***Official Heart of Midlothian v Kilmarnock Match Thread***

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, Jingle Bells said:

 

There was one according to the BBC, I must have been nodding off and missed it too.

One shot on target in 95 minutes is taking the pisss, Neilson style

 

.

Definitely. I can’t think of one at all, telling us we will be great in a month really sounds very Levein/Neilson unfortunately.

[JFK-1]

26 minutes ago, Chuck Berry said:

 

Not so sure they will be.  Their first two games were ones where they were always going to sit-in and try and grab something on the break.  If they were sitting with two points instead of four, they would still be very happy.

 

The question that is yet to be asked is what do they look like when they need to open up and go at teams. We'll find out soon enough, 

 

This is a McInnes side, this is exactly what they will do all season. And probably make top 6

[scott herbertson]

42 minutes ago, Portable Badger said:

It won't last - we all started out that way and now look at us all !!!

I'd like to argue with that, but my thousands of posts with minimal content tell the truth

Edited August 13, 2023 by scott herbertson

[Saint Jambo]

2 hours ago, John Findlay said:

To those saying no improvement from last season, I say au contraire. Last season we would have lost that game as we did the league cup against them last season. We have improved in defence, especially defending corners and free kick just outside and around the box. Frankie Kent is very commanding in the air, also good in the air are Haring and Kingsley. All three won their fair share in their own box today.

It didn't come off in the final third today, but that is where we have recruited the most. Once the understanding comes( there were signs today contrary to what the doomsayers are saying) we are giving a team a real doing.

 4 from 6 is not shabby. Many would have settled for a point in Perth and Three at home today. Hearts just did it the other way around. 

Now could all the Hibs interlopers **** off to whence you came, and start demanding Lee Johnson. Gets the tin tack.

 

Our last home game against Kilmarnock was a league game and we won 3-1. A nil-nil draw is not an improvement on last season. If you want to paint a rosey picture by comparing to the league cup game and ignoring the actual league game, fair enough, but if people take a different view that hardly makes them Hibs fans. One of the laziest tropes on jkb.

[Jingle Bells]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Definitely. I can’t think of one at all, telling us we will be great in a month really sounds very Levein/Neilson unfortunately.

 

Nothing against Naismith, who I hope does well, but he should be learning his trade from a Manager of substance, imho.

The reason given for appointing the On the Job Trainee Head Coaches was that if it was a new Manager instead he would  always want to bring in his own players and get rid of the previously signed ones however we sign eight to ten each season anyway.

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Jingle Bells said:

 

Nothing against Naismith, who I hope does well, but he should be learning his trade from a Manager of substance, imho.

The reason given for appointing the On the Job Trainee Head Coaches was that if it was a new Manager instead he would  always want to bring in his own players and get rid of the previously signed ones however we sign eight to ten each season anyway.

Yeah I want him to succeed, was waiting to see what he would change in the 2nd half but wasn’t expecting more long high balls tbh. 
Lets hope we get some energy for Thursday and that spurs us on to better performances, when the new guys settle in a bit more. 

[Pasquale for King]

19 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

This is a McInnes side, this is exactly what they will do all season. And probably make top 6

Absolutely, was thinking when they were singing his name that within a few years of watching that football they will want him out as the Aberdeen fans did. 

[Chuck Berry]

30 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

This is a McInnes side, this is exactly what they will do all season. And probably make top 6

 

It is, but at Aberdeen they were a threat going forward and consistently got results. Not sure this Killie side have that consistently in forward areas.

[OldGorgie]

Sorry to rock the boat but playing at home we should have beaten them 3-0. Disappointed at our lack of progress under McAvoy.

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

Sorry to rock the boat but playing at home we should have beaten them 3-0. Disappointed at our lack of progress under McAvoy.

Is it not Naismith that is in charge?

[Batistuta87]

1 hour ago, Sleepy head said:

He was dire.Gets the ball,stops,passes it back inside but does it with style.

Thought he was a lot better today. He got forward quite a bit and our best chance came from him drilling it across the box. Was in the attacking half a lot in the 2nd half too. 

[fila]

13 hours ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

We need to be willing to go with a mix of tactics. When we still rigidly to a single tactic we become predictable and easy to defend against.

 

That was one of the problems on Thursday. They worked out that if they broke up our attacks early with cheap free kicks around the half way line, they wouldn't be booked and we would wait for their entire team to get behind the ball. We would then take the free kicks with a short pass to the side or backwards before playing lots of sideways passes in front of their defence and midfield until eventually we misplaced a pass and they won back possession. The result was really high possession stats but few shots. If we had launched a couple of those free kicks into the box, Rosenberg would have had to consider that giving away free kicks on the halfway line  was a dangerous tactic, giving us more opportunity to successfully play on the break. It was no surprise that when we finally shook things up we took a free kick long from the halfway line we scored.

 

It's not about becoming a long ball team, it's about becoming a team that is unpredictable.

nothing changes

[fila]

Well that was bollocks, no pace or a real willingness to play quick down the wings . Midfield content to pay back or across . No high pressure . 
 

Again some the players who are being built as good, are not showing it IMO.

 

plus points for me is that Kent looks good , Vargas looks lively and we drought on Denholm , great to see youth getting a chance 

[JFK-1]

I'm not convinced by this, as it stands no one has scored against Killie not even Rangers and their multi million attack. I think this is simply what McInnes does and he's good at it.

 

It's what got the sheep consecutive Euro spots with little quality. Then as soon as they hounded him out they were almost relegated.

 

This is his second season at Killie, he's got them playing his way and they will be hard to beat. They will.nick a lot of draws and narrow wins.

[hearts00]

3 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

Exactly. Mediocre performances like this should not be accepted if we are to try and improve on last season. 
 

also those saying ‘we would have lost that game last year’ and trying to spin it as a positive has their heads in the sand. 
 

the stats from the game are embarrassing especially at home.

The stats are truly brutal for a home game against the OF. 
 

Killie set up and played exactly as expected. They were good at it. 
 

We were not good at what we were meant to do.  
 

Unf in the first three games it is quite clear if you sit deep, compress the space in between the lines and leave little room in behind, we will find it very hard to create much and will be vulnerable on the counter. 

[JFK-1]

8 minutes ago, hearts00 said:

if you sit deep, compress the space in between the lines and leave little room in behind, we will find it very hard to create much and will be vulnerable on the counter. 

 

I think everybody will find it hard, ask Rangers.

[Jingle Bells]

2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah I want him to succeed, was waiting to see what he would change in the 2nd half but wasn’t expecting more long high balls tbh. 
Lets hope we get some energy for Thursday and that spurs us on to better performances, when the new guys settle in a bit more. 

 

Lowry is to slow to be on the left wing and more of a number 10 whilst Tagawa is quick but isn't a goal scorer so I reckon Naismith should have swopped them around.

Pish that Shankland's not playing as a CF too 

A win on Thursday is a must.

Still think we need a pacey left winger to come in.

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Jingle Bells said:

 

Lowry is to slow to be on the left wing and more of a number 10 whilst Tagawa is quick but isn't a goal scorer so I reckon Naismith should have swopped them around.

Pish that Shankland's not playing as a CF too 

A win on Thursday is a must.

Still think we need a pacey left winger to come in.

He wont find the space needed as a 10, agree about him on the left though and Shankland through the middle. We need pace up front on the wings though as you say to stretch teams like today with a flat back 5. 
McKay will make a difference, as will Vargas when up to speed, cant see us signing another forward player tbh unless Forrest goes. 

[Pasquale for King]

57 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

I'm not convinced by this, as it stands no one has scored against Killie not even Rangers and their multi million attack. I think this is simply what McInnes does and he's good at it.

 

It's what got the sheep consecutive Euro spots with little quality. Then as soon as they hounded him out they were almost relegated.

 

This is his second season at Killie, he's got them playing his way and they will be hard to beat. They will.nick a lot of draws and narrow wins.

They were tenth when they “hounded him out” after years of turgid shite like what we witnessed today, would you want him as our manager?

[JFK-1]

7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

They were tenth when they “hounded him out” after years of turgid shite like what we witnessed today, would you want him as our manager?

 

They were 4th when he left.

[Jingle Bells]

22 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

He wont find the space needed as a 10, agree about him on the left though and Shankland through the middle. We need pace up front on the wings though as you say to stretch teams like today with a flat back 5. 
McKay will make a difference, as will Vargas when up to speed, cant see us signing another forward player tbh unless Forrest goes. 

 

Rudi did alright as a No 10 but like you mentioned two good and fast wingers  are needed to make it  (4 2 3 1) work well. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Jingle Bells

[Harry Potter]

13 hours ago, Morgan said:

Ok, since it’s a song thread, I’m lost in France.

 

I’m also too sexy for my shirt.

Was lost in France, my wife had us going to Paris instead of Brittany😕.

[TexasAndy]

Disappointed with yesterday especially our lack of urgency in attack.   Kilmarnock will do well against the bigger teams this season the way they set up but I can see them failing to break down bottom 6 teams who will do same to them.  Overall a frustrating day but we have quite a few new players needing a wee bit time to settle in.

[Sooks]

We dont seem to want to switch play at all . We had a man free out wide a lot and never spread the ball to him . Kent was good and Vargas looks promising 

[LochcarronJambo]

12 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

The appetite to work the ball quicker and believe we could get behind Killie waned with every time they smothered us or fired into a tackle.  I’m not saying our players didn’t have the desire, it was just the belief, or lack of.

 

It became pretty grating.  You have to believe you will get that moment and get the better of your opponent, maybe a chance to get a ball in or an effort on goal.  
 

We just didn’t seem to match Killie’s desire to defend their goal with the same amount of willingness to break it. 

 

 

Yes you are spot on

[KG1874]

Disappointed we couldn’t keep the 3 point advantage over the bluenoses especially playing at home but we move on to Thursday for a big win 

[cazzyy]

9 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

They were tenth when they “hounded him out” after years of turgid shite like what we witnessed today, would you want him as our manager?

 

9 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

They were 4th when he left.

 

[Turkishcap]

Its funny but for all it sounded a bit dire on the radio at times I just watched the YT highlights and it didnt look too bad!

[John Findlay]

12 hours ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

Our last home game against Kilmarnock was a league game and we won 3-1. A nil-nil draw is not an improvement on last season. If you want to paint a rosey picture by comparing to the league cup game and ignoring the actual league game, fair enough, but if people take a different view that hardly makes them Hibs fans. One of the laziest tropes on jkb.

The game we beat them 3-1 was played on the 17th of December which was five months into the season.

I compared yesterday with the league cup game as like yesterday it took place nearer the start of the season when teams are still gelling.

The 3-1 victory was our only victory over Kilmarnock last season.

We lost the league cup game 1-0 at Tynecastle. Drew our first league game at Rugby Patk 2-2 and lost our second league game at Rugby Park 2-1.

Yet at season end we finished Fourth and qualified for Europe, Kilmarnock finished in the bottom six, Tenth I believe.

So forgive me if I don't panic or wet my pants after two league games.

[Firefox]

10 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

I'm not convinced by this, as it stands no one has scored against Killie not even Rangers and their multi million attack. I think this is simply what McInnes does and he's good at it.

 

It's what got the sheep consecutive Euro spots with little quality. Then as soon as they hounded him out they were almost relegated.

 

This is his second season at Killie, he's got them playing his way and they will be hard to beat. They will.nick a lot of draws and narrow wins.

[Ex member of the SaS]

Personally I would have started with the fast players on both wings, give them an hour or so then bring on fresh legs. We start too slowly and it riles me that most if not all free kicks and throw in's head backwards. A throw in on the edge of the box always seems to end up back at the center circle. We need more players  in the box when attacking as one lone player will hardly ever beat two or three defenders.

[chrystaf]

35 minutes ago, Turkishcap said:

Its funny but for all it sounded a bit dire on the radio at times I just watched the YT highlights and it didnt look too bad!

Fro 70 minutes it was dire.

[briever]

9 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Personally I would have started with the fast players on both wings, give them an hour or so then bring on fresh legs. We start too slowly and it riles me that most if not all free kicks and throw in's head backwards. A throw in on the edge of the box always seems to end up back at the center circle. We need more players  in the box when attacking as one lone player will hardly ever beat two or three defenders.

 

Pointless having fast players on both wings when we have no creativity in the midfield.

[Pasquale for King]

10 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

They were 4th when he left.

They had won two games that year and the fans were sick to the back teeth of him and his turgid style, a bit like Neilson who you no doubt backed to the hilt. Last time, would you want him as our manager?

[Back to 2005]

We do need to decide what our best midfield set up is. Decided lack of creativity as it stands though. 

[Eddiepolio3]

This was the team when we had 30 shots against Aberdeen, only difference is cochrane, mackay and ginnelly.

[chrystaf]

4 hours ago, briever said:

 

Pointless having fast players on both wings when we have no creativity in the midfield.

Yep, that said it all.  Time and again Oda was isolated on our right but never got a decent ball.  Had to drop back to get it,which was the same with MacKay last season.   These type of players need the ball in front of them so they can run onto it at speed, not be stationary when picking it up.

[JFK-1]

9 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

They had won two games that year and the fans were sick to the back teeth of him and his turgid style, a bit like Neilson who you no doubt backed to the hilt. Last time, would you want him as our manager?

 

And they were still 4th. Why would I want him as a manager? What relevance does that have to what I'm saying about Kilmarnock?

[skacel103]

4 hours ago, chrystaf said:

Yep, that said it all.  Time and again Oda was isolated on our right but never got a decent ball.  Had to drop back to get it,which was the same with MacKay last season.   These type of players need the ball in front of them so they can run onto it at speed, not be stationary when picking it up.

I think against these teams you need a simms type player or uche that can wrestle past them. It's not always pretty but frees up space. 

[Pasquale for King]

17 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

And they were still 4th. Why would I want him as a manager? What relevance does that have to what I'm saying about Kilmarnock?

You are praising him and saying the Aberdeen fan’s hounded him out, they wanted rid of him for years because his style of football is everything thats wrong with the league we play in.
He has found his level, much like Neilson will, below ours. 

[JFK-1]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

You are praising him and saying the Aberdeen fan’s hounded him out, they wanted rid of him for years because his style of football is everything thats wrong with the league we play in.
He has found his level, much like Neilson will, below ours. 

 

I'm not praising him, the sheep did hound him out, what does that have to do with what I'm saying about Kilmarnock? 

[Portable Badger]

10 hours ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Personally I would have started with the fast players on both wings, give them an hour or so then bring on fresh legs. We start too slowly and it riles me that most if not all free kicks and throw in's head backwards. A throw in on the edge of the box always seems to end up back at the center circle. We need more players  in the box when attacking as one lone player will hardly ever beat two or three defenders.

I know shed loads of people scoffed and  others pissed themselves laughing when Klopp recuited a Throw-in specialist but they're worth their weight in gold. 

[Robbo-Jambo]

11 hours ago, skacel103 said:

I think against these teams you need a simms type player or uche that can wrestle past them. It's not always pretty but frees up space. 

Exactly.

 

We need a big, strong target man particularly for these type of games.

[pettigrewsstylist]

On 14/08/2023 at 01:04, hearts00 said:

The stats are truly brutal for a home game against the OF. 
 

Killie set up and played exactly as expected. They were good at it. 
 

We were not good at what we were meant to do.  
 

Unf in the first three games it is quite clear if you sit deep, compress the space in between the lines and leave little room in behind, we will find it very hard to create much and will be vulnerable on the counter. 

This. Over to us to have "threat".

[4marsbars]

On 13/08/2023 at 22:00, JFK-1 said:

 

This is a McInnes side, this is exactly what they will do all season. And probably make top 6

 

Wasn't at the game.

 

McInnes? Seem to remember last season, was it Kilmarnock whose players went down and writhed about every time Devlin came close to them, in a way that looked premeditated?

 

Therefore, wasn't surprised to see he got booked on Sunday.  But maybe I'm wrong.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

Apologies if posted; Conroy says dickinson should have awarded a penalty for findlay grappling Shankland

 

https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/spfl/scottish-premiership/willie-collum-called-out-over-27517123

 

-
 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Ricardo Quaresma

[Watt-Zeefuik]

8 hours ago, Robbo-Jambo said:

Exactly.

 

We need a big, strong target man particularly for these type of games.

This and only this would be the reason I'd consider signing Morelos. I don't want our leading attacker to be a big huddy, but having a big huddy type attacker in the squad to throw at teams like Killie isn't a bad thing.

[The Paille Man]

A few thoughts on Sunday's game.

 

https://maroonspecs.substack.com/p/match-overreaction-heart-of-midlothian