*** Hearts Summer Transfer Window 2022 - Snodgrass signs ***

[PapaShango]

8 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

Did he ever play a game for Swansea?

No didn't play for them at all. 

[soonbe110]

5 hours ago, davemclaren said:

David Gray as well. 😎

Danny Galbraith as well 

[DB-14]

33 minutes ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Harry Souttar too

 

What about him? He never played for Hearts.

[kingantti1874]

28 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Better in the bank, i suppose. He could turn into the next Harry Cochrane and we would get heehaw for him

Or he could be the next Aaron Hickey.. or Calvin Ramsay £6m +
 

to be honest, if the clubs  attitude to youth development is as risk averse as suggested by a couple of posters on this thread e.g we should be happy to take 50% of an EPL players weekly wage for a player we may as well shut the academy.. complete total and utter waste of time.

 

[soonbe110]

4 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Or he could be the next Aaron Hickey.. or Calvin Ramsay £6m +
 

to be honest, if the clubs  attitude to youth development is as risk averse as suggested by a couple of posters on this thread e.g we should be happy to take 50% of an EPL players weekly wage for a player we may as well shut the academy.. complete total and utter waste of time.

 

At 15 years old we can’t tie him down on a long term contract so he is free to go wherever he wants every year until he signs his first pro contract.  Similarly we are free to let anyone go that isn’t making the grade.  Just the way the industry works. He, and parents, will be getting well  looked after by Villa. 

[RustyRightPeg]

14 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Or he could be the next Aaron Hickey.. or Calvin Ramsay £6m +
 

to be honest, if the clubs  attitude to youth development is as risk averse as suggested by a couple of posters on this thread e.g we should be happy to take 50% of an EPL players weekly wage for a player we may as well shut the academy.. complete total and utter waste of time.

 

Name the last player who came through our academy that we sold for a good chunk of money and the year it happened? Excluding Hickey I can’t think of anyone since Paterson, Walker and Nicholson touching 6/7 years ago. 
 

We’ve just appointed a new head of youth in McAvoy. He’s 6 months in or whatever it is. The academy is in the process of being redone because it’s been a shit show for years under the previous regime. 
 

£250K is a huge sum for us for an unknown commodity. 
 

Fair enough if he was 18/19 and had first team experience, demand more, but not for a 15 year old who isn’t even eligible to be full time for us. Take it and run, reinvest it and build with it. 

[kingantti1874]

6 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

Name the last player who came through our academy that we sold for a good chunk of money and the year it happened? Excluding Hickey I can’t think of anyone since Paterson, Walker and Nicholson touching 6/7 years ago. 
 

We’ve just appointed a new head of youth in McAvoy. He’s 6 months in or whatever it is. The academy is in the process of being redone because it’s been a shit show for years under the previous regime. 
 

£250K is a huge sum for us for an unknown commodity. 
 

Fair enough if he was 18/19 and had first team experience, demand more, but not for a 15 year old who isn’t even eligible to be full time for us. Take it and run, reinvest it and build with it. 

Its not 1974. 250k is sweeties - would barely buy you a mediocre semi detached house .. if those are the prices we are selling players for then the academy will run at a huge loss.

 

if that is the type of business we should be happy with then we should close the academy.   Take the million or so it takes to run it every year and buy a couple of players.. not run at a loss for other teams to steal the benefit.

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Harry Souttar too

 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

1 minute ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

What’s your weird obsession with honking ?

[Bazzas right boot]

If Ronan signs, I'll have a smile on my face. 

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Its not 1974. 250k is sweeties - would barely buy you a mediocre semi detached house .. if those are the prices we are selling players for then the academy will run at a huge loss.

 

if that is the type of business we should be happy with then we should close the academy.   Take the million or so it takes to run it every year and buy a couple of players.. not run at a loss for other teams to steal the benefit.

 

 

 

 

 

Tbf, I agree with you to an extent, but you may be over reacting - a little. 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Bazzas right boot

[Herbert.]

7 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Its not 1974. 250k is sweeties - would barely buy you a mediocre semi detached house .. if those are the prices we are selling players for then the academy will run at a huge loss.

 

if that is the type of business we should be happy with then we should close the academy.   Take the million or so it takes to run it every year and buy a couple of players.. not run at a loss for other teams to steal the benefit.

 

 

 

 

250k is a massive amount in Scottish football.

[kingantti1874]

9 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

 

Tbf, I agree with you to an extent, but you may be over reacting - a little. 

 

 

😂 having a bad day..I’ve been in a triggered state since my first call today

[Cruyff]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

😂 having a bad day..I’ve been in a triggered state since my first call today

Tbf, you've got a point. Thus far the Academy has produced next to heehaw, it's a money pit and if it doesn't start to produce the goods soon then we should start to think about where that money could be better spent. 

[kingantti1874]

8 minutes ago, Herbert. said:

 

 

250k is a massive amount in Scottish football.

 

Really - 1/4 of a Lawrence Shankland 👀.  

 

im not saying the club can do anything about it, but the suggestion we should be happy with it is in my view not correct.  
 

My point is these types of fee undermine the investment in the academy. That the investment and the effort that goes into it is simply not worth it if these are the types of deal that we can expect to see. It will simply run at a loss, and not produce the type of talent which will improve our first team. 
 

I can see many Scottish teams simply doing away with this cost.

[OTT]

36 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

If Ronan signs, I'll have a smile on my face. 

 

No doubt he's a good player that I'll be glad to have too, but not sure where he plays in a 343. I assume either one of the midfield two or one up with Boyce and McKay? Might mean Robbies looking at different formations maybe?

[CMc]

1 hour ago, Lord Beni of Gorgie said:

 

Useful additions so far that appear done, close, permits. Hoping there are two very good ones, these ones are fine, but its not the quality for sustaining European football, more having a squad to contend with extra matches, which may of course be the plan, cement third and not worry too much at this stage what does happen in Europe

Ronan (alongside Levit, Ferguson and McKay) was statistically one of the best attack minded midfielders outside the OF in the SPFL last season with lots of time to develop. 
 

Would be very pleased. 

[RustyRightPeg]

48 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Its not 1974. 250k is sweeties - would barely buy you a mediocre semi detached house .. if those are the prices we are selling players for then the academy will run at a huge loss.

 

if that is the type of business we should be happy with then we should close the academy.   Take the million or so it takes to run it every year and buy a couple of players.. not run at a loss for other teams to steal the benefit.

 

 

If £250K is sweeties then why are we not buying players left right and centre? 
 

I think you’re disillusioned at the financials if you don’t think £250K in player sales (for a 15 year old by the way!!!) is a big amount for us…

[Bazzas right boot]

38 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

😂 having a bad day..I’ve been in a triggered state since my first call today

 

Hope your day gets better. 😂

[AlphonseCapone]

On 05/06/2022 at 12:58, Jambo 4 Ever said:

Would rather have players who know the club and played well for us at the time come back compared to average foreign nobodies

 

were you one of the ones who didn’t want Gordon back because he was too Celtic minded?

 

On 05/06/2022 at 12:59, Jambo 4 Ever said:

 

Racist then fatist in the space of 1 minute, shocking stuff. No room for people like you around here. Hope someone grasses. 

[BackOfTheNet]

8 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

 

Racist then fatist in the space of 1 minute, shocking stuff. No room for people like you around here. Hope someone grasses. 

To be fair, he’s now currently championing a ‘foreign nobody’ Australian international…

[jr ewing]

1 hour ago, Herbert. said:

 

 

250k is a massive amount in Scottish football.

Keeps the Academy going for 3 months only. 

[Tasavallan]

My son was chatting with Trigger at weekend.  He is back up north after leaving QPR.

[PhoenixHearts]

20 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

To be fair, he’s now currently championing a ‘foreign nobody’ Australian international…

 

"Not forrin if they speak inglish" type beat.

[kingantti1874]

16 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Keeps the Academy going for 3 months only. 

this is the key point.  The ONLY purpose(s) of the  academy are to 1. Improve the hearts first team.  Or 2. To make profit from player sales to “allow us to improve the hearts first team”

 

selling our best young talent for these types of fees is entirely pointless. Not enough to keep the lights on at the academy, not enough to strengthen the first team and vastly reduces the chance of bringing a youngster into the first team.

 

not blaming the club, not along which can be done.. but if this pattern was to continues then we should seriously consider whether that investment is worth it

[Jamboj1]

I was told a few weeks ago that the ronan deal wasn’t going to happen due to the price being asked but was one of our important targets for before pre season. I took the Forrest deal as a sign that the ronan deal was completely dead but seems there’s been movement between the clubs 👍🏻

[RustyRightPeg]

13 minutes ago, Tasavallan said:

My son was chatting with Trigger at weekend.  He is back up north after leaving QPR.

Suspect he’ll end up at Kelty as gaffer. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by RustyRightPeg

[BackOfTheNet]

37 minutes ago, PhoenixHearts said:

 

"Not forrin if they speak inglish" type beat.

Ah, right enough, forgot about that wee caveat

[jr ewing]

41 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

this is the key point.  The ONLY purpose(s) of the  academy are to 1. Improve the hearts first team.  Or 2. To make profit from player sales to “allow us to improve the hearts first team”

 

selling our best young talent for these types of fees is entirely pointless. Not enough to keep the lights on at the academy, not enough to strengthen the first team and vastly reduces the chance of bringing a youngster into the first team.

 

not blaming the club, not along which can be done.. but if this pattern was to continues then we should seriously consider whether that investment is worth it

Not worth it. 😕 

[Diadora Van Basten]

In 24 hour party people there is a joke that A certain ratio where going through a transitional phase. I think this is the same with Hearts Academy it’s always going to be Jam tomorrow and as for paying £250k for a fifteen year old 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

2 hours ago, Herbert. said:

 

 

250k is a massive amount in Scottish football.

couple months FOH donations

[Jambo92]

50 minutes ago, Jamboj1 said:

I was told a few weeks ago that the ronan deal wasn’t going to happen due to the price being asked but was one of our important targets for before pre season. I took the Forrest deal as a sign that the ronan deal was completely dead but seems there’s been movement between the clubs 👍🏻

 

Clubs can't no longer loan out half of their reserves, makes more sense to sell with clauses- buy back price, percentage sell on.

The guy is 24 and had 4 loans now, so will simply be Wolves looking for highest bidder.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

2 hours ago, Cruyff said:

Tbf, you've got a point. Thus far the Academy has produced next to heehaw, it's a money pit and if it doesn't start to produce the goods soon then we should start to think about where that money could be better spent. 

Leonard 

This current lad

Hickey 

 

Will potentially have earned us over £3m in 3 years by this transfer window.

 

Depends on your views but that doesn’t reek of failure.

[briever]

Just now, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Leonard 

This current lad

Hickey 

 

Will potentially have earned us over £3m in 3 years by this transfer window.

 

Depends on your views but that doesn’t reek of failure.

 

I'd prefer the academy to produce players for our first team.

[RustyRightPeg]

6 minutes ago, briever said:

 

I'd prefer the academy to produce players for our first team.

They do. By giving us funds to buy others. 

[jamboinglasgow]

6 minutes ago, Jambo92 said:

 

Clubs can't no longer loan out half of their reserves, makes more sense to sell with clauses- buy back price, percentage sell on.

The guy is 24 and had 4 loans now, so will simply be Wolves looking for highest bidder.

 

Its a good point, had a look at Wolves and this season they loaned out 9 players who are over 21 to clubs outside of England. So that would not be allowed under the new rules. I see Wolves loan a few players out to Switzerland and Portugal, so makes sense they are better moving Ronan on. If Hearts are offering a good sell on and say £250k-£300k then it frees up space and gives them a chance to cash in later. The £500k figure could be putting clubs off at the moment.

[briever]

7 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

They do. By giving us funds to buy others. 

 

I think you're rather missing the point of an academy.

[RustyRightPeg]

8 minutes ago, briever said:

 

I think you're rather missing the point of an academy.

To make the club money.
 

There isn’t a medal at the end of the season for playing the most youngsters. 

[SCFHearts]

1 minute ago, RustyRightPeg said:

To make the club money.
 

There isn’t a medal at the end of the season for playing the most youngsters. 

Member CL tking all the plaudits for playing youngsters, his ego couldnt take  enough praise and then 

[briever]

2 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

To make the club money.
 

There isn’t a medal at the end of the season for playing the most youngsters. 

And you do that by producing players for your first team.

[john thomas]

11 minutes ago, briever said:

 

I think you're rather missing the point of an academy.

Not sure . Basically we are trying to breed players for ourselves .

But if we have an outstanding prospect he'll be hoovered up with the rest , no matter which Scottish team 

So , yes , academy sales may work towards our buying budget

[jamboinglasgow]

6 minutes ago, briever said:

And you do that by producing players for your first team.

 

In the old days that would be the only way to do it, but the game is different nowadays and clubs can poach youngsters paying compensation, and the club that trained the player for years can do little to stop it.

Edited June 6, 2022 by jamboinglasgow

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

49 minutes ago, briever said:

 

I'd prefer the academy to produce players for our first team.

Me too but you can’t argue with the recent money…

[RustyRightPeg]

24 minutes ago, briever said:

And you do that by producing players for your first team.

You do it by any means necessary. If that means moving a 15 year old on so be it. 
 

We don’t have a crop of players fit for our standard of player in the first team at the moment and haven’t for a good while. 
 

As I said earlier, Hickey is the exception not the rule. The academy is what is still suffering most from the mess of the previous regime that ran it and needs a few years, potentially more to rebuild its self under McAvoy’s leadership. 

[JimmyCant]

11 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

In the old days that would be the only way to do it, but the game is different nowadays and clubs can poach youngsters paying compensation, and the club that trained the player for years can do little to stop it.

It’s a bit like we’re contributing to the ‘football reservoir’ as one of many academies across the country, rather than the old insular way of doing it where boys joined at 15-16 and didn’t leave until the early 20’s once they had proven themselves at first team level.

 

Its good and bad I suppose. We have access to other young players being raised by other clubs academies and they have full access to ours. We’re making the odd buck, enough to sustain the facility  at least and every now and again we’re involved in a real gem which fills coffers. Even our big gem shifted between 2 academies. I’d prefer to see us bringing a good young player through to the first team every year but it looks to me that that’s not necessarily the top purpose, instead we’re contributing in a global sense and we’re benefiting because we’ve got a good scouting system running alongside 

[tartofmidlothian]

4 hours ago, Sooks said:

 

Or Adam King

 

4 hours ago, AndyNic said:

 

Thought of him too - now playing for Alloa!

 

Went to Swansea and just dropped down the leagues on loan.

 

The money for him was an absolute lifesaver at the time as well.

[Nookie Bear]

23 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

You do it by any means necessary. If that means moving a 15 year old on so be it. 
 

We don’t have a crop of players fit for our standard of player in the first team at the moment and haven’t for a good while. 
 

As I said earlier, Hickey is the exception not the rule. The academy is what is still suffering most from the mess of the previous regime that ran it and needs a few years, potentially more to rebuild its self under McAvoy’s leadership. 

If clubs are sniffing around our 15-yr olds then they’ll be sniffing around anyone of talent of any age. 
 

Unless a player is particularly unwilling to move south then it’s hard to see how we will ever develop kids into first team players.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

For every 15 year old that is snapped up early there will be one that doesn’t mature until slightly later and does get in the team.

 

Why is everybody so binary these days?

[SCFHearts]

10 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

For every 15 year old that is snapped up early there will be one that doesn’t mature until slightly later and does get in the team.

 

Why is everybody so binary these days?

I know the numbers seem to be increasing by the day 

[CMc]

Re the academy, it kind of has to be jam tomorrow, right?

 

I.e. the only way we will know if we’re doing a good job now is if good players start coming through in four or five years. 
 

We all know the club was in a state a few years back. So it’s no surprise that what’s coming through isn’t what we want it to be. We knew it was in a mess at the end of Romanov, so hardly a surprise the CP, Kings, Nicholson, Walker, McGhee, etc crop was the last really good one. 
 

The club has been in survival mode for much of the period in between. If first team scouting was as bad as we all know it was, then it would hardly be surprising if the grass roots scouting was not what it could have been. Similarly, when the first team coaching was so poor, was it likely the youth coaching was better? 
 

We have had to rebuild every aspect of the club. It is safe to assume the academy needed it too. 
 

Think we need a little bit of patience (which is clearly our collective strong suit on this board). Doubt investors in vineyards demand all the current crops are ripped up just because the 2016 vintage comes out the casks a disappointment. 
 

I can see the Brentford model discourse ambling over the hill towards the thread as I type. If we can see the merits of it and feel Jo could work wonders speculating to accumulate with the academy budget, those at the club would certainly trust him even more implicitly. The club must be confident they can rebuild the academy to the same standards as the first team. 
 

even when all the coaches and scouting is right and we have a decent crop in the doors, building a culture will take a while. We can’t definitely say we are the best place for families to send their sons. Yet. 
 

Give it time. Need to be process oriented until we gain the trust of the community to send AND KEEP the best young talent. 
 

it might take 8-10 years. But we’ve got the patience for that. 
 

Right?