Shankland

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

10 minutes ago, 19/05/2012 said:

Southampton have bid £10 million for Nathan Wood that flopped at Hibs a few seasons ago. I wouldn’t sell for less than £7 million 

Just saw that. We should not budge. The money could be worth just as much as 2 Europes 

 

Release clauses apparently need to remain private, Leeds just scored an extra 3 million on Tyler Adams, so Bournemouth couldnt afford litigation and paid more instead.

 

The point I am making, 3 million release clause, would not be in the public domain, its a made up story

Edited August 22, 2023 by Lord Beni of Gorgie

[Mr Elwood P]

23 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

If the £3 million thing is true that's a complete disaster.

 

Nathan Patterson, a right back, went from Rangers to Everton on a deal worth £16 million with add ons.

 

Calvin Ramsay, a right back, went for £6.5 million.

 

Che Adams going for around £15 million if it gets worked out.

 

A proven prolific scorer in Scottish Premiership, Europe and International caps at age 28 should be Patterson levels of money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Paterson and Ramsay have high ceilings for potential growth as players. Shankland is at his very best right now and is heading towards 30. Nesbit and Simms struggling for goals in the Championship doesn't help us either ...

[AC Mallin_51]

51 minutes ago, Worthing Jambo said:

Liam Corbett, on the TIMS podcast, suggested that there may be a £3M release clause.

If that’s the case, then there isn’t much we can do but hope for a bidding war.

I’ve heard this a few times but I think back to savages comments last winter about Rangers interest in him. Weren’t they along the lines of “nope they can’t afford him”? If that’s the case then there can’t be a 3m release clause considering Rangers have spent £6m on a striker in this window

[JJ93]

Shank’s goals are worth how many millions to us per season?

 

I would rather keep him and let him go for free. He will make us more money in European progression, 3rd or higher finishes and cups then selling him for a few million. 

[Rocky jamboa]

50 minutes ago, tiger Rudi said:

Yes, I take your point, we need to live within our means. His goals are money in the bank though. Exit Europe against PAOK and I think the club will look to cash in. They need to hold out for a decent offer though, fed up seeing our best players leave for peanuts. A proven goalscorer, we should be starting the bidding at 5mill and holding out for more. 

Yeah definitely. We're in a comfortable position financially now so can afford to hold out for the right price. There's no point accepting a £2m/£3m bid as his goals will earns us more than that from European and cup runs, plus the money that comes with finishing third. 

[JJ93]

1 hour ago, way out west jambo said:

Southampton are desperate for players and they have a barrel full of cash. If it’s an enquiry to hearts, we should be starting somewhere like £15m and settling for £12.5m. £7m to £8m isn’t worth it as shankland will be the difference between a 2nd or 3rd finish this season where we would coup more from potential champs league or more likely Europa group stages. 

Exactly. He makes us millions. So he is worth a lot. Much more than 5m.

[Victorian]

A few factors sometimes combine to make a player's value a bit unpredictable.  We could get lucky and end up with a £6m to £8m offer if the right club appears and is concerned that lengthy negotiations might end up with him going elsewhere.  Or we might be unlucky and not get that kind of offer.  It's very difficult for the selling club to determine what the minimum fee is if there's a chance of an inflated offer.

[chrystaf]

16 minutes ago, Craig_ said:

 

He's a decent player, no doubt but never a goal machine. They'd have been better keeping Simms.

Where did Simms go?

[Mr Elwood P]

Just now, JJ93 said:

Exactly. He makes us millions. So he is worth a lot. Much more than 5m.

If Ellis Simms at 22 being sold by Everton is worth £7m, we're getting half of that for 28 year old Shankland being sold by Hearts.

[Nookie Bear]

1 minute ago, chrystaf said:

Where did Simms go?

 

Coventry. £8m.

[karipidis]

The 3m release clause is worrying but agree that Savage was quite bullish about Rangers interest in January. And I think he would have been gone by now if he had a £3m release clause. 

 

I hope he stays, I think he probably will. A lot of the speculation appears to be just that and we are in a good bargaining position. 

[Pasquale for King]

10 minutes ago, AC Mallin_51 said:

I’ve heard this a few times but I think back to savages comments last winter about Rangers interest in him. Weren’t they along the lines of “nope they can’t afford him”? If that’s the case then there can’t be a 3m release clause considering Rangers have spent £6m on a striker in this window

Fair point, we now know that we can’t really trust what Savage says. 

[Rods]

2 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

If Ellis Simms at 22 being sold by Everton is worth £7m, we're getting half of that for 28 year old Shankland being sold by Hearts.

Was simms not nearing the end of his contract? How do you know there is not add Ons? 
 

The issue with your statement is he is worth more than 3.5 mill by staying here so why would we sell? 

 

On a side note I want Shankland to stay so I hope that Southampton or whoever think like you and they will get told to bolt. 

 

 

[Chimp]

1 minute ago, karipidis said:

The 3m release clause is worrying but agree that Savage was quite bullish about Rangers interest in January. And I think he would have been gone by now if he had a £3m release clause. 

 

I hope he stays, I think he probably will. A lot of the speculation appears to be just that and we are in a good bargaining position. 

 

There's no evidence of that and haven't seen any source confirm that. As far as I know its a rumour that was started.

[Mr Elwood P]

2 minutes ago, Rods said:

Was simms not nearing the end of his contract? How do you know there is not add Ons? 
 

The issue with your statement is he is worth more than 3.5 mill by staying here so why would we sell? 

 

On a side note I want Shankland to stay so I hope that Southampton or whoever think like you and they will get told to bolt. 

 

 

Simms is 22, scored in the EPL and English Championship last season and has a high ceiling. Shankland doesn't get a game for Scotland ahead of Lyndon Dykes and is likely at his very best right now.

[Pasquale for King]

Southampton are desperate to buy, we are not desperate to sell, they have made a fortune this summer selling off their failures by playing hardball. Can only see us selling for a huge fee if we go out of Europe, and Shankland wants to go a team that are probably back down for a while. 

[luckydug]

3 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Simms is 22, scored in the EPL and English Championship last season and has a high ceiling. Shankland doesn't get a game for Scotland ahead of Lyndon Dykes and is likely at his very best right now.

That's fine he stays and sees his contract out then. 👍 

[GBJambo]

25 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Terrible example. Jota is already being lined up for the exit door!

 

For Shankland to worth anything like the fees being shouted on here, he'd need to be starting for Scotland or at the very least ahead of Dykes in the pecking order. I fear the Nesbit deal is likely to be far closer to the fee being offered ...

We don’t need to sell him for buttons. 
How much would it cost to replace him?

[theshed]

9 minutes ago, karipidis said:

The 3m release clause is worrying but agree that Savage was quite bullish about Rangers interest in January. And I think he would have been gone by now if he had a £3m release clause. 

 

I hope he stays, I think he probably will. A lot of the speculation appears to be just that and we are in a good bargaining position. 

As you say if there was a 3 million release clause he’d be long gone by now so I’m calling that rumour a load of rubbish 

[McCrae]

Just now, GBJambo said:

We don’t need to sell him for buttons. 
How much would it cost to replace him?

We don’t need to sell him this year. Another good season will increase his value, can always revisit this next year.

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, luckydug said:

That's fine he stays and sees his contract out then. 👍 

 

Just now, GBJambo said:

We don’t need to sell him for buttons. 
How much would it cost to replace him?

We won't keep him if he wants to go though. We're clearly trying to kick start our player trading model and keeping an unhappy player would derail that.

[GBJambo]

10 minutes ago, Rods said:

Was simms not nearing the end of his contract? How do you know there is not add Ons? 
 

The issue with your statement is he is worth more than 3.5 mill by staying here so why would we sell? 

 

On a side note I want Shankland to stay so I hope that Southampton or whoever think like you and they will get told to bolt. 

 

 

He’s probably the difference between getting third and not third next season . 
 

Crazy to sell him for 3 million then 

[Mr Elwood P]

Just now, McCrae said:

We don’t need to sell him this year. Another good season will increase his value, can always revisit this next year.

 

He would be worth less next summer. He would be 29 and have a year left on his contract.

[GBJambo]

Just now, Mr Elwood P said:

 

We won't keep him if he wants to go though. We're clearly trying to kick start our player trading model and keeping an unhappy player would derail that.

Is he unhappy? Looks happy and said he is happy here . 

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, GBJambo said:

Is he unhappy? Looks happy and said he is happy here . 

'If' was the key word. If an offer comes in that doubles his weekly wage and offers a better regular level of football he might be unhappy not being able to pursue it.

[McCrae]

Just now, Mr Elwood P said:

 

He would be worth less next summer. He would be 29 and have a year left on his contract.

Depends on how he plays and what we achieve. He could easily end up as a regular for Scotland and scoring more than 20 goals again. 

[GBJambo]

Just now, Mr Elwood P said:

'If' was the key word. If an offer comes in that doubles his weekly wage and offers a better regular level of football he might be unhappy not being able to pursue it.

Not sure he would get regular football at Southampton . With the money they have they are looking to come straight back up and so may look to get someone with a better pedigree. 

[Mr Elwood P]

5 minutes ago, McCrae said:

Depends on how he plays and what we achieve. He could easily end up as a regular for Scotland and scoring more than 20 goals again. 

That won't affect his age or contract length. Performance, age and contract length are the factors that generate player value. We would only have the performances.

[luckydug]

6 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

 

We won't keep him if he wants to go though. We're clearly trying to kick start our player trading model and keeping an unhappy player would derail that.

What about our team building

model ? 

Start selling our best players and slip down the table and you can forget sell out games and ST waiting lists. 

Some modern football fans are obsessed with money instead of on field success. 💰

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, luckydug said:

What about our team building

model ? 

Start selling our best players and slip down the table and you can forget sell out games and ST waiting lists. 

Some modern football fans are obsessed with money instead of on field success. 💰

Which club has a team building model? Only a couple of clubs on the planet won't sell their top talent.

[Fozzyonthefence]

13 minutes ago, McCrae said:

Depends on how he plays and what we achieve. He could easily end up as a regular for Scotland and scoring more than 20 goals again. 

He’s never ending up as a regular for Scotland while Steve Clarke is the manager.  And to be fair, Adams and Dykes are excellent for Scotland.  If we sell Shankland in 12 months time we’re getting buttons for him.  
 

I’d prefer he stays as I’m more interested in football matches than balance sheets but I think the club will try to cash in now / after PAOK games.  

[JimmyCant]

4 minutes ago, luckydug said:

What about our team building

model ? 

Start selling our best players and slip down the table and you can forget sell out games and ST waiting lists. 

Some modern football fans are obsessed with money instead of on field success. 💰

It’s not the money. It’s the fact that it’s pointless trying to keep a player who wants to go somewhere else for more than twice what he’s getting now. The best you can do is get value for them. Nothing you can do short if holding them to a captive contract and pissing them off. No such thing as ‘team building’ at our level because our good players will always want to go to a higher level

[JimmyCant]

3 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

He’s never ending up as a regular for Scotland while Steve Clarke is the manager.  And to be fair, Adams and Dykes are excellent for Scotland.  If we sell Shankland in 12 months time we’re getting buttons for him.  
 

I’d prefer he stays as I’m more interested in football matches than balance sheets but I think the club will try to cash in now / after PAOK games.  

It’s not that complicated. If he wants to go he’ll be going. Whether that’s this week, or January or next summer, or he runs his contract down. Hopefully we’ve not committed to a daft release clause and end up getting less than he is worth

Edited August 22, 2023 by JimmyCant

[Carter]

46 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Paterson and Ramsay have high ceilings for potential growth as players. Shankland is at his very best right now and is heading towards 30. Nesbit and Simms struggling for goals in the Championship doesn't help us either ...

He just turned 28 the day he scored in Trondheim 🤷‍♂️

[Mr Elwood P]

1 minute ago, Carter said:

He just turned 28 the day he scored in Trondheim 🤷‍♂️

Yep, heading towards 30. If you've got a really good player you want them to be 19-22 ideally with a high potential ceiling a long term contract. That will maximise value. For me,  Shankland is at his absolute best right now and doesn't play for Scotland ahead of Lyndon Dykes and apparently Nesbit. That will impact the offers from English Championship clubs. The Jota move surely puts to bed any chat of Saudi. I think we will get an offer of £3-4m max.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

5 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

It’s not that complicated. If he wants to go he’ll be going. Whether that’s this week, or January or next summer, or he runs his contract down. Hopefully we’ve not committed to a daft release clause and end up getting less than he is worth

Savage has intimated previously release clauses are not very common, and they are also very private. Worth a read on Tyler Adams departure from Leeds to Bournemouth, and how that has worked out, due to a release clause being triggered beyond confidentiality.

[JimmyCant]

7 minutes ago, Carter said:

He just turned 28 the day he scored in Trondheim 🤷‍♂️

True but he’s not getting a big club on a big money contract unless he goes now whilst his stock is high. He is almost 30 when his contract runs out here. He’s not going anywhere for a really big wage at 30

Edited August 22, 2023 by JimmyCant

[Jim Panzee]

6 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

It’s not that complicated. If he wants to go he’ll be going. Whether that’s this week, or January or next summer, or he runs his contract down. Hopefully we’ve not committed to a daft release clause and end up getting less than he is worth

agree.

 

if someone was offering to double my wages I'd be considering it. Quadruple my wage and I'd be chucking the wife and kids out the way to sign on the dotted line.

 

clubs wanting to sign Shankland will primarily be considering his worth to them as a player in isolation. What we're all trying to factor in is not just the £3 - £4m we think he's worth as a player - its also the £3 - £5m he could earn the club by us potentially winning a cup, finishing 3rd and europe again.  Hence the suggested £6m - £9m figures being bandied about.

[JimmyCant]

3 minutes ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

Savage has intimated previously release clauses are not very common, and they are also very private. Worth a read on Tyler Adams departure from Leeds to Bournemouth, and how that has worked out, due to a release clause being triggered beyond confidentiality.

Very private but the agent knows about it ? Therefore every other agent will know about it or they make one quick phone call to find out what it is.

Edited August 22, 2023 by JimmyCant

[McCrae]

21 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

That won't affect his age or contract length. Performance, age and contract length are the factors that generate player value. We would only have the performances.

The performance factor is the most important. He has only had one very good goal scoring season playing in a top flight league. Could it be a one off? Doing again this season would remove any doubts.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Just now, JimmyCant said:

Very private but the agent knows about it. Therefore every other agent will know about it.

Nobody in public will know what the figure is. Could be equally 1.5 million or 7 million for anyone knows, the figure is pure guesswork, if it even is a thing

[JimmyCant]

2 minutes ago, Jim Panzee said:

agree.

 

if someone was offering to double my wages I'd be considering it. Quadruple my wage and I'd be chucking the wife and kids out the way to sign on the dotted line.

 

clubs wanting to sign Shankland will primarily be considering his worth to them as a player in isolation. What we're all trying to factor in is not just the £3 - £4m we think he's worth as a player - its also the £3 - £5m he could earn the club by us potentially winning a cup, finishing 3rd and europe again.  Hence the suggested £6m - £9m figures being bandied about.

Yep. We have to factor in what he’s worth as an individual player PLUS the potential cost of replacement. No point selling him if most of the fee is going right back out the door for a replacement 

[Cruyff]

We need to offer him a new deal now and if he rejects it then we have to sell him otherwise, we lose him for peanuts next summer or worse, for nothing the following season. I'd rather he signed a new deal but if there's mega bucks to be made then fair enough. 

 

Folk saying we can't replace him though. 

 

Literally Shanks, Dykes, Ross Stewart, Nisbet came from the lower leagues in Scotland. If we had millions to replace him with we could bring in some real quality. 

[Hearts_fan]

4 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

His agent can sook it!!! Hes signed for Hearts and we dont need to sell him. 
 

It really is that simple. He goes nowhere until his contract is up unless they “ show us the money”!

 

Hearts hold all the cards here. Salary is irrelevant unless he starts a renegotiation to EXTEND his current deal. 

100%

[JimmyCant]

3 minutes ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

Nobody in public will know what the figure is. Could be equally 1.5 million or 7 million for anyone knows, the figure is pure guesswork, if it even is a thing

I agree but it will be known in football agent circles. For me if it’s only £3m someone would have triggered it by now

[Mr Elwood P]

6 minutes ago, McCrae said:

The performance factor is the most important. He has only had one very good goal scoring season playing in a top flight league. Could it be a one off? Doing again this season would remove any doubts.

Of course it's not. We don't own the player. We own the contractual right, that allow them to play football. Contract length is very important. Look at Harry Kane!

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

We need to offer him a new deal now and if he rejects it then we have to sell him otherwise, we lose him for peanuts next summer or worse, for nothing the following season. I'd rather he signed a new deal but if there's mega bucks to be made then fair enough. 

 

Folk saying we can't replace him though. 

 

Literally Shanks, Dykes, Ross Stewart, Nisbet came from the lower leagues in Scotland. If we had millions to replace him with we could bring in some real quality. 

I am complete opposite end from you

 

I couldn’t give a toss if we lose him for nowt in 2 years

 

Keep him here and build a famous team round his captaincy 

 

Then he can walk for free summer 2025 all the best. 

 

Striker of that quality up front for Hearts? Not been seen for 30 years and may not be seen again for another 30 years. He is not replaceable 

[JimmyCant]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

We need to offer him a new deal now and if he rejects it then we have to sell him otherwise, we lose him for peanuts next summer or worse, for nothing the following season. I'd rather he signed a new deal but if there's mega bucks to be made then fair enough. 

 

Folk saying we can't replace him though. 

 

Literally Shanks, Dykes, Ross Stewart, Nisbet came from the lower leagues in Scotland. If we had millions to replace him with we could bring in some real quality. 

You think if we get £3-4m, McKinleys giving all that to Savage to sign a replacement ?

 

I think it more likely we sign potential to replace him, within the wage budget and for a reasonable fee if we have to, hoping we can unearth another Shankland and sell him on too

[Hearts_fan]

Shankland is the kind of inventive striker who instinctively knows how to adjust his body/feet everything just to get the ball redirected into the net. Robbo did it with aplomb. It’s all that matters in the box, batter the ball / dink it / flick it / rebound it off your arse / whatever it takes and without any conscious thought, just drill the bloody ball into the back of the net. Who needs pace when you have that intuition. Also, Shankland is no slouch anyway.

[Carter]

4 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

We need to offer him a new deal now and if he rejects it then we have to sell him otherwise, we lose him for peanuts next summer or worse, for nothing the following season. I'd rather he signed a new deal but if there's mega bucks to be made then fair enough. 

 

Folk saying we can't replace him though. 

 

Literally Shanks, Dykes, Ross Stewart, Nisbet came from the lower leagues in Scotland. If we had millions to replace him with we could bring in some real quality. 

Agree with that but there is also the rewards for keeping him this season. Kilmarnock knocked the door ajar on Sunday. The League Cup has become very winnable this season. The club need to be winning another trophy. Plus if his goals contribute to a League Cup win and 3rd place finish it would more than offset the differential imo.