*** Kilmarnock v Heart of Midlothian - match day thread ***

[TheBigO]

3 minutes ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Boyce not shooting on Sat was borderline criminal. 

Hm, which one?  There was a fair amount of criminality on Sat, maybe I'd popped to the kitchen to refresh refreshments when this happened.  He does have previous for it.

 

I do feel he's giving us more than Shanks at present though.  Literally nowt coming of for Shanks, whereas Boyce is holding the ball and trying to make things happen at least,

[pettigrewsstylist]

7 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

The guy seems scared to shoot. Actually don't think I've ever seen him score a goal from outside the box either, his long range shooting is appalling. Intelligent player but takes far too long on the ball. 

It was clear sight at goal, after a great piece of footwork it has to be said.

If he cant shoot from there, then where are we at as a squad.

Epitomy of "fine margins" "poor decision making" and "bravery to make something happen" soundbytes.

Edited September 25, 2023 by pettigrewsstylist

[wavydavy]

25 minutes ago, DG_HMFC said:

 

 

We don't have any ball carriers from the middle of the park. A Paul Hartley or a Colin Cameron would make a whole world of a difference to our dynamic.

 

That's exactly why we have 65 to 70% possession in games with barely any threat on the opposition goals and yet we never once seemed to have an attacking central midfielder on our shopping list.

 

Is that Naismith/McAvoy's choice or Savage ?

 

Every central mid we have is a defensive one and yet we still lose goals.

[pettigrewsstylist]

3 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Hm, which one?  There was a fair amount of criminality on Sat, maybe I'd popped to the kitchen to refresh refreshments when this happened.  He does have previous for it.

 

I do feel he's giving us more than Shanks at present though.  Literally nowt coming of for Shanks, whereas Boyce is holding the ball and trying to make things happen at least,

Great footwork after receiving ball from Shankland, then laid it, out right to Atkinson. 1st half. 

[ollie2004]

On 23/09/2023 at 22:47, Thomaso said:

3 out of 4 there. The LC is woven into our history and is certainly not “shite”! I would love to see us win it before I pop my clogs!

Perhaps an omen, but I was at Hampden when we last won it beating Killie 1 nil in the pouring rain, Tiny Wharton was ref that day not a ref to argue with!

[pettigrewsstylist]

1 minute ago, wavydavy said:

 

That's exactly why we have 65 to 70% possession in games with barely any threat on the opposition goals and yet we never once seemed to have an attacking central midfielder on our shopping list.

 

Is that Naismith/McAvoy's choice or Savage ?

 

Every central mid we have is a defensive one and yet we still lose goals.

Also means opposition knows we are coming down flanks and makes us easy to smother.

[wavydavy]

6 minutes ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Also means opposition knows we are coming down flanks and makes us easy to smother.

 

Exactly.  That was Robbie's failing as well. No plan B when teams doubled up on the flanks and stopped that route.

 

Naismith/McAvoy doing exactly the same.

 

Other teams who have pace up front hit a long ball over defences but we don't ever do that because of the lack of pace in Boyce and Shankland.

 

We did seem to do it in a couple of games last season when Naismith took over and Oda benefitted from it but we haven't done it this season.

 

Teams are wise to our tactic of passing the ball about aimlessly at the back and they just let us have the ball because they know that we are not harming them in our own half of the pitch.

Edited September 25, 2023 by wavydavy

[pettigrewsstylist]

5 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

Exactly.  That was Robbie's failing as well. No plan B when teams doubled up on the flanks and stopped that route.

 

Naismith/McAvoy doing exactly the same.

 

Other teams who have pace up front hit a long ball over defences but we don't ever do that because of the lack of pace in Boyce and Shankland.

 

We did seem to do it in a couple of games last season when Naismith took over and Oda benefitted from it but we haven't done it this season.

 

Teams are wise to our tactic of passing the ball about aimlessly at the back and they just let us have the ball because they know that we are not harming them in our own half of the pitch.

You need pace to go long, without it its no threat.

If you are playing Hearts just keep shelling it to Rowles and eventually you will get some joy.

[wavydavy]

1 minute ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

You need pace to go long, without it its no threat.

If you are playing Hearts just keep shelling it to Rowles and eventually you will get some joy.

 

I know presumably that is why we signed Tagawa, Oda and Vargas. The first two injured at the moment but we still have Vargas.

[Mundaydog]

After the start to the season.

especially Saturday its all just a bit Meh! at the moment.

Actually glad to be travelling with work for the next few weeks and missing some games.

My fear for Tuesday is getting a proper going over with either someone getting a serious injury keeping them out for months or someone getting sent off (can’t mind if league cup Reds keep you out of league games).

Naismith himself must know if he loses Tuesday and next Saturday its highly unlikely he be in charge for the Hibs game.

The article in the Herald today on the appointment of Naismith, our pedestrian style of possession based football, poor recruitment and the decision making at board level are exactly what have been said for months on here.

[Carter]

10 minutes ago, Mundaydog said:

After the start to the season.

especially Saturday its all just a bit Meh! at the moment.

Actually glad to be travelling with work for the next few weeks and missing some games.

My fear for Tuesday is getting a proper going over with either someone getting a serious injury keeping them out for months or someone getting sent off (can’t mind if league cup Reds keep you out of league games).

Naismith himself must know if he loses Tuesday and next Saturday its highly unlikely he be in charge for the Hibs game.

The article in the Herald today on the appointment of Naismith, our pedestrian style of possession based football, poor recruitment and the decision making at board level are exactly what have been said for months on here.

Pundits and Journalists are starting to point out the issues that have been stated on here for months. Rowles is identified as the weak link at teams will play on that and they to expose him. Our midfield options are all far too similar, relatively safe in possession and have an aversion to getting ahead of the ball. There is also a horrendous lack of pace in the side.

 

All of these points are now being made on radio/Sportscene/Written press etc. Our upcoming fixtures are being highlighted too. There is absolutely no hiding place now. 

 

Lose tomorrow night and things will get incredibly tough for Naismith. Lose the next two and the pressure ahead of the derby will be enormous.

 

Far too many of the group that choked/chucked it last season are still there. They proved what they are by being part of that. What we're witnessing just now shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Naismith will ultimately go, before the end if next month if not earlier. But anyone coming in will have the same problems with a number of players within this group. They're weak and cannot be trusted. 

[wavydavy]

2 minutes ago, Carter said:

Pundits and Journalists are starting to point out the issues that have been stated on here for months. Rowles is identified as the weak link at teams will play on that and they to expose him. Our midfield options are all far too similar, relatively safe in possession and have an aversion to getting ahead of the ball. There is also a horrendous lack of pace in the side.

 

All of these points are now being made on radio/Sportscene/Written press etc. Our upcoming fixtures are being highlighted too. There is absolutely no hiding place now. 

 

Lose tomorrow night and things will get incredibly tough for Naismith. Lose the next two and the pressure ahead of the derby will be enormous.

 

Far too many of the group that choked/chucked it last season are still there. They proved what they are by being part of that. What we're witnessing just now shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Naismith will ultimately go, before the end if next month if not earlier. But anyone coming in will have the same problems with a number of players within this group. They're weak and cannot be trusted. 

 

If he goes then they need to empty McAvoy and Savage  as well.

[upgotheheads]

Clark

 

Sibbick

Kent

Rowles

Kingsley

 

Haring 

Devlin

 

Denholm

Beni

Vargas 

 

Shankland.

 

 

Denholm because he is young, motivated, mobile, and can hit a good long ball accurately.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by upgotheheads

[upgotheheads]

10 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

If he goes then they need to empty McAvoy and Savage  as well.

 

I was not exactly unhappy when Neilson was ditched, but I did realise that dumping a previously successful, if boring, manager has its risks. What I was thinking of is the situation we are in now. 

[been here before]

14 hours ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

So your solution is to play Haring 

 

And persevere with Boyce and Shankland. Aye, both those things will definitely assist with the mythical "quick attacking style". And that's before even considering the pitch.

 

I'd genuinelly rather play with 10 men than include Treatment Table Pete.

[Skippy Doodle]

✍️ - Please take 5 minutes out of your day to read my match preview for our league cup tie tomorrow

 

https://www.amorusoletsitrun.com/blog-1

[Prehen]

2 hours ago, TheBigO said:

Zander

Toby Kent Rowles Kingsley

Cam Beni

Vargas Grant Forrest

Boyce

 

With Gordon, Halkett, Natty, Cochrane, McKay, Oda and Tagawa out and Shanks I'd say clearly needing to clear his head, I'm not sure what else we can do?  Newy could play, Haring could play, but I don't see that being far different from the above.

 

Another option would be chucking Tait in midfield, or McLuckie or Sandilands in for Forrest out wide.

 

They need to show up, it's as simple as that.  Don't over think it, want that ball more than them and when we get it, look instantly for Boyce, or into corners for Vargas and Forrest to run onto/chase down.

McLuckie out of favour, not even with B Team at the moment, as currently playing and training with u18s. Agree with Tait (2 bench appearances and no minutes - criminal). Kirk trained with first team on Friday.

Lots of SPL team playing youngsters this weekend. Interesting Hearts showing no signs of following suit.

[Chimp]

40 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

I'd genuinelly rather play with 10 men than include Treatment Table Pete.

 

As would I.

[Shooter McGavin]

Absolutely dreading this game to be honest.

 

Fair play to those travelling through for it.

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Mundaydog said:

After the start to the season.

especially Saturday its all just a bit Meh! at the moment.

Actually glad to be travelling with work for the next few weeks and missing some games.

My fear for Tuesday is getting a proper going over with either someone getting a serious injury keeping them out for months or someone getting sent off (can’t mind if league cup Reds keep you out of league games).

Naismith himself must know if he loses Tuesday and next Saturday its highly unlikely he be in charge for the Hibs game.

The article in the Herald today on the appointment of Naismith, our pedestrian style of possession based football, poor recruitment and the decision making at board level are exactly what have been said for months on here.

The only good thing that would come out of a good doing tomorrow would be that it might force the Boards hand to make a much-needed change in leadership. Everything else would be damaging to the club and players. 

[TheBigO]

1 hour ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Great footwork after receiving ball from Shankland, then laid it, out right to Atkinson. 1st half. 

Oh yeah, I think the weight of his pass was more my issue, he could have set up Natty with a good clear shot but overhit it.  Nat did cut it back and he got a decent strike in tbf.

 

But you're right in that I'd like a CF to generally be selfish, so get it wrong by taking the shot, if you're gona get it wrong!!!!

[TheBigO]

9 minutes ago, Prehen said:

McLuckie out of favour, not even with B Team at the moment, as currently playing and training with u18s. Agree with Tait (2 bench appearances and no minutes - criminal). Kirk trained with first team on Friday.

Lots of SPL team playing youngsters this weekend. Interesting Hearts showing no signs of following suit.

Ah really thanks for correcting - wonder the deal with McLuckie, hopefully a blip for the lad and he regains his place and gets back on track.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

11 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

Absolutely dreading this game to be honest.

 

Fair play to those travelling through for it.

Going through and dreading it 

[Prehen]

8 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Ah really thanks for correcting - wonder the deal with McLuckie, hopefully a blip for the lad and he regains his place and gets back on track.

Suspect so, the boy scored the winner on Friday night, so great way to answer any critics. Great Hearts team goal against a very strong Hamilton side.

[feedthefox]

For some reason my 2 boys want to go. I did all I could to dissuede them but they're determined and it's no2's birthday tomorrow so have relented.

 

Question is can I buy tickets from ticket office tomorrow morning? (I've assumed it's closed as per usual today) It's my only chance of being spared the 2hour drive plus the inevitable mysery. 

 

Thanks in advance.

[gorgieshuffle]

Huge opportunity of a semi final, in a competition we have an embarrassing record in and which Celtic are already out of. Absolutely no confidence that we have what’s required to win. I hope I’m wrong but it’s much more likely it’s meltdown in 30 plus hours from now, than celebration. 
Terrible surface which has been narrowed, Killie to sit in a 541 shape and hit on the counter, wait for our inevitable mistake/individual error and play on set pieces. As usual we’ll have the majority of possession but won’t know how to break down an organised and narrow Killie and will play into their hands. 

[Sir PH]

This cup is wide open this year. Celtic are out, Rangers are no great shakes and the rest we are more than capable of beating in a one-off game. I know performances have been poor and very frustrating, but a bit of positivity going into the game wouldn't do any harm. 

 

I reckon we'll win.

[PapaShango]

I would leave Clark out for this one, don't think he helps the defence much at the moment and has looked suspect for a while. 

 

Try Vargas through the middle similar to how Gino played, we need pace up top big time, Boyce and Shankland can't play together. 

[PapaShango]

11 minutes ago, gorgieshuffle said:

Huge opportunity of a semi final, in a competition we have an embarrassing record in and which Celtic are already out of. Absolutely no confidence that we have what’s required to win. I hope I’m wrong but it’s much more likely it’s meltdown in 30 plus hours from now, than celebration. 
Terrible surface which has been narrowed, Killie to sit in a 541 shape and hit on the counter, wait for our inevitable mistake/individual error and play on set pieces. As usual we’ll have the majority of possession but won’t know how to break down an organised and narrow Killie and will play into their hands. 

This is where I am as well, can't help think that this will be a 1-0 or 2-0 defeat with us going out with a whimper. Another insipid away performance will have the knives out even more. 

[Swanny17]

Clark

 

Offiah  Kent   Sibbick   Kingsley

 

Devlin   Beni

 

Vargas   Grant   Lowry

 

Boyce

[DS98]

I’d go for the biggest, quickest defence available for this one. Get some actual ball players on the pitch who want to go forward. Beni and Devlin would be ideal in the 2 but I suspect 2 games in 3 days might be too much for Beni at this time. Clark, Shankland and Rowles need dropped. 
 

 

                       McGovern

           Offiah Kent Sibbick Kingsley

                     Beni   Devlin

              Vargas Grant Lowry 

                         Boyce 

 

 

[i8hibsh]

With Celtic out the opportunity is there.  Are these players really going to let Kilmarnock win this and have some diddy team likely lift the cup.  Endless diddy teams have won this trophy and we continue to fall short.  Really want some kind of fight from these imposters.

 

Kilmarnock 0 Hearts 1

[feedthefox]

Can tickets still be bought from TO tomorrow morning?

[ford donald]

3 hours ago, wavydavy said:

 

That's exactly why we have 65 to 70% possession in games with barely any threat on the opposition goals and yet we never once seemed to have an attacking central midfielder on our shopping list.

 

Is that Naismith/McAvoy's choice or Savage ?

 

Every central mid we have is a defensive one and yet we still lose goals.

 

Hartley,Cameron class acts and commitment,glad i witnessed it.

[wavydavy]

2 minutes ago, ford donald said:

 

Hartley,Cameron class acts and commitment,glad i witnessed it.

 

Me to. Unfortuantely it is very hard to find those type of players.

[TexasAndy]

53 minutes ago, PapaShango said:

I would leave Clark out for this one, don't think he helps the defence much at the moment and has looked suspect for a while. 

 

Try Vargas through the middle similar to how Gino played, we need pace up top big time, Boyce and Shankland can't play together. 

I have been thinking this lately.  I think it is a big part of Shankland's loss of form.    We need one of those with two faster forwards, Vargas and Oda (if fit).  Also need to give the 2 fast players freedom to move about up front.  Oda and Ginnelly did that effectively towards end of last season.  

[ford donald]

1 hour ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Going through and dreading it 

 

Yes.confidence has been shattered.

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, wavydavy said:

 

If he goes then they need to empty McAvoy and Savage  as well.

I would almost guarantee McAvoy will be put in charge and given an opportunity to get the job. 

[The Old Tolbooth]

Not looking forward to this one at all! 

[MarkDevriesScores4]

1 hour ago, Sir PH said:

This cup is wide open this year. Celtic are out, Rangers are no great shakes and the rest we are more than capable of beating in a one-off game.

Precisely why I would be furious if we didn’t progress tomorrow evening. Rarely get a better shot at a cup we’ve not won in a long long time. 
 

if we lose, it’s a major opportunity missed by our rookie manager and I think he needs to go. I’m hoping we get a result.

[wavydavy]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I would almost guarantee McAvoy will be put in charge and given an opportunity to get the job. 

 

That's why I said he and Savage should also go. 

[wavydavy]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I would almost guarantee McAvoy will be put in charge and given an opportunity to get the job. 

 

He did well at Preston right enough. 🤣

[Ricardo Quaresma]

18 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I would almost guarantee McAvoy will be put in charge and given an opportunity to get the job. 

 

F that, naw, just naw; if anything he needs to go back to the youth team

 

Anyone for Webster Assistant?

 

I'm not entirely sure how much of a problem the players have with FM, but any other workplace this would likely be an issue

 

Hope that's wrong and not an issue, but I wouldn't be opposed to him going back to the youth team

[wavydavy]

2 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

F that, naw, just naw; if anything he needs to go back to the youth team

 

Anyone for Webster Assistant?

 

I'm not entirely sure how much of a problem the players have with FM, but any other workplace this would likely be an issue

 

Hope that's wrong and not an issue, but I wouldn't be opposed to him going back to the youth team

 

I would. He should be out the door along with his mate Savage if Naismith goes. They have all been complicit in this debacle

[Ricardo Quaresma]

2 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

I would. He should be out the door along with his mate Savage if Naismith goes. They have all been complicit in this debacle

 

At the paok home game, he was trying to shout, not very loudly, with meek hand gestures; the players were over the other side where the ball was and the noise from fans was loud

 

Was he just trying to be seen and heard for any UEFA people at pitchside? Why? They saw him

 

But he was never vocal enough and the players didn't seem to be paying attention at any time before the switch back to SN

 

I think Webster would add legitmacy if he switched with FM now

 

 

 

* Just an FYI, Webster is also at the A Licence stage already

[pettigrewsstylist]

1 hour ago, DS98 said:

I’d go for the biggest, quickest defence available for this one. Get some actual ball players on the pitch who want to go forward. Beni and Devlin would be ideal in the 2 but I suspect 2 games in 3 days might be too much for Beni at this time. Clark, Shankland and Rowles need dropped. 
 

 

                       McGovern

           Offiah Kent Sibbick Kingsley

                     Beni   Devlin

              Vargas Grant Lowry 

                         Boyce 

 

 

Had the same thoughts about Beni timframe, and the  thought about pitch, rain and opted for Beni on bench.

[Pasquale for King]

58 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

He did well at Preston right enough. 🤣

 

59 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

That's why I said he and Savage should also go. 

They should but who’s going to hold they’re hand up and admit they ****ed up? McKinlay? He would need to ask his wife’s permission..

[Pasquale for King]

46 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

F that, naw, just naw; if anything he needs to go back to the youth team

 

Anyone for Webster Assistant?

 

I'm not entirely sure how much of a problem the players have with FM, but any other workplace this would likely be an issue

 

Hope that's wrong and not an issue, but I wouldn't be opposed to him going back to the youth team

He only helped out the B team when SN was away with Scotland, he was head of the Academy but folk have said hes a dinosaur that prefers tall players. Just another weegie big mouth that needs to go. 

[jbee647]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

He only helped out the B team when SN was away with Scotland, he was head of the Academy but folk have said hes a dinosaur that prefers tall players. Just another weegie big mouth that needs to go. 

I’d take that comment with a huge pinch of salt

 

99/100 it’s a comment attributed to parents whose kids aren’t good enough and not getting a game.

 

Macauley Tait and Bobby McLuckie are two of our brightest prospects, both are about 5’5

Edited September 25, 2023 by jbee647

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, jbee647 said:

I’d take that comment with a huge pinch of salt

 

99/100 it’s a comment attributed to parents whose kids aren’t good enough and not getting a game.

I would trust them over him, we’ve played a hell of a lot of long balls so far this season especially in Europe, with predictable results. A quick look at his career shows how his pals have got him jobs at Hamilton, Norwich, Preston and now Hearts. The very epitome of jobs for the boys.