Is there anything in politics more shit than the Labour Party?

[RobboM]

7 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

I definitely have an old-fashioned view of the Labour Party.  Having a "Sir" as head of the working man's party just seems incongruous to me.  I'm out of touch, no doubt.

Ramsay MacDonald = Ramsay MacDonald
Clement Attlee = First Earl Attlee
Harold Wilson = Baron Wilson of Riveaulx
Jim Callaghan = The Lord Callaghan of Cardiff
Tony Blair = Sir Tony Blair
Gordon Brown = Gordon Brown

Granted all after they led the Labour Party.

The "sir" in Keir Starmer seems to me is usually used in a pejorative sense or implying he comes from aristocratic stock where it's just a recognition of his legal work.

Plenty of other reasons to stick the boot into him though 😉

[jambos are go!]

Sarwar has been successful in boosting Labours popularity in Scotland hence the need for the Tartan Taliban to target them.

 

I note that the surge in drug deaths largely coincides with the SNP rise to power.  Another example of their incompetence. How long can the electorate turn a blind eye to this?

 

 

[Lone Striker]

18 hours ago, Ulysses said:

Collective responsibility?  You'd have thought that the first place where collective responsibility mattered would be in the relationship between the Labour Party and workers - especially workers who are trying not to fall further behind as the cost of living spirals upwards.  

 

So if the Labour Party has to avoid representing workers in case the capitalists and middle classes get annoyed, what exactly is it for?  Who exactly does it represent?

I get your point, but the term "worker" nowadays is way different to what it was in Keir Hardie's day.  Back then it meant physical labourers in shipyards, coal mines, farms & factories.    The bosses of these people were likely to side with the landed gentry in supporting the Tories, maybe some folk in decent-paying office jobs did too.   

 

What sort of jobs would you consider are done by "workers" today ?      The employment landscape has changed beyond recognition, thanks to technology and an aspiration for betterment being now part of many people's lifestyle choices.    The credit boom and its effect on the housing market played a big part in fracturing the old "them and us"  perceptions.  

 

imo, thats the reality of why Labour have floundered electorally for the last 48 years - the exception being Blair's era, when he basically abandoned a lot of the nationalisation stuff which had failed to win enough support during the Thatcher years.  Hence why Labour's policies have drifted to the "right", basically trying to woo moderate Tory voters.    

 

Any rump of Corbynite politicians & union leaders could try forming their own party and start from scratch, but I suspect even they know thats a waste of time.   Its the mirror opposite of when the SDP split from Labour in the late 70s/early 80s because they felt Labour under Wilson &  Callaghan were cosying up to the unions too much - but they ended up having to merge with the Liberals to retain some kind of  future. 

[jack D and coke]

1 hour ago, Maple Leaf said:

I definitely have an old-fashioned view of the Labour Party.  Having a "Sir" as head of the working man's party just seems incongruous to me.  I'm out of touch, no doubt.

I’m similar. The way that stuff is abused nowadays anyway anyone with a shred of decency would politely tell them where to stick it. Johnson is apparently promising all sorts of this pish for mps who’ll step aside and give him a safe seat so he can make a comeback ffs he’s like the huge turd that won’t flush man. 
Starmer is as establishment as it gets for me as well. Labour should be run by a guy like Mick Lynch, someone you know doesn’t have someone else’s hand up his back. 

Edited July 28, 2022 by jack D and coke

[The Real Maroonblood]

19 minutes ago, jambos are go! said:

Sarwar has been successful in boosting Labours popularity in Scotland hence the need for the Tartan Taliban to target them.

 

I note that the surge in drug deaths largely coincides with the SNP rise to power.  Another example of their incompetence. How long can the electorate turn a blind eye to this?

 

 

Aye folk will worry about drug deaths when inflation and utility bills are going through the roof.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Maple Leaf said:

I definitely have an old-fashioned view of the Labour Party.  Having a "Sir" as head of the working man's party just seems incongruous to me.  I'm out of touch, no doubt.

The honours system is a symptom of the establishment and elitism. Therefore anyone who accepts any honour perpetuates this system no matter how humble their background is. 

[Callum231]

i think it is pretty clear he is a tory plant. he can only do things wrong. firing tarry today is exactly what he is mandated to do

[Riccarton3]

The leader is largely  there to appeal to Tory voters. 

[jack D and coke]

3 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Aye folk will worry about drug deaths when inflation and utility bills are going through the roof.

As bad as the drug deaths are it’s the hypocrisy is mind blowing. 
These are the same people who will complain about “free stuff” getting handed by our govt out like prescriptions or bus passes for bairns and also the mps like wee dougie who didn’t even vote to give kids a meal during the holidays. He abstained the tosser. 
But they want you to believe they care about spending fortunes preventing drug deaths instead. 
Aye right. 
 

[The Real Maroonblood]

31 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

As bad as the drug deaths are it’s the hypocrisy is mind blowing. 
These are the same people who will complain about “free stuff” getting handed by our govt out like prescriptions or bus passes for bairns and also the mps like wee dougie who didn’t even vote to give kids a meal during the holidays. He abstained the tosser. 
But they want you to believe they care about spending fortunes preventing drug deaths instead. 
Aye right. 
 

[manaliveits105]

Smurfs no giving a toss about the drug deaths - deary me 

[Ulysses]

15 hours ago, Victorian said:

 

It's representation is to get into a position where it can enact policies and management of the economy that can provide people with a better settlement.

 

That's the sum total of it right now.  These are exceptional times.  Only one thing matters to attempt to make meaningful change for the better and that is to oust this government.  If Labour can't do it or choose to stick rigidly to an ideology that fails to gain power then it's all for nothing.  It's just a notional support circle with the workers while the Tories continue to rob the gaff for their people.

 

That's a way of looking at it.  Another way of looking at it is that neoliberalism is so dominant a force that it has persuaded people that doing anything other than slavishly following its way of doing things is irrational - while following its way of doing things is "pragmatic".

 

Labour politicians can show solidarity with the very people whose interests they are supposed to represent without going "full Millie".  The French government that is fully nationalising EDF isn't exactly a Momentum stronghold; the same can be said for the German government that introduced the temporary €9 monthly travel pass, or the other governments across Europe who introduced different measures to relieve or subsidise consumer energy costs.

 

There are more than two choices here, despite what the dominant political culture would have you believe. 

 

 

[Ulysses]

12 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Smurfs no giving a toss about the drug deaths - deary me 

 

So, the Labour Party.  Any thoughts?

[Ulysses]

4 hours ago, jambos are go! said:

Sarwar has been successful in boosting Labours popularity in Scotland hence the need for the Tartan Taliban to target them.

 

I note that the surge in drug deaths largely coincides with the SNP rise to power.  Another example of their incompetence. How long can the electorate turn a blind eye to this?

 

 

 

So, the Labour Party.  Any thoughts?

[Ulysses]

Anyway, here's what Mick Lynch had to say. 

 

The interesting bit is where he says (and I'm paraphrasing) that the Labour leader needs to have some principles, and let people know what they are.  If people don't know what he'll do when he gets into power, there's a possibility he'll never get into power. 

 

 

[Ulysses]

4 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

What sort of jobs would you consider are done by "workers" today ?    

 

Lots of them, and lots of different types.  But almost all of them are being done by people whose real earnings have been stagnant or falling for a very long time, and now with rising inflation they're all about to be, to use an Irish expression, ridden senseless.  And no-one in politics is speaking up, acting, or devising policies with their point of view in mind.

 

For all the "high value-added" stuff we talk about in the economy, there are still plenty of workers earning the minimum wage or little above it: Shelf fillers, pickers and packers, home care assistants, teaching assistants, fishing and agricultural labourers, receptionists, secretaries, school admin staff, shop staff and checkout operators, cleaners, childcare workers, OAP care staff, kitchen helpers, caretakers, call centre operators, restaurant and bar servers, clerical workers, laundry staff, machine operators in several industry sectors, and no doubt many more.

[manaliveits105]

Sacked chappy is Angie’s boyfriend apparently - awkward ! 

[Shooter McGavin]

4 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Sacked chappy is Angie’s boyfriend apparently - awkward ! 

3am on a weekday, and you’re still going strong with the tiresome posts 😂

 

Like I said mate, you’re not good at trolling so please stop it, I’m telling you this for your own good.

[Lone Striker]

9 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Lots of them, and lots of different types.  But almost all of them are being done by people whose real earnings have been stagnant or falling for a very long time, and now with rising inflation they're all about to be, to use an Irish expression, ridden senseless.  And no-one in politics is speaking up, acting, or devising policies with their point of view in mind.

 

For all the "high value-added" stuff we talk about in the economy, there are still plenty of workers earning the minimum wage or little above it: Shelf fillers, pickers and packers, home care assistants, teaching assistants, fishing and agricultural labourers, receptionists, secretaries, school admin staff, shop staff and checkout operators, cleaners, childcare workers, OAP care staff, kitchen helpers, caretakers, call centre operators, restaurant and bar servers, clerical workers, laundry staff, machine operators in several industry sectors, and no doubt many more.

You may have mis-interpreted my comment.

 

Yes, all the ones you mention are valid - and all relatively low-paid, and most are "vital" in some respect.    However there's a vast number of slightly better-paid jobs being done by "workers" - e.g. in the lower echelons of the civil service, financial sector, engineering, various types of planners (transport, economy, housing, education,  supply chain, council services etc.)   They used to be called white-collar jobs .....office-based ......  but I'd argue that nowadays the folk who have these jobs may well still be struggling financially,  but don't automatically fit into the old Tory vs. Socialist voting patterns.   They may well flit from one to the other.   But the fact is they're still "workers",  mostly doing important jobs.   

[Ked]

15 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Aye folk will worry about drug deaths when inflation and utility bills are going through the roof.

Aye because drug deaths don't affect anyone eh?

Junkies have families mate who worry themselves a lot more than a fekin utility bill.

And drug addiction isn't just a case of selfish bams wanting to get stoned.

Often stemming from childhood trauma.

But hey its junkies so fek em 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, Ked said:

Aye because drug deaths don't affect anyone eh?

Junkies have families mate who worry themselves a lot more than a fekin utility bill.

And drug addiction isn't just a case of selfish bams wanting to get stoned.

Often stemming from childhood trauma.

But hey its junkies so fek em 

It is a problem but as I said most people have more pressing issues.

[Ainsley Harriott]

Yes there is

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 hours ago, Ulysses said:

Anyway, here's what Mick Lynch had to say. 

 

The interesting bit is where he says (and I'm paraphrasing) that the Labour leader needs to have some principles, and let people know what they are.  If people don't know what he'll do when he gets into power, there's a possibility he'll never get into power. 

 

 

Absolutely on the nail ! 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Ked said:

Aye because drug deaths don't affect anyone eh?

Junkies have families mate who worry themselves a lot more than a fekin utility bill.

And drug addiction isn't just a case of selfish bams wanting to get stoned.

Often stemming from childhood trauma.

But hey its junkies so fek em 

Well

said 

[John Findlay]

So, I believe you become a member of the Labour Party first, this due to your PERSONAL political beliefs I assume, then you become a Labour MP. You get voted into WM due to these beliefs, and the manifesto your party decides to fight the election on.

However, you lose the election, but become the official opposition party, but you still hold your PERSONAL political beliefs, now your party leader decides you are a good MP and decides to put you in his shadow cabinet, and therefore on the shadow front bench.

Now the people you represent and very much helped putting you into parliament, are in dispute with their employer, and after adhering to you process and the law of the land, decide to legally withdraw their Labour and go on strike. You a man of principle decide to support them on their picketing, afterall they have helped alot to get you where you are.

However, your leader says no that's not the thing to do as we won't get the votes of those that don't support the strike, and therefore not become the government, so you a man of PRINCIPAL ARE SACKED.

Conclusion. Simple. Your party leader is an arse.

[Japan Jambo]

On 27/07/2022 at 19:57, Dawnrazor said:

Angela Rayner should be on the next picket line available to get things moving.

 

To be fair sending her boyfriend was the next best thing...

[Dawnrazor]

17 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

To be fair sending her boyfriend was the next best thing...

It does make me wonder if this was a bit of a set up to cause Starmer a bit of trouble?

[Japan Jambo]

Just now, Dawnrazor said:

It does make me wonder if this was a bit of a set up to cause Starmer a bit of trouble?

 

🙂 

[Ainsley Harriott]

I would suggest the Scottish National Party are. A group of perverts with an obsession of focussing on a single constitutional issue to the detriment of our public services. 

[Ainsley Harriott]

3 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

It is a problem but as I said most people have more pressing issues.

Pretendyrendum 

[The Real Maroonblood]

Just now, Ainsley Harriott said:

Pretendyrendum 

[Jeffros Furios]

10 minutes ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

I would suggest the Scottish National Party are. A group of perverts with an obsession of focussing on a single constitutional issue to the detrim ent of our public services. 

Yet you support the Celtic of politics... The Conservative and Nonces party .

 

 

[jack D and coke]

13 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Yet you support the Celtic of politics... The Conservative and Nonces party .

 

 

And has that woman/lizard in his avatar who uses public money to pay off her pervert noncey son from a woman he never met to save him from prosecution. 
You wouldn’t shout about perverts when you peg that as your avatar…

[Cruyff]

18 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Yet you support the Celtic of politics... The Conservative and Nonces party .

 

 

 

[Ked]

54 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Yet you support the Celtic of politics... The Conservative and Nonces party .

 

 

 

[Boab]

I would say that was an easy 3-0 victory.

More of the same the morn would be nice.

[Jeffros Furios]

41 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

And has that woman/lizard in his avatar who uses public money to pay off her pervert noncey son from a woman he never met to save him from prosecution. 
You wouldn’t shout about perverts when you peg that as your avatar…

The poster is a wrong un . . Probably has photos of Andrew and Saville in his bedsit .

[jack D and coke]

This fine lass thinks the tories are shitter than labour and she’s BANG ON THE CASH as the saying goes.
Wee Rishi talking last night too about getting all muscular with NS and Scotland….they just don’t get it man…
These nonce tory voters will see the end of this union☺️

 

[manaliveits105]

The leader of North Lanarkshire council has resigned from his post following an allegation of sexual misconduct.

SNP councillor Jordan Linden said he had “no wish for personal circumstances to overshadow the work of the local authority” after the Sunday Mail reported the alleged unwanted advances towards a teenager at a party in Dundee in 2019.

smurfs = riddled 

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

9 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

The leader of North Lanarkshire council has resigned from his post following an allegation of sexual misconduct.

SNP councillor Jordan Linden said he had “no wish for personal circumstances to overshadow the work of the local authority” after the Sunday Mail reported the alleged unwanted advances towards a teenager at a party in Dundee in 2019.

smurfs = riddled 

 

 

The Met said it had received a complaint from a third party about Patrick Grady’s alleged sexual assault of a 19-year-old party worker at the Water Poet pub on Folgate Street, London, in October 2016

 

SNP Finance Secretary Derek Mackay bombarded schoolboy, 16, with creepy texts and called him 'cute'

 

On 24 January 2019, Police Scotland arrested Salmond. He was charged with 14 offences, including two counts of attempted rape, nine of sexual assault, two of indecent assault, and one of breach of the peace.

[manaliveits105]

9 hours ago, Shooter McGavin said:

3am on a weekday, and you’re still going strong with the tiresome posts 😂

 

Like I said mate, you’re not good at trolling so please stop it, I’m telling you this for your own good.

 

[Ked]

So we descend into the political chat of using terms relating to child abuse but still moan about political integrity.

Football scarf politics.

 

[Roxy Hearts]

On 28/07/2022 at 19:22, jambos are go! said:

Sarwar has been successful in boosting Labours popularity in Scotland hence the need for the Tartan Taliban to target them.

 

I note that the surge in drug deaths largely coincides with the SNP rise to power.  Another example of their incompetence. How long can the electorate turn a blind eye to this?

 

 

What's Sarwar done? He's an absolute idiot and puppet. I'll be voting SNP as no other Scottish party to vote for. What would the other parties do to stem drug use? People need to look at themselves and not blame the politicians! The SNP never asked them to use drugs or any Westminster party either! Stupid post anyway! 

[Nucky Thompson]

I like Sir Keir's style.

I could actually lend him my vote 

[Ulysses]

9 hours ago, Lone Striker said:

You may have mis-interpreted my comment.

 

Yes, all the ones you mention are valid - and all relatively low-paid, and most are "vital" in some respect.    However there's a vast number of slightly better-paid jobs being done by "workers" - e.g. in the lower echelons of the civil service, financial sector, engineering, various types of planners (transport, economy, housing, education,  supply chain, council services etc.)   They used to be called white-collar jobs .....office-based ......  but I'd argue that nowadays the folk who have these jobs may well still be struggling financially,  but don't automatically fit into the old Tory vs. Socialist voting patterns.   They may well flit from one to the other.   But the fact is they're still "workers",  mostly doing important jobs.   

 

I think people who do what used to be called white-collar jobs can be easily persuaded into believing that they are in some way privileged in comparison to others who might be earning similar money for work that is more physically demanding, dirty or dangerous.  Junior and low-end white-collar jobs have always had an element of that.  But that's a con, and it's one that's deliberately promoted by the dominant business and neoliberal culture. 

 

If you look at the other end of the pay spectrum, you see more highly-paid workers such as pilots, senior civil servants, heads of HR, IT and Finance, advertising and PR executives, school principals, clinical managers in healthcare, senior police and army officers, IT specialists, legal and accounting professionals, and so on.

 

Just to be clear, when I refer to workers I mean any and all of those, as well as the kinds of workers I mentioned above - and whether they are "vital" or not I think all of them are fully justified in seeking significant and meaningful pay increases.  Otherwise, in an economy of rising prices they lose out because they are enduring real pay cuts, and they are entitled to say that's crap and to look for better.

[Ulysses]

4 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

I would suggest the Scottish National Party are. A group of perverts with an obsession of focussing on a single constitutional issue to the detriment of our public services. 

 

So, the Labour Party.  Any thoughts?

[Ulysses]

3 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

The leader of North Lanarkshire council has resigned from his post following an allegation of sexual misconduct.

SNP councillor Jordan Linden said he had “no wish for personal circumstances to overshadow the work of the local authority” after the Sunday Mail reported the alleged unwanted advances towards a teenager at a party in Dundee in 2019.

smurfs = riddled 

 

 

2 hours ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

 

The Met said it had received a complaint from a third party about Patrick Grady’s alleged sexual assault of a 19-year-old party worker at the Water Poet pub on Folgate Street, London, in October 2016

 

SNP Finance Secretary Derek Mackay bombarded schoolboy, 16, with creepy texts and called him 'cute'

 

On 24 January 2019, Police Scotland arrested Salmond. He was charged with 14 offences, including two counts of attempted rape, nine of sexual assault, two of indecent assault, and one of breach of the peace.

 

So, ladies, the Labour Party.  Any thoughts?

[jack D and coke]

24 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

What's Sarwar done? He's an absolute idiot and puppet. I'll be voting SNP as no other Scottish party to vote for. What would the other parties do to stem drug use? People need to look at themselves and not blame the politicians! The SNP never asked them to use drugs or any Westminster party either! Stupid post anyway! 

The drug thing is such a multi faceted problem. This possibly explains things a bit…

https://www.sdf.org.uk/blog-poverty-is-the-root-of-scotlands-fatal-drug-overdose-crisis/

 

[Roxy Hearts]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

So, the Labour Party.  Any thoughts?

Wasting your time Uly. They'll have a hard time looking under their UJ duvet for the answers! They all normally say the same thing and not one of them with any credence.

[Roxy Hearts]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

The drug thing is such a multi faceted problem. This possibly explains things a bit…

https://www.sdf.org.uk/blog-poverty-is-the-root-of-scotlands-fatal-drug-overdose-crisis/

 

I don't want to trivialise drug use but the usual suspects use it to have a go without acknowledging the deeper aspects. It's heartbreaking seeing folk so desperate and not able to provide them with able support.