***Official Heart of Midlothian v PAOK Match Thread***

[OTT]

10 minutes ago, gregzy2k7 said:

4-1 to PAOK and that's being generous.

 

We will do our usual terrible start and find ourselves 1-0 down within the first 10 mins, will get back level around 31 mins but it will all be in vain as we concede again a min later, they will then pick us off in the second half with a couple more goals.

 

Have a safe trip to all those going, enjoy your beers and sun as the football is gonna be painful to watch.

 

 

Exactly all the reasons I'm not looking forward to watching it. 

[Gordon_1874]

This side ain't as good as Fiorentina or Basaksehir. I think if we go there and stand off we're in for a long night. Let them have the ball in their own half and press them once they get into ours. Wind them up with niggly fouls, slow the game down and don't give the ref a decision to make on red cards or penalties. Stranger things have happened......

[Cruyff]

Need a Bordeaux/Braga performance. 

[No Idle Talk]

I think we'll get our arses felt here. 3-0 PAOK. ☹️

[Uncle Buck]

                        Clark

    Atkinson Kent Sibbick Kingsley

                 Devlin Cochrane

             Vargas Boyce Oda

                   Shankland

 

I’d rather play Kingsley centre half and Cochrane left back, but genuinely struggling to think of an available player that I would trust next to Devlin. I think we’ll go out but not without a fight.

[OTT]

Just now, Uncle Buck said:

                        Clark

    Atkinson Kent Sibbick Kingsley

                 Devlin Cochrane

             Vargas Boyce Oda

                   Shankland

 

I’d rather play Kingsley centre half and Cochrane left back, but genuinely struggling to think of an available player that I would trust next to Devlin. I think we’ll go out but not without a fight.

 

We're really up shit creek with our lack of midfield options. Cochrane in there isn't the answer. But as we've found out, neither is Sibbick. Halliday the next body to throw into the "Hearts cannae find a midfielder meatgrinder" ?  

 

We need to get another midfielder in before the window closes. Haring looks like he's going to just keep picking up niggly wee injuries constantly, and without him our lack of depth and meaningful options are really exposed. 

 

 

[Chong]

Bin the Halliday chat lids.

Hes nowhere near starting this game. He's got what 14 minutes against Partick under his belt? 

I did not mind Halliday playing wide when we've needed him there in the past and he seems a decent guy but we're more than covered in his best position now and he is probably weighing up how much he wants to play football this season as he is quite far out the picture here, it's clear. He's not a centre mid and never has been. He holds no attribute that we have needed all season in the middle of the park and that's why he has splinters in his arse while we bumble through games literally hoping random selections work. 

If he is in there on Thursday then it would only smack of desperation, and he would be chucked under a bus. 

 

I'd prefer a more solid 3 in the middle of the park on Thursday but it's hard when we have basically only Devlin to choose from. Attack may be our best bet given the personnel and a direct approach with emphasis on winning the second balls may be old fashioned but possibly more chance of success than the slow build up with an inept skillset. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Chong
Games not tomorrow

[Captain Canada]

I can't see past a 3-0 defeat, but I hope I'm way off the mark and we can do something incredible. 

 

We don't have a good enough midfield. They weren't brilliant in the first leg, but I think they'll be much better at home. 

[OTT]

2 minutes ago, Chong said:

Bin the Halliday chat lids.

Hes nowhere near starting this game. He's got what 14 minutes against Partick under his belt? 

I did not mind Halliday playing wide when we've needed him there in the past and he seems a decent guy but we're more than covered in his best position now and he is probably weighing up how much he wants to play football this season as he is quite far out the picture here, it's clear. He's not a centre mid and never has been. He holds no attribute that we have needed all season in the middle of the park and that's why he has splinters in his arse while we bumble through games literally hoping random selections work. 

If he is in there tomorrow then it would only smack of desperation, and he would be chucked under a bus. 

 

I'd prefer a more solid 3 in the middle of the park on Thursday but it's hard when we have basically only Devlin to choose from. Attack may be our best bet given the personnel and a direct approach with emphasis on winning the second balls may be old fashioned but possibly more chance of success than the slow build up with an inept skillset. 

 

Its not that anyone is even attempting to say that Halliday is the answer - because if he's the answer **** the question  

 

Its the complete lack of viable options. Naisy/McAvoy have tried Cochrane - it didn't work, tried Sibbick - it didn't work, tried Denholm - it didn't work. Haring is injured, Beni is injured, Hof is somehow already injured, some einstein decided to not even name Grant... We literally don't have any other options. Halliday or more of Cochranes poor positioning, Denholms inexperience or Sibbick struggling. Halliday has experience and is a midfielder. Its not great, we're in all likelihood out anyway, so its the only option available. 

 

I would love for our recruitment team to have got the summer window right, but clearly Hof isn't ready ( 🙄) and we have no other options. 

 

Massive fan of the complete lack of planning having sold any hope of a result up the river. 

[No Idle Talk]

20 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

We're really up shit creek with our lack of midfield options. Cochrane in there isn't the answer. But as we've found out, neither is Sibbick. Halliday the next body to throw into the "Hearts cannae find a midfielder meatgrinder" ?  

 

We need to get another midfielder in before the window closes. Haring looks like he's going to just keep picking up niggly wee injuries constantly, and without him our lack of depth and meaningful options are really exposed. 

 

 

 

Halliday and Devlin are not a good pairing. 

 

I'd give Sibbick another go in there. Yeah he wasn't great on Sunday but he's been playing in defence for the past year and has only had 135 minutes playing in midfield. It will take him a wee while to get up to speed with the change. 

 

If it's not Sibbick I guess it will need to be Denholm. 

 

I want Cochrane back out on the left where he can dovetail with Stephen Kingsley. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by No Idle Talk

[OTT]

1 minute ago, No Idle Talk said:

 

Halliday and Devlin are not a good pairing. 

 

I'd give Sibbick another go in there. Yeah he wasn't great on Sunday but he's been playing in defence for the past year and has only had 135 minutes playing in midfield. It will take him a wee while to get up to speed with the change. 

 

If it's not Sibbick I guess it will need to be Denholm. 

 

I want Cochrane back out on the left where he can dovetail with Stephen Kingsley. 

 

I'd rather have Sibbick in defence. Appreciate needs must and all of that, but I cannot put into words how much I want Rowles to get to ****. A player that truly offers nothing to his teammates. 

 

For us to be in this situation in August is frankly farcical and bitterly disappointing considering the amount of money paid to the management staff to oversee our football department. 

 

Anyway, back onto the team/game. In my eyes, the opportunity to win the tie was in the first leg. If nothing else, we needed to make sure PAOK didn't have anymore of an advantage on us going into the 2nd leg, and we've handed them a goals lead on top of no midfielders to speak of. I have zero confidence in us getting a result, and so, who we play there really doesn't matter. We don't have the options, but in a stadium nicknamed "the black hell", I'd back Halliday over Denholm purely because of experience to handle the occasion better. 

 

Neither are good options, neither make me even the slightest bit confident. But we are where we are. 

 

In previous years when we've had to qualify for Europe we've drawn Liverpool and Spurs, Aberdeen have drawn Burnley, Real Sociedad & Sporting CP, Hibs have drawn Aston Villa,St Johnstone have drawn Galatasaray. By all accounts, we got a very decent draw, and one if we had a midfield we could have won. The opportunity to play in Europe isn't' guaranteed, and we've really not taken this by the horns at all.  I'm really frustrated that we've ****ed this up so badly. Devlin & Haring wasn't a brilliant midfield last season, and I don't know who thought Beni who had been out for 18 months would be able to come right back in like nothing had happened. Talk about making a rod for your own back. 

 

[No Idle Talk]

46 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I'd rather have Sibbick in defence. Appreciate needs must and all of that, but I cannot put into words how much I want Rowles to get to ****. A player that truly offers nothing to his teammates. 

 

For us to be in this situation in August is frankly farcical and bitterly disappointing considering the amount of money paid to the management staff to oversee our football department. 

 

Anyway, back onto the team/game. In my eyes, the opportunity to win the tie was in the first leg. If nothing else, we needed to make sure PAOK didn't have anymore of an advantage on us going into the 2nd leg, and we've handed them a goals lead on top of no midfielders to speak of. I have zero confidence in us getting a result, and so, who we play there really doesn't matter. We don't have the options, but in a stadium nicknamed "the black hell", I'd back Halliday over Denholm purely because of experience to handle the occasion better. 

 

Neither are good options, neither make me even the slightest bit confident. But we are where we are. 

 

In previous years when we've had to qualify for Europe we've drawn Liverpool and Spurs, Aberdeen have drawn Burnley, Real Sociedad & Sporting CP, Hibs have drawn Aston Villa,St Johnstone have drawn Galatasaray. By all accounts, we got a very decent draw, and one if we had a midfield we could have won. The opportunity to play in Europe isn't' guaranteed, and we've really not taken this by the horns at all.  I'm really frustrated that we've ****ed this up so badly. Devlin & Haring wasn't a brilliant midfield last season, and I don't know who thought Beni who had been out for 18 months would be able to come right back in like nothing had happened. Talk about making a rod for your own back. 

 

 

I'm with you on Rowles. I also want him out of the team. He is an accident waiting to happen every time he takes the field at the moment.

 

It tells you how the coaching team feel about the midfield options available to them when you see Aidan Denholm thrown in for the second leg against Rosenborg and Alex Cochrane playing out of position in central midfield in the first leg against PAOK. They are desperately scrambling about trying to find a combination that works in midfield. To be in that situation just one month into a new season is negligent. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by No Idle Talk

[Sooks]

A lot of fans tossing in the towel . Not me , I think we will edge the game and go through

 

 

[OTT]

5 minutes ago, No Idle Talk said:

 

I'm with you on Rowles. I also want him out of the team. He is an accident waiting to happen every time he takes the field at the moment.

 

It tells you how the coaching team feel about the midfield options available to them when you see Aidan Denholm thrown in for the second leg against Rosenborg and Alex Cochrane playing out of position in central midfield in the first leg against PAOK. They are desperately scrambling about trying to find a combination that works in midfield. To be in that situation just one month into a new season is negligent. 

 

Yep. I've pointed this out on other threads, so apologies for repeating myself, but he doesn't have anything he excels at, he's not a very good defender, he's not very good at distributing the ball and he refuses to drive forward with the ball. Kent and Halkett you can point to their defensive nous easily enough, and Sibbick is a solid ball player. Rowles has no defining attribute and I know we can do a lot better - Stuart Findlay at Killie would have been an excellent option. If Killie could have bought him, they would have. So with him being there on loan, Oxford were interested in bids. Fairly confident we could have bought him outright. 

 

On our midfield, again at the risk of repeating myself, Jeando Fuchs is available from Peterborough right now. He's on their transfer list and they want to hear offers. Its too late I believe to make a difference in this game, but he's 25, into the last year of his contract and has shown at Dundee Utd he can easily manage at this level and is much more dynamic than both Devlin and Haring (can pass forwards, has energy, can tackle) - if anything closer to what Beni brings to the table. Contract up at the end of this season, offer them what we paid for Kio and see if they bite. Its 100% a deal worth doing. 

 

I moaned like **** about the Kio transfer because we paid such a hefty fee for a player we knew nothing about - obviously we scouted him, but in terms of how he would do in Scottish football it was a complete unknown, flip side was Shanks who we already knew about because he had experience of Scottish football. Hof hasn't any experience of this league and is unsurprisingly struggling, likewise Grant. Fuchs does, and would very clearly improve us. Its a deal that looks to be within our reach and would have an immediate positive impact on our team. 

 

Not finishing 3rd this season isn't an option, and if it cannot be delivered, then Savage, Naisy & McAvoy should all be for the high jump. The resources are there and if they can't utilise them correctly, then its time to make a change. Failure to finish 3rd should be viewed by the board as effectively handing £4m to our rivals (likely Aberdeen) its not something we can afford to be doing. The compound effect of finishing 3rd successively is huge, and we need it to be us to be getting that money otherwise Aberdeen can, and will pull ahead. 

[Sooks]

Rowles over Sibbick for me 

[OTT]

1 minute ago, Sooks said:

Rowles over Sibbick for me 

 

[Sooks]

Just now, OTT said:

 

I think he tracks runners and closes down better

[GinRummy]

4 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Rowles over Sibbick for me

 

edit. You’ve already answered. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by GinRummy

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

Why

See above . Sibbick is better at breaking with the ball or chasing some one who has broken through , but Rowles tracks runners and better positionally . He also comes out and closes down his man better . All about opinions though I suppose 

[Gordon_1874]

7 minutes ago, Sooks said:

A lot of fans tossing in the towel . Not me , I think we will edge the game and go through

 

 

This 👏 anything is possible on any given day. We're 90 minutes away from European group stage football and the millions that come with it. It definitely will not be easy but with a bit of luck you never know.

[OTT]

Just now, Sooks said:

I think he tracks runners and closes down better

 

Respect your point of view, I think he's an awful footballer though and personally cannot wait to be shot of him. He brings nothing to the table that I can see. Halks was clearly carrying him as can be evidenced with how soft as shite our defence was when he had to stand on his own two feet, and again Kent now appears to be carrying him also. 

 

If Rowles offered anything on the ball, believe me I'd not be hating on him this much but he doesn't. His passes are typically 6 yarders along the line usually back the way it came (failing to advance play meaning we struggle to successfully play it out from the back). He doesn't have the vision to spot runners and play the likes of McKay, Oda or Vargas through (Which Sibbick has done for Smiths goal against Aberdeen). He can't run with the ball, Sibbick can, his goal against Hibs at Easter Road for example and he's generally a weak defender - see any game where he's been up against a striker that gets in his face, be that Curtis Main or Stevie May  

 

If he could read play, he wouldn't have headered the ball back into danger or scythed down Živković for the penalty, likewise he wouldn't constantly be booked for having to pull back attackers that have got away from him (get this isn't your point, but I've heard his reading of play is meant to be one of his strengths lmao). 

[Sooks]

11 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Respect your point of view, I think he's an awful footballer though and personally cannot wait to be shot of him. He brings nothing to the table that I can see. Halks was clearly carrying him as can be evidenced with how soft as shite our defence was when he had to stand on his own two feet, and again Kent now appears to be carrying him also. 

 

If Rowles offered anything on the ball, believe me I'd not be hating on him this much but he doesn't. His passes are typically 6 yarders along the line usually back the way it came (failing to advance play meaning we struggle to successfully play it out from the back). He doesn't have the vision to spot runners and play the likes of McKay, Oda or Vargas through (Which Sibbick has done for Smiths goal against Aberdeen). He can't run with the ball, Sibbick can, his goal against Hibs at Easter Road for example and he's generally a weak defender - see any game where he's been up against a striker that gets in his face, be that Curtis Main or Stevie May  

 

If he could read play, he wouldn't have headered the ball back into danger or scythed down Živković for the penalty, likewise he wouldn't constantly be booked for having to pull back attackers that have got away from him (get this isn't your point, but I've heard his reading of play is meant to be one of his strengths lmao). 

And I respect yours but disagree with it

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, No Idle Talk said:

 

Halliday and Devlin are not a good pairing. 

 

I'd give Sibbick another go in there. Yeah he wasn't great on Sunday but he's been playing in defence for the past year and has only had 135 minutes playing in midfield. It will take him a wee while to get up to speed with the change. 

 

If it's not Sibbick I guess it will need to be Denholm. 

 

I want Cochrane back out on the left where he can dovetail with Stephen Kingsley. 

 

Or if we have enough central mids to fill half an eggs box and none of them work, maybe we could change our formation to one that they, ostensibly professional football players, can play successfully?

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Or if we have enough central mids to fill half an eggs box and none of them work, maybe we could change our formation to one that they, ostensibly professional football players, can play successfully?

I thought Sibbick and Denholm were a dreadful midfield pairing tbh 

[No Idle Talk]

18 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Or if we have enough central mids to fill half an eggs box and none of them work, maybe we could change our formation to one that they, ostensibly professional football players, can play successfully?

 

Now there's a revolutionary idea.

[LochcarronJambo]

2 hours ago, Captain Canada said:

I can't see past a 3-0 defeat, but I hope I'm way off the mark and we can do something incredible. 

 

We don't have a good enough midfield. They weren't brilliant in the first leg, but I think they'll be much better at home. 

Be very surprised if the outcome is not as you allude to, hope I am wrong too

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, OTT said:

 

Respect your point of view, I think he's an awful footballer though and personally cannot wait to be shot of him. He brings nothing to the table that I can see. Halks was clearly carrying him as can be evidenced with how soft as shite our defence was when he had to stand on his own two feet, and again Kent now appears to be carrying him also. 

 

If Rowles offered anything on the ball, believe me I'd not be hating on him this much but he doesn't. His passes are typically 6 yarders along the line usually back the way it came (failing to advance play meaning we struggle to successfully play it out from the back). He doesn't have the vision to spot runners and play the likes of McKay, Oda or Vargas through (Which Sibbick has done for Smiths goal against Aberdeen). He can't run with the ball, Sibbick can, his goal against Hibs at Easter Road for example and he's generally a weak defender - see any game where he's been up against a striker that gets in his face, be that Curtis Main or Stevie May  

 

If he could read play, he wouldn't have headered the ball back into danger or scythed down Živković for the penalty, likewise he wouldn't constantly be booked for having to pull back attackers that have got away from him (get this isn't your point, but I've heard his reading of play is meant to be one of his strengths lmao). 

Spot on 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

PAOK 3-0 Heart of Midlothian 

 

Not even getting up at ridiculous o'clock to watch.

[BackOfTheNet]

We’ll get utterly pumped and be knackered after 15 minutes and the 30 degree heat will have Boyce and Cochrane stretchered off after half an hour with sunstroke. It’ll be Fiorentina/Istanbul levels unfortunately.

Edited August 28, 2023 by BackOfTheNet

[hearts00]

3 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Need a Bordeaux/Braga performance. 

Just need De Vries, Webster, Pressley, Hartley and about four other from that team then. 

[Balaclava]

7 hours ago, David McCaig said:

Whilst not a huge fan of Kingsley as a LCH in a back 4, I think we are pretty much at the no other options stage.

 

I like Frankie Kent as an out and out old school defender but he has the passing ability of Christophe Berra, so desperately needs a ball playing centre half alongside him which is something Rowles will never be.  To be honest, as well as being vastly superior on the ball, I think Kingsley edges Rowles on aerial ability as well.

 

This in turn allows Cochrane to play in his natural LB position.

 

The only issue I'd have with that side is that Project Denholm is surely now dead in the water and it probably has to be in order of preference, Lowry, Sibbick, Grant, Halliday, Tait, playing with 10 men, Stone, clear blue water .... followed by Denholm for the role alongside Devlin.

I think he’s miles better than Rowles in the air. As he’s getting back to himself his aerial dules are improving as well.

[Jim_Duncan]

2 hours ago, Sooks said:

Rowles over Sibbick for me 

Like choosing between whether to eat a cup of diarrhoea or a frozen shite lolly. 
 

Sell Rowles to a league in which defending involves picking daisies and just bring on Sibbick when we play the vermin. 

[weegie jambo]

5 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

I’m not even sure hes a midfielder, was a left winger as a youngster and has moved steadily backwards to reach the bench, next stop the stand once more players are fit. RN played him in about 7 different positions, he was crap in them all. 
He scored those goals 17 months ago, has got steadily worse since then, and you can’t compare a frankly awful Hibs team at Tynecastle under Maloney to a decent Greek team at home with double our budget. 
He won’t even come off the bench and will hopefully go on loan somewhere on Friday. 

I think we'll have to disagree on this one. I know he's not one for the future but I think he may be able to "do a job" on Thursday as I don't fancy the options such as they are!

 

[Pasquale for King]

15 minutes ago, weegie jambo said:

I think we'll have to disagree on this one. I know he's not one for the future but I think he may be able to "do a job" on Thursday as I don't fancy the options such as they are!

 

I think we can agree on the options not being great. 
Was hungover earlier, apologies if I was a bit over the top. 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Pasquale for King
Spelling

[Boab Mugabe]

Continue our now European tradition of conceding a soft goal in the first 10 minutes and get ragdolled from there on in.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Boab Mugabe said:

Continue our now European tradition of conceding a soft goal in the first 10 minutes and get ragdolled from there on in.

Everyone said before the last game no soft early goals, we get one and instantly give it back. I think we need to be on our guard, maybe even break up play like they did to stop them getting momentum and then start playing the way we want to. 

[craigrusty1985]

Got pelters on Instagram for suggestion we might have slim chance of turning it around from PAOK fans if we apply ourselves but after Sunday think the slander was justified. Anyways this would be my preferred lineup

[D4nny_]

4 hours ago, Captain Canada said:

I can't see past a 3-0 defeat, but I hope I'm way off the mark and we can do something incredible. 

 

We don't have a good enough midfield. They weren't brilliant in the first leg, but I think they'll be much better at home. 

This is pretty much where I’m at.

 

Having said that, I never gave us a chance against Rosenborg at Tynecastle and I was proved wrong but my gut feeling is the same now. So many more variables to consider here too like the atmosphere and the 30 degree heat!

 

Really felt like we needed a 2 goal advantage going over but we’ve got everything to gain and PAOK have it all to loose now!

[Rocky jamboa]

9 hours ago, weegie jambo said:

what would your midfield look like? given we have so few options! Halliday would at least get stuck in and has experience.

So what. We need better than someone who gets stuck in. We need our best players on Thursday so Halliday should be nowhere near the starting 11.

[Rocky jamboa]

If we keep it tight first half, then have a bit more of a go in the second half and aim to nip a goal or two.

 

I don't think PAOK are anything special so we defo have a slight chance of going through. 

 

I'd go with:-

 

                         Clark

Offiah   Kent    Rowles    Kingsley 

          Devlin    Nieuwenhof 

Vargas          Boyce        cochrane

                 Shanks

[gregzy2k7]

2 hours ago, hearts00 said:

Just need De Vries, Webster, Pressley, Hartley and about four other from that team then. 

Even just one of those players would improve us massively. I always liked Webster, hearing he is back at the club, maybe could still do a job there ?

[Bongo 1874]

                  Clark 

Natty Kent Rowles Kingsley 

                 Sibbick

        Devlin    Cochrane 

Oda   Tagawa    Vargas

 

433.

[GinRummy]

Admiring the optimism but we are getting emptied here. The sooner it’s over and we can concentrate on the league the better. 

[jambmoz]

If we get out of this without being completely humiliated we will be doing well, 4 or 5 unfortunately 

[ri Alban]

The starting 11.

[Mac80]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

Admiring the optimism but we are getting emptied here. The sooner it’s over and we can concentrate on the league the better. 

This 

[Sooks]

One league defeat away to Dundee where we rested many of our best players , and suddenly we are getting skited by the Greeks ? I think we have looked good in Europe so far , and I think we deserved a better result against PAOK at Tynecastle . One of my biggest criticisms of Neilson was that he refused to react to bad defeats or performances by getting the team to play with more impetus like they have some thing to prove . We lost that double header to Celtic and from then on in was just a lot of crap about how our patient passing game will come good again . It never , and we should have been snarling and desperate to get out the traps vs Aberdeen , Killie and St Mirren . I think Naismith will be different and have us wanting to make up for that shit show on Sunday . Naismith was never my choice as manager but now he is in the job , I hope he uses the strengths that I do credit him with 

[Chimp]

11 hours ago, Sooks said:

Rowles over Sibbick for me 

 

I'm with you on that mate, as controversial as it seems to be. 

Rowles is actually capable of defending but his lack of physicality lets him down. Started the season well and has been absolutely jumped on as soon as he gave away that penalty. No going back for a lot of fans after that it seems.

[TexasAndy]

Ever the glass half full I think we are very much still in this.  All the pressure, expectation is on them.  Maybe, just maybe we can turn this around.

[Jack Torrance]

22 hours ago, tartofmidlothian said:

Mods - teams the wrong way round in the title, please can you sort, thank you!

You trying to steal ma thread op? 😄

 

Anyhoo, makes no odds as long as we get the right result Tart. I'm going for an epic turnaround on Thursday. 1-3 Hearts. 👍