Edinburgh refuse/bin collection strike starts this week...

[frankblack]

Just now, The Mighty Thor said:

No that is correct.

 

The SG don't set UK fiscal policy or control the levers of the UK economy. The WM government do and they're failing abysmally at it.

 

Furthermore the current inflation means that the SG's block grant that it uses to set its budgets is currently worth 11% less thanks to the inflationary policies of the WM government and could potentially be worth 18% or 22% less. 

 

So.... the SG are effectively weeing in the wind. 

 

Huge deflection and deliberately misleading.

 

The fact is I was correct in my previous statement.  The Scottish Government could change their budget and spending priorities to pay local government more - its in their hands.

 

Free, non-means tested bus passes for youths, Gaelic signposting everywhere on signs, train stations, emergency vehicles etc, overseas embassies, spaces for cyclists initiative....

[Ray Gin]

6 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

 Scottish Government are responsible for the local council workers 

 

The local council are responsible for local council workers.

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Huge deflection and deliberately misleading.

 

The fact is I was correct in my previous statement.  The Scottish Government could change their budget and spending priorities to pay local government more - its in their hands.

 

Free, non-means tested bus passes for youths, Gaelic signposting everywhere on signs, train stations, emergency vehicles etc, overseas embassies, spaces for cyclists initiative....

The strikes are being taken by workers who cannot afford their bills. Their bills are going up because the energy cap has gone up to £3,500 and inflation is 11% with food inflation at over 9%

 

The SG cannot influence any of that as it's all reserved matters. 

 

The SG cannot mitigate any of that because their block grant is now worth 11% less in real terms.

 

That's not deflection. That's just counting.

[manaliveits105]

Like the strike that’s a lot of rubbish 

the SG could find the money to resolve the bin strike but it suits their agenda to make the guid Scottish people’s lives a misery and blame the UK gov. for political gain . It’s their only card as they couldn’t run a bath never mind Scotland 

 

[Dazo]

48 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

Does this mean they will empty them both into one refuse lorry thereby mixing landfill with recyclable waste or will 2 lorries visit on the same day. If the former why isn't this done all the time?

Wouldn’t mind knowing this also as the tweet is a bit ambiguous. 

[Dazo]

Looking on the Council website it looks like you do put both bins out. 

[The Gorgie]

5 hours ago, jonesy said:

Folk have a right to demand fair wages. However, tin hat on... Nobody grows up wanting to be a bin man or trains for years to become one. Therefore, I doubt it's love of the job that's keeping these guys in it. If the situation is so bad that it requires strike action, why don't they look for a different job? This isn't the same as the miners, whose jobs were largely wrapped up in their community and family.

You are right right in what you say, no one grows up wanting to be a bin man, I certainly didn't but that's why I put myself through my class 2 and became a driver. However what people seem totally oblivious to is this isn't just about the bin men getting a pay rise, its about all lower paid council workers getting an increase. I can only speak for Midlothian but that works on a grade system. Bin men, road sweeper, yards man are grade 2. So are the landscapes, storeman, cleaners. Bin men get a wage rise so do all these people with in the same grade. Bin men striking is more effective as everyone has bins. Landscapers striking leaving the grass to grow long wouldn't have the same effect.

[frankblack]

3 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Looking on the Council website it looks like you do put both bins out. 

 

Everyone has done here.  Still no sign of them as I write.

[frankblack]

42 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The strikes are being taken by workers who cannot afford their bills. Their bills are going up because the energy cap has gone up to £3,500 and inflation is 11% with food inflation at over 9%

 

The SG cannot influence any of that as it's all reserved matters. 

 

The SG cannot mitigate any of that because their block grant is now worth 11% less in real terms.

 

That's not deflection. That's just counting.

 

You still are still deliberately misleading.  The Scottish Government could change their spending priorities, draft a new budget, and give local government more money.

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Ray Gin said:

 

The local council are responsible for local council workers.

 

No individual council is responsible for pay offers.

 

Done nationally between COSLA and unions. 

[The Mighty Thor]

18 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

You still are still deliberately misleading.  The Scottish Government could change their spending priorities, draft a new budget, and give local government more money.

You're still not thinking about this. 

 

The bin men are, like everyone else, probably down £2000 this year alone thanks to the economic mismanagement of the WM government. 

 

The SG don't have the budget to give to councils for them to give £2k per head to give to all their workers. Oh and by the way that £2k probably only gets them parity on this year. They've had years of real terms wage decline. 

 

The budget the SG do have and therefore by extension the Local Authorities have is down 11% in real terms thanks to inflation. nThen you've got energy costs coming at them too. 

 

The SG or local authorities could draft and re-draft until the end of time and they would not be able to mitigate the shitshow coming at them thanks to the long term fiscal mismanagement and ill preparedness of the WM government. 

[frankblack]

21 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You're still not thinking about this. 

 

The bin men are, like everyone else, probably down £2000 this year alone thanks to the economic mismanagement of the WM government. 

 

The SG don't have the budget to give to councils for them to give £2k per head to give to all their workers. Oh and by the way that £2k probably only gets them parity on this year. They've had years of real terms wage decline. 

 

The budget the SG do have and therefore by extension the Local Authorities have is down 11% in real terms thanks to inflation. nThen you've got energy costs coming at them too. 

 

The SG or local authorities could draft and re-draft until the end of time and they would not be able to mitigate the shitshow coming at them thanks to the long term fiscal mismanagement and ill preparedness of the WM government. 

 

No, I've clearly understood it.

 

The Scottish Government could squeeze money out their budget.  No way are they giving anywhere near 11% as everyone will demand that and economy will collapse.

 

I'm not disagreeing we have a shitshow in WM with a government that needs to be removed ASAP.  However the Scottish Government has its own levers to pull, but the unions aren't going to like their answer.

 

WM isn't going to cough up the difference either.  Same problem will then hit England.

[Japan Jambo]

29 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

You're still not thinking about this. 

 

The bin men are, like everyone else, probably down £2000 this year alone thanks to the economic mismanagement of the WM government. 

 

The SG don't have the budget to give to councils for them to give £2k per head to give to all their workers. Oh and by the way that £2k probably only gets them parity on this year. They've had years of real terms wage decline. 

 

The budget the SG do have and therefore by extension the Local Authorities have is down 11% in real terms thanks to inflation. nThen you've got energy costs coming at them too. 

 

The SG or local authorities could draft and re-draft until the end of time and they would not be able to mitigate the shitshow coming at them thanks to the long term fiscal mismanagement and ill preparedness of the WM government. 

 

Inflation is not just a UK issue nor is it entirely down to the actions of the WM or Scottish Governments. But hey SNP are responsible for nothing and the Tories are out to eat our babies - am I right?

 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Inflation is not just a UK issue nor is it entirely down to the actions of the WM or Scottish Governments. But hey SNP are responsible for nothing and the Tories are out to eat our babies - am I right?

 

Inflation is not unique to the UK but what will be will be the levels of inflation we'll suffer and the length of time we'll suffer it. 

 

Same goes for interest rates. 

 

Same will go for the recession that's coming. 

 

And the energy prices. 

 

We've not had a functioning government for 3 months so no action has been taken. 

 

The SNP have got plenty they can be kicked up and down on. This isn't one of them. 

 

I've no idea on the eating babies. 

Noncing seems to be more their bag. 

[ri Alban]

I got another pay rise. That's £120 a week rise in the last month.  I  could go back to price work and double it. But feck that, too auld.

[frankblack]

4 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Inflation is not unique to the UK but what will be will be the levels of inflation we'll suffer and the length of time we'll suffer it. 

 

Same goes for interest rates. 

 

Same will go for the recession that's coming. 

 

And the energy prices. 

 

We've not had a functioning government for 3 months so no action has been taken. 

 

The SNP have got plenty they can be kicked up and down on. This isn't one of them. 

 

I've no idea on the eating babies. 

Noncing seems to be more their bag. 

 

That is complete nonsense as various people have pointed out to you numerous times.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

That is complete nonsense as various people have pointed out to you numerous times.

Who are these numerous people Frank and what have they pointed out to me?

 

So far today you think the SNP who don't even pay the COUNCIL workers can mitigate the effects of the CoL crisis by removing free bus travel or some other ill thought out nonsense. 

 

You've either not got access to the news or are being deliberately obtuse. 

 

 

[frankblack]

4 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Who are these numerous people Frank and what have they pointed out to me?

 

So far today you think the SNP who don't even pay the COUNCIL workers can mitigate the effects of the CoL crisis by removing free bus travel or some other ill thought out nonsense. 

 

You've either not got access to the news or are being deliberately obtuse. 

 

 

 

More deflection and misrepresentation.

 

You are at it.

[The Mighty Thor]

4 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

More deflection and misrepresentation.

 

You are at it.

Ah Frank, we've once again reached that point in the discussion where you wheel out your old favourites 'you're at it' or ' you're all over the place' 

 

Let's strip it back and start again. 

 

Who employs and pays the council bin men? 

 

So by logical extension they are paid from the council budget?

 

So who needs to review their spending priorities to find more money to pay council bin men? 

 

Now what has any of that got to do with the wibble about Gaelic signs, bus passes or prescriptions?

[manaliveits105]

It’s hard to believe that the binmen are still holding out after a personal appearance from Elsie who offered the same deal but with a signed framed photo for each worker 

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Ah Frank, we've once again reached that point in the discussion where you wheel out your old favourites 'you're at it' or ' you're all over the place' 

 

Let's strip it back and start again. 

 

Who employs and pays the council bin men? 

 

So by logical extension they are paid from the council budget?

 

So who needs to review their spending priorities to find more money to pay council bin men? 

 

Now what has any of that got to do with the wibble about Gaelic signs, bus passes or prescriptions?

 

 

How many times do you have to be told that local authorities have their funding controlled by the Scottish Government budget.

 

That is an indisputable fact, so in your mind (where the Scottish Government is never responsible for anything), you are trying to use the Chewbacca Defense to dispute it! 🤷‍♂️

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 

How many times do you have to be told that local authorities have their funding controlled by the Scottish Government budget.

 

That is an indisputable fact, so in your mind (where the Scottish Government is never responsible for anything), you are trying to use the Chewbacca Defense to dispute it! 🤷‍♂️

Thanks for that stunning revelation Frank. I genuinely never knew that the SG funded Scottish Councils. I thought it was the tooth fairy. 

 

So it's not up to CEC to decide how they spend their budget? Are CEC making best use of the funding they've already got from the block settlement or are they immune from scrutiny (or never responsible for anything, like council workers pay) under Frank's logic?

 

So what does the SG do in your scenario, given that i've already explained the block grant received for 22/23 is already down 11% and rising thanks to the inflationary pressures that WM is doing F all about. That means that every pound is worth 11% less in real terms (potentially worth 18-22% less by the time of the next settlement). 

 

Here's a document that you might be able to haul on to the pin you're dancing on which might help you understand the 22/23 settlement package for local authorities.

 

https://www.gov.scot/publications/local-government-finance-circular-1-2022-settlement-for-2022-23/

 

So tell me Frank, where does the money come from to mitigate the Cost of Living pressures that council workers are facing to the degree where strike action is their only option?

 

You've also missed or avoided the bit you always miss and i'm not sure how many time you need to be told it either;

 

The Scottish Government having their funding controlled by the WM block grant. They do not control all the fiscal levers. They have very limited money raising powers. 

 

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Thanks for that stunning revelation Frank. I genuinely never knew that the SG funded Scottish Councils. I thought it was the tooth fairy. 

 

So it's not up to CEC to decide how they spend their budget? Are CEC making best use of the funding they've already got from the block settlement or are they immune from scrutiny (or never responsible for anything, like council workers pay) under Frank's logic?

 

So what does the SG do in your scenario, given that i've already explained the block grant received for 22/23 is already down 11% and rising thanks to the inflationary pressures that WM is doing F all about. That means that every pound is worth 11% less in real terms (potentially worth 18-22% less by the time of the next settlement). 

 

Here's a document that you might be able to haul on to the pin you're dancing on which might help you understand the 22/23 settlement package for local authorities.

 

https://www.gov.scot/publications/local-government-finance-circular-1-2022-settlement-for-2022-23/

 

So tell me Frank, where does the money come from to mitigate the Cost of Living pressures that council workers are facing to the degree where strike action is their only option?

 

You've also missed or avoided the bit you always miss and i'm not sure how many time you need to be told it either;

 

The Scottish Government having their funding controlled by the WM block grant. They do not control all the fiscal levers. They have very limited money raising powers. 

 

 

CEC can't agree a pay deal with workers. Up to COSLA to do that. 

 

It went quiet from the SNP and Green politicians blaming Labour in Edinburgh after the rubbish started to pile up in Glasgow. 

[Dazo]

3 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Thanks for that stunning revelation Frank. I genuinely never knew that the SG funded Scottish Councils. I thought it was the tooth fairy. 

 

So it's not up to CEC to decide how they spend their budget? Are CEC making best use of the funding they've already got from the block settlement or are they immune from scrutiny (or never responsible for anything, like council workers pay) under Frank's logic?

 

So what does the SG do in your scenario, given that i've already explained the block grant received for 22/23 is already down 11% and rising thanks to the inflationary pressures that WM is doing F all about. That means that every pound is worth 11% less in real terms (potentially worth 18-22% less by the time of the next settlement). 

 

Here's a document that you might be able to haul on to the pin you're dancing on which might help you understand the 22/23 settlement package for local authorities.

 

https://www.gov.scot/publications/local-government-finance-circular-1-2022-settlement-for-2022-23/

 

So tell me Frank, where does the money come from to mitigate the Cost of Living pressures that council workers are facing to the degree where strike action is their only option?

 

You've also missed or avoided the bit you always miss and i'm not sure how many time you need to be told it either;

 

The Scottish Government having their funding controlled by the WM block grant. They do not control all the fiscal levers. They have very limited money raising powers. 

 

Just for a little balance the SG forced a council tax freeze on local authorities so it looks like they can intervene on council spending when it suits. 
 

Other than that back to you and Frank. 😊

[The Mighty Thor]

 

Just now, Dazo said:

Just for a little balance the SG forced a council tax freeze on local authorities so it looks like they can intervene on council spending when it suits. 
 

Other than that back to you and Frank. 😊

They also upweighted the Local Government settlement to mitigate but your are 100% correct.

[The Mighty Thor]

4 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

CEC can't agree a pay deal with workers. Up to COSLA to do that. 

 

It went quiet from the SNP and Green politicians blaming Labour in Edinburgh after the rubbish started to pile up in Glasgow. 

COSLA is a cross party organisation made up of local councillors who liaise with the SG. 

 

It's not an arm of the SG. 

[Mikey1874]

42 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

COSLA is a cross party organisation made up of local councillors who liaise with the SG. 

 

It's not an arm of the SG. 

 

And Edinburgh Council has no power on it's own to agree a pay deal. 

[frankblack]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

COSLA is a cross party organisation made up of local councillors who liaise with the SG. 

 

It's not an arm of the SG. 

 

COSLA is a Scottish Government quango.  It can't negotiate funding without the SG, to whom they are funded from ...... the Scottish Government budget. 🤷‍♂️

[henryheart]

2 hours ago, Dazo said:

Just for a little balance the SG forced a council tax freeze on local authorities so it looks like they can intervene on council spending when it suits. 
 

Other than that back to you and Frank. 😊

 

Plus approximately 60% of local authority funding comes directly from the Scottish Government, meanwhile the Scottish Government has over a number of years has placed additional responsibilities on local authorities without increasing central funding commensurately.  

[manaliveits105]

Quick circle the smurf wagons 

[JudyJudyJudy]

On 31/08/2022 at 23:34, The Maroon Pound said:

Exciting stuff getting your bins empty eve, you can only jump up and doon on it so many time's before the neighbours think you're a plank 

I know . He seemed so exciting about it  

[JudyJudyJudy]

Yes we got a work email from the union asking us to reject the latest pay offer.  

 

 

[maroondevo52]

Just had the bin men here, didn't take everything, I take it they'll be back.

[Gards]

Fresh offer made to workers and apparently unions are recommending acceptance to its members.  So looking possible next week's strikes will be averted.

 

 

[Mikey1874]

If there could be a little more honesty after this, it would be helpful.

 

The Scottish Government has for several years said it has given local government enough funding. Local councils say they have to make cuts every year due to increased demands.

 

It's fair enough the Scottish Government says it doesn't get enough funds from UK. But be more honest about the challenges.

 

Maybe we'll have the unions to thank if that happens. 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Mikey1874

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Just on the news, all 3 unions have suspended next weeks strikes.

[manaliveits105]

I wonder if snp held Glascow was having visitors from all over the world at a festival  if the Scottish Governments money tree would have been shaken two weeks ago ?

[Harry Potter]

Still no sign o the binmen, normally about 1pm, 😒, could be bringing them back in.

[maroondevo52]

13 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Still no sign o the binmen, normally about 1pm, 😒, could be bringing them back in.

Sure they said leave them out as could be as late as monday they get them.

[Japan Jambo]

16 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

I wonder if snp held Glascow was having visitors from all over the world at a festival  if the Scottish Governments money tree would have been shaken two weeks ago ?

 

In fairness it wasn't during COP

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Gards said:

Fresh offer made to workers and apparently unions are recommending acceptance to its members.  So looking possible next week's strikes will be averted.

 

 

Good news.

Well deserved.

[William H. Bonney]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62766520

[Sooperstar]

I'm led to believe that the offer is being rejected.

[manaliveits105]

You would think that the 2 union reps interviewed on the STV news about the settlement would have been happy but no the woman wanted to chunter on about the might of the union whilst the guy said COSLA and SG better make sure they are prepared for next Aprils pay increase - deary me .

[jack D and coke]

6 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Yes we got a work email from the union asking us to reject the latest pay offer.  

 

 

You’re a binman??

[Horatio Caine]

2 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

I wonder if snp held Glascow was having visitors from all over the world at a festival  if the Scottish Governments money tree would have been shaken two weeks ago ?

I wonder if Tory held Engerland will be shaking a money tree to help get the rail workers dispute sorted?  Or will Shapps continue to remain a bystander?

[The Gorgie]

1 hour ago, Sooperstar said:

I'm led to believe that the offer is being rejected.

GMB think it should be accepted.

[BlueRiver]

11 minutes ago, Horatio Caine said:

I wonder if Tory held Engerland will be shaking a money tree to help get the rail workers dispute sorted?  Or will Shapps continue to remain a bystander?

Who cares this is a thread about bin strikes in Scotland. 

[BlueRiver]

When will John Swinney get fed up being made to look like a prize arse? 
 

No more money he was saying just a couple days ago before Sturgeon rides in to save the day? 

[jamboy1982]

I’m sure everyone will be applauding wee Nicola and giving her kudos for stepping in to resolve this matter. We’re lucky to have her.