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Naismith/McAvoy/Forrest confirmed as management team - contracted to 2025 (title updated)


kingantti1874

Naismith, Cifuentes, Someone Else  

589 members have voted

  1. 1. So who is your preference

    • Steven Naismith
    • Marti Cifuentes
    • Someone else (name them)

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15 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

And when we start whipping their arses, as per the usual, we will just tell them the invisible man is in charge 

"We just need to ask them about who's in charge of the team" ... Like having someone in charge would still prevent us from abusing them Yoy

 

Delusionary W......, The lot of them 


not so long ago they were wanting Johnson shot. Now he’s the bees knees 🤣🤣 

they are laughing at us lol. When they blew it at Tynecastle for 4th 🤣🤣. Naismith already has one over them and it’s going to be pleasing watching them crumble again when LJ inevitably goes on his customary losing streak.  Quite where they get their confidence is a mystery. Do they still have that relic Stevenson at LB ? And lost Nisbet too. And they still have that failure in goals. Christ on a bike they are some breed. 

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Ricardo Quaresma
11 hours ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

It's tinpot as ****. I'd prefer we just took the fine.

 

Edit. I'd actually prefer we just hired a qualified manager.

 

I don't think many people care what you think, pal

 

Like to give it a rest and get behind the team?

 

11 hours ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Surely the dimwits can work out what's happening behind the scenes :lol:

 

We're in Europe and Naisy doesn't have the badges

 

The media and thick Hearts fans are going to ask the same questions and they're going to get the same answer until we're out of Europe 

 

Quite; it's really not complicated

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49 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:


not so long ago they were wanting Johnson shot. Now he’s the bees knees 🤣🤣 

they are laughing at us lol. When they blew it at Tynecastle for 4th 🤣🤣. Naismith already has one over them and it’s going to be pleasing watching them crumble again when LJ inevitably goes on his customary losing streak.  Quite where they get their confidence is a mystery. Do they still have that relic Stevenson at LB ? And lost Nisbet too. And they still have that failure in goals. Christ on a bike they are some breed. 

🤣

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Ricardo Quaresma
11 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Genuinely is no different to how they were doing it towards the end of last season. I’m amazed so many are getting into a tizzy over this.

 

And not just our own fans, plenty comments under those videos saying we’ll be heading for bottom 6 or relegation. Absolutely fine by me to be written off to be honest, we’re better when underestimated.

 

EDIT: Prime example…

 

 

Forum run by a midden supporter

 

10 hours ago, allymonty said:

That video doesn't reassure me. Whether or not it's 'just for the cameras' or UEFA or whoever it's just messy. If we start badly this will not end well I fear. Wish we had just got a decent, qualified manager with a strong coaching team behind him.

 

F that, like who, some guaranteed arse who would just F everything up?

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Ricardo Quaresma
10 hours ago, Orkney Hearts said:

Why not from the beginning say Mcavoy is interim Head Coach to comply with our participation in European Football, this will be reviewed on our exit from the competition?

The current spin does look unprofessional, Naismith was front man in all press interviews last 7 games , yes we all know he is in charge kidding on about it so we don’t get a fine has put everyone in an ackward position when questioned by media.

 

Well then, your scenario wouldn't change anything for the snowflakes who are scared of hibbys at work and can't handle their patter

 

It's not difficult to 'own' a hibby

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Ricardo Quaresma
8 hours ago, been here before said:

Going forward, thats a total ****in car crash.

 

Lets be honest, going foward  if that was a couple of members of the Hibs management team we'd be ****ing pishing ourselves going forward, and ripping it to shreds. And quite rightly too going forward.

 

Who cares about hibs? They're the shit on our shoes

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Ricardo Quaresma
1 hour ago, 1971fozzy said:

I can’t see him cringing anywhere. But you can ? he is just playing the party line. I’m sure he is just fine with it despite what you say, and he is sleeping just fine. It’s seriously not a big deal - seriously it isn’t. And I have no idea why the very tiny deluded few think it is 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Absolutely; Naismith is no shrinking violet and never has been

 

He is resolute when it comes to doing whatever he does

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Ricardo Quaresma
1 hour ago, 1971fozzy said:

not so long ago they were wanting Johnson shot. Now he’s the bees knees 🤣🤣 

they are laughing at us lol. When they blew it at Tynecastle for 4th 🤣🤣. Naismith already has one over them and it’s going to be pleasing watching them crumble again when LJ inevitably goes on his customary losing streak.  Quite where they get their confidence is a mystery. Do they still have that relic Stevenson at LB ? And lost Nisbet too. And they still have that failure in goals. Christ on a bike they are some breed. 

 

They just made hanlon captain

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been here before
34 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

Who cares about hibs? They're the shit on our shoes

 

miss-the-point.png.5132c475e05c76faabdd372ac480da99.png

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Ricardo Quaresma
57 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

 

 

Right back at you, they're the shit on our shoes; irrelevant

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A_A wehatethehibs

Hearts have appointed a young Scottish former international, one of the best players of his generation Naismith. Represented his country 51 times with distinction. Now been a coach with Steve Clarke as well.
 

Over the 150 years of football history, this is a completely normal appointment.

 

It’s these oppressive new UEFA rules which should be called into question. “Shadow coaching” what a ****ing joke that whole concept is? A fine for nothing? 2 of our other coaches have their license so that should be it covered.
 

As a nation, fans of other clubs should be supporting the appointment of Naismith rather than trying to point and laugh at Hearts. Hearts have done absolutely the right thing, believing in a young Scottish coaching talent. This badges rubbish is a UEFA-caused problem.
 

If a young manager is working alongside 2 Pro license holders, and is in the process of obtaining his, that should suffice. But we’ve had to do all this shite to avoid a laughable joke of a “fine” aka shakedown from a proven corrupt organisation. 

 

 

Edited by A_A wehatethehibs
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1 minute ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Hearts have appointed a young Scottish former international, one of the best players of his generation. Represented his country 51 times with distinction. Now been a coach with Steve Clarke as well.
 

Over the 150 years of football history, this is a completely normal appointment.

 

It’s these oppressive new UEFA rules which should be called into question. “Shadow coaching” what a ****ing joke that whole concept is? A fine for nothing? 2 of our other coaches have their license so that should be it covered.
 

As a nation, fans of other clubs should be supporting the appointment of Naismith rather than trying to point and laugh at Hearts. Hearts have done absolutely the right thing, believing in a young Scottish coaching talent. This badges rubbish is a UEFA-caused problem.
 

If a young manager is working alongside 2 Pro license holders, and is in the process of obtaining his, that should suffice. But we’ve had to do all this shite to avoid a laughable joke of a “fine” aka shakedown from a proven corrupt organisation. 

 

 


:spoton:

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11 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Hearts have appointed a young Scottish former international, one of the best players of his generation Naismith. Represented his country 51 times with distinction. Now been a coach with Steve Clarke as well.
 

Over the 150 years of football history, this is a completely normal appointment.

 

It’s these oppressive new UEFA rules which should be called into question. “Shadow coaching” what a ****ing joke that whole concept is? A fine for nothing? 2 of our other coaches have their license so that should be it covered.
 

As a nation, fans of other clubs should be supporting the appointment of Naismith rather than trying to point and laugh at Hearts. Hearts have done absolutely the right thing, believing in a young Scottish coaching talent. This badges rubbish is a UEFA-caused problem.
 

If a young manager is working alongside 2 Pro license holders, and is in the process of obtaining his, that should suffice. But we’ve had to do all this shite to avoid a laughable joke of a “fine” aka shakedown from a proven corrupt organisation. 

 

 

Great post. Well said. 👌

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8 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Hearts have appointed a young Scottish former international, one of the best players of his generation. Represented his country 51 times with distinction. Now been a coach with Steve Clarke as well.
 

Over the 150 years of football history, this is a completely normal appointment.

 

It’s these oppressive new UEFA rules which should be called into question. “Shadow coaching” what a ****ing joke that whole concept is? A fine for nothing? 2 of our other coaches have their license so that should be it covered.
 

As a nation, fans of other clubs should be supporting the appointment of Naismith rather than trying to point and laugh at Hearts. Hearts have done absolutely the right thing, believing in a young Scottish coaching talent. This badges rubbish is a UEFA-caused problem.
 

If a young manager is working alongside 2 Pro license holders, and is in the process of obtaining his, that should suffice. But we’ve had to do all this shite to avoid a laughable joke of a “fine” aka shakedown from a proven corrupt organisation. 

 

 

Nailed it. Id go further and and sah the license is a pike of shite anyway.

 

Why do you need it in the first place?

 

They're not doctors, or even plumbers or electricians.  Why does a guy who has been in professional football for 23 years need some other guy to tell him how tonset up a drill then give him a bit of paper?

 

Ive got a guid story about JJ, McGlynn and the pro license which i canny be arsed typing on phone but suffice to say the thing is a farce

 

Its a money excercise and nowt more.

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13 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Hearts have appointed a young Scottish former international, one of the best players of his generation Naismith. Represented his country 51 times with distinction. Now been a coach with Steve Clarke as well.
 

Over the 150 years of football history, this is a completely normal appointment.

 

It’s these oppressive new UEFA rules which should be called into question. “Shadow coaching” what a ****ing joke that whole concept is? A fine for nothing? 2 of our other coaches have their license so that should be it covered.
 

As a nation, fans of other clubs should be supporting the appointment of Naismith rather than trying to point and laugh at Hearts. Hearts have done absolutely the right thing, believing in a young Scottish coaching talent. This badges rubbish is a UEFA-caused problem.
 

If a young manager is working alongside 2 Pro license holders, and is in the process of obtaining his, that should suffice. But we’ve had to do all this shite to avoid a laughable joke of a “fine” aka shakedown from a proven corrupt organisation. 

 

 

Spot on , mate. What happened in bygone days?  People were naturally promoted or nurtured into managerial roles through know-how and working alongside people who came before them.  
 

Who’s to judge (from afar) whether Naismith is capable of being a manager/coach?  You’ve got average coaches all over the place these days boasting about having an A, B, C or Z license but will probably never come close to people like Naismith with experience across the board and a grounding. 

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KyleLafferty

Soon as we are out Europe Naisy will be declared head coach. It’s not hard to wrap your head around it.

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Horatio Caine

Dearie me. The problem is not with the club or the way they have structured this. The problem is with people making a meal of it, either because they are hard of thinking, Hibbys or shit stirrers.  

Can't believe people are still going on about it.

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1 minute ago, Horatio Caine said:

Dearie me. The problem is not with the club or the way they have structured this. The problem is with people making a meal of it, either because they are hard of thinking, Hibbys or shit stirrers.  

Can't believe people are still going on about it.


Yip

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I still think it's all an act.

 

Wouldn't be surprised if they use an old Romanov piece and leave out bowls of peanuts in the media gallery.

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It's all pretty simple really when he gets his badges his role changes.The worst thing that happened is McAvoy saying to the press I have final say I call the shots.I don't know why he thought that was a good idea to be honest as all it done was muddy the waters and for some fans that's what they will just see now 

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2 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

It's all pretty simple really when he gets his badges his role changes.The worst thing that happened is McAvoy saying to the press I have final say I call the shots.I don't know why he thought that was a good idea to be honest as all it done was muddy the waters and for some fans that's what they will just see now 

McAvoy does but I think he'd let Naismith have the final say anyway, Like what people have said above. Naismith is our manager. We all know it. 

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4 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

It's all pretty simple really when he gets his badges his role changes.The worst thing that happened is McAvoy saying to the press I have final say I call the shots.I don't know why he thought that was a good idea to be honest as all it done was muddy the waters and for some fans that's what they will just see now 


I’d imagine they knew they’d be questioned on it and he’s the head coach and he would be expected to make those decisions. 

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Dennis Reynolds
7 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

I don't think many people care what you think, pal

 

Like to give it a rest and get behind the team?

 

Oh sorry, did I upset you? 

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8 hours ago, Zico said:

Of course he knows that. It’s not a great look but the support and the board (and presumably, Naismith!) wanted a manager without his pro licence so that’s the way it is. 

 

Some of the support. I, like you, didn't. All it was met with when voiced was "what does an experienced manager look like" blah blah. Now everyone knows the answer - someone who doesn't have to pretend they look after the transfers and put the cones out.

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Byyy The Light
1 hour ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Hearts have appointed a young Scottish former international, one of the best players of his generation Naismith. Represented his country 51 times with distinction. Now been a coach with Steve Clarke as well.
 

Over the 150 years of football history, this is a completely normal appointment.

 

It’s these oppressive new UEFA rules which should be called into question. “Shadow coaching” what a ****ing joke that whole concept is? A fine for nothing? 2 of our other coaches have their license so that should be it covered.
 

As a nation, fans of other clubs should be supporting the appointment of Naismith rather than trying to point and laugh at Hearts. Hearts have done absolutely the right thing, believing in a young Scottish coaching talent. This badges rubbish is a UEFA-caused problem.
 

If a young manager is working alongside 2 Pro license holders, and is in the process of obtaining his, that should suffice. But we’ve had to do all this shite to avoid a laughable joke of a “fine” aka shakedown from a proven corrupt organisation. 

 

 

 

Top post. It's a money making scheme by UEFA pure and simple. Brings in millions every year.

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25 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

Oh sorry, did I upset you? 

People on JKB are upset about this setup because they now don't know who to start hyper critical threads about when the season starts.

 

It's too confusing for them.

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1 hour ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Hearts have appointed a young Scottish former international, one of the best players of his generation Naismith. Represented his country 51 times with distinction. Now been a coach with Steve Clarke as well.
 

Over the 150 years of football history, this is a completely normal appointment.

 

It’s these oppressive new UEFA rules which should be called into question. “Shadow coaching” what a ****ing joke that whole concept is? A fine for nothing? 2 of our other coaches have their license so that should be it covered.
 

As a nation, fans of other clubs should be supporting the appointment of Naismith rather than trying to point and laugh at Hearts. Hearts have done absolutely the right thing, believing in a young Scottish coaching talent. This badges rubbish is a UEFA-caused problem.
 

If a young manager is working alongside 2 Pro license holders, and is in the process of obtaining his, that should suffice. But we’ve had to do all this shite to avoid a laughable joke of a “fine” aka shakedown from a proven corrupt organisation. 

 

 

Nailed it

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Dennis Reynolds
1 minute ago, spacerjoe said:

People on JKB are upset about this setup because they now don't know who to start hyper critical threads about when the season starts.

 

It's too confusing for them.

 

Forrest is the real man in charge. A triple bluff. 

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Neverforgetfiveone
8 hours ago, Gorgieshed said:

I wanted Naismith as boss when I wasn't aware of all this potential nonsense. We should have appointed someone else given the circumstances!

 

You can see Naismith is cringing inside with every word he says about the set up. He knows that everyone else knows he is in charge but is forced to keep up this embarrassing charade! 

If it’s that bad he should have been honourable about it and said that he couldn’t take it because he wasn’t qualified! 
 

Fact is - he’s going to be the manager. 
 

Even if this situation goes tits up, Frankie will get the bullet and Naismith will be made Head Coach when he has the badges. 
 

My hope is that it works short term and gives Naismith the time to sort out his qualifications! 
 

Our next manager will be Steven Naismith - get odds on it! 

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8 hours ago, 1971fozzy said:


Utter garbage. He’s said he’s fine with it so where are you getting this from ? Or is it just your thinking ? Jesus wept , no wonder some think your not a hearts supporter

Some think I'm not a Hearts supporter? Where and when have you seen this.

 

I'm also entitled to my opinion and no need to say I'm deluded in your previous post.

 

I think that interview comes across that Naismith is really uncomfortable with what he is being told to say!

 

Your telling me that he is happy with the way his first job as a manager is going? Or would he rather be named manager and be able to give interviews like any normal situation?

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14 minutes ago, Neverforgetfiveone said:

If it’s that bad he should have been honourable about it and said that he couldn’t take it because he wasn’t qualified! 
 

Fact is - he’s going to be the manager. 
 

Even if this situation goes tits up, Frankie will get the bullet and Naismith will be made Head Coach when he has the badges. 
 

My hope is that it works short term and gives Naismith the time to sort out his qualifications! 
 

Our next manager will be Steven Naismith - get odds on it! 

That's the issue here though.

 

If it all goes wrong, he gets given the job permanently and McAvoy is sacked.

 

So we are stuck with the person (we and the whole world knows) has been in charge and got it wrong in the first place. Its a mess.

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davemclaren
5 minutes ago, Gorgieshed said:

That's the issue here though.

 

If it all goes wrong, he gets given the job permanently and McAvoy is sacked.

 

So we are stuck with the person (we and the whole world knows) has been in charge and got it wrong in the first place. It's a mess.

🥸

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henrysmithsgloves

I must admit I liked the change to the players when Naismith was put in charge 😃 one thing thank fekk he's no cathro! ❤️❤️G❤️

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Bazzas right boot
9 hours ago, Gorgieshed said:

I wanted Naismith as boss when I wasn't aware of all this potential nonsense. We should have appointed someone else given the circumstances!

 

You can see Naismith is cringing inside with every word he says about the set up. He knows that everyone else knows he is in charge but is forced to keep up this embarrassing charade! 

 

 

So you didn't want Naismith then.

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Bazzas right boot
11 minutes ago, Gorgieshed said:

Some think I'm not a Hearts supporter? Where and when have you seen this.

 

I'm also entitled to my opinion and no need to say I'm deluded in your previous post.

 

I think that interview comes across that Naismith is really uncomfortable with what he is being told to say!

 

Your telling me that he is happy with the way his first job as a manager is going? Or would he rather be named manager and be able to give interviews like any normal situation?

 

He'll be ecstatic, it's a great first job.

 

He'd also be aware of the technicalities that meant he had to take the job this way.

 

Untwist your knickers.

 

 

 

 

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The Old Tolbooth
2 hours ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Hearts have appointed a young Scottish former international, one of the best players of his generation Naismith. Represented his country 51 times with distinction. Now been a coach with Steve Clarke as well.
 

Over the 150 years of football history, this is a completely normal appointment.

 

It’s these oppressive new UEFA rules which should be called into question. “Shadow coaching” what a ****ing joke that whole concept is? A fine for nothing? 2 of our other coaches have their license so that should be it covered.
 

As a nation, fans of other clubs should be supporting the appointment of Naismith rather than trying to point and laugh at Hearts. Hearts have done absolutely the right thing, believing in a young Scottish coaching talent. This badges rubbish is a UEFA-caused problem.
 

If a young manager is working alongside 2 Pro license holders, and is in the process of obtaining his, that should suffice. But we’ve had to do all this shite to avoid a laughable joke of a “fine” aka shakedown from a proven corrupt organisation. 

 

 

 

What an excellent post mate :clap:, nails every point anyone should need to know about the situation, I honestly have no idea why fans are using this topic to get their knickers wet over, it's almost like we've signed some players and they can't rant on that thread any more, so they need somewhere else to vent their spleen, it's all rather pathetic. 

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I’m pretty sure when the 3 of them were taken into McKinlays office and told what the optics were going to look like and why, the first thing Naismith would have said was ‘Aye but that’s not the way it’s really working, right ?’

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been here before
1 hour ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

Oh sorry, did I upset you? 

 

Just dingy him. Looks like he's just been spamming about battering headlessly into random posts trying to be all edgy.

 

Funny though in its own unintentional way.

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I’ve seen guys in building trade management with plastic tickets and course qualifications coming out their ears, some of them couldn’t manage a fish supper on a cold day, they rely on craftsmen and labourers with years of experience to help them out. So, these licenses are just money making schemes, ok, we will make sure we have people who are licensed but the point of this ramble of mine is this, you can’t buy experience, you have to do the years and learn how to play the game, SN has done this and all this charade is just that, a time buying exercise till Steven has his tickets.

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Pasquale for King
2 hours ago, TheBigO said:

Nailed it. Id go further and and sah the license is a pike of shite anyway.

 

Why do you need it in the first place?

 

They're not doctors, or even plumbers or electricians.  Why does a guy who has been in professional football for 23 years need some other guy to tell him how tonset up a drill then give him a bit of paper?

 

Ive got a guid story about JJ, McGlynn and the pro license which i canny be arsed typing on phone but suffice to say the thing is a farce

 

Its a money excercise and nowt more.

You are correct and could even be against the law as restriction of trade tbh.

As far as I’m aware you don’t need any qualifications to be PM of the UK or EU President, but you do to be manager of Livingston in Europe for example 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️🤪?!?!

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Pasquale for King
2 hours ago, KyleLafferty said:

Soon as we are out Europe Naisy will be declared head coach. It’s not hard to wrap your head around it.

I was just going to say that 👍🏽

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55 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

Forrest is the real man in charge. A triple bluff. 

And he plays on the wing in his spare time?

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7 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I was just going to say that 👍🏽

 

Will he be demoted again when we skoosh 3rd next year?

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Pasquale for King
2 minutes ago, innerjambo said:

 

Will he be demoted again when we skoosh 3rd next year?

Depends on where SN is with his badges and the relevant requirements of UEFAs ridiculous rules.  

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Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Depends on where SN is with his badges and the relevant requirements of UEFAs ridiculous rules.  

 

It's all part of the fun.

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1 hour ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

Forrest is the real man in charge. A triple bluff. 

Sorry but It’s the guy in charge of the hotel, he’s worked in Europe.

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1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

You are correct and could even be against the law as restriction of trade tbh.

As far as I’m aware you don’t need any qualifications to be PM of the UK or EU President, but you do to be manager of Livingston in Europe for example 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️🤪?!?!

It's mental and I can't believe more isn't being said about THAT.  That's the issue, not us skirting it, or whatever.

 

Ok, at laptop now! Anecdote! 

 

JJ/Hearts sent John McGlynn to do his UEFA pro back in the day.  This would be around the time of the school teacher brigade, Roxburgh etc, and I can't remember the name of the bloke who ran the course at the time.  But basically towards the end of the course, John found out he was due to be failed!!  Now, he's on the course being shown how to do things alongside amateurs, by a guy who himself is technically an amateur coach or at least part-time.  Most of what he was being shown was heehaw like how we would train our professional players etc.  JJ got wind of this and got on the phone to the guy and tore strips off him.  "You're telling me, a professional coach, whose youth team have just won XYZ, and who has produced this list of players for my first team canny pass you shitey wee course... just try and fail him and you'll have me to deal wi etc etc etc...."!

 

John got his certificate.

 

Now the thing is, not much has actually changed.  It's an expensive, arduous tick-box excercise which takes guys out of their day-jobs and for a lot of bloke teaches them nothing.  Naismith has said it and I've seen others say it.  It can be very difficult to do the course alongside still playing fulltime at a good level.  Other than the time commitment, Naisy actually said he felt it distracted his focus when he did his initial courses at Everton as he was learning things which weren't what he was doing in practice each day.  Now that won't be the case for everyone, but the fact is it's now mightily difficult for a professional football to go straight in to management, whether they're ready or not, they need this shitty piece of paper.

 

I'm not belittling the course, really I'm not, I'm sure there is value in the learning - I'm a massive one on training for the sake of knowledge in all fields.  I'm sure it's well run etc etc - but it's also just actually a school of thought.  Making it mandatory with punishment attached and terms such as "shadow coaching" are hugely archaic and highly typical of the way football is governed both in Scotland but unfortunately by the larger governing bodies too.

 

So having a go at Hearts?  Na.  No way.  We decided Naisy is the guy who will drive our success.  Whether we're right or not is irrelevant.  He's the guy we want.  A bit of ****ing paper saying he's been shown by a grown-up how to set his drills up shouldn't dictate that choice in any way shape or form.  There are important bits of paper such as PVGs etc if he's working with kids, young people or vulnerable adults etc, and people in football should need these sorts of things where relevant.  But your 25 metre coaching badge sewn on your training top by your mum to be able to coach Hearts?  Eff the eff off.

 

Not a Hearts problem.

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Ricardo Quaresma
3 hours ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

Oh sorry, did I upset you? 

 

No chance; scratched record, though :)

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A_A wehatethehibs
34 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Why are people still voting in the poll 😂


Another vote for Marti, us “Marti in” supporters are playing the long game, believe 

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