Waterboy Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 A one stop shop now that it's confirmed we'll be in Europe next season. I'm working on the assumption that Celtic beat Inverness (hopefully tempting fate :)) Hearts will enter the Europa Conference League in the 3rd qualifying round, as an unseeded team. Key Dates: Q3 first leg: 10 August Q3 second leg: 17 August If we progress... Playoff first leg: 24 August Playoff second leg: 31 August If we progress... group stages commence 21 September. Possible Opponents: The draw for Q3 will be made before Q2 ties have been played. It's therefore possible we will draw the winner of a Q2 tie, and have 2 possible opponents with the winner still to be determined. There are still some domestic leagues and cups to be finalised, but at this moment in time, these are the sides who will be seeded and are therefore possible opponents. This assumes that all of the seeded sides in Q2 win their ties - so some could be replaced by supposedly poorer sides - those in italics are the sides that it's been assumed will qualify from Q2. Club Brugge Belgium AZ Alkmaar Netherlands AA Gent Belgium Dinamo Kiev Ukraine Partizan Belgrade Serbia PAOK Greece Maccabi Tel-Aviv Israel Viktoria Plzen Czech Rep Bodo/Glimt Norway Lech Poznan Poland Hapoel Beer-Sheva Israel Djurgardens Sweden APOEL Nicosia Cyprus Besiktas Turkey NK Rijeka Croatia FC Arouca Portugal Hearts Coefficient: Hearts will enter with a coefficient of 7.28, which is the 'Scotland' coefficient, based on the performance of Scottish teams over the past 5 seasons. Hearts actual coefficient is less than the 'Scotland' coefficient at 4, and so we are given the higher 'Scotland' coefficient. Info on how this was earned, and the coefficients of other Scottish teams for 23/24: If Hearts are eliminated in Q3, which is a real possibility, we will earn 2 pts, taking our total for the 24/25 season to 6. If we made it to the Playoff round and were eliminated, we would earn 2.5 pts taking our total to 6.5. Both scenarios would likely result in us again being given the 'Scotland' coefficient if we qualify for Europe in season 24/25. The 'Scotland' coefficient is calculated based on a slightly different method to how the individual club coefficients are calculated, and so won't tie in with the figures you see above. For season 24/25, the points earned from Scottish sides during the upcoming season will replace the points earned in 18/19. Scottish sides therefore need to improve on 6.75 if they want to improve their ranking (and European places that come as a result), having only scored 3.5 in the season just past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaShango Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 Some heavy hitters in there that we would really struggle against, AZ for a start! Not sure on the abilities of the other sides but if we are to make it through we are going to need some shrewd recruitment and play an unbelievable game over 2 legs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiewave Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 None too promising. A reasonable-sized club and out most likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedBoy Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 Bring it on. Cannot wait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 7 minutes ago, ShedBoy said: Bring it on. Cannot wait Is the correct answer/statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john thomas Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 12 minutes ago, PapaShango said: Some heavy hitters in there that we would really struggle against, AZ for a start! Not sure on the abilities of the other sides but if we are to make it through we are going to need some shrewd recruitment and play an unbelievable game over 2 legs. Basically over 4 legs ? Qualifying round and play offs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwell Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 Heard of all these teams but apart from AZ no idea what standard they are . So I really don't know if we have a realistic chance against any of them or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxfee Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 22 minutes ago, Waterboy said: A one stop shop now that it's confirmed we'll be in Europe next season. I'm working on the assumption that Celtic beat Inverness (hopefully tempting fate :)) Hearts will enter the Europa Conference League in the 3rd qualifying round, as an unseeded team. Key Dates: Q3 first leg: 10 August Q3 second leg: 17 August If we progress... Playoff first leg: 24 August Playoff second leg: 31 August If we progress... group stages commence 21 September. Possible Opponents: The draw for Q3 will be made before Q2 ties have been played. It's therefore possible we will draw the winner of a Q2 tie, and have 2 possible opponents with the winner still to be determined. There are still some domestic leagues and cups to be finalised, but at this moment in time, these are the sides who will be seeded and are therefore possible opponents. This assumes that all of the seeded sides in Q2 win their ties - so some could be replaced by supposedly poorer sides - those in italics are the sides that it's been assumed will qualify from Q2. Club Brugge Belgium AZ Alkmaar Netherlands AA Gent Belgium Dinamo Kiev Ukraine Partizan Belgrade Serbia PAOK Greece Maccabi Tel-Aviv Israel Viktoria Plzen Czech Rep Bodo/Glimt Norway Lech Poznan Poland Hapoel Beer-Sheva Israel Djurgardens Sweden APOEL Nicosia Cyprus Besiktas Turkey NK Rijeka Croatia FC Arouca Portugal Hearts Coefficient: Hearts will enter with a coefficient of 7.28, which is the 'Scotland' coefficient, based on the performance of Scottish teams over the past 5 seasons. Hearts actual coefficient is less than the 'Scotland' coefficient at 4, and so we are given the higher 'Scotland' coefficient. Info on how this was earned, and the coefficients of other Scottish teams for 23/24: If Hearts are eliminated in Q3, which is a real possibility, we will earn 2 pts, taking our total for the 24/25 season to 6. If we made it to the Playoff round and were eliminated, we would earn 2.5 pts taking our total to 6.5. Both scenarios would likely result in us again being given the 'Scotland' coefficient if we qualify for Europe in season 24/25. The 'Scotland' coefficient is calculated based on a slightly different method to how the individual club coefficients are calculated, and so won't tie in with the figures you see above. For season 24/25, the points earned from Scottish sides during the upcoming season will replace the points earned in 18/19. Scottish sides therefore need to improve on 6.75 if they want to improve their ranking (and European places that come as a result), having only scored 3.5 in the season just past. Wow - you got a PHD in this? I’m impressed. No Mickey Mouse teams then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italian Lambretta Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 Can someone confirm if we are unseeded do we play at home first then away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Sanchez Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 I thought we'd be seeded in the third round qualifying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italian Lambretta Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 4 minutes ago, Rockwell said: Heard of all these teams but apart from AZ no idea what standard they are . So I really don't know if we have a realistic chance against any of them or not I’m sure club Brugge recently played in the champions league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyCant Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Rockwell said: Heard of all these teams but apart from AZ no idea what standard they are . So I really don't know if we have a realistic chance against any of them or not Look at it this way. I’d probably fancy Celtic and Rangers to knock most of them out over 2 legs . Theyre mostly better than us but in some cases it’s not a huge gulf and we’d have a chance if we were at our very best with an enhanced squad from where it’s at now. The play off round after that we’d be sure to meet very top quality and getting to the groups would be next to impossible Edited May 29, 2023 by JimmyCant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterboy Posted May 29, 2023 Author Share Posted May 29, 2023 6 minutes ago, Rick Sanchez said: I thought we'd be seeded in the third round qualifying We'll likely be one of the poorest teams in Q3 in terms of coefficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 11 minutes ago, Italian Lambretta said: Can someone confirm if we are unseeded do we play at home first then away? Doesn't work that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShedBoy Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianajones Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 Tough games. Need to make sure third is a stick for next year. Think it will be tbh. No way Aberdeen will cope with what we had to deal with this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB-14 Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 Here is a more extensive list of potentials but of course a lot depends on round two as if an unseeded club beats a seeded club at that stage then we could get very fortunate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasAndy Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 (edited) I'd like to think we will be a bit better equipped than last year. If we can keep our team from Saturday plus Halkett, Boyce and Beni, plus 3 good signings then I would be confident against a Zurich level team. Edited May 29, 2023 by TexasAndy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterboy Posted May 29, 2023 Author Share Posted May 29, 2023 1 minute ago, DB-14 said: Here is a more extensive list of potentials but of course a lot depends on round two as if an unseeded club beats a seeded club at that stage then we could get very fortunate. Depends which way you look at it. If an unseeded team manages to beat a seeded team then they must be pretty good....just don't have the coefficient they possibly deserve. Think that list is also projecting who will take the remaining European places from domestic leagues and cups, so could change in that respect too. Either way, not many teams there I fancy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianajones Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 Is there any chance we could get Hibs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB-14 Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 1 minute ago, Waterboy said: Depends which way you look at it. If an unseeded team manages to beat a seeded team then they must be pretty good....just don't have the coefficient they possibly deserve. Think that list is also projecting who will take the remaining European places from domestic leagues and cups, so could change in that respect too. Either way, not many teams there I fancy! True for reference here is the projected second round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterboy Posted May 29, 2023 Author Share Posted May 29, 2023 1 minute ago, indianajones said: Is there any chance we could get Hibs? Nope, kept apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB-14 Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 Just now, indianajones said: Is there any chance we could get Hibs? Clubs from same countries cannot play each other until quarter final stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 People might to start lowering their group football expectations. Unless we get an incredibly lucky draw the level of team we are likely to face will be too strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianajones Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 5 minutes ago, Waterboy said: Nope, kept apart. 4 minutes ago, DB-14 said: Clubs from same countries cannot play each other until quarter final stage. That's a shame. Would pretty much be a by into the next round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddiepolio3 Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 Just a thought, now we're in Europe, one less round in the league Cup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB-14 Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 Just now, Eddiepolio3 said: Just a thought, now we're in Europe, one less round in the league Cup? Yep, no group stage to worry about again thankfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo61 Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 35 minutes ago, Baxfee said: Wow - you got a PHD in this? I’m impressed. No Mickey Mouse teams then? Just us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterboy Posted May 29, 2023 Author Share Posted May 29, 2023 Just now, Jambo61 said: Just us! Didn't want to be the one to say it 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaside Dave Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 Portugal or Croatia for a sunny session. Or Israel to see Jesus and the disciples Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italian Lambretta Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 59 minutes ago, Seaside Dave said: Portugal or Croatia for a sunny session. Or Israel to see Jesus and the disciples Tel Aviv would be amazing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peakybunnet Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 2 hours ago, ShedBoy said: Bring it on. Cannot wait 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italian Lambretta Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 Just noticed Besiktas are there as well. Another trip to Instanbul would be most enjoyable 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negan Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 I think we would beat teams like djurgardens and Victoria Plzen with our current team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilnunb Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Eddiepolio3 said: Just a thought, now we're in Europe, one less round in the league Cup? 1 hour ago, DB-14 said: Yep, no group stage to worry about again thankfully. Worked out great last time 😐 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4marsbars Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 2 hours ago, Waterboy said: A one stop shop now that it's confirmed we'll be in Europe next season. I'm working on the assumption that Celtic beat Inverness (hopefully tempting fate :)) Hearts will enter the Europa Conference League in the 3rd qualifying round, as an unseeded team. Thanks for all that detail. I was wondering, someone posted through the week that the team entering in the 2nd qualifying round (probably Hibs, could still be us) gets an extra round of games (obviously) but would be seeded, and keep that seeding through rounds 3 and 4. More rounds against slightly easier teams. Is that correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboross Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 17 minutes ago, Negan said: I think we would beat teams like djurgardens and Victoria Plzen with our current team. I'd be surprised if we did. Plzen were in the group stages of the CL this season, admittedly they did lose every game but did reasonably well against Bayern and Barca in the home games. Djurgardens topped their Conference League group, undefeated, with double the points of Gent who were second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 Hopefully get a team on way down just been robbed of their star players or got chronic injury problems. You never know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterboy Posted May 29, 2023 Author Share Posted May 29, 2023 18 minutes ago, 4marsbars said: Thanks for all that detail. I was wondering, someone posted through the week that the team entering in the 2nd qualifying round (probably Hibs, could still be us) gets an extra round of games (obviously) but would be seeded, and keep that seeding through rounds 3 and 4. More rounds against slightly easier teams. Is that correct? Nope. The team entering in Q2 (Hibs assuming Celtic win the cup) will be seeded with a coefficient of 7.28 - they will face an unseeded team with a coefficient of less than 7 (roughly, still tbc). Because the Q3 draw is done before Q2 has finished, they don't know what team will progress and therefore don't know what coefficient they'll have, and therefore can't designate seeded/unseeded. So what they do is they assume that all seeded teams progress from Q2 and use their coefficient. If an unseeded team was to then progress, they benefit from carrying through their opponents higher coefficient. In Hibs case, if they win in Q2, they will definitely be unseeded in Q3, same as Hearts. If they were to lose, the team that beat them will carry through Hibs coefficient of 7.28, so again would be unseeded in Q3. If an unseeded team pulled off a real scalp and beat one of the big boys in Q2 (such as Club Brugge), they would benefit as they would carry through Brugge's high coefficient (54.00) and end up being seeded in Q3, despite being unseeded in Q2. Those sort of scenarios are unlikely however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB-14 Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 (edited) This Twitter page may be useful for explaining different scenarios and keeping track of who we could face. Edited May 29, 2023 by DB-14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peteg75 Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 58 minutes ago, Negan said: I think we would beat teams like djurgardens and Victoria Plzen with our current team. And they will think the same about us. Nothing is sure. I'd rather avoid teams like them tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveandal Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 19 minutes ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said: Hopefully get a team on way down just been robbed of their star players or got chronic injury problems. You never know This is always possible. There could easily be well kent teams in horrible situations and are there for the taking. Zurich were a little like that. On the other hand there can be unknown teams who are bankrolled or have a real crop of top players and we as a fan base underestimate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 5 minutes ago, Daveandal said: This is always possible. There could easily be well kent teams in horrible situations and are there for the taking. Zurich were a little like that. On the other hand there can be unknown teams who are bankrolled or have a real crop of top players and we as a fan base underestimate them. Absolutely, names on paper for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomuzz Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 To be honest I think at this stage we just need to enjoy it for what it is, a chance to pit ourselves against a good European side. History has shown that we have struggled against these so called “easier teams” just as much as we have the better ones. So just take every tie as it comes and play our game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flimsy Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 3 hours ago, JimmyCant said: Look at it this way. I’d probably fancy Celtic and Rangers to knock most of them out over 2 legs . Theyre mostly better than us but in some cases it’s not a huge gulf and we’d have a chance if we were at our very best with an enhanced squad from where it’s at now. The play off round after that we’d be sure to meet very top quality and getting to the groups would be next to impossible Not necessarily. The play-off round draw is before the 3rd qualifying round is played. If Hearts defeated a team that would have been seeded in the play-off round we would take their place and have a, theoretically, easier tie. For example, the draw might be AZ Alkmaar or Hearts vs unseeded team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterboy Posted May 29, 2023 Author Share Posted May 29, 2023 3 minutes ago, Flimsy said: Not necessarily. The play-off round draw is before the 3rd qualifying round is played. If Hearts defeated a team that would have been seeded in the play-off round we would take their place and have a, theoretically, easier tie. For example, the draw might be AZ Alkmaar or Hearts vs unseeded team. Yes, I'd say just about our only hope of reaching the groups. Draw a team in Q3 that would only just have the coefficient to be seeded in the Playoff, and then hopefully draw one of the worst unseeded teams in the Playoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4marsbars Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 44 minutes ago, Waterboy said: Nope. The team entering in Q2 (Hibs assuming Celtic win the cup) will be seeded with a coefficient of 7.28 - they will face an unseeded team with a coefficient of less than 7 (roughly, still tbc). Because the Q3 draw is done before Q2 has finished, they don't know what team will progress and therefore don't know what coefficient they'll have, and therefore can't designate seeded/unseeded. So what they do is they assume that all seeded teams progress from Q2 and use their coefficient. If an unseeded team was to then progress, they benefit from carrying through their opponents higher coefficient. In Hibs case, if they win in Q2, they will definitely be unseeded in Q3, same as Hearts. If they were to lose, the team that beat them will carry through Hibs coefficient of 7.28, so again would be unseeded in Q3. If an unseeded team pulled off a real scalp and beat one of the big boys in Q2 (such as Club Brugge), they would benefit as they would carry through Brugge's high coefficient (54.00) and end up being seeded in Q3, despite being unseeded in Q2. Those sort of scenarios are unlikely however. Thanks for taking the time to explain this. Much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyCant Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Flimsy said: Not necessarily. The play-off round draw is before the 3rd qualifying round is played. If Hearts defeated a team that would have been seeded in the play-off round we would take their place and have a, theoretically, easier tie. For example, the draw might be AZ Alkmaar or Hearts vs unseeded team. True. So ideally we want a seeded team towards the bottom of the list who have drawn another minnow in the play off round Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMJ_1874 Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 3 hours ago, Italian Lambretta said: Just noticed Besiktas are there as well. Another trip to Instanbul would be most enjoyable 😎 I’m sure they’re the only team that has a stadium in the centre of Istanbul. All the others are in the outskirts. Besiktas are not too far from the just bar….. I think 🤔. Better to get them group stages though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 5 hours ago, ShedBoy said: Bring it on. Cannot wait Me too , shake the inferiority complex and get right in about who ever we are drawn against . What do we have to lose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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