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*** Official Livingston v Heart Of Midlothian thread ***


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Bazzas right boot
1 minute ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

D'you think he was on to something? Maybe not what he thought, but something?

 

No.

I never even considered racism. 

 

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Ricardo Quaresma
10 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

No.

I never even considered racism.

 

I excepted that

 

I reckon there's a few factors; Kuol's challenge on their keeper got his attention; would like to know what muir said to him

 

We all know muir's a bit off when reffing our games; I think he let that challenge go and in return let the challenge on Kuol in their box go, to even things up; some refs work like that and I don't agree with that; even collum doesn't work that way and he doesn't take malicious challenges lightly, probably his only good points

 

The high profile Kuol has and the fact that the Newcastle team are watching him may have had an influence too; I don't think muir wanted to be under that much scrutiny, so he seemed to keep his distance after this point

 

Just my observation and opinion

 

-

Edited by Ricardo Quaresma
typo
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Ex member of the SaS

Strange team selection as we had a far better chance of beating Livi than Sevco. If players were genuinely unavailable then fair enough but to save players for Sevco game is rather bizarre. Having said that on that pitch in those conditions a draw is not a disaster but we really should have won as we squandered a couple of really good chances. Hopefully when the new players get up to speed we will be winning more than losing and should cement third, as I can't see Livi keeping up a charge.

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RustyRightPeg
1 hour ago, KyleLafferty said:

Kio was fine yesterday. 


Yep. Minging game to be thrown into. Spent most of the day challenging for second balls due to the nature of it being a tennis match going back and forward above his head. 
 

There were far worse on the pitch, including Kingsley. One of his worst games in terms of distribution. Found touch more than he found anyone in maroon. 

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26 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Strange team selection as we had a far better chance of beating Livi than Sevco. If players were genuinely unavailable then fair enough but to save players for Sevco game is rather bizarre. Having said that on that pitch in those conditions a draw is not a disaster but we really should have won as we squandered a couple of really good chances. Hopefully when the new players get up to speed we will be winning more than losing and should cement third, as I can't see Livi keeping up a charge.

The impression I get is that had certain players played on Livi's awful surface, there was a chance they might not have been available to play on Wednesday.  And I think that the conditions, added to the pitch, and how Livi play, meant that it was always going to be an awful game where you came away feeling sorry for the ball.

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1 hour ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

Was VAR even available for this game?


Yes. There was a ‘var check complete’ comment for a penalty shout. 

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Thunder and Lightning
13 hours ago, jonesy said:

Englishman Jorge Grant was the only player booked for simulation despite several Livvy players going down for nothing. 

 

I'm quite frankly impressed that Muir has the time to attend KKK and SNP meetings.

 

Clearly booked because he is black.

 

SFA KKK

SFA KKK

 

Ultra's, you can have that one for free.

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22 hours ago, Mr Kipling said:

why he started today ahead of Snodgrass and Grant


There was an illness in the camp. Which has been repeated to death.
 

 

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19 hours ago, mitch41 said:

Well another shambles of an away game because that was painful to be at a game like that and watch 5 Hearts defenders, 2 midfielders being outnumbered & overrun, 3 strikers that never got any decent service. Yes the wee Livi manager knew how Hearts were going to play, although maybe not as poor, and got his tactics spot on. Sure Neilson can blame the wind, pitch, referee etc but it just is another 2 points dropped. 

hurray! here's Mitch. my favourite made up Octogenarian. 

 

great observations.

 

apologies I missed them old chum, but what were your observations post match after the cup win vs H1B5.....

 

oh, and the aberdeen game......the 1-0 win v st mirren, the H1B5 win in the league......the wins v killie and st J last month....

 

have gone through the match threads and can't seem to find them.....

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16 hours ago, jonesy said:

Englishman Jorge Grant was the only player booked for simulation despite several Livvy players going down for nothing. 

 

I'm quite frankly impressed that Muir has the time to attend KKK and SNP meetings.

I said I was going to let this drop but folk keep stirring the pot.

 

It's a problem of common ignorance that in order to be racist you have to be a cross-burning KKK member. Racism is far more insidious than that, whatever Muir's motivations.

 

Grant got booked not just because he was diving, but because he's actually really shit at diving and the refs see through it. It's not a skill I want to see us adopt in any case but diving is a skill and he hasn't got it. Boyle's dives are far more convincing at least.

 

Beyond that about the racism stuff, I'm just going to repeat that I made one comment in the middle of a match thread out of frustration and how I saw it. This keeps going because people keep throwing ignorant shite at me which is hard to let go without a response. If folk had left it at "naw it wisnae" this could have dropped by the final whistle rather than all the pearl clutching and bottle losing because someone said the r-word.

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2 hours ago, Chillidigits said:

Has anyone ever seen a good football match on an artificial surface ?

Pitz at porty any given wednesday evening, crackin game o 5's !

 

:greggy:

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5 hours ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Strange team selection as we had a far better chance of beating Livi than Sevco. If players were genuinely unavailable then fair enough but to save players for Sevco game is rather bizarre. Having said that on that pitch in those conditions a draw is not a disaster but we really should have won as we squandered a couple of really good chances. Hopefully when the new players get up to speed we will be winning more than losing and should cement third, as I can't see Livi keeping up a charge.

RN said pre-match, illness running through the squad, so changes were forced on him

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3 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

I said I was going to let this drop but folk keep stirring the pot.

 

It's a problem of common ignorance that in order to be racist you have to be a cross-burning KKK member. Racism is far more insidious than that, whatever Muir's motivations.

 

Grant got booked not just because he was diving, but because he's actually really shit at diving and the refs see through it. It's not a skill I want to see us adopt in any case but diving is a skill and he hasn't got it. Boyle's dives are far more convincing at least.

 

Beyond that about the racism stuff, I'm just going to repeat that I made one comment in the middle of a match thread out of frustration and how I saw it. This keeps going because people keep throwing ignorant shite at me which is hard to let go without a response. If folk had left it at "naw it wisnae" this could have dropped by the final whistle rather than all the pearl clutching and bottle losing because someone said the r-word.

It’s keeping going, in part, because you’re helping keep the conversation going. There wasn’t enough evidence, based on what we saw, that the ref was being racist. You thought he was, which was quite the leap by most folks standards. Not much else to say is there. 

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Just now, GinRummy said:

It’s keeping going, in part, because you’re helping keep the conversation going. There wasn’t enough evidence, based on what we saw, that the ref was being racist. You thought he was, which was quite the leap by most folks standards. Not much else to say is there. 

 

Once again, I'm only respond because folk are posting tragic shite at me, like this. I said one comment in a match thread, I didn't make a court filing. The "evidence" was what I saw and I made a passing comment on it. I've been reading for decades that Collum is biased because he teaches at a Catholic school, despite him doing Rangers repeated favors, and no one loses their shit or feels the need to point out that that's obviously "quite a leap."

 

The point I'm not willing to conceded, which seems to be what's dragging out the conversation, is that I can't make a passing comment on someone acting in a way that seems racist to me unless I personally find his British National Front membership card with an up-to-date expiry. That's an absurd standard and I'm not having it.

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5 minutes ago, jonesy said:

1. I don't think you actually understand what 'losing one's bottle' actually means. 

 

2. Own your mistake. You can't just go around claiming individuals are racist because they didn't give a penalty to a black striker. Or, you can, but expect folk to have a laugh at you because it's an incredibly bizarre take on things. I assume a ref with strong Christian beliefs failing to give a 50/50 decision in favour of a Muslim player would indicate their inherent Islamophobia? And I suppose any decision a male referee makes in a women's game is down to their deep-rooted, socially-constructed misogyny? 

 

Not sure if you know this, but Larry Kingston tried calling a ref racist once. Bloke turned out to have a black wife. So, unless you know anything about Alan Muir (other than the fact he's a shite ref) beyond the fact he's a white man (and even then, I don't know anything about his heritage or his gender identity), stop digging, admit it was a daft and unfair comment in the heat of the moment, and we can all go back to our hand-holding, Bennetton advertisement multi-cultural lives.

 

Your comment reminds me of the bloke who tried claiming Tom Hanks, by not being racist, was actually racist because he wasn't anti-racist. Not everything has to be seen through the prism of race - in fact, I'd suggest that for most folk, things aren't. 

 

1. Probably right and I should quit using it. Was using it in place of "losing ones shit." Apologies.

 

2. No. Treating racism as the equivalent of paedophilia, some horrific crime which should only be spoken of with strong evidence, is part of the problem. It's bog standard. Maybe I was right, maybe I was wrong, it was a comment on a message board by an internet rando not a material charge that will in any way impact Muir's life or reputation. I'm happy to admit I don't know (as I have done repeatedly). But people seriously need to stop losing their shit when racism is brought up.

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19 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Once again, I'm only respond because folk are posting tragic shite at me, like this. I said one comment in a match thread, I didn't make a court filing. The "evidence" was what I saw and I made a passing comment on it. I've been reading for decades that Collum is biased because he teaches at a Catholic school, despite him doing Rangers repeated favors, and no one loses their shit or feels the need to point out that that's obviously "quite a leap."

 

The point I'm not willing to conceded, which seems to be what's dragging out the conversation, is that I can't make a passing comment on someone acting in a way that seems racist to me unless I personally find his British National Front membership card with an up-to-date expiry. That's an absurd standard and I'm not having it.

 

Man up mate, you sat on a bollock, it was a low accusation.

 

We all **** up, but you're making yourself look worse and worse here.

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14 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

1. Probably right and I should quit using it. Was using it in place of "losing ones shit." Apologies.

 

2. No. Treating racism as the equivalent of paedophilia, some horrific crime which should only be spoken of with strong evidence, is part of the problem. It's bog standard. Maybe I was right, maybe I was wrong, it was a comment on a message board by an internet rando not a material charge that will in any way impact Muir's life or reputation. I'm happy to admit I don't know (as I have done repeatedly). But people seriously need to stop losing their shit when racism is brought up.

Keep digging🤣

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Quote

But people seriously need to stop losing their shit when racism is brought up.

Sorry not sorry this is making y'all so uncomfortable. Let's move on.

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4 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

Sorry not sorry this is making y'all so uncomfortable. Let's move on.

I'm not uncomfortable, I do think you're making a ***** of yourself though.

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3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I'm not uncomfortable, I do think you're making a ***** of yourself though.

 

Cheers. Oh well, can't win 'em all.

Edited by Led Tasso
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Just now, Smithee said:

Nothing personal, you're one of the good guys IMHO 

:thumb: No offense taken, I enjoy your posts on here quite a bit. We're gonna disagree on this one, and that's fine.

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Just now, Led Tasso said:

:thumb: No offense taken, I enjoy your posts on here quite a bit. We're gonna disagree on this one, and that's fine.

👍

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Nelly Terraces

Yesterday was dire, we just weren't at it from the very start & actually when I'd seen the team beforehand I had mu doubts, but wasn't prepared for how poorly we were gonna approach this, long balls over the top, just not our style & the players didn't look comfortable. Hate to say it but Kio looks an absolute dud, he seems to manage to be in no mans lands whether we have the ball or the oppo do, he's hiding in plain sight, I actually think this contributed to Devlins going off as wee Cammy was having to cover for him constantly & get stuck in on his behalf, the geezer shoulda been hooked as he offered us nothing.

There were 1 or 2 decent individual performances though, as in Toby & Kye at the back looked assured, and Grant, despite that fecking ludicrous & unnecessary dive gave us a bit more going forward, I like him but he needs to cut that diving shite out. Kingsley though, jeezo, he had what I'd describe as the single worst display by any Hearts player this season, he shanked SIX long passes nowhere & was all over the place, but we can forgive him as he's been quality since coming here & did well when he came on at the methadome last week.

 

All in, a bit annoying really, 27.50 for that poor fare, Livi are fecking pish, and are there for the taking plus we could've been out of sight in 3rd with a win, but it's the Hearts way, up one minute, down the next. At least we got a point but we MUST play better in these sorts of games. Mind you, the pitch didn't help as it's diabolical & should be banned, only in the tinpot footballing backwater of Scotland could you get away with having a surface like that, it's a total nonsense.

 

Cheers & as always... HHGH. 

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9 minutes ago, jonesy said:

1. :thumb:

 

2. I disagree with you, but can understand where you're coming from. Perhaps given your context (the US/progressive politics judging from other posts), you've become hyper-sensitive to injustice against minorities. From my viewpoint and in my experience, that has the potential to end up taking over other, just as legitimate, trains of thought such as 'Hey, that Alan Muir is a shite ref'. 🤗

 

Not quite sure where the paedophilia equivalence comes in, but it's interesting that you've now brought a second shovel to the party. :o 

 

LOL FFS no, let's not go down another hole! Forget I said it!!!

 

I'd like to think I'm not "hyper-sensitive" but the point I made has been made clear to me, both from just listening to minority friends and from reading in grad school (I didn't work directly on racism but read adjacently on it). Racism isn't some rare randos with white hoods or "88" in their usernames, it's easy to slide into unintentionally because of the way it works. Beyond that I'll just say if we want to continue this it should really go to the Shed and I'm happy to do that.

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Yes, let's move on ...

 

I felt sorry for the young lad sandwiched between two middle-aged knuckle-dragging slapheids who spent the entire game yelling out expletive laden abuse towards our own players and management whilst (typically) ignoring any opportunity for encouragement.

 

Trumpeting their ignorance with no self-awareness and shouting gems of wisdom like, "Kye, ya big cu*t", and, "Kio, yer fuc*in' shite" etc. etc. Thick as 4 short planks.

 

Mind you, with a 10 game unbeaten run including 2 x 3-0 victories over H1b5 whilst knocking them out of the 🏆 yet again, it's comforting for me to be educated that, "Neilson hasn't got a fuc*ing clue".

 

Away games, eh?

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4 minutes ago, Wee Mikey said:

Yes, let's move on ...

 

I felt sorry for the young lad sandwiched between two middle-aged knuckle-dragging slapheids who spent the entire game yelling out expletive laden abuse towards our own players and management whilst (typically) ignoring any opportunity for encouragement.

 

Trumpeting their ignorance with no self-awareness and shouting gems of wisdom like, "Kye, ya big cu*t", and, "Kio, yer fuc*in' shite" etc. etc. Thick as 4 short planks.

 

Mind you, with a 10 game unbeaten run including 2 x 3-0 victories over H1b5 whilst knocking them out of the 🏆 yet again, it's comforting for me to be educated that, "Neilson hasn't got a fuc*ing clue".

 

Away games, eh?

 

Why do folk like this even spend money on tickets if they're so miserable? It takes effort to make an away game.

 

Or is the shouting abuse what they're there for?

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2 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

Why do folk like this even spend money on tickets if they're so miserable? It takes effort to make an away game.

 

Or is the shouting abuse what they're there for?

 

Who knows? Probably as nice as ninepence in their hooses. Alternatively, encouraged by their wives to have an away day for a bit of peace & quiet?

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3 minutes ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

Who knows? Probably as nice as ninepence in their hooses. Alternatively, encouraged by their wives to have an away day for a bit of peace & quiet?

:lol: fair point!

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7 minutes ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

Who knows? Probably as nice as ninepence in their hooses. Alternatively, encouraged by their wives to have an away day for a bit of peace & quiet?

 

One of the best heckler putdowns I ever heard, I think it was Billy Connolly. "For him it's a night out, for his family it's a night off."

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Just now, jonesy said:

Happy to do so too. I’ve been fortunate to love, live beside, work and study with people from a variety of ethnic backgrounds and abhor racism of any form. In fact I’m dreading the day my own kids get their first anti-Chinese comments. 

Cheers, I'm too busy to fire up a thread but anyone feel free to tag me in on a thread and I'll join in. (Not sure why anyone would want that, but hey . . . :lol:)

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45 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

Racism isn't some rare randos with white hoods or "88" in their username

 

I was born in 1988 and my old PSN username (alongside other usernames) used to have 88 at the end of it. I found out that it had racist connotations after being called a right wing nazi scumbag while playing FIFA (and I'm quite on the opposite side of the political spectrum). Googled the meaning of it and quickly changed all usernames with an 88 in them 😂

 

While it's been done to death I have to say, I just think the ref was shite and not racist.

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6 minutes ago, Dallas Green said:

 

I was born in 1988 and my old PSN username (alongside other usernames) used to have 88 at the end of it. I found out that it had racist connotations after being called a right wing nazi scumbag while playing FIFA (and I'm quite on the opposite side of the political spectrum). Googled the meaning of it and quickly changed all usernames with an 88 in them 😂

 

While it's been done to death I have to say, I just think the ref was shite and not racist.

 

Yeah, it's a bummer for people who want that because they had a favorite player in some sport who wore 88 or folks like yourself, but there it is. Same as folks who have the name "Adolph" as a beloved family name.

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3 minutes ago, Dallas Green said:

I was born in 1988 and my old PSN username (alongside other usernames) used to have 88 at the end of it. I found out that it had racist connotations after being called a right wing nazi scumbag while playing FIFA (and I'm quite on the opposite side of the political spectrum). Googled the meaning of it and quickly changed all usernames with an 88 in them 😂

 

While it's been done to death I have to say, I just think the ref was shite and not racist.

 

Sadly, we, along with most other teams, have to endure shocking ref performances as part & parcel of the game.

 

I've been to many a game where the ref has been given post-match pelters by both sets of fans.

 

Sometimes, although very rarely, the ref has been 'invisible', as it should be. But, all too often, they make themselves the centre of attention and sometimes even take the piss with impunity like he who shall remain nameless who took great delight in winding up our home support, complete with knowing grin, whilst deliberately making an arse of stepping out 10 yards for a free kick right in front of the Gorgie end.

 

It's a sad state if affairs when we breath a sigh of relief seeing Collum as a ref!!!

 

As for Don Robertson? Those two yellows at the 🏆 derby for Shanks? That was just a continuation of his previous behaviour and he really must have an issue with Hearts.

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On 29/01/2023 at 16:37, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Done more than Quol has in the UK 


get back to me when Quol has played 37 games for Hearts like Henderson…..

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1 minute ago, Wee Mikey said:

As for Don Robertson

 

Did you see the penalty he gave Celtic last night, then overturned? Was never a pen in the first instance.

 

And then the penalty he gave, he didn't book the boy for a deliberate hand ball.

 

He's just an absolutely shite ref. 

 

Shanklands first booking was an awful decision but the second yellow was down to Rocky. Yeah it was a bad decision but only because Rocky threw himself to the ground like he'd been shot.

 

As you say, you rarely get an "invisible" ref, it's all about the man in the middle. The look at me show. Which I can never understand why they would want that attention when their decisions are so absolutely shite!

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4 minutes ago, Dallas Green said:

Did you see the penalty he gave Celtic last night, then overturned? Was never a pen in the first instance.

 

And then the penalty he gave, he didn't book the boy for a deliberate hand ball.

 

He's just an absolutely shite ref. 

 

Shanklands first booking was an awful decision but the second yellow was down to Rocky. Yeah it was a bad decision but only because Rocky threw himself to the ground like he'd been shot.

 

As you say, you rarely get an "invisible" ref, it's all about the man in the middle. The look at me show. Which I can never understand why they would want that attention when their decisions are so absolutely shite!

 

The thing is, I genuinely have some sort of sympathy for refs. It's a tough gig.

 

When play is at 100 mph it must be tricky trying to see all that's unfolding. But, there are assistant refs, a 4th official, and now VAR to help.

 

I well remember being right behind the goals in the Roseburn end when Bednar knocked one in with his hand. He knew; the ref knew; but I (along with the rest of us) was jumping up celebrating the non-goal; and that was right in front of me. Bednar and the ref exchanged knowing glances, winks, and smiles, and the game restarted without any silly cards or whatever.

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1 hour ago, Dallas Green said:

 

I was born in 1988 and my old PSN username (alongside other usernames) used to have 88 at the end of it. I found out that it had racist connotations after being called a right wing nazi scumbag while playing FIFA (and I'm quite on the opposite side of the political spectrum). Googled the meaning of it and quickly changed all usernames with an 88 in them 😂

 

While it's been done to death I have to say, I just think the ref was shite and not racist.


Way off topic but my Dad got my nephew Mein Kampf instead of Minecraft for a present one Christmas. Mistakes happen. 

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2 hours ago, Thomaso said:


get back to me when Quol has played 37 games for Hearts like Henderson…..

Will do - but how many starts did Henderson get?

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2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Ref wasn’t exactly kind to our Japanese player either. Clipped and pulled.

5A826FAC-5ADD-43D2-BAA6-04F7953B3671.jpeg

Still should probably have scored but that picture sheds some light on why he maybe didn’t.

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3 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Ref wasn’t exactly kind to our Japanese player either. Clipped and pulled.

5A826FAC-5ADD-43D2-BAA6-04F7953B3671.jpeg

 

Is that not a penalty then? 

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4 minutes ago, OTT said:

Is that not a penalty then? 

 

Still photos aren't much worth. He was 'bumped', but even that photo looks outside the box.

 

Having said that ... a free kick anywhere else on the pitch? 🤔

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3 minutes ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

Still photos aren't much worth. He was 'bumped', but even that photo looks outside the box.

 

Having said that ... a free kick anywhere else on the pitch? 🤔

That’s the 6 yard box🤣

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1 hour ago, Des Lynam said:

Way off topic but my Dad got my nephew Mein Kampf instead of Minecraft for a present one Christmas. Mistakes happen. 

 

That ☝️ is comedy gold.

 

But ... could it be that yer dad has a wicked sense of humour?

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