Robbie!!! ( merged )

[Riccarton3]

8 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Similar . It would be nice , and it goes on our records , but it was completely devalued by the removal of a European spot . 

When you've only won 16 major competitions in over 150 years, it means the LC maintains its value. For me, anyway. Ran since mid 40s so has decent history. Neither Glasgow team has deemed it too much of a poor relation as seen by how much they still celebrate a win. And rarely play reserves.  Re Euro qualification, it can just be looked at without this as what it is, a major domestic honour.

 

 

[Sarajevo5-1]

18 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

Firstly I note that you are ignoring my first post, which showed that your claim that we played a full team against Killie was untrue. 
 

On your comment above, as I said it’s all about priorities as subsequently discussed at length by a couple of sensible posters .

 

Finally I always think that resorting to silly wee e-mojis undermines any sensible point that you may have been trying to make. 

 

We did play a full team against Killie didnt we? I'd quite like us to win the odd Cup, not making any apologies for that...and I'm fine with priorities as long as we deliver. We need to finish 3rd or win a Cup or progress in Europe. For me that would be progress and a good season clearly.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Sarajevo5-1

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

When you've only won 16 major competitions in over 150 years, it means the LC maintains its value. For me, anyway. Ran since mid 40s so has decent history. Neither Glasgow team has deemed it too much of a poor relation as seen by how much they still celebrate a win. And rarely play reserves.  Re Euro qualification, it can just be looked at without this as what it is, a major domestic honour.

 

 

All about opinions and that was mine . As I said nice win a trophy but it has been majorly devalued with the removal of the European place . I can not see how that can be denied . All its value now is linked to nostalgia and history . Take Raith Rovers winning it in 1994 , they were rewarded with a game against Bayern Munich where they actually took the lead for a while 

 

Nope , I get the history of us winning it , and as I said I would quite like to see us lift it at some point in my life I suppose , but really hard to give a toss these days either way

 

 

[Sarajevo5-1]

15 hours ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

What is this mysterious “Killie” at home that you keep mentioning? Are you talking about the LC game, the least important game of the season? The one that came just three days after a league win against St Johnstone that proved costly in terms of injuries? The one that saw  Atkinson, Halkett, Rowles, Kingsley all missing at back? The one that saw Boyce missing up front but Humphrys not yet available to replace him? Full team my arse. 

Ah here we are. We didnt play any young players or reserves in this game, all first team squad players.  Not sure whats mysterious about it. League Cup tie at home. We were shite. We lost. Disappointing. We dont win many trophies. I get the priorities bit but for me this was a terrible result.

[Sarajevo5-1]

Surely we can be third and also try to win the League Cup. Jeez is this modern football now. A hard game on a Saturday so we'll just not bother on the Wednesday. Are some Hearts fans seriously not bothered about doing well in the League Cup. I'm sure Robbie would love a Cup win. Would cement his reputation. Look at the stick Levein gets and he was third numerous times.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Sarajevo5-1

[Riccarton3]

1 minute ago, Sarajevo5-1 said:

Surely we can be third and also try to win the League Cup. Jeez is this modern football now. A hard game on a Saturday so we'll just not bother on the Wednesday. Are some Hearts fans seriously not bothered about doing well in the League Cup. A bit of an eye opener. Opinions etc!

You'll need to work.on your stamina if you want to survive it all

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 minute ago, Sarajevo5-1 said:

Surely we can be third and also try to win the League Cup. Jeez is this modern football now. A hard game on a Saturday so we'll just not bother on the Wednesday. Are some Hearts fans seriously not bothered about doing well in the League Cup. A bit of an eye opener. Opinions etc!

I'd like to do the treble and have a long run in Europe but I'm happy if we can progress. This season should have been about putting some distance between ourselves and 4th, making the most of Europe and getting a trophy if possible.  Losing a league Cup tie however annoying it was on the night was hardly the end of the world. 

[TheBigO]

2 minutes ago, Sarajevo5-1 said:

Surely we can be third and also try to win the League Cup. Jeez is this modern football now. A hard game on a Saturday so we'll just not bother on the Wednesday. Are some Hearts fans seriously not bothered about doing well in the League Cup. A bit of an eye opener. Opinions etc!

No one is saying that.  Or I'm certainly not, if you have me in that bracket.

 

Just not bother on the Wednesday is hardly modern football.  12 players injured and 8 extra games is our current (or was at the time of that game) predicament.  All anyone is saying is in the grand scheme of things, not the worst thing in the world we went out.

 

Wee bit different to glad we didn't try or, indeed, even thinking we didn't try!

 

Of course we can be 3rd and win it.  But also this is a forum where we discuss shite.  You don't ACTUALLY have to choose which you want.  Hypothetical.  This season, for the greater good, I say 3rd.  Wouldn't usually.  Hope we win the Scottish too.

[Sarajevo5-1]

2 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I'd like to do the treble and have a long run in Europe but I'm happy if we can progress. This season should have been about putting some distance between ourselves and 4th, making the most of Europe and getting a trophy if possible.  Losing a league Cup tie however annoying it was on the night was hardly the end of the world. 

Not its not but it does say something about our mentality.

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Sarajevo5-1 said:

Not its not but it does say something about our mentality.

 

What does it say about our mentality and who is our 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

3 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Nobody's fault except Robbie's it would seem. 

 

What isn't? Who's saying this? What are you talking about?

 

49 minutes ago, Sarajevo5-1 said:

I dont want to just settle for third is probably what I'm saying. There's almost something patronising about the pundits patting us on the back for it. There you go best of the rest but not bothering the OF. Aberdeen had this before us. Of course I know we'll play crap and lose sometimes. But a Hearts team should strive to win every single game. We should aim to challenge in the league and win the Cup competitions. The biggest didappointment of this season so far is that loss to Kilmarnock. Followed by that home defeat to Fiorentina. Yes they are a top top side but we were shite that night. Even the Rangers Cup Final, never really looked like winning the game. First half against Zurich and the Celtic game shows us what a Hearts team can be like. We lost both games but can take pride in how we played. You get the Ying and the Yang with Robbie. Undoubted progress on the park and off it though. Need to keep pushing and keep improving. Robbie needs a trophy to cement his reputation, for me anyway. Not suggesting for a minute we get rid of him of course not but he's not beyong criticism either.

 

The point is always that the gap between us and the OF is monstrous. We want to bridge that gap. I believe we can bridge that gap. But Robbie took over a basket case of a team a little more than two years ago. That gap is not going to be bridged in two years!

 

With McInnes at Aberdeen, he had them above (admittedly weak) Rangers teams multiple times (as did Robbie for that matter). If he stays on last season, I think there's a chance he gets them past Qarabag and into the ECL group stages, and they end up having the cash bonanza that we're now going to get to reap. That was solid work after taking over a club loaded with deluded fans which even a steady hand like Craig Brown had been unable to do anything with. Most of the prior decade before he came they were a bottom 6 team.

 

We've barely even begun to spend the money that Robbie has made for us with this run. If he manages to do it again, we'll get even more money to spend. And in two years we could have a side with a few players of significantly higher quality than we have now. FFS, why does that sound so bad? I would far rather do that than just win one more trophy!

 

9 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

When you've only won 16 major competitions in over 150 years, it means the LC maintains its value. For me, anyway. Ran since mid 40s so has decent history. Neither Glasgow team has deemed it too much of a poor relation as seen by how much they still celebrate a win. And rarely play reserves.  Re Euro qualification, it can just be looked at without this as what it is, a major domestic honour.

 

I agree that I want to see us do well in the LC. Just like Hibs in the SC, it's just one of those weird things that happens in sport and will come to an end at some point. We'll get one eventually. But given the state of our team while the competition is going on this season, it doesn't feel like much of a loss that we missed out on this one.

[Sarajevo5-1]

4 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

No one is saying that.  Or I'm certainly not, if you have me in that bracket.

 

Just not bother on the Wednesday is hardly modern football.  12 players injured and 8 extra games is our current (or was at the time of that game) predicament.  All anyone is saying is in the grand scheme of things, not the worst thing in the world we went out.

 

Wee bit different to glad we didn't try or, indeed, even thinking we didn't try!

 

Of course we can be 3rd and win it.  But also this is a forum where we discuss shite.  You don't ACTUALLY have to choose which you want.  Hypothetical.  This season, for the greater good, I say 3rd.  Wouldn't usually.  Hope we win the Scottish too.

All correct. Of course injuries have been a nightmare. But closing the door to one route of potential success seems odd to me. 3rd or a Cup win or progress in Europe would have been Robbies remit this season. For me that shows the progress we've made. And the progress Robbies made.

[i wish jj was my dad]

4 minutes ago, Sarajevo5-1 said:

Not its not but it does say something about our mentality.

That we lost a game? Hardly. If I was broken every time we lost I'd find another hobby. 

[i wish jj was my dad]

1 minute ago, Led Tasso said:

 

What isn't? Who's saying this? What are you talking about?

 

 

 

Read the thread. 

[Riccarton3]

7 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

What isn't? Who's saying this? What are you talking about?

 

 

The point is always that the gap between us and the OF is monstrous. We want to bridge that gap. I believe we can bridge that gap. But Robbie took over a basket case of a team a little more than two years ago. That gap is not going to be bridged in two years!

 

With McInnes at Aberdeen, he had them above (admittedly weak) Rangers teams multiple times (as did Robbie for that matter). If he stays on last season, I think there's a chance he gets them past Qarabag and into the ECL group stages, and they end up having the cash bonanza that we're now going to get to reap. That was solid work after taking over a club loaded with deluded fans which even a steady hand like Craig Brown had been unable to do anything with. Most of the prior decade before he came they were a bottom 6 team.

 

We've barely even begun to spend the money that Robbie has made for us with this run. If he manages to do it again, we'll get even more money to spend. And in two years we could have a side with a few players of significantly higher quality than we have now. FFS, why does that sound so bad? I would far rather do that than just win one more trophy!

 

 

I agree that I want to see us do well in the LC. Just like Hibs in the SC, it's just one of those weird things that happens in sport and will come to an end at some point. We'll get one eventually. But given the state of our team while the competition is going on this season, it doesn't feel like much of a loss that we missed out on this one.

Not enough to troll about it. Both Celtic n Rangers still in the draw. Limited chance had we got past Kilmarnock and then Dundee U

[Sarajevo5-1]

It would be remiss of course, when talking about Cups, not to point out that Robbies had us in 2 SC finals and was within a penalty kick of winning us one. We should want to be a club that wins trophies is my point. 

[August Landmesser]

1 hour ago, Sinbad the Sailor said:

FFS 159 pages of keech

 

[Sooks]

Just now, Sarajevo5-1 said:

It would be remiss of course, when talking about Cups, not to point out that Robbies had us in 2 SC finals and was within a penalty kick of winning us one. We should want to be a club that wins trophies is my point. 

 

Every one wants that . but the Scottish Cup is far more prestigious and important and it actually comes with a decent reward , unlike the totally devalued League Cup 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

2 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Read the thread. 

 

I've been reading the whole sorry thread since it's beginning. Folk are talking about 5 different things, and you didn't quote anyone to make it clear what you were referring to.

 

Was it Robbie's fault we lost badly to Fiorentina? The answer to that question is of course neither yes or no. Maybe we could have set up better. But to suggest that Robbie's the only or even anything close to the main reason that we lost those games is absolute ****ing pap and that's why I'm asking you to clarify, since it's such a stupid, asinine point to make I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're talking about something else.

[Sarajevo5-1]

8 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

I've been reading the whole sorry thread since it's beginning. Folk are talking about 5 different things, and you didn't quote anyone to make it clear what you were referring to.

 

Was it Robbie's fault we lost badly to Fiorentina? The answer to that question is of course neither yes or no. Maybe we could have set up better. But to suggest that Robbie's the only or even anything close to the main reason that we lost those games is absolute ****ing pap and that's why I'm asking you to clarify, since it's such a stupid, asinine point to make I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're talking about something else.

Was it Robbies fault we lost so badly to Fiorentina at home? Well yes clearly.

Was it down to Robbie we played well against RFS. Well yes clearly.

If he's not effecting the team then he shouldnt be manager? His side, his tactics.

 

[Lido]

53 minutes ago, Sarajevo5-1 said:

We did play a full team against Killie didnt we? I'd quite like us to win the odd Cup, not making any apologies for that...and I'm fine with priorities as long as we deliver. We need to finish 3rd or win a Cup or progress in Europe. For me that would be progress and a good season clearly.

If I remember correctly, there were eight players unavailable for selection for that Killie LC game.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

4 minutes ago, Sarajevo5-1 said:

Was it Robbies fault we lost so badly to Fiorentina at home? Well yes clearly.

Was it down to Robbie we played well against RFS. Well yes clearly.

If he's not effecting the team then he shouldnt be manager? His side, his tactics.

 

 

"Fault" is such a silly word here, which is why I'm calling it out. Did Robbie bear responsibility for some of it? Of course. Was he the main reason we were worse than Fiorentina or better than RFS? No, most surely not, we have much better players than RFS and much worse players than Fiorentina.  Similarly, to bring up a dusty old JKB chestnut, Mourinho probably could have done better than Gary Locke in the admin year, but it wasn't Locke's fault we got relegated. It was Vlad's.

 

"Fault" implies either sole or primary responsibility to me. Robbie gets some credit for RFS and some blame for Fiorentina. And I don't think anyone is arguing that.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Led Tasso
clarity

[jr ewing]

1 hour ago, Vlad Magic said:

No idea what anyone else thinks but I genuinely do not give to hoots about the league cup.

 

Never have never will.

 

Scottish Cup and European qualification for me every time.

Best chance of winning something. 

[Sarajevo5-1]

3 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

"Fault" is such a silly word here, which is why I'm calling it out. Did Robbie bear responsibility for some of it? Of course. Was he the main reason we were worse than Fiorentina or better than RFS? No, most surely not, we have much better players than RFS and much worse players than Fiorentina.  Similarly, to bring up a dusty old JKB chestnut, Mourinho probably could have done better than Gary Locke in the admin year, but it wasn't Locke's fault we got relegated. It was Vlad's.

 

"Fault" implies either sole or primary responsibility to me. Robbie gets some credit for RFS and some blame for Fiorentina. And I don't think anyone is arguing that.

Yes fault not a great word. But the manager does carry the can

[Sooks]

9 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Best chance of winning something. 

Not really when you consider our last three trophies were the Scottish Cup 

[Riccarton3]

6 minutes ago, Sarajevo5-1 said:

Yes fault not a great word. But the manager does carry the can

With the obvious fight and determination there in the last few performances, lets get away from 'fault' generalisations and start laying out what's wrong. There must be more than carrying  the can for results. Every coach falls into that category.

[frankblack]

41 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

That we lost a game? Hardly. If I was broken every time we lost I'd find another hobby. 

 

If you can't handle the ups and downs with a club like Hearts then you need to find another team.

[Thunder and Lightning]

2 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

The supporters that don't like Robbie are quite a fanatical lot.

 

Sometimes I wish I could care as much !!

We know. 

 

You post regularly to tell us you don't care... 😂 

[Sooks]

17 minutes ago, Thunder and Lightning said:

We know. 

 

You post regularly to tell us you don't care... 😂 

Regularly since October ?

[Sarajevo5-1]

2 hours ago, Sooks said:

 

What does it say about our mentality and who is our 

That we’re not bothered about losing certain games. Defeatist for me that.

[Sarajevo5-1]

1 hour ago, Riccarton3 said:

With the obvious fight and determination there in the last few performances, lets get away from 'fault' generalisations and start laying out what's wrong. There must be more than carrying  the can for results. Every coach falls into that category.

I must have missed the obvious fight and determination against Livingston? I thought we were lacklustre in the extreme.

[Sarajevo5-1]

1 hour ago, jr ewing said:

Best chance of winning something. 

Correct. A virtual bye to the semi final.

[Bull's-eye]

6 minutes ago, Sarajevo5-1 said:

That we’re not bothered about losing certain games. Defeatist for me that.

 

If everyone was like you there'd be no crayons left for the kiddies after a defeat.

 

Some supporters get upset and it ruins their life.

Believe it or not, others don't.

 

 

[jr ewing]

1 minute ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

If everyone was like you there'd be no crayons left for the kiddies after a defeat.

 

Some supporters get upset and it ruins their life.

Believe it or not, others don't.

 

 

Nothing wrong with wanting to win 🏆 

[Vlad Magic]

1 hour ago, jr ewing said:

Best chance of winning something. 

Statistically it isn’t.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

5 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

So which user got thread banned recently and Sarajevo has gone digging for an old account to use?

 

There was a particular kind of drumbeat that's gone on around here for months that's been silent since Saturday.

[Sooks]

25 minutes ago, Sarajevo5-1 said:

That we’re not bothered about losing certain games. Defeatist for me that.

The fans or the team

[Bull's-eye]

17 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Nothing wrong with wanting to win 🏆 

 

Nothing wrong with not losing your gizzards when you don't 😜

[BackOfTheNet]

Must admit, assumed this thread would go away until the Kilmarnock game. It has effectively been used as a match day ratings / discussion thread for the manager’s performance for that game (with various response types, I grant you), so with no games not sure what’s new to be discussed here.

Edited November 17, 2022 by BackOfTheNet

[Sarajevo5-1]

3 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Must admit, assumed this thread would go away until the Kilmarnock game. It has effectively been used as a match day ratings / discussion thread for the manager’s performance for that game (with various response types, I grant you), so with no games not sure what’s new to be discussed here.

Yeah that was me sorry. Will learn the rules as I go!

[i wish jj was my dad]

4 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

If you can't handle the ups and downs with a club like Hearts then you need to find another team.

Bang on. 

[i wish jj was my dad]

4 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

 

I've been reading the whole sorry thread since it's beginning. Folk are talking about 5 different things, and you didn't quote anyone to make it clear what you were referring to.

 

Was it Robbie's fault we lost badly to Fiorentina? The answer to that question is of course neither yes or no. Maybe we could have set up better. But to suggest that Robbie's the only or even anything close to the main reason that we lost those games is absolute ****ing pap and that's why I'm asking you to clarify, since it's such a stupid, asinine point to make I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you're talking about something else.

It's quite simple. Robbie is on a hiding to nothing. It is obvious that folk want him oot and short of winning the treble they will still want him oot. 

 

I should have maybe put a smiley on my post but the post immediately above should have been enough of a clue if my other posts on the subject weren't

[i wish jj was my dad]

2 hours ago, Sarajevo5-1 said:

That we’re not bothered about losing certain games. Defeatist for me that.

Nobody is not bothered but 99% of us don't lose their shit with every setback. 

[August Landmesser]

5 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Best chance of winning something. 

It's a decent chance of winning something meaningless. It's easier to win the Championship, which we've done twice recently and it could be argued, is more meaningful than the LC as winning the Championship gets you into the Prem, which gives you a chance to get into Europe.

 

The LC wins you a chance of getting fk all, apart from a day at Hampden woop de doop

 

[jr ewing]

18 minutes ago, August Landmesser said:

It's a decent chance of winning something meaningless. It's easier to win the Championship, which we've done twice recently and it could be argued, is more meaningful than the LC as winning the Championship gets you into the Prem, which gives you a chance to get into Europe.

 

The LC wins you a chance of getting fk all, apart from a day at Hampden woop de doop

 

Would go to the final though 🤔 

[i wish jj was my dad]

16 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Would go to the final though 🤔 

I would. And i would want to win. We go into every game wanting to win but losing in the early rounds when there are much bigger prizes at stake I won't lose my shit. 

[August Landmesser]

26 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I would. And i would want to win. We go into every game wanting to win but losing in the early rounds when there are much bigger prizes at stake I won't lose my shit. 

This.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

2 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

It's quite simple. Robbie is on a hiding to nothing. It is obvious that folk want him oot and short of winning the treble they will still want him oot. 

 

I should have maybe put a smiley on my post but the post immediately above should have been enough of a clue if my other posts on the subject weren't

 

Sorry, this is the second time in a few days I've missed sarcasm or irony. It's been a week—surgery recovery (minor, I'm fine, just sore) and a bairn with an ear infection. Apologies.

[i wish jj was my dad]

4 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Sorry, this is the second time in a few days I've missed sarcasm or irony. It's been a week—surgery recovery (minor, I'm fine, just sore) and a bairn with an ear infection. Apologies.

No need to apologise, buddy. And certainly no need to explain. 

 

Most of us are good jambos and I kinda work on that basis. 

 

I got upset on a shed thread with an issue I cared about and got battered so I understand.

[Ex member of the SaS]

This quote from the Scotsman sums up my problem with Robbie:

 

 

 

Neilson has fielded 10 different players within a back three or four system with 20 different combinations across the 24 fixtures.