Unreasonable

[BackOfTheNet]

21 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Ok the Hibs goal at Hampden in the semi, the Aberdeen goals up there in the 3-0 game, Aberdeen home where he lost his man at corner, Rangers 1st away, Motherwell goals away lost man at corner and dreaming at 2nd goal. There are many others where he was at fault but you dont want to see it so why waste any more time. You are part of a small minority defending him.
As for your peddling of him being the third best player last season thats frankly laughable. 

Only some of those examples he was the prime reason for conceding. Like the first goal against Hibs yesterday, people like to attribute blame to him when he at the most shared blame with others or others were more to blame. People are seeing what they want to see, and not seeing what they don’t want to see with other players. It’s about favourites for some reason, which personally I don’t get. I’m not a Sibbick fan or hater. I’m a Hearts fan, so why people react one way to one player’s errors over another perplexes me.

[bean counter]

An excellent Opening Post which has prompted an interesting debate

 

My take on yesterday is, like many, I'm very disappointed because we had the game won. Two things then impacted that. 

 

Firstly taking Lowry off and putting Benni on. At the time I thought ok Lowry was running on empty and Benni is a good replacement all be it, in my mind more defensive. In hindsight I think Denholm\Haring should have been the choice. That was down to Naismith.

 

Secondly Sibbick had a brain fart. It happens especially in young players when playing not in their favoured position. It hurts even more because it was V Hibs.

 

As to the fans reaction I think some fans have exaggerated expectations, and always expect instant success and action if thats not achieved, sadly I do think social media plays a big part in that and some are following their own agenda maybe because they feel slighted by something the Club or someone at the Club has done and that makes them negative.

 

Because we did not appoint Pep whoever we did appoint would be seen as the "cheap" option And I'm sure for some there will always be a reason to be negative about the Club.

 

I've seen the "It's not good enough and I'm not going back till \ as long as  ....

 

Mercer is there \ has gone

Pieman leaves

Vlad is in control

Levein is at the Club

Neilson is Manager

Budge is involved

 

I was at Tynecastle when we lost 7-0 to them ( imagine what that would have been like if we had social media then ) but I was still there yesterday and I'll be back at Tynecastle for the Celtic game and at Hampden for the semi final, because that's what I've always done ( and that's not a I'm a better supporter than you thing )

 

Naismith is learning on the job, will he be a good manager ?

 

Only time will tell but I think he could be. I'm encouraged by the small improvements I'm seeing and believe he should be given the time to show us what he can do and how far he can take us.

 

We are not ready to be at " the next level " but we need to be taking the small steps that will get us to be ready for the next level and I think Naismith could help us to take one of those small steps

 

 

 

[chrystaf]

1 hour ago, bean counter said:

An excellent Opening Post which has prompted an interesting debate

 

My take on yesterday is, like many, I'm very disappointed because we had the game won. Two things then impacted that. 

 

Firstly taking Lowry off and putting Benni on. At the time I thought ok Lowry was running on empty and Benni is a good replacement all be it, in my mind more defensive. In hindsight I think Denholm\Haring should have been the choice. That was down to Naismith.

 

Secondly Sibbick had a brain fart. It happens especially in young players when playing not in their favoured position. It hurts even more because it was V Hibs.

 

As to the fans reaction I think some fans have exaggerated expectations, and always expect instant success and action if thats not achieved, sadly I do think social media plays a big part in that and some are following their own agenda maybe because they feel slighted by something the Club or someone at the Club has done and that makes them negative.

 

Because we did not appoint Pep whoever we did appoint would be seen as the "cheap" option And I'm sure for some there will always be a reason to be negative about the Club.

 

I've seen the "It's not good enough and I'm not going back till \ as long as  ....

 

Mercer is there \ has gone

Pieman leaves

Vlad is in control

Levein is at the Club

Neilson is Manager

Budge is involved

 

I was at Tynecastle when we lost 7-0 to them ( imagine what that would have been like if we had social media then ) but I was still there yesterday and I'll be back at Tynecastle for the Celtic game and at Hampden for the semi final, because that's what I've always done ( and that's not a I'm a better supporter than you thing )

 

Naismith is learning on the job, will he be a good manager ?

 

Only time will tell but I think he could be. I'm encouraged by the small improvements I'm seeing and believe he should be given the time to show us what he can do and how far he can take us.

 

We are not ready to be at " the next level " but we need to be taking the small steps that will get us to be ready for the next level and I think Naismith could help us to take one of those small steps

 

 

 

Thanks for a most considered post.

[AC Mallin_51]

4 hours ago, Luckies1874 said:

Think you’ve made a lot of good posts since yesterday. However I’m curious as to what you now think will happen results wise. A couple of weeks ago you basically refused to set any targets but I don’t think it’s “unreasonable” 😬 to accept that results are going to become the be all and end all very soon! Improvement in performances will hopefully go hand in hand but the reality is that we need wins (well Naismith certainly does)! So what pressure are you willing to put on him in terms of results? Let’s hypothetically give him November as well as October, a fairly generous stance in my view: 

 

Celtic (H)

Rangers (A) 

Livingston (H)

Motherwell (A) 

St Johnstone (H) 

 

There is also the Rangers semi final but I’d assume most have a fairly low expectation level when it comes to that! To keep his job he needs league points. How many will he get? 
 

By the way December and the festive fixtures look horrific given our efforts away; Kilmarnock, Aberdeen, Celtic, Hibs and Livingston on the road 🤦‍♂️

 

The run from now til new year is actually terrifying 

[the posh bit]

2 hours ago, bean counter said:

An excellent Opening Post which has prompted an interesting debate

 

My take on yesterday is, like many, I'm very disappointed because we had the game won. Two things then impacted that. 

 

Firstly taking Lowry off and putting Benni on. At the time I thought ok Lowry was running on empty and Benni is a good replacement all be it, in my mind more defensive. In hindsight I think Denholm\Haring should have been the choice. That was down to Naismith.

 

Secondly Sibbick had a brain fart. It happens especially in young players when playing not in their favoured position. It hurts even more because it was V Hibs.

 

As to the fans reaction I think some fans have exaggerated expectations, and always expect instant success and action if thats not achieved, sadly I do think social media plays a big part in that and some are following their own agenda maybe because they feel slighted by something the Club or someone at the Club has done and that makes them negative.

 

Because we did not appoint Pep whoever we did appoint would be seen as the "cheap" option And I'm sure for some there will always be a reason to be negative about the Club.

 

I've seen the "It's not good enough and I'm not going back till \ as long as  ....

 

Mercer is there \ has gone

Pieman leaves

Vlad is in control

Levein is at the Club

Neilson is Manager

Budge is involved

 

I was at Tynecastle when we lost 7-0 to them ( imagine what that would have been like if we had social media then ) but I was still there yesterday and I'll be back at Tynecastle for the Celtic game and at Hampden for the semi final, because that's what I've always done ( and that's not a I'm a better supporter than you thing )

 

Naismith is learning on the job, will he be a good manager ?

 

Only time will tell but I think he could be. I'm encouraged by the small improvements I'm seeing and believe he should be given the time to show us what he can do and how far he can take us.

 

We are not ready to be at " the next level " but we need to be taking the small steps that will get us to be ready for the next level and I think Naismith could help us to take one of those small steps

 

 

 

 

Can't see anything in here to argue with. 👍

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Tbf, Antti is one of the good guys on here. Totally disagree with him on Naismith but it’s not like his arguments in favour of him aren’t reasoned (and could end up being right).

[August Landmesser]

6 hours ago, HopeDiouf said:

the league table doesn't lie. Results not good enough.

We're fourth mate

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

1 minute ago, August Landmesser said:

We're fourth mate

We ain’t going to be fourth after a round of 10 games. More like seventh.

[kingantti1874]

4 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Tbf, Antti is one of the good guys on here. Totally disagree with him on Naismith but it’s not like his arguments in favour of him aren’t reasoned (and could end up being right).

👍🏻 equally I could be wrong and I will admit it no bother if I am.  I just don’t think he’s had enough of an opportunity yet

 

A point in the not too distant future, if he doesn’t succeed I’ll be called king flip flop (I absolutely loved that btw) it’s more that ill support for longer and when I turn I turn.  🤣

 

when that happens you’ll know the end is nigh - I see to be on a similar wavelength to the board. When I cross over it’ll be done inside two weeks lol 

[Libertarian]

Taking off Lowry and bringing in Beni made perfect sense. We were two goals up and coasting. So it was sensible to bolster the midfield to make it difficult for Hibs to pressurise us. However Sibbick really messed up in a way that no one could have anticipated and this cost us two points.

[Firefox]

10 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

Taking off Lowry and bringing in Beni made perfect sense. We were two goals up and coasting. So it was sensible to bolster the midfield to make it difficult for Hibs to pressurise us. However Sibbick really messed up in a way that no one could have anticipated and this cost us two points.

That's my way of thinking too. After they equalised I thought we were still the better team and I thought Beni had a decent game. I also thought Offiah looked OK too. 

We were pretty solid defensively until Kingsley went off and had to reshuffle the back 4. Most other games Halliday would have been the sensible replacement, but Boyle & Youan would have had him on toast, so moving Rowles out to LB and bringing Offiah on at RB was the sensible thing to do.  There have been lots of people calling out for Sibbick to start at LCB in place of Rowles recently, but now we see why that hasn't happened.  I like Toby but he's a squad player just like Halliday

[The Old Tolbooth]

10 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

When was it exactly we became so unreasonable as a support? 

 

Yesterday. With the benefit of hindsight naisy got the subs and adjustments wrong. . But looking at it on face value there was a lot of logic behind the subs and the adjustments he made based on the players available to  him right now.  If we had a fit or match fit Oda, Mackay, Tagawa , Cochrane, Natty, Halkett those aren’t the changes he’d have made are they?

 

He isn’t the first manager to make a mistake with subs, and he certainly won’t be the last.  Imagine this forum had existed in 01-01-1998.  JJ would never have made the cup final it seems based on the views of some on here.  

 

There is also something very disingenuous with posts completely omitting the fact that he got the starting line up very very very right. We absolutely bossed the game until 2 individual errors, and even with the setback we were still the better side.  Looking at it in a balanced way it was as good a derby performance as we’ve had for years 20+ efforts at goal in a fixture which is usually turgid.  Highlight the positives where it’s due for god sake.  If Toby hadn’t had a brain fart then we’d be waxing lyrical about yesterday..

 

Undoubtedly it was a massive kick in the baws.  I hardly slept a wink ffs - absolute nightmare but surely we have to take the positives. 

 

We were very good yesterday, we’ve been on a decent run and have won as many away games this season as we did in the whole of last season, we’ve don’t this whilst missing a full first 11. Has it been good enough overall ? Absolutely not but I have seen improvement since McEvoy moved aside (that was a farce ) and I don’t see any reasons why we won’t continue to see improvement .  

 

If Naisy keeps making tactical errors over the next 5/6 then I will be all over it but it was only days ago he was being praised for tactical changes and subs against Killie and Ross county, so no pattern there yet is there.

Excellent post, I slated Naisy in the heat of the moment yesterday but on reflection, had we won that game he’d have been rightly given the plaudits. We played some good stuff yesterday and it was a bit of naivety on his behalf, but he’s a rookie manager learning the ropes and he needs time to learn them. The style of football is improving over the last 3 games, and 2 of them were away from home which is really encouraging. 

[EH11 2NL]

10 hours ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Manager chucks away a 2 goal lead at Tynecastle v them,never going to be pretty.

 

The same scoreline ended Neilson to the point that some fans will never forgive him.

 

Paulo Sergios football was mostly pish and boring but the fact he handed Hibs their arse time and time again means he will forever be remembered fondly.

 

This sums it all up on 1 post. Anyone accepting or excusing that collapse yesterday, even a little bit needs a big rethink. Decades of dominating the derby has been built on the back of this attitude that we do not lose to those *****, home or away. 

 

Throwing it in that manner would be bad enough at ER, but at home. Jesus ****.

[Tommy Brown]

11 minutes ago, Firefox said:

  There have been lots of people calling out for Sibbick to start at LCB in place of Rowles recently, but now we see why that hasn't happened.  I like Toby but he's a squad player just like Halliday

I loved Toby first time with his performance in a win against Rangers.

He believes himself that CB is his best position. He is needing to work hard at his game to play there.

Outstanding athlete, but can't head and prone to looking nervous In possession.

Disappointing that he failed to show when tried in CM.

Return of Halks, Nat and Cochrane will see no position  for him. A utility player of the bench.

Sad, I hate seeing any player fail, but I don't see him being here next season or maybe even next year.

[Holtie]

3 hours ago, bean counter said:

An excellent Opening Post which has prompted an interesting debate

 

My take on yesterday is, like many, I'm very disappointed because we had the game won. Two things then impacted that. 

 

Firstly taking Lowry off and putting Benni on. At the time I thought ok Lowry was running on empty and Benni is a good replacement all be it, in my mind more defensive. In hindsight I think Denholm\Haring should have been the choice. That was down to Naismith.

 

Secondly Sibbick had a brain fart. It happens especially in young players when playing not in their favoured position. It hurts even more because it was V Hibs.

 

As to the fans reaction I think some fans have exaggerated expectations, and always expect instant success and action if thats not achieved, sadly I do think social media plays a big part in that and some are following their own agenda maybe because they feel slighted by something the Club or someone at the Club has done and that makes them negative.

 

Because we did not appoint Pep whoever we did appoint would be seen as the "cheap" option And I'm sure for some there will always be a reason to be negative about the Club.

 

I've seen the "It's not good enough and I'm not going back till \ as long as  ....

 

Mercer is there \ has gone

Pieman leaves

Vlad is in control

Levein is at the Club

Neilson is Manager

Budge is involved

 

I was at Tynecastle when we lost 7-0 to them ( imagine what that would have been like if we had social media then ) but I was still there yesterday and I'll be back at Tynecastle for the Celtic game and at Hampden for the semi final, because that's what I've always done ( and that's not a I'm a better supporter than you thing )

 

Naismith is learning on the job, will he be a good manager ?

 

Only time will tell but I think he could be. I'm encouraged by the small improvements I'm seeing and believe he should be given the time to show us what he can do and how far he can take us.

 

We are not ready to be at " the next level " but we need to be taking the small steps that will get us to be ready for the next level and I think Naismith could help us to take one of those small steps

 

 

 

Good post from someone of my age - we have been there, done it, got the tee shirt! We can’t afford Pep, so let’s give Naismith a chance -initial signs are positive! We seem to be improving, albeit slowly, but yesterday was a good performance other than a daft 83 seconds. If Kingsley had not gone off I doubt we would lost these goals.

[August Landmesser]

1 hour ago, AC Mallin_51 said:

The run from now til new year is actually terrifying 

It's hardly terrifying, we're playing a load of clubs in the Scottish top flight. We'll win some, lose some and draw some, and at New Year we'll be somewhere between 3rd and 5th.

[Hearts1975]

11 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

When was it exactly we became so unreasonable as a support? 

 

Yesterday. With the benefit of hindsight naisy got the subs and adjustments wrong. . But looking at it on face value there was a lot of logic behind the subs and the adjustments he made based on the players available to  him right now.  If we had a fit or match fit Oda, Mackay, Tagawa , Cochrane, Natty, Halkett those aren’t the changes he’d have made are they?

 

He isn’t the first manager to make a mistake with subs, and he certainly won’t be the last.  Imagine this forum had existed in 01-01-1998.  JJ would never have made the cup final it seems based on the views of some on here.  

 

There is also something very disingenuous with posts completely omitting the fact that he got the starting line up very very very right. We absolutely bossed the game until 2 individual errors, and even with the setback we were still the better side.  Looking at it in a balanced way it was as good a derby performance as we’ve had for years 20+ efforts at goal in a fixture which is usually turgid.  Highlight the positives where it’s due for god sake.  If Toby hadn’t had a brain fart then we’d be waxing lyrical about yesterday..

 

Undoubtedly it was a massive kick in the baws.  I hardly slept a wink ffs - absolute nightmare but surely we have to take the positives. 

 

We were very good yesterday, we’ve been on a decent run and have won as many away games this season as we did in the whole of last season, we’ve don’t this whilst missing a full first 11. Has it been good enough overall ? Absolutely not but I have seen improvement since McEvoy moved aside (that was a farce ) and I don’t see any reasons why we won’t continue to see improvement .  

 

If Naisy keeps making tactical errors over the next 5/6 then I will be all over it but it was only days ago he was being praised for tactical changes and subs against Killie and Ross county, so no pattern there yet is there.

Absolutely spot on. Every single sentence. 

The frustration at the end of the game was horrible. 

That was purely because we let them back into a game that they were never winning on their own accord.  

 

That frustration has obviously got the better of some and the focus is all on the errors with the subs but at the same time, there is almost a refusal, in these same threads, to identify what the manager did well in the game.

 

I get the anger 100%. I felt it myself but other than the subs backfiring on us, I think he done everything else right in terms of setting us up for the game. Including the starting line up. 

 

 

 

 

[August Landmesser]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

We ain’t going to be fourth after a round of 10 games. More like seventh.

Nightmare. After ten games you say? 

 

Close the club down, we're getting relegated 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

16 minutes ago, August Landmesser said:

Nightmare. After ten games you say? 

 

Close the club down, we're getting relegated 

I know you’ve been embarrassed but there’s no need to lash out

[jamboinglasgow]

Completely agree with the OP on this.

 

I find there is people on here that you saying anything positive about a game or say that back an under fire player or manager, then your accused of having no ambition, that you accepting mediocrity. But the thing is, two things can be true at the same time, first yesterday was disappointing that mistakes in defence cost us two points and we need to stop that to do better. The second is yesterday was big improvement in how we set up and play, where we are going the right way to being a stronger team.

 

Constant criticism and calling for everyone to be sacked is not being ambitious. Because its not based on any reality. You can criticise and say things can change, that is always fair. But saying we need to win every game and if we dont then we are terrible is not ambitious, its unrealistic.

 

Do I think we have started the season well? No. We have been too poor in attack against teams that set up to frustrate us and it has cost us. Do I think we are going in the right direction? Yes, we are getting our identity more, we are seeing players start to take opportunities and make more of an impact (Forrest, Lowry, Nieuwenhof in recent games.) DO I think we are fortunate that none of our rivals have started well? Yeah, but I also think thats par for the course with the Premiership outside of Celtic.

 

I also getting tired of the idea that the injuries we have is "no excuse." If we had a couple key players out then I would agree its an excuse. But thats not what has happened, we currently have 4 of our best GK/defense out, our attack is lost quite a few players meaning we cant play a settled attack (I would argue our best right winger in Oda and our most creative player in McKay being out is big.) Our main full backs are now out (including our most consistent player under Naismith in Atkinson.) The number of injuries has meant that we are constantly changing line ups which is not helped provide a settled team. You may think we should beat teams regardless and we have more players than other teams, but we are not the Old Firm, the gulf between us and other teams below us is not as great that we have many match winners in our squad. We can do better but lets not delude ourselves that the number of injuries we have doesn't have a big effect.

[stirlo]

1 hour ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

Excellent post, I slated Naisy in the heat of the moment yesterday but on reflection, had we won that game he’d have been rightly given the plaudits. We played some good stuff yesterday and it was a bit of naivety on his behalf, but he’s a rookie manager learning the ropes and he needs time to learn them. The style of football is improving over the last 3 games, and 2 of them were away from home which is really encouraging. 

 

My only criticism of the tactics/general performance yesterday is that we could have been more ruthless on the break. There were times when we had a potential 3 on 2 or 4 on 3 where we were just too slow in breaking. But the reality is that but for some crazy defending we would have won that game very comfortably. No manager - whether Naisy or anyone else - can legislate for a player doing what Sibbick did at the second Hibs goal.

[Sinbad the Sailor]

Perfect OP

[The Black Prince]

As an Australian who takes an interest in how lots of ex A Leaguers go in foreign leagues, I lurk on about 10 forums. Don't post on all of them.

 

If they all have one thing in common it is exactly what the OP identified. Incredibly bipolar about their team being brilliant/dugshite and frequently within the one match thread. Mind you, Celtic and Rangers forums are far worse than here. You lot are comparatively sane.

 

The first time I ever posted on the Rangers forum, I got banned. For what? you might ask...

 

I said words to the effect of: Let's face it... Ange was a pretty decent manager. Celtic were lucky to have him.

 

That was a criminal offence. Anyone calling him Ange is clearly a Celtic Troll. I was howled down by numerous posters, then banned. Hilarious really. Fortunately I didnae gie a **** but I can no longer read their amusing meltdowns.

[Sir PH]

2 minutes ago, The Black Prince said:

As an Australian who takes an interest in how lots of ex A Leaguers go in foreign leagues, I lurk on about 10 forums. Don't post on all of them.

 

If they all have one thing in common it is exactly what the OP identified. Incredibly bipolar about their team being brilliant/dugshite and frequently within the one match thread. Mind you, Celtic and Rangers forums are far worse than here. You lot are comparatively sane.

 

The first time I ever posted on the Rangers forum, I got banned. For what? you might ask...

 

I said words to the effect of: Let's face it... Ange was a pretty decent manager. Celtic were lucky to have him.

 

That was a criminal offence. Anyone calling him Ange is clearly a Celtic Troll. I was howled down by numerous posters, then banned. Hilarious really. Fortunately I didnae gie a **** but I can no longer read their amusing meltdowns.

Australian you say?

Edited October 8, 2023 by Sir PH

[August Landmesser]

2 hours ago, EH11 2NL said:

This sums it all up on 1 post. Anyone accepting or excusing that collapse yesterday, even a little bit needs a big rethink. Decades of dominating the derby has been built on the back of this attitude that we do not lose to those *****, home or away. 

 

Throwing it in that manner would be bad enough at ER, but at home. Jesus ****.

We didn't lose to them

[Pasquale for King]

9 hours ago, bean counter said:

An excellent Opening Post which has prompted an interesting debate

 

My take on yesterday is, like many, I'm very disappointed because we had the game won. Two things then impacted that. 

 

Firstly taking Lowry off and putting Benni on. At the time I thought ok Lowry was running on empty and Benni is a good replacement all be it, in my mind more defensive. In hindsight I think Denholm\Haring should have been the choice. That was down to Naismith.

 

Secondly Sibbick had a brain fart. It happens especially in young players when playing not in their favoured position. It hurts even more because it was V Hibs.

 

As to the fans reaction I think some fans have exaggerated expectations, and always expect instant success and action if thats not achieved, sadly I do think social media plays a big part in that and some are following their own agenda maybe because they feel slighted by something the Club or someone at the Club has done and that makes them negative.

 

Because we did not appoint Pep whoever we did appoint would be seen as the "cheap" option And I'm sure for some there will always be a reason to be negative about the Club.

 

I've seen the "It's not good enough and I'm not going back till \ as long as  ....

 

Mercer is there \ has gone

Pieman leaves

Vlad is in control

Levein is at the Club

Neilson is Manager

Budge is involved

 

I was at Tynecastle when we lost 7-0 to them ( imagine what that would have been like if we had social media then ) but I was still there yesterday and I'll be back at Tynecastle for the Celtic game and at Hampden for the semi final, because that's what I've always done ( and that's not a I'm a better supporter than you thing )

 

Naismith is learning on the job, will he be a good manager ?

 

Only time will tell but I think he could be. I'm encouraged by the small improvements I'm seeing and believe he should be given the time to show us what he can do and how far he can take us.

 

We are not ready to be at " the next level " but we need to be taking the small steps that will get us to be ready for the next level and I think Naismith could help us to take one of those small steps

 

 

 

All fair enough but CH is Tobys favoured position, he doesn’t have the attributes to play there. 

[Pasquale for King]

6 hours ago, Libertarian said:

Taking off Lowry and bringing in Beni made perfect sense. We were two goals up and coasting. So it was sensible to bolster the midfield to make it difficult for Hibs to pressurise us. However Sibbick really messed up in a way that no one could have anticipated and this cost us two points.

Anyone thats watched Toby at CH could’ve anticipated his mistake, hes done tat a few times. 

[Pasquale for King]

5 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said:

Completely agree with the OP on this.

 

I find there is people on here that you saying anything positive about a game or say that back an under fire player or manager, then your accused of having no ambition, that you accepting mediocrity. But the thing is, two things can be true at the same time, first yesterday was disappointing that mistakes in defence cost us two points and we need to stop that to do better. The second is yesterday was big improvement in how we set up and play, where we are going the right way to being a stronger team.

 

Constant criticism and calling for everyone to be sacked is not being ambitious. Because its not based on any reality. You can criticise and say things can change, that is always fair. But saying we need to win every game and if we dont then we are terrible is not ambitious, its unrealistic.

 

Do I think we have started the season well? No. We have been too poor in attack against teams that set up to frustrate us and it has cost us. Do I think we are going in the right direction? Yes, we are getting our identity more, we are seeing players start to take opportunities and make more of an impact (Forrest, Lowry, Nieuwenhof in recent games.) DO I think we are fortunate that none of our rivals have started well? Yeah, but I also think thats par for the course with the Premiership outside of Celtic.

 

I also getting tired of the idea that the injuries we have is "no excuse." If we had a couple key players out then I would agree its an excuse. But thats not what has happened, we currently have 4 of our best GK/defense out, our attack is lost quite a few players meaning we cant play a settled attack (I would argue our best right winger in Oda and our most creative player in McKay being out is big.) Our main full backs are now out (including our most consistent player under Naismith in Atkinson.) The number of injuries has meant that we are constantly changing line ups which is not helped provide a settled team. You may think we should beat teams regardless and we have more players than other teams, but we are not the Old Firm, the gulf between us and other teams below us is not as great that we have many match winners in our squad. We can do better but lets not delude ourselves that the number of injuries we have doesn't have a big effect.

You kind of contradict yourself there, you say we cant expect to beat teams regardless after saying we played well and defensive mistakes cost us the victory?

 Is it ok to wonder why we have so many injuries or question why we have amassed so many injury prone players?

[Pasquale for King]

5 hours ago, stirlo said:

 

My only criticism of the tactics/general performance yesterday is that we could have been more ruthless on the break. There were times when we had a potential 3 on 2 or 4 on 3 where we were just too slow in breaking. But the reality is that but for some crazy defending we would have won that game very comfortably. No manager - whether Naisy or anyone else - can legislate for a player doing what Sibbick did at the second Hibs goal.

You cant legislate for that kind of mistake but you can not play a player in a position that he is clearly incapable of playing without making these mistakes. 

[GinRummy]

2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

You cant legislate for that kind of mistake but you can not play a player in a position that he is clearly incapable of playing without making these mistakes. 

Agree to an extent but he played there nearly the whole of last season. Asking him to slot in for half an hour shouldn’t have been that big a deal but it was and it didn’t work. Hopefully he’s not needed there again. 

[David McCaig]

4 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

You cant legislate for that kind of mistake but you can not play a player in a position that he is clearly incapable of playing without making these mistakes. 

Surely you can legislate to an extent by not withdrawing your creative outlet and opting to go ultra defensive for the last half hour?

[David McCaig]

11 hours ago, August Landmesser said:

We're fourth mate

Rangers and Celtic next up, so realistically we won't be top 6 after 10 games of the season.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

2 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Surely you can legislate to an extent by not withdrawing your creative outlet and opting to go ultra defensive for the last half hour?

Absolutely, Naismith Fcked up and it's indefensible in my opinion 

[The Black Prince]

9 hours ago, Sir PH said:

Australian you say?

Ach, why not?

 

Ahm fae Sydney masel.

[GinRummy]

15 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Rangers and Celtic next up, so realistically we won't be top 6 after 10 games of the season.

11 is surely a better benchmark.

[kingantti1874]

4 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

You cant legislate for that kind of mistake but you can not play a player in a position that he is clearly incapable of playing without making these mistakes. 

we are scraping the bottom. Presumably none of the options were good including offiah 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

we are scraping the bottom. Presumably none of the options were good including offiah 

Surely makes sense to put Halliday on who's used to playing there and leave everything else the same rather than disrupting the whole defence?

[Eddiepolio3]

The other one simple fact is that Shankland just hasn't turned up for weeks now. Even if he had banged half the goals he'd scored at this point last season we'd be sitting comfortably in 3rd. 

Horrendous injury list (again!!!), brainfarts and shanks off form can't be blamed on Naismith.

[Sir PH]

43 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Surely you can legislate to an extent by not withdrawing your creative outlet and opting to go ultra defensive for the last half hour?

We didn't go ultra defensive. Not even close to it. We were the better team after the substitution and created the most chances.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Just now, Eddiepolio3 said:

The other one simple fact is that Shankland just hasn't turned up for weeks now. Even if he had banged half the goals he'd scored at this point last season we'd be sitting comfortably in 3rd. 

Horrendous injury list (again!!!), brainfarts and shanks off form can't be blamed on Naismith.

Making stupid substitutions can absolutely be blamed on Naismith 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 minute ago, Sir PH said:

We didn't go ultra defensive. Not even close to it. We were the better team after the substitution and created the most chances.

We absolutely did go more defensive! Do you think Beni is as attack minded as lowry ?

[Sir PH]

2 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

We absolutely did go more defensive! Do you think Beni is as attack minded as lowry ?

No, he's not. But that doesn't mean we went "ultra defensive" we didn't. But I suppose the narrative is now out there that we did, so it will become fact. 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 minute ago, Sir PH said:

No, he's not. But that doesn't mean we went "ultra defensive" we didn't. But I suppose the narrative is now out there that we did, so it will become fact. 

No doubt in my mind with that substitution he wanted to hold into what we had and it totally sent the wrong message in my opinion , that was our creativity taken on the pitch to be replaced by a defensive midfielder 

[Sir PH]

2 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

No doubt in my mind with that substitution he wanted to hold into what we had and it totally sent the wrong message in my opinion , that was our creativity taken on the pitch to be replaced by a defensive midfielder 

That defensive midfielder very nearly won us the game. But I can also acknowledge his mistake which lead to their goal. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Sir PH

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Just now, Sir PH said:

That defensive midfielder very nearly won us the game. But I cam also acknowledge his mistake which lead to their goal. 

Admirably he was very unlucky with shot that went over the bar but at that point the game should've been out of sight if wrong substitutions hadn't been made in my opinion 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Sir PH said:

That defensive midfielder very nearly won us the game. But I can also acknowledge his mistake which lead to their goal. 

I hope training this week is all about keeping the ball down when you shoot. How many shots have we had sail over the bar in the last few games?

 

Might just be me but we seem to sky an awful lot of efforts.

[Sir PH]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

I hope training this week is all about keeping the ball down when you shoot. How many shots have we had sail over the bar in the last few games?

 

Might just be me but we seem to sky an awful lot of efforts.

We do. And Lowry needs some practice on his corners and free kicks. He seems to hit the first man a helluva lot. 

[GinRummy]

10 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

We do. And Lowry needs some practice on his corners and free kicks. He seems to hit the first man a helluva lot. 

It's weird. I can't remember which game it was but just after he signed there was a game where he took all the corners and every one was a good corner. Watched the highlights back on Hearts Tv and Lawrie suggested maybe we were trying something pre-planned to the near post, seems unlikely to me and I thought they were just poor corners.

[soonbe110]

15 hours ago, bean counter said:

An excellent Opening Post which has prompted an interesting debate

 

My take on yesterday is, like many, I'm very disappointed because we had the game won. Two things then impacted that. 

 

Firstly taking Lowry off and putting Benni on. At the time I thought ok Lowry was running on empty and Benni is a good replacement all be it, in my mind more defensive. In hindsight I think Denholm\Haring should have been the choice. That was down to Naismith.

 

Secondly Sibbick had a brain fart. It happens especially in young players when playing not in their favoured position. It hurts even more because it was V Hibs.

 

As to the fans reaction I think some fans have exaggerated expectations, and always expect instant success and action if thats not achieved, sadly I do think social media plays a big part in that and some are following their own agenda maybe because they feel slighted by something the Club or someone at the Club has done and that makes them negative.

 

Because we did not appoint Pep whoever we did appoint would be seen as the "cheap" option And I'm sure for some there will always be a reason to be negative about the Club.

 

I've seen the "It's not good enough and I'm not going back till \ as long as  ....

 

Mercer is there \ has gone

Pieman leaves

Vlad is in control

Levein is at the Club

Neilson is Manager

Budge is involved

 

I was at Tynecastle when we lost 7-0 to them ( imagine what that would have been like if we had social media then ) but I was still there yesterday and I'll be back at Tynecastle for the Celtic game and at Hampden for the semi final, because that's what I've always done ( and that's not a I'm a better supporter than you thing )

 

Naismith is learning on the job, will he be a good manager ?

 

Only time will tell but I think he could be. I'm encouraged by the small improvements I'm seeing and believe he should be given the time to show us what he can do and how far he can take us.

 

We are not ready to be at " the next level " but we need to be taking the small steps that will get us to be ready for the next level and I think Naismith could help us to take one of those small steps

 

 

 

Good post 

[kingantti1874]

41 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Surely makes sense to put Halliday on who's used to playing there and leave everything else the same rather than disrupting the whole defence?

Halliday in v boyle

Offiah central 

sibbick central

 

Be honest there are no good choices at all.  Easier with hindsight but no one next to me was shouting or thinking he got it wrong when Kingsley went off.