*** Hearts Winter Transfer Thread - Henderson and Connor Smith loaned out***

[Dazo]

14 minutes ago, Dougie Masterton said:

 

What part of Joe Savage says that terms have been agreed with Paterson don’t you understand? The issue with this deal is agreeing a fee with SW, nothing to do with hundreds of thousands of pounds due to Paterson. 

Maybe the deal was agreed with Paterson on the assumption Sheffield would pay up his part of the deal. 

[Absolute Scenes]

1 minute ago, Gmcjambo said:

It’s a big fee to shell out for 4 months worth of football though vs precontract.   We don’t need Paterson to finish 3rd imo.   Would help in any cup run but for me it’s ‘nice to have’ not ‘need to have’.   If we can do a deal because SW are looking to get him of the wage bill, bring in someone else then great,  but we shouldn’t be paying £500k for him,  and I can’t believe we would do. 

i think for me, i think back to that Rangers final, where we lacked across the park and I feel he would have made a big difference. BUt i agree, its a large fee to pay for someone we can get for free, who also wouldn't put us into a bidding war. 

Just nice to know we can chuck these fees around now    

[Lovecraft]

6 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

The caveat is should we spend £500k we don’t have to. As we’ll get him for free in the summer. Get the player in for just over 4 months sooner at a cost of £500k or get him in the summer for nothing. Personally with that information the £500k (or even £200k) becomes much steeper.

I like Paterson but we shouldn't be spending that amount of money getting him in now.

 

Could be seen as the risk between us getting 3rd this season though.  He has been playing, is match fit and also knows the club.

 

 

 

 

[John Findlay]

7 minutes ago, Lovecraft said:

Souttar (The one that still plays football) off to Leicester for £15 Million.

 

That makes Rowles worth at least £10 Million.

 

 

It makes Rowles currently worth the same in my book. They were both the Australian central defence partnership at the world cup.

[JimmyCant]

6 minutes ago, Dougie Masterton said:

Joe Savage mentioned it at a recent shareholders dinner. 

Agreeing ‘terms’ with Paterson seems to be the easy part if that’s the case. As long as we’re not picking up his loyalty cheque and paying it to him ourselves that’s fine. Just a weekly wage.

 

£500k to whoever it is that pockets it for maximum 19 games is simply not good business though. £200k aye okay but that’s still around £10k a week to the end of May

[Batistuta87]

2 hours ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Just noticed on SKY Sports that Bournemouth have signed 2 defenders… I wonder if this would give us a chance to sign Hill after his loan… or, at least, extend for 12 months.  

I'd love to have Hill permanently. Made my mind up very early on. 

 

Have a feeling it will be another Simms scenario though, where our only chance will be another loan because Bournemouth will want a transfer fee that we probably can't justify. That said, I would think that if we qualify for Europe again this season, paying £500k, maybe even £1M for the right players, might become a thing. 

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Batistuta87

[Lovecraft]

7 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

It makes Rowles currently worth the same in my book. They were both the Australian central defence partnership at the world cup.

I agree, but Souttar is coming from an English club.

 

 

[Rogue Daddy]

1 minute ago, Batistuta87 said:

I'd love to have Hill permanently. Made my mind up very early on. 

 

Have a feeling it will be another Simms scenario though, where our only chance will be another loan because Bournemouth will want a transfer fee that we probably can't justify. That said, I would think that if we qualify for Europe again this season, paying £500k, maybe even £1M for the right players, might become a thing. 

 

Yeah - you can just tell he's a player! Keeping my fingers crossed he stays with us for next season.... I think that would give us a fighting chance to keep him.

[Biffa Bacon]

12 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Maybe the deal was agreed with Paterson on the assumption Sheffield would pay up his part of the deal. 

Business does not work on the basis that someone else might be picking up an outstanding bill.

[Riccarton3]

11 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

It makes Rowles currently worth the same in my book. They were both the Australian central defence partnership at the world cup.

Needs to bulk up some for the specimens he'd face in the English leagues. Acknowledged that himself.

[JimmyCant]

21 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

It makes Rowles currently worth the same in my book. They were both the Australian central defence partnership at the world cup.

He’s got similar potential to attract that kind of fee somewhere down the line, which is why we’ve got him tied up. But we’re a different market entirely and if we got even £5 million for him it’d be a tremendous bit of business by us. No one’s paying us £15 million

Edited January 31, 2023 by JimmyCant

[Dougie Masterton]

25 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Maybe the deal was agreed with Paterson on the assumption Sheffield would pay up his part of the deal. 

Transfer deals aren’t completed on assumptions 

[Dazo]

10 minutes ago, Biffa Bacon said:

Business does not work on the basis that someone else might be picking up an outstanding bill.

It’s their bill and nothing to do with us, why would we pay it ? That part of his agreement does nothing to stop us agreeing a deal with Paterson if he were to join us. 

[Dazo]

Just now, Dougie Masterton said:

Transfer deals aren’t completed on assumptions 

I didn’t say they were. As I’ve said above his contract with Sheffield is of no significance in agreeing a deal with him. 

[Fire_At_The_Disco]

Hate deadline day, it gives me the fear that someone could move for one of our key players. Fingers crossed on the Paterson deal though. 

[Dougie Masterton]

3 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I didn’t say they were. As I’ve said above his contract with Sheffield is of no significance in agreeing a deal with him. 

I don’t know how you work that one out.🤷‍♂️

[Dallas Green]

42 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

When you work that £500k out over what’s left of the season it’s in excess of £18k a week PLUS what we have to pay him on top which pushes it over £22k a week. He’s not worth £500k for  19 games maximum IMO

 

27 minutes ago, Gmcjambo said:

It’s a big fee to shell out for 4 months worth of football though vs precontract.   We don’t need Paterson to finish 3rd imo.   Would help in any cup run but for me it’s ‘nice to have’ not ‘need to have’

I think that 500k would be worth it as I think he adds a different attacking threat. Bear in mind that getting to the Scottish Cup final against the OF (or winning) is better for european qualification than getting 3rd. I think he will add such a threat from the delivery that Snodgrass puts in. That could win us games, turn some of these draws into wins.

[JimmyCant]

5 minutes ago, Dazo said:

I didn’t say they were. As I’ve said above his contract with Sheffield is of no significance in agreeing a deal with him. 

If we have agreed terms with Paterson without dealing with the loyalty payments issue or the fee SW might want, then it’s a pretty worthless agreement IMO and all it would really amount to is how much a week we’re going to pay him

[Dick Dastardly]

Where's the last day whelms? 

[Dazo]

4 minutes ago, Dougie Masterton said:

I don’t know how you work that one out.🤷‍♂️

Not sure what’s so tricky to work out. We’ve agreed a deal to pay him a wage and signing on fee. He’s happy so deal agreed. What has that got to do with what his Sheffield contract says ? It is then up to us to agree a deal with the club. 
 

regardless it is all a bit irrelevant really since none of us know exactly what has gone on other than Savage saying we’ve agreed a deal with Paterson. 

[Dazo]

2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

If we have agreed terms with Paterson without dealing with the loyalty payments issue or the fee SW might want, then it’s a pretty worthless agreement IMO and all it would really amount to is how much a week we’re going to pay him

Not really because of we were miles away with Paterson there would be no point trying to deal with SW. I think it’s good sense to see if we could actually afford what he is looking for especially if the deal is potentially for next season. 

[JimmyCant]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

Not really because of we were miles away with Paterson there would be no point trying to deal with SW. I think it’s good sense to see if we could actually afford what he is looking for especially if the deal is potentially for next season. 

Yes sorry I meant worthless in terms of getting him now

[Jamboj1]

1 hour ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

It's also been alleged that a pre contract would invalidate the alleged loyalty bonus 😄

If loyalty bonus was so big then we wouldn’t be wasting our time with bids imo, I was told they weren’t selling due to not having any replacements. That could change last minute today if not I hope we have a loan lined up

[JimmyCant]

A loan for what position ?

1 minute ago, Jamboj1 said:

If loyalty bonus was so big then we wouldn’t be wasting our time with bids imo, I was told they weren’t selling due to not having any replacements. That could change last minute today if not I hope we have a loan lined up

 

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

Which is why we should have nothing to do with it until he’s freed himself from the ‘complications’ otherwise we end up covering ‘complications’ that are nothing to do with us. 
 

Would we like to have him ? Yes.

 

Would we like to get him in today ? Yes.

 

Should we be paying £500k plus, most of which would appear to be going direct to Paterson ? No I don’t think we should.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting we should pay £500k for him - that’s why the deal hasn’t been done. I believe it’s all  about how much Wednesday are willing to pay him over the next five months. We have offered to help them out by paying his wages for five months as well as a small fee. It’s all down to them. If they don’t do a deal then he sees out his contract and they have to pay him six months wages plus the loyalty bonus in his current contract. 

[wavydavy]

2 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Not sure what’s so tricky to work out. We’ve agreed a deal to pay him a wage and signing on fee. He’s happy so deal agreed. What has that got to do with what his Sheffield contract says ? It is then up to us to agree a deal with the club. 
 

regardless it is all a bit irrelevant really since none of us know exactly what has gone on other than Savage saying we’ve agreed a deal with Paterson. 

 

If that is correct then the only stumbling block has to be Sheffield Wednesday not agreeing to our fee.

 

We went back with an improved offer so if they think they can brazen it out and we will succumb to what they want then we will just have to wait and see.

 

They will have to decide what is best for them either accept the fee and lose him now or dissapoint him (assuming he really wants to come to us) and he potentially downs tools until we sign him in the summer.

[Lovecraft]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

I don’t think anyone is suggesting we should pay £500k for him - that’s why the deal hasn’t been done. I believe it’s all  about how much Wednesday are willing to pay him over the next five months. We have offered to help them out by paying his wages for five months as well as a small fee. It’s all down to them. If they don’t do a deal then he sees out his contract and they have to pay him six months wages plus the loyalty bonus in his current contract. 

Possibly a promotion/play off fee too.

 

 

[soonbe110]

59 minutes ago, Dougie Masterton said:

 

What part of Joe Savage says that terms have been agreed with Paterson don’t you understand? The issue with this deal is agreeing a fee with SW, nothing to do with hundreds of thousands of pounds due to Paterson. 

The challenge of agreeing a fee with Sheff Wed is the amount of money they are due CP at the end of the season. 

[soonbe110]

11 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

If we have agreed terms with Paterson without dealing with the loyalty payments issue or the fee SW might want, then it’s a pretty worthless agreement IMO and all it would really amount to is how much a week we’re going to pay him

Key, and first part of the negotiations. Is he interested in returning and can we afford his weekly wage. Answer was yes. Now it’s all about deals between us and Wednesday and more critically between CP and Wednesday. 

[Bazzas right boot]

43 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

It makes Rowles currently worth the same in my book. They were both the Australian central defence partnership at the world cup.

 

 

Souttar was a stand out, Rowles was good but Souttar was better, looked brilliant tbh. I was surprised at how accomplished he looked while still being a old fashioned defender. 

 

 

[soonbe110]

11 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Not sure what’s so tricky to work out. We’ve agreed a deal to pay him a wage and signing on fee. He’s happy so deal agreed. What has that got to do with what his Sheffield contract says ? It is then up to us to agree a deal with the club. 
 

regardless it is all a bit irrelevant really since none of us know exactly what has gone on other than Savage saying we’ve agreed a deal with Paterson. 

And the other part is CP agreeing a deal with SW to cover the money they are due him at end of his contract. 

[Dazo]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Key, and first part of the negotiations. Is he interested in returning and can we afford his weekly wage. Answer was yes. Now it’s all about deals between us and Wednesday and more critically between CP and Wednesday. 

Yep seems to that straightforward I’m not sure why people are confused. Savage saying we have an agreement with Paterson doesn’t cover the rest of the issues to make the transfer happen. 

[jbee647]

1 hour ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Rumours in the other threads suggests he turned Millwall down because Maloney became favourite for the Wigan job. How much substance in a rumour suggesting tapping up, I don’t know.

Nesbitt never actually played under Maloney, he was injured during his entire tenure 

[Dougie Masterton]

11 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

The challenge of agreeing a fee with Sheff Wed is the amount of money they are due CP at the end of the season. 

It always amazes me how many people know the ins and outs of club transfers. 

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, jbee647 said:

Nesbitt never actually played under Maloney, he was injured during his entire tenure 

He did but only for a short period, Maloney went there late 2021 and he did his ACL in February 2022. 

[wavydavy]

10 hours ago, Drumjambo said:

 

Atkinson is what 23 has came half way round the world to play in a frantic paced,  tough league that plenty before him (eg Roy Keane and the super star Joey Barton) could not get to grips with - He has played under 20 under 23 and full international for Australia - Clearly is far better going forward than defending but can we please have a little patience with players 

 

It clearly takes some players a while to get there in this league Sibbick being an outstanding example that half of JKB had written off last year 

 

I still think he can be a success - doesn't look like Paterson is coming so maybe the lad could get a run of games??

 

Absolutely baffled by your Roy Keane and Joey Barton  comments. Assuming that was because they both played at the end of their careers in Scotland and let's face it by that time they were both finished as top class players.

 

Rowles and Devlin have also travelled half way round the world and seem to be just fine although always room for improvement.

 

You hit the nail on the head when you said that he is 23 and not great at defending. I would argue trhat he is not that great at going forward either as he tends to run into trouble or his final cross is poor.

 

But more importantly for me is his lack of chasing back to try and recover and make a challenge when he does lose the ball.

 

He did that twice in the first half against Livi.

 

As I have said previously nothing would please me more than for him and all out signings to be a success however as we all know that doesn't happen.

 

I just happen to think that Atkinson hasn't got waht it takes to make it in Scotland. That is not to say that he doesn't imporve and prove the doubters such as me wrong and I hope he does. IF he does then I will be happy to say so on here.

 

It is just my opinion which I am sharing on a football forum. 

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

Yep seems to that straightforward I’m not sure why people are confused. Savage saying we have an agreement with Paterson doesn’t cover the rest of the issues to make the transfer happen. 

Sticking point, I was told, is that when he left Cardiff SW couldn’t afford his wage demands so they agreed on deal whereby he dropped his weekly wage demands and a loyalty payment for completion of contract was added.  It’s the scale of that loyalty payment that’s the issue and who pays it if he leaves.  SW say if he leaves he isn’t entitled to it.  CP says he hasnt asked to leave so if SW agree to sell him they should pay it. 
Added complication re whether signing a pre-contract at this time negates the loyalty payment.  Pre-contracts in England usually only allowed from April 1. 
Could be true and could be baloney, just passing on what I heard. Good source. 

[soonbe110]

2 minutes ago, Dougie Masterton said:

It always amazes me how many people know the ins and outs of club transfers. 

It’s amazing isn’t it.  Lots of people can’t keep their mouths shut.  Sums up football. It’s a very small business where everybody knows everybody else.  You must be aware of that Dougie. 

[Pete Elliott]

We don’t need Paterson for the next six months. Summer will be absolutely fine.

[Pasquale for King]

23 minutes ago, Jamboj1 said:

If loyalty bonus was so big then we wouldn’t be wasting our time with bids imo, I was told they weren’t selling due to not having any replacements. That could change last minute today if not I hope we have a loan lined up

The loyalty bonus would need to be paid thus negating any fee we give them, they then are probably worse off without him and no money to replace him. 

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Pete Elliott said:

We don’t need Paterson for the next six months. Summer will be absolutely fine.

We do need someone to win headers in both boxes, Halliday is the only player who has scored from the great crosses from Snodgrass. 

[kingantti1874]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

We do need someone to win headers in both boxes, Halliday is the only player who has scored from the great crosses from Snodgrass. 

Yep we 100% do need him imo.  We will “probably” still finish 3rd but we will win more points with Calum and have a better shout in the cup.

 

**** this jam tomorrow thinking .  If we can do it get it done 

[Dougie Masterton]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

It’s amazing isn’t it.  Lots of people can’t keep their mouths shut.  Sums up football. It’s a very small business where everybody knows everybody else.  You must be aware of that Dougie. 

I’m retired now, but from my time in business (The same company for 43 years) shopfloor wages were common knowledge but staff salaries were private affairs. I would say that is the same for football club, nobody knows what each individual player earns, with the expectation of senior managers. You can work out a rough average with the club accounts each year but not the finer details. It doesn’t become common knowledge. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

Yep we 100% do need him imo.  We will “probably” still finish 3rd but we will win more points with Calum and have a better shout in the cup.

 

**** this jam tomorrow thinking .  If we can do it get it done 

Exactly. Imagine Paterson attacking Snodgrass crosses. 

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Exactly. Imagine Paterson attacking Snodgrass crosses. 

exactly.  Also, he’s presence will literlaly demand attention from the opposition.  
 

more space for everyone else.  
 

that is why ellis simms was so effective. 

[Stendelnator]

Paterson would have been the ideal striker for Livi on Sunday when we had to play direct. 

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, Dougie Masterton said:

I’m retired now, but from my time in business (The same company for 43 years) shopfloor wages were common knowledge but staff salaries were private affairs. I would say that is the same for football club, nobody knows what each individual player earns, with the expectation of senior managers. You can work out a rough average with the club accounts each year but not the finer details. It doesn’t become common knowledge. 

Players talk,Fitzroy Simpson used to walk about saying another day another grand.
Players regularly talk to each other about wages on international duty which usually leads to guys asking for more money or leaving. 
 

[Dallas Green]

10 minutes ago, Pete Elliott said:

We don’t need Paterson for the next six months. Summer will be absolutely fine.

Yes we do. His threat from Snodgrass set pieces would be frightening. Not to mention his ability to win a defensive header too.

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

exactly.  Also, he’s presence will literlaly demand attention from the opposition.  
 

more space for everyone else.  
 

that is why ellis simms was so effective. 

Spot on. 

 

3 minutes ago, Stendelnator said:

Paterson would have been the ideal striker for Livi on Sunday when we had to play direct. 

Definitely, Cowdenbeath away springs to mind. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said:

Yep we 100% do need him imo.  We will “probably” still finish 3rd but we will win more points with Calum and have a better shout in the cup.

 

**** this jam tomorrow thinking .  If we can do it get it done 

Equally we as a club live within our means and do not overspend money we don’t have. 

 

He has a club and they are in the driving seat. Not everything is in our control. He is contracted to his club.  

 

To me sometimes the simplest most obvious theory is the one I tend to go with. The Sheffield Wednesdays manager is going for promotion and is simply not going to allow the player to leave without adequate replacement. Much the same as us with Souttar last season. For that reason and that reason only, for me this one is not a goer today. Unless we hear Wednesday have signed someone

 

https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/sheffield-wednesday-set-to-see-off-late-interest-in-star-man-josh-windass-similar-tale-with-two-more-4007481 Josh Windass and 2 others clubs are trying to get (assume 1 will be Paterson) - none of them are leaving Sheffield Wednesday today.