Halkett improved under Neilson imo. Gino arguably has Neilson to thank for adapting the team to fit him in and give him the platform to grab that lucrative move to Swansea.

Good point about Ginnelly, much underrated on here and has been missed a lot by the team and Shankland in particular. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Cynic said:

There ain't going to be a clearout. What we need above anything is a competent experienced manager to steady the ship. McInnes, Robinson, or much as I dislike the guy, McKay. The players seem to lack motivation and direction and need a kick up the arse as well as a clear tactical plan. I feel we only have a handful of players who are at the level Hearts should aspire to. Clark (adequate), Kingsley, Kent, Shankland,if he gets his motivation back, Boyce, although his legs are going, Halkett, again a question mark over fitness, Varga hopefully and Oda. Everybody will have their own opinions about that list ( Devlin maybe) but the truth is we don't have a single player Celtic or even Rangers would want. 

Clark ffs, the guy excels at nothing and will back on the bench within a few weeks. 
Agree with the rest though. 

[Cynic]

48 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Clark ffs, the guy excels at nothing and will back on the bench within a few weeks. 
Agree with the rest though. 

I said Clarke was adequate. He is.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Cynic said:

I said Clarke was adequate. He is.

No hes not, his mistakes played a huge part in losing 3rd last season and has cost us goals again this season. Hes not even up to being 2nd choice and the sooner he ****s off the better. 

[Cynic]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

No hes not, his mistakes played a huge part in losing 3rd last season and has cost us goals again this season. Hes not even up to being 2nd choice and the sooner he ****s off the better. 

Playing behind that defence would have made Buffon look bad!!

[Hearts1975]

58 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Good point about Ginnelly, much underrated on here and has been missed a lot by the team and Shankland in particular. 

It's a massive point missed at times. And McKay tbh. I don't have the exact number of goals, but between Gino, Shanks and McKay last season, these 3 probably scored more goals than the rest of the team put together. 

 

We can argue all day long about Shanks "perceived" attitude on the pitch but the reality is that we just haven't replaced the goal threat that came from these 3. It's always a risk replacing someone who scored a lot of goals, but also acted as the main foil for your top scorer (obviously this is Gino). 

 

I mean combined, Vargas and Tagawa have scored 1 goal so far.

 

Our defensive record, (up to Saturday) was far better than last season. Forgetting managers for a second, there is your form guide right there. 

[Pasquale for King]

27 minutes ago, Cynic said:

Playing behind that defence would have made Buffon look bad!!

He made them worse, an awful GK who excels at no part of the game. 

[Pasquale for King]

28 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

It's a massive point missed at times. And McKay tbh. I don't have the exact number of goals, but between Gino, Shanks and McKay last season, these 3 probably scored more goals than the rest of the team put together. 

 

We can argue all day long about Shanks "perceived" attitude on the pitch but the reality is that we just haven't replaced the goal threat that came from these 3. It's always a risk replacing someone who scored a lot of goals, but also acted as the main foil for your top scorer (obviously this is Gino). 

 

I mean combined, Vargas and Tagawa have scored 1 goal so far.

 

Our defensive record, (up to Saturday) was far better than last season. Forgetting managers for a second, there is your form guide right there. 

Definitely, but the manager hasn’t really seen fit to play Tagawa, or Vargas/Oda as the player furthest forward to stretch defences. I know he missed a good chance but we only came into the game against Motherwell when Tagawa came on as they dropped 20 yards deeper. We really need to get back to a quick guy up top and help Shankland find spaces just behind. 

[Robbo-Jambo]

On 23/10/2023 at 08:37, Turkishcap said:

Going over the season so far, Killie, Dundee, Well, liedoon, hubz....2 points from 15 is relegation form.

If something dont click soon we could end up in freefall

 

Absolutely ******* embarrassing tbh.

[suds66]

5 hours ago, Carter said:

That's not quite what I said. I stated that since the first game of last season until the present, a period spanning 47 games for us and 46 games for St Mirren, we've both accumulated the same number of points. 

 

You might consider that to be acceptable. I consider it completely unacceptable given the disparity in resources. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone. 

You certainly are not.

[Hearts1975]

26 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Definitely, but the manager hasn’t really seen fit to play Tagawa, or Vargas/Oda as the player furthest forward to stretch defences. I know he missed a good chance but we only came into the game against Motherwell when Tagawa came on as they dropped 20 yards deeper. We really need to get back to a quick guy up top and help Shankland find spaces just behind. 

Totally. Ryan McGowan kept making that exact point on SATF last week and saying that one of the first things any SPL team has to do is have someone in the side who can stretch the opposition backline and get in behind. 

It looked like on Sunday we tried it with Vargas and as much as the boy has pace and hunger, it looks like circle in a square stuff, as I don't think positionally it's his game at all. 

Tagawa is the one you think could do it, but like u said, we haven't tried it enough far less see how it would work. 

[Cynic]

55 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

He made them worse, an awful GK who excels at no part of the game.

Agree to disagree. 

[Pasquale for King]

22 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Totally. Ryan McGowan kept making that exact point on SATF last week and saying that one of the first things any SPL team has to do is have someone in the side who can stretch the opposition backline and get in behind. 

It looked like on Sunday we tried it with Vargas and as much as the boy has pace and hunger, it looks like circle in a square stuff, as I don't think positionally it's his game at all. 

Tagawa is the one you think could do it, but like u said, we haven't tried it enough far less see how it would work. 

Absolutely. Lets hope we see it soon, Ibrox is the venue to have pacey front players imo. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Cynic said:

Agree to disagree. 

Ok. I thought you were a cynic 😜?

[soonbe110]

58 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Definitely, but the manager hasn’t really seen fit to play Tagawa, or Vargas/Oda as the player furthest forward to stretch defences. I know he missed a good chance but we only came into the game against Motherwell when Tagawa came on as they dropped 20 yards deeper. We really need to get back to a quick guy up top and help Shankland find spaces just behind. 

Tried it on Sunday and failed miserably 

[Cynic]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Ok. I thought you were a cynic 😜?

I'm in a good mood