Robbie!!! ( merged )

[OTT]

24 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Agree. I find it quite regular around me that fans get agitated at how slow we start. You could maybe(maybe!) understand such away from home, but at Tynie we should be sniffing blood.

 

Today, you clearly see players half a yard off it from the first whistle.  It all seems too relaxed and as if we have the attitude it’s all under control.  Then later when we need to find another gear, it’s like the players don’t know how to up the work rate.
 

We go through the same cycle of play time and again. Nothing different, no one in the team doing something left field, no obvious change in body language or visible change in individual intensity.  There are obviously a few who do give us that wee bit more, but it has to come from the majority.  

 

Yeah, I'm really not looking to criticise Robbie, Martindale has them well drilled and they're excellent at what they do. The problem I sort of have is that Robbie isn't sending the team out to start slowly (what manager would? ), so something isn't going to plan in getting the players hyped up and ready to run through brick walls! Its quite annoying because we have a really good team and a manager that knows how to finish 3rd, but getting the players mentally sharp and ready to go from the whistle seems to be a tough task. 
 

Perhaps I'm being overly harsh, we've had a LOT of games and a LOT of injuries in a short space of time, so its natural for fatigue to build up and take that extra 1% professionals need to get the edge over each other. But equally, giving the players excuses to latch onto probably isn't a good idea either. 

 

BTW this isn't to take away from fighting on until the end to get that equaliser - having that never say die attitude is fantastic, its more the need to give ourselves a mountain to climb in the first instance by not being at the races to begin with. Its like going behind is the motivator to push on? 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

Ah, we are back at the, anyone that doesn't think the draw was acceptable because of (insert whatever reason here) is clearly a Robbie hater and doesn't live Hearts? 

 

In no way can they be disappointed that we failed to beat a team we should still be capable of beating and that we should want and perhaps expect more from players that we pay. 

I’ve already put in my criticism of today on this thread but for the most part the criticism is nothing but the same old tired cliches rather than specifics. This would be such a better thread if those disappointed could put into words what should have been done victory.

 

We make fun of Bongo because he’s the worst broken record (and why his managerial career has once again gone off the boil) but he’s far from the only one.

 

Let’s be critical of the manager, sure, but folk should also back it up with reality instead of vague aphorisms like “no plan b” or “not brave enough” or “tinkering.” Those are for the lazy.

[Thunder and Lightning]

Just now, Led Tasso said:

I’ve already put in my criticism of today on this thread but for the most part the criticism is nothing but the same old tired cliches rather than specifics. This would be such a better thread if those disappointed could put into words what should have been done victory.

 

We make fun of Bongo because he’s the worst broken record (and why his managerial career has once again gone off the boil) but he’s far from the only one.

 

Let’s be critical of the manager, sure, but folk should also back it up with reality instead of vague aphorisms like “no plan b” or “not brave enough” or “tinkering.” Those are for the lazy.

 

I think that's very fair. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

46 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

3rd biggest budget in the league, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. 

Who else has a FOH, benefactors, 15k home fans, thousands of fans going to away games. 

It's a joke that we've got a coaching team from poundsavers. 

Budget less than Aberdeen's and equal to Hibs. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

[Morgan]

2 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

I’ve already put in my criticism of today on this thread but for the most part the criticism is nothing but the same old tired cliches rather than specifics. This would be such a better thread if those disappointed could put into words what should have been done victory.

 

We make fun of Bongo because he’s the worst broken record (and why his managerial career has once again gone off the boil) but he’s far from the only one.

 

Let’s be critical of the manager, sure, but folk should also back it up with reality instead of vague aphorisms like “no plan b” or “not brave enough” or “tinkering.” Those are for the lazy.

That’s a very good post, Led.

 

@Bongo 1874 takes it in the neck, but actually makes a few good, and valid, points.

 

 

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 hour ago, Greedy Jambo said:

He's a manager with limited ability, disguising it with budget the fans and benefactors have given him, end of. 

 

absolutely 

 

 

 

 

[maltese jambo]

46 minutes ago, Greedy Jambo said:

3rd biggest budget in the league, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. 

Who else has a FOH, benefactors, 15k home fans, thousands of fans going to away games. 

It's a joke that we've got a coaching team from poundsavers. 

This is exactly the case.

 

We should doing so much better than we are and that feels incredibly frustrating given what we could and should potentially be achieving.

 

RN and in my opinion Ann budge have taken us as far as they can. Time to move on and get some new, better ideas.

[Jingle Bells]

Portimonense, average home attendance 2,358 are 7th in the Portuguese  League atm.

Just saying!

[Jeffros Furios]

1 hour ago, Vlad Magic said:

Talk Hearts massive have donned the trackies, trainers and now in full slaver mode!

 

Mind the Twitter campaign boys and if all else fails, FIRE UP THE PLANE!!

The village weirdo strikes again 

[Malinga the Swinga]

3 minutes ago, maltese jambo said:

This is exactly the case.

 

We should doing so much better than we are and that feels incredibly frustrating given what we could and should potentially be achieving.

 

RN and in my opinion Ann budge have taken us as far as they can. Time to move on and get some new, better ideas.

Ann Budge has moved on. Well done for dragging her into thread though. Something few others have done today.

[BlueRiver]

1 minute ago, Jingle Bells said:

Portimonense, average home attendance 2,358 are 7th in the Portuguese  League atm.

Just saying!

That doesn’t really sound anything special. 

[sandylejambo]

If we’re not getting shot of the manager, let’s at least get rid of his assistants, ( they don’t seem to do anything either) that might push this joker to resign. I’ve had enough of half hearted football.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

2 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

If the Robbie Oot pantwetters would STFU for a moment we could have a conversation about tactics amongst the grown ups.

 

I think Robbie got the shape wrong today, and think the 3-4-3 would have worked much better against them. We couldn't pass through the midfield the way they clogged us and it resulted in an ugly game of football.

 

Still have to say that we created plenty of chances and the strikers just didn't finish them.

 

That said, I said Robbie should get a minimum of 7 points from the last 5 league games and he did. We're in fine position.

 

 

[gorgierulesapply88]

52 minutes ago, Shooter McGavin said:

What do you mean “continue to come out on top against us”?

 

Livingston have beat us twice in 8 years, and we drew the game today.

 

A team with the budget they have should not even be stepping on the doormat never mind getting a draw!

[Thunder and Lightning]

14 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Budget less than Aberdeen's and equal to Hibs. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise.

Can you post the relevant numbers pls. 

[graygo]

3 hours ago, Carter said:

I've been reading some posts about us being in great shape as we've played OF four times and others have only played them twice. The problem with that sentiment is that other clubs, invariably with lesser resources, are taking points off Rangers in particular. Sections of our support are completely conditioned to losing to Rangers and Celtic and accept it as a fait accompli. It explains quite a lot in reality. 

 

Our record against the OF is a disgrace and the club and fans alike just appear accept it. 

 

Achieving third is going to be a significant challenge this season. 

 

Possibly, but not because we're not taking loads of points of the old firm and Rangers in particular as you say.

Apart from St Johnstone what team has "plundered" more than a single point from them?

[BlueRiver]

6 minutes ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

A team with the budget they have should not even be stepping on the doormat never mind getting a draw!

Right so we can put to bed the idea we should ever take something off Celtic and Rangers then? 

[BlueRiver]

6 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Possibly, but not because we're not taking loads of points of the old firm and Rangers in particular as you say.

Apart from St Johnstone what team has "plundered" more than a single point from them?

St Mirren beat Celtic. 
 

Think that’s about it? 

[graygo]

9 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

St Mirren beat Celtic. 
 

Think that’s about it? 

 

It is but it was the "Rangers in particular" bit that intrigued me. Pretty sure apart from Celtic, St Johnstone are the only side to beat them and they have no more points on the board than us and have played a game more.

It was a daft point to try and score with.

[BlueRiver]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

It is but it was the "Rangers in particular" bit that intrigued me. Pretty sure apart from Celtic, St Johnstone are the only side to beat them and they have no more points on the board than us and have played a game more.

It was a daft point to try and score with.

Ayep. Is it 3 teams that have picked up a point? Livi, Hibs, and St Mirren today? One of which was secured against 9 men…

2 of those teams sit below us and as you say St Johnstone have no more than us either. 
 

It’s a bit hysterical on here after a draw….
 

[Cruickie's Moustache]

The problem is there for everyone to see. We are just too bloomin slow going forwards.

We have speedy wingers and a decent goal treat in Shankland but when do we regularly break out from the back, steam forward, and give the opposition a real scare.

I've said it before McEneff was bought to be a box to box midfielder running at the opposition. However he was never played in that role.

Grant should have been his replacement bit doesn't looking like doing that job either.

 

The team is crying out for attacking pace in the middle of the park and we have none.

 

Sure, every teams wants a player to fill that role but surely we can offer something to get someone half decent in.

[ramrod]

Players let him and the fans down today,  they were as a unit horrendous,  Need to have  a serious word with themselves because that was nowhere near acceptable. 

[Carter]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

 

Possibly, but not because we're not taking loads of points of the old firm and Rangers in particular as you say.

Apart from St Johnstone what team has "plundered" more than a single point from them?

St Mirren have 4 points from a home game against each of them. We have zero. 

[Carter]

54 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

It is but it was the "Rangers in particular" bit that intrigued me. Pretty sure apart from Celtic, St Johnstone are the only side to beat them and they have no more points on the board than us and have played a game more.

It was a daft point to try and score with.

Rangers have lost in Perth, drawn in Paisley and drawn at home to Livingston. Inbetween times they've beaten us home and away to nil.

 

My point is not every team in the league seems to consider playing the uglies as inevitable defeat. 

 

[graygo]

42 minutes ago, Carter said:

Rangers have lost in Perth, drawn in Paisley and drawn at home to Livingston. Inbetween times they've beaten us home and away to nil.

 

My point is not every team in the league seems to consider playing the uglies as inevitable defeat. 

 

 

Neither do Hearts no matter what you think. It's a nonsense argument.

[graygo]

48 minutes ago, Carter said:

St Mirren have 4 points from a home game against each of them. We have zero. 

 

Really? They must be miles ahead of us in the league.

[the posh bit]

2 hours ago, Jingle Bells said:

Portimonense, average home attendance 2,358 are 7th in the Portuguese  League atm.

Just saying!

 

The state of this. 😀

[Ari Gold]

13 hours ago, RedStarRiot said:

A team prepared to consolidate 3rd and push on in Europe and at least show up against the Old Firm and try to challenge them.

 

Win a cup. 

 

The level above the current level of pissing our pants against the old firm and struggling against crap like Livi.

Paulo Sergio won a cup but finished 5th/6th. Is that the next level? 

[Shooter McGavin]

9 hours ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

A team with the budget they have should not even be stepping on the doormat never mind getting a draw!

In your previous post, you said: 

 

“Oh but Celtic and Rangers paid this for him and pay him this amount per week, get in the bin“

 

But now suddenly you’re suggesting that budgets ARE a factor?

 

[Des Lynam]

10 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

Agree. I find it quite regular around me that fans get agitated at how slow we start. You could maybe(maybe!) understand such away from home, but at Tynie we should be sniffing blood.

 

Today, you clearly see players half a yard off it from the first whistle.  It all seems too relaxed and as if we have the attitude it’s all under control.  Then later when we need to find another gear, it’s like the players don’t know how to up the work rate.
 

We go through the same cycle of play time and again. Nothing different, no one in the team doing something left field, no obvious change in body language or visible change in individual intensity.  There are obviously a few who do give us that wee bit more, but it has to come from the majority.  
 

 

 

It’s incredibly frustrating watching how slow we are at times. The players also look miles apart from each other which makes any fluent play impossible. What really kills this team is the lack of runners from midfield. Kio and Snoddy sat in and played right into Livingston’s hands. 

[Debut 4]

8 hours ago, Cruickie's Moustache said:

The problem is there for everyone to see. We are just too bloomin slow going forwards.

We have speedy wingers and a decent goal treat in Shankland but when do we regularly break out from the back, steam forward, and give the opposition a real scare.

I've said it before McEneff was bought to be a box to box midfielder running at the opposition. However he was never played in that role.

Grant should have been his replacement bit doesn't looking like doing that job either.

 

The team is crying out for attacking pace in the middle of the park and we have none.

 

Sure, every teams wants a player to fill that role but surely we can offer something to get someone half decent in.

Agree.  Yesterday was a good example over 90 mins of our wide men having to drop far too deep to get the ball too often.  I also don’t know how many times Gino looked isolated when he got the ball and had Livi players doubling up on him?  Sometimes 3 players and still no support.

 

Two things.  As you say, midfield influence.  We need the midfield to dictate more, push us up the park and work it to our wide players in positions they can do damage from, but it would also allow the full backs to start higher also………Smith clearly does his best but simply doesn’t have the stamina or pace to get up to support quick enough or often enough now. Fast, strong teams easily nullify that aspect if they are set up to. Right Back needs addressed in time.
 

 

[Debut 4]

2 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

It’s incredibly frustrating watching how slow we are at times. The players also look miles apart from each other which makes any fluent play impossible. What really kills this team is the lack of runners from midfield. Kio and Snoddy sat in and played right into Livingston’s hands. 

Still trying to work out what Kio does?  That aside, playing Dev and Kio at the same time seemed pointless and highlights the lack of choice in midfield of different types to help change style.  Could Pollock have played to give us some brain and vision from the centre?

 

Kio sat in being an extra centre half at times. Complete waste of a role. 

[Fraggle]

10 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

 

We make fun of Bongo because he’s the worst broken record (and why his managerial career has once again gone off the boil) but he’s far from the only one.

 

Am I reading this the wrong way, but what managerial career? Has there been an assumption that Bongo is a former player/manager? 

[i8hibsh]

Robbie is a pub team level manager surrounded by a management team best suited for Sunday League football. 

 

Taking medical advice from juveniles, Doogie Howsers and Polytechnic graduates.

 

Training routines that make Eddie Malofeev's seem like the Red Berets.

 

All underseen by a lady that thinks it is just the taking part that counts.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by i8hibsh

[Fraggle]

18 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Still trying to work out what Kio does?  That aside, playing Dev and Kio at the same time seemed pointless and highlights the lack of choice in midfield of different types to help change style.  Could Pollock have played to give us some brain and vision from the centre?

 

Kio sat in being an extra centre half at times. Complete waste of a role. 

When I caught the first half yesterday there appeared to be cavernous gaps in the central midfield areas, anything going forward went (predictably) down the wings, having been passed side to side by the defense.

 

Neilson appears to favour attacking down the flanks, but, I think our best attacking play comes from pushing the ball through the middle channel and running at the opposition. The passing seems to be crisper, faster, interchangeable, prettier on the eye, and less predictable. Not saying it all has to be down the middle, but there needs to be more of it, as it also opens up the wings and gives our guys out wide a bit more space to work in. 

[BackOfTheNet]

Firstly, the obligatory (whether we win, lose or draw) statement that no, I don’t think he should be sacked.

 

Secondly, people on both sides (or somewhere in the middle) really need to stop using straw man arguments and focus on individual performances. You’re turning yourselves in knots. Talking about budgets to support your arguments, but contradicting yourselves depending on who we play. (Example, saying we should not expect anything against the OF because of budgets, but then saying it doesn’t matter when we drop points against teams with lesser budgets than us) Or maybe other teams only took points off Rangers because they were at home, and we played them away. Then that doesn’t explain us dropping points at home or being knocked out of a cup.
 

The other straw man argument is the “we’re 4 points off 3rd”. This, of course, is true. We’re also 4 points ahead of 9th. 6 points ahead of 11th. That’s how much weight these arguments hold. Pointing to being 4 points off 3rd with 23 games to go has just as much credence for us coming 3rd as it does 9th. You’re making an assumption based on the flimsiest of stats, and using it as a stick to beat fellow fans with. Was the same when the last international break happened and it was all ‘3rd in the league, 2nd in the group’. Well, we’re now 5th and finished 3rd in the group. So that argument meant nothing then, so similar arguments mean nothing now - whichever slant you prefer to try and bolster your argument.

 

To the game itself, I’m not angry at Neilson for that one. As I’m not sure what people were expecting. The team was pretty unsurprising, set up the usual way, was working for the most of the first half and we made chances and didn’t capitalise. As like what happened at Almondvale, Martindale sussed out the plan and changed accordingly, McKay was doubled up on (we haven’t found a way to combat that since last season), Ginnelly was doubled up on, and Snodgrass - who looked knackered after 3 games in a week - was also doubled up on. Allowed other players to have freedom on the ball, but with those players tied up the possession was ineffectual. Again though, we had no response to the tactical adaptation of our opponents. And the only change of shape saw Forrest come on for Kio (who was one foul away from a sending off), but then Connor Smith was brought on to re-establish that shape. Then of course, the sending off.

 

As I said in the ratings thread, the sending off and penalty save in a weird way might have salvaged us a point. I said just before it when they were 1-0 up it just looked like one of those days where we’d never score. If they score the penalty and go 2-0 up, it’s curtains. If there’s no sending off or penalty, the way the game was going there’s every chance it finishes 1-0. But the penalty save gave us that belief we were still in it, we then upped our game, threw bodies forward and Ginnelly’s thundercrack gets us the point.

 

I know, another long post. The adults among you will either read it or choose not to and ignore. The children among you might read the first line and either think you can have a pop at what I’ve said without reading what I’ve said or make a snide remark about the length of my post. That fine, as that would make you as predictable as the ‘Robbie oot’ brigade frothing while sitting on their own on the bus home or in the pub after the game. Or, indeed, as predictable as Neilson’s tactical approach.

Edited November 13, 2022 by BackOfTheNet

[Rampant]

3 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

 The other straw man argument is the “we’re 4 points off 3rd”. This, of course, is true. We’re also 4 points ahead of 9th. 6 points ahead of 11th. That’s how much weight these arguments hold. Pointing to being 4 points off 3rd with 23 games to go has just as much credence for us coming 3rd as it does 9th. You’re making an assumption based on the flimsiest of stats, and using it as a stick to beat fellow fans with. Was the same when the last international break happened and it was all ‘3rd in the league, 2nd in the group’. Well, we’re now 5th and finished 3rd in the group. So that argument meant nothing then, so similar arguments mean nothing now - whichever slant you prefer to try and bolster your argument.

I don't think this bit is entirely fair.

 

Not all, but I think many refer to the points differential in the context of our fixtures and injury struggles.  The gap to 3rd and 9th may be the same, but we're looking ahead to a supposed easier run of games and a fuller strength team when we come to play them, hence the optimism looking up at 3rd and not down at 9th.

 

I'm not deliberately ignoring your other points, I just don't have the time to properly address them now. You make an effort to be reasoned in your critiques and deserve an equivalent response.  But the above point did leap out and I wanted to weigh in briefly.

[BackOfTheNet]

3 minutes ago, Rampant said:

I don't think this bit is entirely fair.

 

Not all, but I think many refer to the points differential in the context of our fixtures and injury struggles.  The gap to 3rd and 9th may be the same, but we're looking ahead to a supposed easier run of games and a fuller strength team when we come to play them, hence the optimism looking up at 3rd and not down at 9th.

 

I'm not deliberately ignoring your other points, I just don't have the time to properly address them now. You make an effort to be reasoned in your critiques and deserve an equivalent response.  But the above point did leap out and I wanted to weigh in briefly.

I know why people use them, but as a statistic or point to make it’s flimsy at best. It’s not wrong, of course it’s factual as we are only 4 points off 3rd. And I myself would imagine it’s more likely we’ll be 3rd than 9th. I’m just saying people should really stop using it like it’s some winning argument or debate stopper, as it holds very little weight on its own. As much weight as finishing 9th would have - on that argument alone.

[Jingle Bells]

9 hours ago, the posh bit said:

 

The state of this. 😀

Sergio is performing miracles to keep them up let alone top ten 

[pettigrewsstylist]

1 hour ago, Fraggle said:

When I caught the first half yesterday there appeared to be cavernous gaps in the central midfield areas, anything going forward went (predictably) down the wings, having been passed side to side by the defense.

 

Neilson appears to favour attacking down the flanks, but, I think our best attacking play comes from pushing the ball through the middle channel and running at the opposition. The passing seems to be crisper, faster, interchangeable, prettier on the eye, and less predictable. Not saying it all has to be down the middle, but there needs to be more of it, as it also opens up the wings and gives our guys out wide a bit more space to work in. 

We dont have anyone capable of that in a sustained fashion, (they are expensive and hard to come by IMO). Snodgrass, at times. Humph seems the best bet.

[JimBett365]

I’m glad we’ve had Robbie here to steer us through the difficult league fixtures we’ve had, the ridiculous level of injuries and our European challenge.
 

Fully confident we’re on course for a comfortable 3rd place finish. Like the way we’re developing players like Cochrane, Devlin and Rowles too. Only going to make more players of that calibre want to join.

 

Doesn’t bear thinking about where we’d be under the management of someone like Lee Johnson 🤣

[CrawleyJambo]

6 minutes ago, JimBett365 said:

I’m glad we’ve had Robbie here to steer us through the difficult league fixtures we’ve had, the ridiculous level of injuries and our European challenge.
 

Fully confident we’re on course for a comfortable 3rd place finish. Like the way we’re developing players like Cochrane, Devlin and Rowles too. Only going to make more players of that calibre want to join.

 

Doesn’t bear thinking about where we’d be under the management of someone like Lee Johnson 🤣

 

[Byyy The Light]

1 hour ago, BackOfTheNet said:

I know why people use them, but as a statistic or point to make it’s flimsy at best. It’s not wrong, of course it’s factual as we are only 4 points off 3rd. And I myself would imagine it’s more likely we’ll be 3rd than 9th. I’m just saying people should really stop using it like it’s some winning argument or debate stopper, as it holds very little weight on its own. As much weight as finishing 9th would have - on that argument alone.

I think people use it to try and provide some balance and context. Reading some posts on here you’d think we were cut off isolated at the bottom of the league with our best squad getting hammered by 3 and 4 goals every week.

 

Its just people’s way of acknowledging we’d like to be better off but it’s not a complete disaster where we find ourselves given the circumstances. 

[Byyy The Light]

47 minutes ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

We dont have anyone capable of that in a sustained fashion, (they are expensive and hard to come by IMO). Snodgrass, at times. Humph seems the best bet.

Losing the ball when it breaks down in this area is a gift for teams who want to play on the break. Which most of our opponents do.

[Lonewolflins]

2 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

Robbie is a pub team level manager surrounded by a management team best suited for Sunday League football. 

 

Taking medical advice from juveniles, Doogie Howsers and Polytechnic graduates.

 

Training routines that make Eddie Malofeev's seem like the Red Berets.

 

All underseen by a lady that thinks it is just the taking part that counts.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Lonewolflins

[I P Knightley]

17 hours ago, JimBett365 said:

Nothing cheers me up better after a disappointing result or performance than sitting on the train home reading the hyperbolic pant-wetters on here flap their gums. 😂

I agree. I'd rather be gumming someone's flaps.

[BackOfTheNet]

7 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

I think people use it to try and provide some balance and context. Reading some posts on here you’d think we were cut off isolated at the bottom of the league with our best squad getting hammered by 3 and 4 goals every week.

 

Its just people’s way of acknowledging we’d like to be better off but it’s not a complete disaster where we find ourselves given the circumstances. 

Yes, I get that. But my point is in the same way the “4 points off 3rd” is used in the context you describe - which is perfectly legitimate - someone else can say that we’re only a few results off being in 9th. And again, this would be legitimate as if Motherwell beat us last week that’s exactly where we would be. My point is that both skews would be correct, but they would be skewed. And therefore people analysing where we’re at should be using more than just the league table. Me, personally, I’m just judging each performance on its own merits right now (albeit keeping in mind everything else to apply context to overall feelings on the subject).

[BlueRiver]

6 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Yes, I get that. But my point is in the same way the “4 points off 3rd” is used in the context you describe - which is perfectly legitimate - someone else can say that we’re only a few results off being in 9th. And again, this would be legitimate as if Motherwell beat us last week that’s exactly where we would be. My point is that both skews would be correct, but they would be skewed. And therefore people analysing where we’re at should be using more than just the league table. Me, personally, I’m just judging each performance on its own merits right now (albeit keeping in mind everything else to apply context to overall feelings on the subject).

Some are though and they’re using our  4 games against the OF coupled with away fixtures against a lot of our closest rivals to set our league position in context. 
 

We’re 4 points shy of 3rd having played Rangers and Celtic two times more than most and have had Aberdeen and Hibs away from home in our first round of fixtures. 
 

There are some negatives of course. Disappointing we’ve taken 2 points from 3 games against Killie and Livi for example. 
 

Edit: Plus we have a game in hand over many of the teams below us. 
 

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by BlueRiver

[Sooks]

18 hours ago, Cruyff said:

It's actually embarrassing. Cringing for them. 

Big cringe yesterday when the wee angry guy stormed down the stairs between PR and P and yelled at him to get out at 0-1 

[BackOfTheNet]

1 hour ago, BlueRiver said:

Some are though and they’re using our  4 games against the OF coupled with away fixtures against a lot of our closest rivals to set our league position in context. 
 

We’re 4 points shy of 3rd having played Rangers and Celtic two times more than most and have had Aberdeen and Hibs away from home in our first round of fixtures. 
 

There are some negatives of course. Disappointing we’ve taken 2 points from 3 games against Killie and Livi for example. 
 

Edit: Plus we have a game in hand over many of the teams below us. 
 

 

Again, this is straw man hypothetical stuff. It doesn’t address what the season has been like up until now, it only imagines what the season will be like in the future. What happens if we get another 10 injuries for example? What happens if Aberdeen put a run together? What happens if we lose to teams like Kilmarnock, Dundee United and Motherwell, but Aberdeen manage to beat Rangers. All ifs, buts and maybes. Valid discussion points, but not answers to what the season has been like so far.