Should Steven Naismith be sacked? ( merged )

[Ex member of the SaS]

1 hour ago, OTT said:

 

You got a link for that? I'd heard it was Arbroath. 

Yes he also look at Arbroath, TBF I think we were a fleeting glance rather than a serious consideration. ( just my take on it reading between the lines )

[Dazo]

32 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

I don't care about other clubs. As the third biggest club in the land, our record should be a lot better than it is. 

 

And I've made up that our cup record is atrocious? What would you describe it as? 

What yardstick are you using to judge then ? I might be wrong but out if the premier league we’ve won the Scottish cup the 3rd most and the league cup the 4h. Is that atrocious if we are the 3rd biggest ? 
 

we’d all love to win more cups but we have two teams that are miles above our league in every measurement you chose to use. 

[Boab]

9 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

not great I agree - but again, more often than not - those cup races also feature the ferrari and porsche.

It’s not great but got me thinking about how things could have looked trophy wise if we hadn’t messed up numerous Semis over the years. 
87’ St Mirren. Awful. Should have at least been in a final with Dundee Utd.

88’ Celtic. Last three minutes still haunt. Again could have been Dundee Utd in final.

92’ Airdrie. Scored a perfectly good goal in first Semi. Airdrie just lost to Celtic in final.

95’ Airdrie. Terrible. Airdrie losing by a goal in final.

96’ LC. Thought that was the day but Gazza, even pissed, was too good.

96’ SC. No comment.

2013 St Mirren. Snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

Then the two Celtic finals in recent years. Torture but close.

 

Great being a Jambo eh !

🫣

 

[Sooks]

15 minutes ago, Agentjambo said:

We should be aiming to pull away as 3rd biggest club in Scotland,making a bigger gap between us and the likes of Aberdeen and Hibs.Our aim should be to be good enough to beat every team in the league out with the old firm which should naturally take us closer to them.

Only way we are going to do that is by massively increasing our turnover and appointing a great head coach . We have got one of those factors bubbling away nicely , just need to sort the latter 

[Sir PH]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

So, what do you think will bridge the gap between us and the uglies?  Our record is history, it means nothing for what we do next but the odds are we still won't win anything in the next 5-10 years regardless of which manager is in charge.

 

The only factor that would influence it would be somebody catching both the uglies on an off day and knocking them out before Hampden.  The odds of those both happening are slim.

We've had multiple disasters against clubs that are a fraction of our size, though. We can't blame everything on the Old Firm. 

[Sinbad the Sailor]

12 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

so....is it OK to beat those team and not finish 3rd or 4th regularly? or both?

 

"a proper management team befitting hmfc"....

 

how come league wins, cup wins and proper management teams have been so scarce though - for decades?

 

there's been probably every variant of chairman / ownership model and ergo every variant of manager at HMFC.....all with more or less the same result...

 

this isn't me or anyone accepting mediocrity - I just can't see anything other than saudi type investment changing this.

 

We could have Lewis Hamilton driving our mondeo.....he still ain't gonna win that race.

 

He'd need the ferrari's to have two punctured tyres and engine failure and hope the Citroens, Fiats and Peugot's are running on supermarket diesel.   

Good analogy Jim. Even when we have had a good steer round the chicane the b'stard front tyre goes.

[Sir PH]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

What yardstick are you using to judge then ? I might be wrong but out if the premier league we’ve won the Scottish cup the 3rd most and the league cup the 4h. Is that atrocious if we are the 3rd biggest ? 
 

we’d all love to win more cups but we have two teams that are miles above our league in every measurement you chose to use. 

I'm 52 and we haven't won the League Cup in my lifetime, I think we've been to two finals. That's disgraceful. 

[HopeDiouf]

29 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

for those upset at us not wining the league or cups - it's akin to shouting at your local car mechanic why he (or she!) can't make your ford mondeo go as fast as ferrari and win you any races.

 

the mechanic runs a decent garage, turns a profit and he's even fitted your mondeo with better air intakes, and a fuel system upgrade - even go faster stripes and furry dice.

 

 

but it still won't go that much faster.

 

and you're throat just gets more and more sore  from all the shouting  

 

If they put someone who'd never fixed a car before in charge of the garage, and your car started going slower, you'd certainly be justified to ask questions.

[Bazzas right boot]

42 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

4th and 3rd and won nothing. 

 

Correct.

 

If we had score the 2 penalties you'd have been gutted.

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Bazzas right boot

[Sir PH]

3 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Correct.

 

If we had score the 2 penalties you'd have been gutted.

 

Why do you post so much nonsense? Do you not get tired? 

[Dazo]

4 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

I'm 52 and we haven't won the League Cup in my lifetime, I think we've been to two finals. That's disgraceful. 

So not a stick to beat the current board with then ? 
 

I agree we should win more cups but that isn’t new. Hopefully we get the on field stuff right to go along with the off field. The club have maybe got the priorities a little wrong but being well run will lead to more success imo, look at Celtic compared to Rangers. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

True we are the third biggest and have an income way above most if not all the clubs in the league out with the bigots. Most would agree that we can't compete with the bigots due to their financial clout, so it goes without saying the rest should struggle against us. Not saying we should win every game but we should be winning more than losing.

The recent derby shows how a rookie manager failed to secure a win from a very dominant position.

The players have also shown they have the ability to take on the best so why are we underperforming against the bottom clubs?

The bigots go into games with an arrogance that they will win ( the officials do help mind ) but we go into games worrying about how the opposition will set up and change how we play ( not always for the better ).

If rumours are true we had a number of candidates willing to become our manager yet we went for the soft option. For me this is the problem with the board, they don't have that ruthless streak that will be tough enough to say NO you are not good enough and give the job to the easy candidate.

Were we not fan owner ( no I don't want that to change ) but IF we had a one person owner they would be demanding results and the board would have to act. Due to our set up the board bumble on day after day refusing to take the hard choices.

[Sir PH]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

So not a stick to beat the current board with then ? 
 

I agree we should win more cups but that isn’t new. Hopefully we get the on field stuff right to go along with the off field. The club have maybe got the priorities a little wrong but being well run will lead to more success imo, look at Celtic compared to Rangers. 

I didn't mention the current board? My point is purely that we have massively under achieved in the cups, especially the League Cup. 

 

And because it isn't new, doesn't make it acceptable. That is such a Hearts way of thinking "we've always underachieved, so it's ok to carry on underachieving".

[kingantti1874]

2 hours ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

Yes I was born in 1958 and this period apart from the end of the Vlad era is the worst disconnect I have seen between the boardroom and the fans , it seems to me the board have got too cosy in their ivory tower, yes we are looking great off the park . People must remember we are  one the the greatest clubs with a history I for one am extremely proud of but this period of the last 5 years looks like the footballing side has been tossed aside,so that the many vanity projects can take centre stage. Yes we have a shiny new stand and a hotel but the team has been run like it doesn’t matter , lies about 7 thousand strong waiting lists sound like more bull coming from a board who told the fan’s interviews were taken for new management more bullshit when we know they use the next door down the corridor . Whoever sits behind that door gets the job whether they have the qualifications or not .

       I must say sitting in the new stand watching that crap we are having to put up with, I feel like screaming at the high and mighty who look like they don’t give a shit about the product on the park as long as the money keeps rolling in from the mugs they think they-must be doing everything right . This board need a severe wake up call , Shiny new hotels and hospitality are well and good but we are a football club first and foremost and this bullshit has to stop , Budges family have made an absolute fortune from our club what the feck do we get , we get a football team which if this carries on will be fighting at the bottom of the league and that in itself is a bloody disgrace 

 

 

but the footballing side stands up very well against most of the teams you’ve witnessed since 1958. We may not like it but that is the reality.  This season over 9 games not good enough and I expect t to recover it but the reality is 3rd /4th is about par if  slightly above par since you started watching. 

[kingantti1874]

2 hours ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

Another one who loves mediocrity wtf have we won in the last 5 years ?

in 44. We have won 3 trophies in my life time.  

you are 73, how many trophies have you watched us win since you were able to attend? 4 at most

why do you no expect us now to win trophies every 5 years ?  At a time where the financial and playing gap between us and the teams winning all the trophies has never been larger.  
 

and on the same token, you are criticising the club for focusing on off field projects designed to increase revenue which can be re invested into the team.

none of your points make any sense. As I said earlier.  We have a significant number who seem unable to understand the context behind of where hearts(and all other Scottish clubs)  now are in the grand scheme of things.

 

[kingantti1874]

9 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

I didn't mention the current board? My point is purely that we have massively under achieved in the cups, especially the League Cup. 

 

And because it isn't new, doesn't make it acceptable. That is such a Hearts way of thinking "we've always underachieved, so it's ok to carry on underachieving".

Had we had competent people ownership at a time when we could compete financially we’d have won more.

 

we now have competent ownership at a time when it is literally impossible to compete in any sort of sustained way.
 

the only thing which will make us competitive is another £30million a season ploughed into the first team.  And even then we’d be rank outsiders becuase it’s still half of what rangers and Celtic are spending. 
 

changing the board, who are trying to come up with ways to close that financial gap isn’t the answer unless there is a secret Saudi waiting in the wings.

 

 

 

[Sir PH]

2 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Had we had competent people ownership at a time when we could compete financially we’d have won more.

 

we now have competent ownership at a time when it is literally impossible to compete in any sort of sustained way.
 

the only thing which will make us competitive is another £30million a season ploughed into the first team.  And even then we’d be rank outsiders becuase it’s still half of what rangers and Celtic are spending. 
 

changing the board, who are trying to come up with ways to close that financial gap isn’t the answer unless there is a secret Saudi waiting in the wings.

 

 

 

I didn't say changing the board was the answer, or even mention the board. My point is purely a footballing one, regarding our pathetic cup record. 

[HopeDiouf]

5 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Had we had competent people ownership at a time when we could compete financially we’d have won more.

 

we now have competent ownership at a time when it is literally impossible to compete in any sort of sustained way.
 

the only thing which will make us competitive is another £30million a season ploughed into the first team.  And even then we’d be rank outsiders becuase it’s still half of what rangers and Celtic are spending. 
 

changing the board, who are trying to come up with ways to close that financial gap isn’t the answer unless there is a secret Saudi waiting in the wings.

 

 

 

By same measure, we shouldn't be regularly getting beat by teams who's budget ain't much more than what FOH donates.

[kingantti1874]

18 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

True we are the third biggest and have an income way above most if not all the clubs in the league out with the bigots. Most would agree that we can't compete with the bigots due to their financial clout, so it goes without saying the rest should struggle against us. Not saying we should win every game but we should be winning more than losing.

The recent derby shows how a rookie manager failed to secure a win from a very dominant position.

The players have also shown they have the ability to take on the best so why are we underperforming against the bottom clubs?

The bigots go into games with an arrogance that they will win ( the officials do help mind ) but we go into games worrying about how the opposition will set up and change how we play ( not always for the better ).

If rumours are true we had a number of candidates willing to become our manager yet we went for the soft option. For me this is the problem with the board, they don't have that ruthless streak that will be tough enough to say NO you are not good enough and give the job to the easy candidate.

Were we not fan owner ( no I don't want that to change ) but IF we had a one person owner they would be demanding results and the board would have to act. Due to our set up the board bumble on day after day refusing to take the hard choices.

Hearts wage bill is at best marginally better than hibs or Aberdeen, if bigger at all. Marginal enough that any sort of injuries can wipe out any perceived advantage as it maybe equates to a player or 2 of similar quality . 
 

Rangers and Celtic spend c £50 million a season more that’s 50 employees of 20k per week or 25 employees of 50k per week or some other variable of that magnitude 

 

an absolutely ridiculous comparison 

[Boab]

10 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Had we had competent people ownership at a time when we could compete financially we’d have won more.

 

we now have competent ownership at a time when it is literally impossible to compete in any sort of sustained way.
 

the only thing which will make us competitive is another £30million a season ploughed into the first team.  And even then we’d be rank outsiders becuase it’s still half of what rangers and Celtic are spending. 
 

changing the board, who are trying to come up with ways to close that financial gap isn’t the answer unless there is a secret Saudi waiting in the wings.

 

 

 

First paragraph ?

I would say Wallace Mercer was pretty competent, a lot more than competent actually, and we won hee haw when he was at the helm. 
That’s not a criticism of him, his contribution to Hearts will never be forgotten, but it contradicts your first paragraph completely.

[Ex member of the SaS]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

Hearts wage bill is at best marginally better than hibs or Aberdeen, if bigger at all. Marginal enough that any sort of injuries can wipe out any perceived advantage as it maybe equates to a player or 2 of similar quality . 
 

Rangers and Celtic spend c £50 million a season more that’s 50 employees of 20k per week or 25 employees of 50k per week or some other variable of that magnitude 

 

an absolutely ridiculous comparison 

You missed the point, I was not comparing us to them, simply their attitude to approaching games and the fact that we claim we can't compete with their financial clout so how can the rest compete with us? Ok our spending on players maybe only slightly better that the rest, but why is that? Why are we not using our income to better effect?

For me the simple answer is the board are using the money on off field projects and won't pay for a proper manager and back him when buying players. We are a football club not an hotel chain.

[leginten]

6 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Had we had competent people ownership at a time when we could compete financially we’d have won more.

 

we now have competent ownership at a time when it is literally impossible to compete in any sort of sustained way.
 

the only thing which will make us competitive is another £30million a season ploughed into the first team.  And even then we’d be rank outsiders becuase it’s still half of what rangers and Celtic are spending. 
 

changing the board, who are trying to come up with ways to close that financial gap isn’t the answer unless there is a secret Saudi waiting in the wings.

 

 

 

I think you need to distinguish between competing with Rangers and Celtic - something, by the way, which has been alluded to as a target over an unspecified time range by people in positions of responsibility at the club but is clearly out of reach at the moment - and striving to put a bit of distance between ourselves and the rest so that whatever opportunities come up for European football (and they may be meagre), we have first dibs on them over Aberdeen and Hibs.

 

The latter has to be our priority, and given that we are now in a really good financial position relative to any other time since I’ve been following us, it shouldn’t be beyond us. But it needs hard work, good decisions and a bit of ruthlessness. 
 

You’re a bit down, I get it. But we mustn’t slip into this “accept your lot” mentality. The fact that we’ve always underachieved doesn’t mean it’s right or acceptable for us to continue doing so, and, for all that I’m critical of them, I’m pretty sure nobody on the board is thinking that way. (And if they are, they need to be out.)

[kingantti1874]

3 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

You missed the point, I was not comparing us to them, simply their attitude to approaching games and the fact that we claim we can't compete with their financial clout so how can the rest compete with us? Ok our spending on players maybe only slightly better that the rest, but why is that? Why are we not using our income to better effect?

For me the simple answer is the board are using the money on off field projects and won't pay for a proper manager and back him when buying players. We are a football club not an hotel chain.

becuae we have to grow the business and the income in a sustainable way tro try and get closer to the old firm and further from the rest. 
 

invest £2m in one season to have an extra million a season for the next 50 years.

 

it is without doubt the correct strategy and the only sustainable way forward. 

 

 

[kingantti1874]

2 minutes ago, leginten said:

I think you need to distinguish between competing with Rangers and Celtic - something, by the way, which has been alluded to as a target over an unspecified time range by people in positions of responsibility at the club but is clearly out of reach at the moment - and striving to put a bit of distance between ourselves and the rest so that whatever opportunities come up for European football (and they may be meagre), we have first dibs on them over Aberdeen and Hibs.

 

The latter has to be our priority, and given that we are now in a really good financial position relative to any other time since I’ve been following us, it shouldn’t be beyond us. But it needs hard work, good decisions and a bit of ruthlessness. 
 

You’re a bit down, I get it. But we mustn’t slip into this “accept your lot” mentality. The fact that we’ve always underachieved doesn’t mean it’s right or acceptable for us to continue doing so, and, for all that I’m critical of them, I’m pretty sure nobody on the board is thinking that way. (And if they are, they need to be out.)

dont disgaree with any of this. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

becuae we have to grow the business and the income in a sustainable way tro try and get closer to the old firm and further from the rest. 
 

invest £2m in one season to have an extra million a season for the next 50 years.

 

it is without doubt the correct strategy and the only sustainable way forward. 

 

 

Our business is football. By winning games and gaining third and all that brings, increases income. No other team in the league has fans donating huge sums every month. Winning games means TV , league and Euro cash. The hotel business is not a huge income stream.

[kingantti1874]

8 minutes ago, Boab said:

First paragraph ?

I would say Wallace Mercer was pretty competent, a lot more than competent actually, and we won hee haw when he was at the helm. 
That’s not a criticism of him, his contribution to Hearts will never be forgotten, but it contradicts your first paragraph completely.

should have added with a bit of luck.  Wallace was really the only one we could say was competent. Like the current crew he lifted hearts from the doldrums and with more luck and less lying down in the west would have achieved something glorious. Still annoys me that we didn’t achieve in that period when the door was open

[Sir PH]

16 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Hearts wage bill is at best marginally better than hibs or Aberdeen, if bigger at all. Marginal enough that any sort of injuries can wipe out any perceived advantage as it maybe equates to a player or 2 of similar quality . 
 

Rangers and Celtic spend c £50 million a season more that’s 50 employees of 20k per week or 25 employees of 50k per week or some other variable of that magnitude 

 

an absolutely ridiculous comparison 

So why do we continually get beat by clubs with a fraction of our budget? 

[kingantti1874]

6 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Our business is football. By winning games and gaining third and all that brings, increases income. No other team in the league has fans donating huge sums every month. Winning games means TV , league and Euro cash. The hotel business is not a huge income stream.

Other clubs have wealthy owners who donate more than FOH.  (Dave Cormack) and other have board who are borrowing heavily in order to keep Up (Hibs) 

 

if we make 750k a season from the hotel, that’s could represent a 10% increase in our playing budget, and is about 50% of what FOH contribute annually.   
 

it’s massive. We could get 2 * 8k per week players for that every season which increases our chances of winning games and achieving. 
 

sorry.  Folk are angry but throwing mud in the wrong direction. 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by kingantti1874

[Boab]

3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

should have added with a bit of luck.  Wallace was really the only one we could say was competent. Like the current crew he lifted hearts from the doldrums and with more luck and less lying down in the west would have achieved something glorious. Still annoys me that we didn’t achieve in that period when the door was open

Well, exactly why I brought that first paragraph up. The old firm were a shambles then and we didn’t capitalise, even when sheep started to drop off.

Now ? No chance !

[kingantti1874]

8 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

So why do we continually get beat by clubs with a fraction of our budget? 

Are Aberdeen and hibs on a fraction of our budget?   If they are that fraction is 9/10ths at best and in Aberdeen case is suspect their overall wage bill is higher this season. 
 

let’s say average in the league is £5m ours is £10m along side Aberdeen and Hibs and the old form are bother at about £60m

 

Ours is a marginal advantage.  Theirs is not a marginal advantage.  
 

Our advantage is small enough that it can be disrupted by form, injuries, coaches, fixtures  (who of course are part of that wage bill) 
 

the Glasgow  advantage is big enough that none of those things have a material influence.  Every single person they have in their employ at every level of the club is better than ours. Coaching, playing, fitness, analysis, recovery.  Every single person at a higher level.

all of this said, we do beat these other teams more often that not don’t we.  Otherwise we wouldn’t be finishing 3rd /4th which is exactly where we are 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by kingantti1874

[HopeDiouf]

5 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Are Aberdeen and hibs on a fraction of our budget?   If they are that fraction is 9/10ths at best and in Aberdeen case is suspect their overall wage bill is higher this season. 
 

let’s say average in the league is £5m ours is £10m along side Aberdeen and Hibs and the old form are bother at about £60m

 

Ours is a marginal advantage.  Theirs is not a marginal advantage.  
 

Our advantage is small enough that it can be disrupted by form, injuries, coaches, fixtures  (who of course are part of that wage bill) 
 

the Glasgow  advantage is big enough that none of those things have a material influence.  Every single person they have in their employ at every level of the club is better than ours. Coaching, playing, fitness, analysis, recovery.  Every single person at a higher level.

all of this said, we do beat these other teams more often that not don’t we.  Otherwise we wouldn’t be finishing 3rd /4th which is exactly where we are 

 

Now do Motherwell,st mirren and Dundee.

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, HopeDiouf said:

Now do Motherwell,st mirren and Dundee.

done it by saying average £5m across the rest of the league. Dont think that’ll be too far off, some teams a bit more and some a bit less.  

 

Our extra gets us “marginally” better players and  “marginally” better squad all of which can be neutralised by poor coaching, injuries as I’ve said. Of our £10m wage bill half of it has been sat in the treatment room for months 

no where near a big enough gap to guarantee anything. 
 

this season hasn’t been good enough, zero debate but the expectation levels among our support aren’t justified by facts 

 

[Dazo]

52 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

I didn't mention the current board? My point is purely that we have massively under achieved in the cups, especially the League Cup. 

 

And because it isn't new, doesn't make it acceptable. That is such a Hearts way of thinking "we've always underachieved, so it's ok to carry on underachieving".

Applogies I’ve picked you up wrong as your posts on this thread and the board thread suggest you are blaming them. 
 

Again you’re saying we are underachieving, based on what ? If we are the 3rd best club with roughly the 3rd best record where is the underachieving ? We seem to be punching at our weight. It sounds to me like you can’t accept that and expect that we overachieve. That’s fine but stop putting the club down for the level they are at. 

[NextGenerationJambo]

1 hour ago, Sir PH said:

I didn't mention the current board? My point is purely that we have massively under achieved in the cups, especially the League Cup. 

 

And because it isn't new, doesn't make it acceptable. That is such a Hearts way of thinking "we've always underachieved, so it's ok to carry on underachieving".

"To be normal, is the ultimate aim of the unsuccessful." 

 

I sincerely hope our board operate with less nihilism than our fan base. Although, current affairs would suggest that is not the case. 

 

We have become so accepting of mediocrity and - for lack of a better word - failure, that we have labelled plausible aims as impossible. Improbable? Definitely. Difficult? Absolutely. Impossible? Not a chance. 

 

Until we change this mindset from the top down, then our reality will continue to be one riddled with disappointment. Not for those who embrace the comfort blanket of unexceptionalism, however. It's a coping mechanism which allows them to live comfortably, not striving for anything other than ordinary. 

[OTT]

49 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Other clubs have wealthy owners who donate more than FOH.  (Dave Cormack) and other have board who are borrowing heavily in order to keep Up (Hibs) 

 

if we make 750k a season from the hotel, that’s could represent a 10% increase in our playing budget, and is about 50% of what FOH contribute annually.   
 

it’s massive. We could get 2 * 8k per week players for that every season which increases our chances of winning games and achieving. 
 

sorry.  Folk are angry but throwing mud in the wrong direction. 

 

 

Agree - building up our non-football related activities is essential and I would like to see some sort of breakdown of this - its probably in the annual accounts, but I suppose won't be hugely impressive until the hotel is added to the roster. 

 

FWIW, these are all things Hibs and Aberdeen don't have. IIRC, Aberdeen do very well on the hospitality front, but thats largely just match day right? HIbs, I don't think have invested much in the way we have. Although I do remember Petrie and Farmer getting slated for the spending when they were doing their main stand, so I assume the function suites they have are decent, if now a bit dated. 

 

Point is, Aberdeen will soon need to make a decision on their stadium which will hurt their spending power as they pay it off, and Hibs are probably as strong as they're likely to be without some radical changes. We still have the hotel to come, and hopefully in the near future can begin to seriously look at further stadium expansion. It bothers me that the Dick Donald stand behind the goals at Pittodrie seats more than the Wheatfield (over 6k vs just under 6k) if we could get a properly expanded Wheatfield or Gorgie stand, we'd be laughing. 

[Dazo]

6 minutes ago, NextGenerationJambo said:

"To be normal, is the ultimate aim of the unsuccessful." 

 

I sincerely hope our board operate with less nihilism than our fan base. Although, current affairs would suggest that is not the case. 

 

We have become so accepting of mediocrity and - for lack of a better word - failure, that we have labelled plausible aims as impossible. Improbable? Definitely. Difficult? Absolutely. Impossible? Not a chance. 

 

Until we change this mindset from the top down, then our reality will continue to be one riddled with disappointment. Not for those who embrace the comfort blanket of unexceptionalism, however. It's a coping mechanism which allows them to live comfortably, not striving for anything other than ordinary. 

What a load of shite. 😂 

 

Recognising the level we are currently at or the speed, limitations and capabilities of growth for the club doesn’t mean you accept failure or mediocrity. Recognising success isn’t instant and while we would all rather the football side kept up with the off field growth it doesn’t mean you are not ambitious. We all(apparently) want hearts to better on the park, tears and snotters don’t mean you want it any more than anyone else. 

Loving how the moaning faced ***** are trying to position themselves as some sort of forward thinking pioneers and everyone else is just a mug who accepts failure. 
 

 

[Sir PH]

59 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Are Aberdeen and hibs on a fraction of our budget?   If they are that fraction is 9/10ths at best and in Aberdeen case is suspect their overall wage bill is higher this season. 
 

let’s say average in the league is £5m ours is £10m along side Aberdeen and Hibs and the old form are bother at about £60m

 

Ours is a marginal advantage.  Theirs is not a marginal advantage.  
 

Our advantage is small enough that it can be disrupted by form, injuries, coaches, fixtures  (who of course are part of that wage bill) 
 

the Glasgow  advantage is big enough that none of those things have a material influence.  Every single person they have in their employ at every level of the club is better than ours. Coaching, playing, fitness, analysis, recovery.  Every single person at a higher level.

all of this said, we do beat these other teams more often that not don’t we.  Otherwise we wouldn’t be finishing 3rd /4th which is exactly where we are 

 

No, they're not. But the likes of Dundee, St Johnstone, Motherwell, Kilmarnock etc etc are. And they regularly draw with, or beat, Hearts. 

[Sir PH]

50 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Applogies I’ve picked you up wrong as your posts on this thread and the board thread suggest you are blaming them. 
 

Again you’re saying we are underachieving, based on what ? If we are the 3rd best club with roughly the 3rd best record where is the underachieving ? We seem to be punching at our weight. It sounds to me like you can’t accept that and expect that we overachieve. That’s fine but stop putting the club down for the level they are at. 

Based on 3 trophies in 60 years, and an absolutely horrendous League Cup record. There's not really much more I can say.

[gordon simpson]

2 hours ago, Sooks said:

Some of them are maybe too young to remember Mad Eddie , The Triumvirate of Terror , Rix , McGlynn and Locke ………. Horrible results and performances AND the club teetering on the brink of financial ruin 

some on here would have us back to brink if they had their way 

[Luckies1874]

1 hour ago, leginten said:

I think you need to distinguish between competing with Rangers and Celtic - something, by the way, which has been alluded to as a target over an unspecified time range by people in positions of responsibility at the club but is clearly out of reach at the moment - and striving to put a bit of distance between ourselves and the rest so that whatever opportunities come up for European football (and they may be meagre), we have first dibs on them over Aberdeen and Hibs.

 

The latter has to be our priority, and given that we are now in a really good financial position relative to any other time since I’ve been following us, it shouldn’t be beyond us. But it needs hard work, good decisions and a bit of ruthlessness. 
 

You’re a bit down, I get it. But we mustn’t slip into this “accept your lot” mentality. The fact that we’ve always underachieved doesn’t mean it’s right or acceptable for us to continue doing so, and, for all that I’m critical of them, I’m pretty sure nobody on the board is thinking that way. (And if they are, they need to be out.)

 

 

Brilliant post.

 

👏👏👏

[Nerja Jambo]

2 hours ago, Sir PH said:

I'm 52 and we haven't won the League Cup in my lifetime, I think we've been to two finals. That's disgraceful. 

I'm 77 and can recall the late 50's early 60's and going to the LC final was an almost annual event. Long gone are those days.

[Luckies1874]

54 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

done it by saying average £5m across the rest of the league. Dont think that’ll be too far off, some teams a bit more and some a bit less.  

 

Our extra gets us “marginally” better players and  “marginally” better squad all of which can be neutralised by poor coaching, injuries as I’ve said. Of our £10m wage bill half of it has been sat in the treatment room for months 

no where near a big enough gap to guarantee anything. 
 

this season hasn’t been good enough, zero debate but the expectation levels among our support aren’t justified by facts 

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that our next set of figures will show revenue that is more than Kilie, Motherwell and St Mirren put together. It may not be the gap in finances between us and the Old Firm but there is now way that St Mirren for instance should be matching our points total over the last 47 league games ( I think it's 1pt less). That is absolutely scandalous and shows that we are neither getting value for money or performing to a level that should be expected. If there is an acceptance that the Old Firm are going to be 30+ pts our whatever ahead of us there should equally be an acknowledgement that we should be leaving the likes of those 3 clubs in our wake even if it is more difficult to do the same with Hibernian and Aberdeen. 

[Luckies1874]

12 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Loving how the moaning faced ***** are trying to position themselves as some sort of forward thinking pioneers and everyone else is just a mug who accepts failure. 
 

 

 

Don't need to be a "forward thinking pioneer" to know that appointing Naismith was going to be an unmitigated disaster especially when they then had the farcical managerial setup over a couple of months. And if pointing that out means you are tagged a moaning faced ***** then so be it. If you continue to support the abysmal record the board has when it comes to footballing decisions then you are simply complicit in the self harm the club now has a lengthy laundry list of inflicting on us. 

[Thomaso]

8 hours ago, Sir PH said:

It's an opinion. Not going to a game in your own stadium because of some songs is as weak as water. But weakness runs right through our club, so it's no real surprise. 

Do you take your kids to games?

[Thomaso]

6 hours ago, OTT said:

I don’t know how achievable it is, but I’d like a mishmash of the two. Jointly (majority) fan owned/ externally owned. 
 

I think replacing Budge is going to be difficult, and it’s hard to see someone getting involved without a stake in the business. 
 

Maybe I’m wrong, but having some skin in the game seems the correct way to go. 

No wealthy entrepreneur is going to throw in big money without getting the controlling interest.

[Sooks]

26 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Loving how the moaning faced ***** are trying to position themselves as some sort of forward thinking pioneers and everyone else is just a mug who accepts failure. 

 

 

Bizarre isnt it . Like somehow improvement and success are achieved by soaking your knickers and screaming sack the board every time a manager does a shit job . Very forward thinking 

 

It is not being ambitious , it is being an emotionally and rationally crippled manbaby 

[Thomaso]

26 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

Based on 3 trophies in 60 years, and an absolutely horrendous League Cup record. There's not really much more I can say.

I look on it as 3 big cup wins in in 25 years. 😉

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, Sir PH said:

I'm 52 and we haven't won the League Cup in my lifetime, I think we've been to two finals. That's disgraceful. 

It is. Lucking enough to have seen 3 SC wins in my time but before I pop my clogs I’m desperate to see us win the LC!

I don’t go with the “Mickey mouse cup” crap! This cup is woven into the history of our Club and should be respected.

[OTT]

7 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

No wealthy entrepreneur is going to throw in big money without getting the controlling interest.

 

Probably right, but worth a try - there might be some sort of deal to be struck that curtails their power for the club to take on debt and the FOH act as some sort of preferred bidder should he want to sell - for someone smarter than me to figure out  

 

I don't think people get involved in Scottish football to make money. 

[kingantti1874]

41 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

No, they're not. But the likes of Dundee, St Johnstone, Motherwell, Kilmarnock etc etc are. And they regularly draw with, or beat, Hearts. 

I’ve answered it multiple times.