Toby Sibbick ( merged )

[GinRummy]

29 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah definitely, as someone else said we’ve had 8 months to get a replacement in which may well

cost us a lot more than £400k. 

I'd have liked him to go out and sign a proven centre bavk but after the arrival of Sibbick, Neilson and Rowles I had decided it was very unlikely. I do think we might get another defender in but most likely along the same lines, young and/or inexerienced.

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, GinRummy said:

I'd have liked him to go out and sign a proven centre bavk but after the arrival of Sibbick, Neilson and Rowles I had decided it was very unlikely. I do think we might get another defender in but most likely along the same lines, young and/or inexerienced.

We have time yet but yes it’s likely to be someone under 25, I think Sibbick will improve in a four and just needs to stop ball watching as much, something Souttar still does also. 

[Carter]

4 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Ffs,  "a victim". 🤣😭

Nonesense. 

 

It should be an opportunity to step up and improve. 

If he sees himself as a victim because he has to actually play and do his job then he shouldn't be at Hearts. 

 

He won't feel like that tho,  he'll want to play games. 

 

 

 

 

It was a little strange to turn down £400,000 in January for a player who would go on to play only a handful of matches before the expiration of his contract and not replace him by late August. 

 

Not sure if Sibbick was signed as we knew Souttar was off. Robbie has talked for months now about a RCB being a priority. Not entirely clear where Sibbick fits in. More than likely he'll move back south in January or next summer.

[Bazzas right boot]

9 minutes ago, Carter said:

It was a little strange to turn down £400,000 in January for a player who would go on to play only a handful of matches before the expiration of his contract and not replace him by late August. 

 

Not sure if Sibbick was signed as we knew Souttar was off. Robbie has talked for months now about a RCB being a priority. Not entirely clear where Sibbick fits in. More than likely he'll move back south in January or next summer.

 

 

Unless he improves,  I agree. 

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, Sooks said:

 

While I do not necessarily agree with what Pasquale is suggesting , I took it as him employing the same tactic as those who are racist when they call black players lazy ............... like holding a mirror up to them by thinly veiling the true point so that every one knows what they are meaning but they just do not feel brave enough to come out and say it

It wasn’t thinly veiled at all, we have racists in our support who target black players when they don’t play well. Unlike arseholes like me who moan at anyone who makes mistakes. 
PS i don’t engage with Tosh anymore. 

[Pasquale for King]

27 minutes ago, Carter said:

It was a little strange to turn down £400,000 in January for a player who would go on to play only a handful of matches before the expiration of his contract and not replace him by late August. 

 

Not sure if Sibbick was signed as we knew Souttar was off. Robbie has talked for months now about a RCB being a priority. Not entirely clear where Sibbick fits in. More than likely he'll move back south in January or next summer.

He wasn’t signed as a replacement. 
https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/19882930.hearts-manager-robbie-neilson-insists-toby-sibbick-not-replacement-john-souttar/

[Carter]

15 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

He wasn’t signed as a replacement. 
https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/19882930.hearts-manager-robbie-neilson-insists-toby-sibbick-not-replacement-john-souttar/

I'm not quite sure why we signed him tbh. We don't appear to have a specific intention for him. 

[Pasquale for King]

13 minutes ago, Carter said:

I'm not quite sure why we signed him tbh. We don't appear to have a specific intention for him. 

Yeah I’m kind of wondering that myself, to pay money for someone you’d think it would be for a starter. We can only hope he can progress and nail down a spot, especially if we don’t get another RCB in. 

[Naisys Tackle]

42 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

It wasn’t thinly veiled at all, we have racists in our support who target black players when they don’t play well. Unlike arseholes like me who moan at anyone who makes mistakes. 
PS i don’t engage with Tosh anymore. 

Beni had a poor few games last season and there was no jumping on his back because he was black.  Why?  Because we can all see his quality regardless of what colour he is.  Sibbick has been a weak link and so far hasn't shown to be good enough.  Be the equivalent of GMS coming on to replace McKay.  Haring and Atkinson got it tight big time last week many slating Atkinson saying to punt him, they aren't black?  Stewart has had it tight for more than a year now too. 

Implying theres racist undertones to it really is poor form.  

 

[Naisys Tackle]

15 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah I’m kind of wondering that myself, to pay money for someone you’d think it would be for a starter. We can only hope he can progress and nail down a spot, especially if we don’t get another RCB in. 

I have a feeling that Barnsley got rid because Sibbick seen himself as a CH and they didn't.  Robbies got him in initially because he was available, been here before, nice kid and is versatile but eventually hoping he would grow into a specific role in the team.  Not bad business as back up but not good enough to be first choice in any area. 

[Pasquale for King]

12 minutes ago, Robbies Tackle said:

Beni had a poor few games last season and there was no jumping on his back because he was black.  Why?  Because we can all see his quality regardless of what colour he is.  Sibbick has been a weak link and so far hasn't shown to be good enough.  Be the equivalent of GMS coming on to replace McKay.  Haring and Atkinson got it tight big time last week many slating Atkinson saying to punt him, they aren't black?  Stewart has had it tight for more than a year now too. 

Implying theres racist undertones to it really is poor form.  

 

How would you explain the abuse of Djoum and Isma then, two of our better players when they were here? I’m not saying everyone who criticises players who are black or foreign are racists, I myself slated Prince for instance and Damour.
There is definitely an element of racism in our support is my point. 

[Pasquale for King]

12 minutes ago, Robbies Tackle said:

I have a feeling that Barnsley got rid because Sibbick seen himself as a CH and they didn't.  Robbies got him in initially because he was available, been here before, nice kid and is versatile but eventually hoping he would grow into a specific role in the team.  Not bad business as back up but not good enough to be first choice in any area. 

We shouldn’t really be paying money for back ups though, he’s young and I think he will come good once he cements a position. Changing formations and positions during every game isn’t helping the situation. 
Hes now played CM, RCB in a 2&3, LB, RB in a four and central in a 3 in about 20 games for us.
Whilst this will help his progression it might not help him learn one position or which one he suits the most. 

[Carter]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah I’m kind of wondering that myself, to pay money for someone you’d think it would be for a starter. We can only hope he can progress and nail down a spot, especially if we don’t get another RCB in. 

The fee wouldn't have been insignificant. Every chance we paid a similar level of fee for Sibbick as we ended up paying for Shankland. I think he signed a three and a half year deal. 

 

I did think on his arrival he was more of a potential replacement for Beni than Souttar. Had Beni have not sustained injury he would probably have been subject of interest this summer. Sibbick not played in midfield enough for that to be plausible.

[JamboAndrew]

Comparisons woth Zali are good ones I think.

 

When he has played well, we have seen there is a good footballer there. That's why he was at Barnsley.

 

His inconsistency is why he is with us.

 

It's a level we shop at. If we can get him consistant, then there's a great player there. If not, it's a risk that was worth taking.

 

I really don't like it when folk get on young players backs when they make a mistake or have a bad game.

 

The only time I'm all for getting on players backs is when they clearly have the talent and don't try a leg. See Whelen, Kingston (towards the end), that Greek chap, Tzolis or something etc...

[BlueRiver]

1 hour ago, Robbies Tackle said:

Beni had a poor few games last season and there was no jumping on his back because he was black.  Why?  Because we can all see his quality regardless of what colour he is.  Sibbick has been a weak link and so far hasn't shown to be good enough.  Be the equivalent of GMS coming on to replace McKay.  Haring and Atkinson got it tight big time last week many slating Atkinson saying to punt him, they aren't black?  Stewart has had it tight for more than a year now too. 

Implying theres racist undertones to it really is poor form.  

 

Agreed.  It’s an easy way to avoid justifying your opinions if you just claim everyone else is being racist about it. 

[McCrae]

On 23/08/2022 at 16:34, Martin_T said:

 

He's got a lot of positive attributes, quick strong, usually wins the ball cleanly and has decent long range passing ability.

 

Positional sense and concentration are the main issues at the moment and both can be improved via coaching.

 

I agree, the areas he needs to improve can all be resolved through coaching. 

[Pasquale for King]

49 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

Agreed.  It’s an easy way to avoid justifying your opinions if you just claim everyone else is being racist about it. 

I think I’ve justified my opinions if you had bothered to read them, and at no point did I say EVERYONE else is racist. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Carter said:

The fee wouldn't have been insignificant. Every chance we paid a similar level of fee for Sibbick as we ended up paying for Shankland. I think he signed a three and a half year deal. 

 

I did think on his arrival he was more of a potential replacement for Beni than Souttar. Had Beni have not sustained injury he would probably have been subject of interest this summer. Sibbick not played in midfield enough for that to be plausible.

Anywhere upwards from £100k I suppose,  Beni will need to do a lot more and stay injury free for a season at least to be sold on. 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

How would you explain the abuse of Djoum and Isma then, two of our better players when they were here? I’m not saying everyone who criticises players who are black or foreign are racists, I myself slated Prince for instance and Damour.
There is definitely an element of racism in our support is my point. 

 

 

We have stupid fans and yes some are racist. 

 

No racist undertones on here until you brought it up tho. 

 

Some fans for example still don't like or rate our manager and really slagged him ,  he's not black. 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

56 minutes ago, JamboAndrew said:

Comparisons woth Zali are good ones I think.

 

When he has played well, we have seen there is a good footballer there. That's why he was at Barnsley.

 

His inconsistency is why he is with us.

 

It's a level we shop at. If we can get him consistant, then there's a great player there. If not, it's a risk that was worth taking.

 

I really don't like it when folk get on young players backs when they make a mistake or have a bad game.

 

The only time I'm all for getting on players backs is when they clearly have the talent and don't try a leg. See Whelen, Kingston (towards the end), that Greek chap, Tzolis or something etc...

 

 

I've Got to say its not a good comparison as when Zal played well he played very well,  brilliant at times. 

 

Sibbick plays OK then plays poor with the added bonus of brain farts added in. 

 

Zal was nconsistent,  but his better games were far better than Sibbick's thus showing his potential despite being inconsistent. 

 

It's a massive difference therefore I'm not seeing the comparison. 

 

Sibbick hasn't really played well in any game,  he's been ok in some.

 

I wouldn't get on his back at a game,  I never do but atm he's not very good and any opposition would target him as he'll give away easy chances. 

 

 

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

Here’s hoping he has a great game tonight. 

[Carter]

21 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Anywhere upwards from £100k I suppose,  Beni will need to do a lot more and stay injury free for a season at least to be sold on. 

Some talk the figure was upwards of £300k.

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Carter said:

Some talk the figure was upwards of £300k.

I’m positive he will come good and that will be a good investment. 

[Stendelnator]

22 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

I've Got to say its not a good comparison as when Zal played well he played very well,  brilliant at times. 

 

Sibbick plays OK then plays poor with the added bonus of brain farts added in. 

 

Zal was nconsistent,  but his better games were far better than Sibbick's thus showing his potential despite being inconsistent. 

 

It's a massive difference therefore I'm not seeing the comparison. 

 

Sibbick hasn't really played well in any game,  he's been ok in some.

 

I wouldn't get on his back at a game,  I never do but atm he's not very good and any opposition would target him as he'll give away easy chances. 

 

 

 

 

Yes but Zal was here for 7 years so it’s easier to say that. Sibbick has been here 7 months. 

[BlueRiver]

33 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think I’ve justified my opinions if you had bothered to read them, and at no point did I say EVERYONE else is racist. 

I haven’t. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, BlueRiver said:

I haven’t. 

Cool so you just answered without knowing all the facts, good stuff 👍🏽. 

[Naisys Tackle]

2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

How would you explain the abuse of Djoum and Isma then, two of our better players when they were here? I’m not saying everyone who criticises players who are black or foreign are racists, I myself slated Prince for instance and Damour.
There is definitely an element of racism in our support is my point. 

Fair enough, its certainly not coming across that way on this thread or board though bud.  Couldnt care less what colour any player is as long as they are good enough for HMFC.  

[john thomas]

35 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

We have stupid fans and yes some are racist. 

 

No racist undertones on here until you brought it up tho. 

 

Some fans for example still don't like or rate our manager and really slagged him ,  he's not black. 

 

No but he does come from Paisley 

[BlueRiver]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Cool so you just answered without knowing all the facts, good stuff 👍🏽. 

Checked now. I still see you alluding to racist undertones to people’s criticism with very little substance behind the allegations 🤷‍♂️

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

Checked now. I still see you alluding to racist undertones to people’s criticism with very little substance behind the allegations 🤷‍♂️

You miss the bits where I said not all fans are racist but there are definitely some, maybe you could sit in Section P where I’ve heard the same guys moan about Djoum/Isma/Gino and Sibbick but sit and watch guys like Berra give the ball

away constantly or any of the other crap we’ve suffered without a word of criticism. 
If you don’t realise we have racists in our support take a quick look at the casual racism being spouted on other threads about the Swiss. 
 

[BlueRiver]

8 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

You miss the bits where I said not all fans are racist but there are definitely some, maybe you could sit in Section P where I’ve heard the same guys moan about Djoum/Isma/Gino and Sibbick but sit and watch guys like Berra give the ball

away constantly or any of the other crap we’ve suffered without a word of criticism. 
If you don’t realise we have racists in our support take a quick look at the casual racism being spouted on other threads about the Swiss. 
 

I’m not talking about Section P. I’m talking about the views on this thread and considering a lot of Sibbick’s performances, I don’t really see where the allusion to racism being the cause was necessary.

 

I’ve seen many of the posters on this thread be as harsh about Atkinson and others on different threads. 
 

There will be racists in our support, there will be all sorts of people to be honest…I just don’t see how it’s relevant to a thread criticising a player who’s been very underwhelming since he’s joined. 

[Unknown user]

50 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

I've Got to say its not a good comparison as when Zal played well he played very well,  brilliant at times. 

 

Sibbick plays OK then plays poor with the added bonus of brain farts added in. 

 

Zal was nconsistent,  but his better games were far better than Sibbick's thus showing his potential despite being inconsistent. 

 

It's a massive difference therefore I'm not seeing the comparison. 

 

Sibbick hasn't really played well in any game,  he's been ok in some.

 

I wouldn't get on his back at a game,  I never do but atm he's not very good and any opposition would target him as he'll give away easy chances. 

 

I don't remember zaliukas playing really well in the first year at all, he was always making blunders as far as I recall.

[Pasquale for King]

23 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

I’m not talking about Section P. I’m talking about the views on this thread and considering a lot of Sibbick’s performances, I don’t really see where the allusion to racism being the cause was necessary.

 

I’ve seen many of the posters on this thread be as harsh about Atkinson and others on different threads. 
 

There will be racists in our support, there will be all sorts of people to be honest…I just don’t see how it’s relevant to a thread criticising a player who’s been very underwhelming since he’s joined. 

It’s relevant because some of the criticism, even on here will be racially motivated.,

[Bazzas right boot]

29 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I don't remember zaliukas playing really well in the first year at all, he was always making blunders as far as I recall.

 

He made blunders,  but also played very well in games. 

 

That's what I remember. 

[Bazzas right boot]

52 minutes ago, john thomas said:

No but he does come from Paisley 

 

He does,  probably doesn't get enough abuse for that Tbh 

[Bazzas right boot]

11 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

It’s relevant because some of the criticism, even on here will be racially motivated.,

 

If you're gonna put that out there you need to give examples of it on here that is aimed at Sibbick. 

 

Very poor form. 

 

Horrendous Tbh. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

13 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

If you're gonna put that out there you need to give examples of it on here that is aimed at Sibbick. 

 

Very poor form. 

 

Horrendous Tbh. 

 

Have a seat on this one, mate.

 

All football opinions get formed in the context of what those around you think. You form your own opinion but if everyone else sees something different you at least start to doubt it. Likewise if you're not sure, but the prevailing opinion goes one way, you find yourself starting to go with it. This shouldn't be a shock to anyone, it's basic psychology. Happens in any group of folk watching the same thing together.

 

There'll be a set in our fanbase, because there's a set in just about every fanbase in Europe or the US, that simply don't like Black players. Whether it's out and out explicit, unapologetic racism, or the "I'm not racist but Black players are just lazier" bit, they'll make their feelings known. Just based on that, there'll be more criticism of Black players in the stands than there are of other players. And if it goes on long enough, people start to see their faults more and ignore their strengths.

 

So folk who do their best to not be racist will still end up getting influenced by it. PfK is pointing it out, not pointing fingers.

[Bazzas right boot]

2 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Have a seat on this one, mate.

 

All football opinions get formed in the context of what those around you think. You form your own opinion but if everyone else sees something different you at least start to doubt it. Likewise if you're not sure, but the prevailing opinion goes one way, you find yourself starting to go with it. This shouldn't be a shock to anyone, it's basic psychology. Happens in any group of folk watching the same thing together.

 

There'll be a set in our fanbase, because there's a set in just about every fanbase in Europe or the US, that simply don't like Black players. Whether it's out and out explicit, unapologetic racism, or the "I'm not racist but Black players are just lazier" bit, they'll make their feelings known. Just based on that, there'll be more criticism of Black players in the stands than there are of other players. And if it goes on long enough, people start to see their faults more and ignore their strengths.

 

So folk who do their best to not be racist will still end up getting influenced by it. PfK is pointing it out, not pointing fingers.

 

 

 

All fair. 

 

And humans are generally weak minded and will be washed along with whatever culture and behaviour they are used to, normalise it and eventually believe it. 

 

Very few will break away from it and  challenge it. 

 

However,  in the context of this thread it's nonsense and should be left at home. 

 

He's pointing out that the criticism of Sibbick on this thread is racially motivated and that imo is poor and should be challenged. 

 

 

 

 

[saxondale]

No surprise to see Sibbick directly at fault for the goal. Poor positioning to begin with and then megged...

 

Lewis Neilson must be awful.

[Walter Bishop]

1 minute ago, saxondale said:

No surprise to see Sibbick directly at fault for the goal. Poor positioning to begin with and then megged...

 

Lewis Neilson must be awful.

Bit harsh, thrown on without a warm up. Wrong substitute, should have been an attacking player on at that point. 

[Kirky Jambo]

Booing the lad is out of order but feck me he is awful as a defender.

[saxondale]

1 minute ago, Walter Bishop said:

Bit harsh, thrown on without a warm up. Wrong substitute, should have been an attacking player on at that point. 

 

I'm sorry but a lack of a warm up does not excuse that. It's every time he plays as well. We desperately need an upgrade.

[RustyRightPeg]

I’ve always tried to back him up as I believe(d) he had what it took to make it here. 
 

I get he was thrown on at a couple of minutes notice, but as a coach it’s a pet peeve when a player isn’t ready to play. If he’s not warmed up it’s only his fault. He looked cold and off the pace when he came on, the lad got wrong side and then made him country dance before cutting it back. I don’t know if the fitness coach have some sort of responsibility to make sure the players are ready, but perhaps it’s something that can br adopted if not. 
 

Hearing boo’s from our own fans is unacceptable however. 
 

I noticed he went straight up the tunnel at full time as well, and I don’t blame him if I’m honest. Some right melts in our support. He isn’t the first player to come up short at our club, but he’s certainly one of the only ones to be boo’d by some arseholes. 

[oritem8]

On 24/07/2022 at 02:01, Sub4TiddlerMurray said:

Best way to describe your post.
 

This thread is one of those cheap JKB pile-ons that suck the air out of life. 
 

Sibbick is a terrific player and he’s had a very good pre-season. Absolutely unwarranted, but predictable JKB “let’s have a go at a player who isn’t yet a first name on the team sheet” nonsense. 

?

[BackOfTheNet]

Things are raw right now, but all I want to say is, if you booed him when the team sheet was read out, or when he touched the ball, or ironically cheered when he had a good clearance… do us actual supporters a favour and **** off and give your season ticket to someone else.

 

Supporting a team means you support the players. You’re not supporting wins, or supporting 3 points. You don’t pick and choose when you support your club. The player is not someone who’s not giving his all or has been disloyal to the club, he’s a young man making his way in the game and quite frankly thrown in at the deep end at times.

 

If you booed or ironically cheered, it’s not just wee man mentality, it’s mentally challenged.

[jbee647]

Booing Sibbick from Hearts fans was embarrassing absoloutley no need, 

[Dazo]

17 minutes ago, saxondale said:

 

I'm sorry but a lack of a warm up does not excuse that. It's every time he plays as well. We desperately need an upgrade.

Agree with this. The boy is dug shite. 

[Walter Bishop]

2 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

Booing Sibbick from Hearts fans was embarrassing absoloutley no need, 

100% this, disgusting. 
 

He ran straight down tunnel at the end of the game.

[feedthefox]

Very hard for Sibbick to walk into that game at that point in time, the sub who Zurich brought on was beating men at will and was well up to speed. Can't stand the booing of your own players by all means moan or post on here but booing out loud that's pathetic.

[communist]

His performances are just as embarrassing as the people booing him.