The 'Battle' for 3rd ( merged )

[savage]

I can't believe we are now discussing blowing 3rd. It should be done and dusted but its not and we are in very real danger of blowing it.  On current form i don't see us winning any of our next 3 games

[ramrod]

1 minute ago, Des Lynam said:

 

I agree with the game at Ibrox but I don’t think it’s bottle but that the confidence took a dull one and we need a win to get back on track. 

Def 

If you look at our form since the spit up to Ibrox it isn't as bad as people make out . A narrow defeat at home to Celtic and a draw away at Hibs with wins against St Johnstone,  Motherwell and Talbot .

It's the Rangers game that's killed us confidence wise.

I mention bottle because looking at the fixtures I can't see us having enough of it to scrap our way to results. 

If Neilson doesn't get 3rd he definitely SHOULD go imo but we all know in all likelihood won't.

 

[Boris5115]

6 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

 

I agree with the game at Ibrox but I don’t think it’s bottle but that the confidence took a dull one and we need a win to get back on track. 

We had the perfect fixture to get back on track after the Ibrox result. Dundee at home with everyone around us losing that night we could have opened up a 15 point gap. Unfortunately Robbie couldn't out fox McJake. That is where the free fall started not Ibrox. 

[ramrod]

2 minutes ago, Boris5115 said:

We had the perfect fixture to get back on track after the Ibrox result. Dundee at home with everyone around us losing that night we could have opened up a 15 point gap. Unfortunately Robbie couldn't out fox McJake. That is where the free fall started not Ibrox. 

So the Ibrox result didn't impact the performance against Dundee , lol 

I'm out 😂😂😂

[Boris5115]

So

3 minutes ago, ramrod said:

So the Ibrox result didn't impact the performance against Dundee , lol 

I'm out 😂😂😂

So you should be. Dundee at home come on don't kid yourself. I've been going to football since 1977 and a vast majority of the time going to Parkhead and Ibrox has been a free hit. As Neilson said this was the perfect fixture to get back on track. If you can't see that then I'm out 😂😂😂😂. 

[Kyle1874]

Just now, Boris5115 said:

So

So you should be. Dundee at home come on don't kid yourself. I've been going to football since 1977 and a vast majority of the time going to Parkhead and Ibrox has been a free hit. As Neilson said this was the perfect fixture to get back on track. If you can't see that then I'm out 😂😂😂😂. 

Rangers came in to that game against us after being pumped by Celtic hearts got a rangers team that was hurting and gave a reaction we go in to the game v Dundee and never got anything from our players this it’s the worrying thing for me 

[innerjambo]

Will struggle to finish in the top 4, cannot see where the next win is coming from. We're in downward spiral. 

[innerjambo]

25 minutes ago, EH11 2NL said:

Fantasy or reality..... that question could be asked to any 1 of the teams sitting below us about their realistic chances of catching us. 

 

I think they would all be pretty optimistic tbh.

[Boris5115]

1 minute ago, Kyle1874 said:

Rangers came in to that game against us after being pumped by Celtic hearts got a rangers team that was hurting and gave a reaction we go in to the game v Dundee and never got anything from our players this it’s the worrying thing for me 

Tell Ramrod that he clearly doesn't get it. 

[EH11 2NL]

Just now, innerjambo said:

 

I think they would all be pretty optimistic tbh.

It would require a 25% increase in points. Unlikely from teams that have fallen 9 behind us given how poor we have been. 

[Kyle1874]

Just now, Boris5115 said:

Tell Ramrod that he clearly doesn't get it. 

Can say the same for a few of our players 🤷🤣

[Jambo_jim2001]

Way we are playing just now,,no chance of third,sadly...

[Boris5115]

13 minutes ago, Kyle1874 said:

Can say the same for a few of our players 🤷🤣

And the Manager too. 

[mmc]

57 minutes ago, TypoonJambo said:

A half decent manager would have us in exactly the same position.  A decent manager would have us about 12 points more. Dundee,St Johnstone, Hibs and Aberdeen. All games we should have won.

I’m in total agreement. Whilst happy that we’ve made 3rd our own (for now), and that’s surpassed my admittedly low expectations after coming up from the championship, the season is in real danger of fizzling out completely and finishing on a low. I agree that there have been several frustrating missed opportunities to have practically wrapped up 3rd: contriving losses from draws and draws from wins. More worrying to me is that the form slump may coincide with a cup game against [a potentially Naismith-led] St Mirren; not a gimme.
 

We have a good squad IMO but look less than the sum of our parts. I think that comes down to what they’re being asked to do and the way they’re being coached. We rarely seem to be on the front foot at the start of a match and  the atmosphere gets sucked out of the stadium, which helps neither the players or the fans. To me, that’s all coming from the guy calling the shots.

 

If we improve enough to get another couple of wins pre-split - whilst those below us continue to stumble - I think we’ll manage 3rd. Fingers crossed!

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Get rid of the bottler and get a decent manager and these players will get 3rd.

[Ex member of the SaS]

I think the players have it in their heads third is already ours and have stopped trying. This attitude is down to the training and manager and only they can stop it. Will they? I have my doubts. I also think we will scrape third but it will be touch and go with a few squeeky bums.

[Nessjambo67]

39 minutes ago, Kyle1874 said:

Rangers came in to that game against us after being pumped by Celtic hearts got a rangers team that was hurting and gave a reaction we go in to the game v Dundee and never got anything from our players this it’s the worrying thing for me 

Exactly this  ! I was just about to post something similar you beat me to it . I think it was very unfortunate that we were rangers next opponent after the Celtic game they were out to get a reaction and that’s exactly what they done it’s very sad we could not follow suit against scumdee 

[Ex member of the SaS]

1 hour ago, savage said:

I can't believe we are now discussing blowing 3rd. It should be done and dusted but its not and we are in very real danger of blowing it.  On current form i don't see us winning any of our next 3 games

I said this weeks ago, that we should have had third sewn up by now and allowing us to play fringe players and youth. The sooner third is confirmed then we know we have Europe to look forward to and the players can be rested. Now we are looking at the POSSIBILITY of missing out and this is down to the manager.

[innerjambo]

Our opponents smell blood, and rightly so. We are a wounded animal right now, and very vulnerable. 

[BackOfTheNet]

Post split we’re playing six pointers. People (especially on here) all too willing to just accept we’ll lose to the OF and discount those games, so it’s only really 9 points up for grabs. Aberdeen likely to get into form to be top 6, and our form against them is crap, so maybe 6 or 7 points. Derbies you never know. So some - not saying I am - could argue we might only get anywhere from zero to seven points post split, with likelihood more in the region of three to four points. Not saying that myself, but if that argument was being made it’s not a ridiculous one to make.

 

So in that case it depends what position we are in as we enter the split. 9 points ahead at the moment, what do we do in the next 6 games? I’m not confident for the next two at least, I’ll reserve my judgement for games after that depending on how we play in the upcoming two.

 

3rd is more of a reality than a fantasy - as we we’re currently 3rd and it’s our to lose. However, anyone thinking we’re anywhere near securing 3rd are living in fantasy land. Problem is, we really should have been taking about being 15 points ahead in 3rd right now (if not more).

Edited February 20, 2022 by BackOfTheNet

[jamboozy]

12 minutes ago, innerjambo said:

Our opponents smell blood, and rightly so. We are a wounded animal right now, and very vulnerable. 

Most worthy teams would snarl and fight back, we retreat to a corner and lick our wounds.

[davemclaren]

14 minutes ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

I said this weeks ago, that we should have had third sewn up by now and allowing us to play fringe players and youth. The sooner third is confirmed then we know we have Europe to look forward to and the players can be rested. Now we are looking at the POSSIBILITY of missing out and this is down to the manager.

We have had the POSSIBILITY of losing out on third all season. It would be nice to be teeny points ahead but we’re certainly not good enough for that. 
 

Third place is certainly still a realistic target and is far from a fantasy imo. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

We have had the POSSIBILITY of losing out on third all season. It would be nice to be teeny points ahead but we’re certainly not good enough for that. 
 

Third place is certainly still a realistic target and is far from a fantasy imo. 

You say we are not good enough, so who is to blame? Had we won the last two games we would be six points better off ( not an impossible feat considering they were both bottom at the time ) I will concede the Hibs game was down to poor officials and could have been three more points. so we could possibly have been on 49 points or even 52, with Hibs on 34. A much more realistic chance of third is it not?

[Boab]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

We have had the POSSIBILITY of losing out on third all season. It would be nice to be teeny points ahead but we’re certainly not good enough for that. 
 

Third place is certainly still a realistic target and is far from a fantasy imo. 

A target at the start of the season, sure, but the circumstances have changed somewhat. Like probably the majority, I thought not achieving third a couple of weeks back, was unthinkable.

Now we have RN coming out saying we were bottom two years ago and have progressed.

He's right of course, we have, but lose 3rd spot now would be pretty damning.

[davemclaren]

Just now, Ex member of the SaS said:

You say we are not good enough, so who is to blame? Had we won the last two games we would be six points better off ( not an impossible feat considering they were both bottom at the time ) I will concede the Hibs game was down to poor officials and could have been three more points. so we could possibly have been on 49 points or even 52, with Hibs on 34. A much more realistic chance of third is it not?

If we had won every, or any, game we have drawn or lost we would have a higher chance.   However, we are not good enough to do that. We are in a slump and need to get out of it quickly. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

2 minutes ago, Boab said:

A target at the start of the season, sure, but the circumstances have changed somewhat. Like probably the majority, I thought not achieving third a couple of weeks back, was unthinkable.

Now we have RN coming out saying we were bottom two years ago and have progressed.

He's right of course, we have, but lose 3rd spot now would be pretty damning.

For a manager to quote stats from two years ago shows he is desperate to find something good to say about his tenure.

[davemclaren]

3 minutes ago, Boab said:

A target at the start of the season, sure, but the circumstances have changed somewhat. Like probably the majority, I thought not achieving third a couple of weeks back, was unthinkable.

Now we have RN coming out saying we were bottom two years ago and have progressed.

He's right of course, we have, but lose 3rd spot now would be pretty damning.

Third is still a realistic target now. 

[jbee647]

The thing is I have absolutely no faith in those in power at Hearts to pick the right guy.

Remember that decision won’t be made by Joe Savage, he may make recommendations but he won’t have anything like the final say.

Anne Budge and her board are not football savvy at all, and there is a real possibility as had happened previously that we end up with a worse coach than we have now.

 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by jbee647

[lost in space]

I think we will get 3rd - despite our manager.  Even somebody as pathetic as Neilson will have to change formation.

 

Hobos are 9 points  behind. There are 11 games left (33 points) .  Hobos would need to do something like W7 D2 L2 - which would add 23 points.  For us to beat them we would need W4 D3 L4.

 

Will we win 4 more games this season??  We will if Neilson goes or he changes his methods.

 

I know other teams are in with a chance of catching us - but I dont think any of them are capable of puting a run together - winning 7 out of 11 games.

[davemclaren]

Just now, jbee647 said:

The thing is I have absolutely no faith in those in power at Hearts to pick the right guy.

Remember that decision won’t be made by Joe Savage, he may make recommendations but he won’t have anything like the final say.

Anne Budge and her board are not football savvy at all, and there is a real possibility as had happened previously that we end up with a worse coach than we have now.

 

 

 

If Savage is the man everyone thinks he is then surely that’s some evidence that the board are football savvy in some measure? 🤷‍♂️

[Ex member of the SaS]

Just now, davemclaren said:

If we had won every, or any, game we have drawn or lost we would have a higher chance.   However, we are not good enough to do that. We are in a slump and need to get out of it quickly. 

Not looking for an argument Dave, but this is exactly what we have been saying. ( we are not good enough but we do have the players who are good enough )  I am not suggesting we should win EVERY game but surely even you have to admit we SHOULD be winning against the bottom two. Had we won the games I quoted then third would virtually be done and dusted then we could play fringe and youth, and resting players.

So what do you suggest we do to get out of this slump? 

[Boab]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Third is still a realistic target now. 

Of course and I'm half glass full enough to think that we can go to Paisley and win, with other results aiding our quest for third.

[grumpyespana]

It was a reality two weeks ago third place but we seem to have no direction now so its going to be hard to keep in 3rd but I still live in hope we get our act together and limp over the line.

[jamboozy]

1 minute ago, jbee647 said:

The thing is I have absolutely no faith in those in power at Hearts to pick the right guy.

Remember that decision won’t be made by Joe Savage, he may make recommendations but he won’t have anything like the final say.

Anne Budge and her board are not football savvy at all, and there is a real possibility as had happened previously that we end up with a worse coach than we have now.

 

 

 

‘Who’d have though it, we were looking for a manager, and here!, all along the perfect man has been unemployed and sitting In the house all along’

       ‘Erm, we sacked him Ann , remember?’

       ‘Oh! Did we? Oh well, another scone anyone? ‘

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

Not looking for an argument Dave, but this is exactly what we have been saying. ( we are not good enough but we do have the players who are good enough )  I am not suggesting we should win EVERY game but surely even you have to admit we SHOULD be winning against the bottom two. Had we won the games I quoted then third would virtually be done and dusted then we could play fringe and youth, and resting players.

So what do you suggest we do to get out of this slump? 

We need to start winning again. Every team outside the OF has had a slump of varying length.  To be fair, even the OF had wee wee slumps ( in relative ) as well. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

I would say at this point, it could go either way. 
 

I’ll honestly say that the entire season and neilsons future as our manager probably hinges on Halkett.
 

The whole teams basically been built round him. So Neilson has got to find the solution in his absence pronto or the rot may set in. 

[jambogaza]

2 hours ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

I would say at this point, it could go either way. 
 

I’ll honestly say that the entire season and neilsons future as our manager probably hinges on Halkett.
 

The whole teams basically been built round him. So Neilson has got to find the solution in his absence pronto or the rot may set in. 

 

It is a worry. The next two games will give us a solid indication as to whether third place is slipping from our grasp. 5 league defeats in a row should, IMO, bring Neilson's time to an end. We would need an immediate replacement to help give the squad the lift they need to battle it out for third place. This is no time for loyalty. We must finish third and do everything we can to secure it. If that means binning Neilson for the run in, so be it.

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, lost in space said:

I think we will get 3rd - despite our manager.  Even somebody as pathetic as Neilson will have to change formation.

 

Hobos are 9 points  behind. There are 11 games left (33 points) .  Hobos would need to do something like W7 D2 L2 - which would add 23 points.  For us to beat them we would need W4 D3 L4.

 

Will we win 4 more games this season??  We will if Neilson goes or he changes his methods.

 

I know other teams are in with a chance of catching us - but I dont think any of them are capable of puting a run together - winning 7 out of 11 games.

For Hibs to get the points you indicate would require a remarkable turnaround in their form and results. They still have Celtic, us and probably Aberdeen to play twice and Rangers once. How many points do you think they will get from those seven games? Dundee Utd are currently a much bigger threat than Hibs. 

[Thomaso]

4 hours ago, Boris5115 said:

We had the perfect fixture to get back on track after the Ibrox result. Dundee at home with everyone around us losing that night we could have opened up a 15 point gap. Unfortunately Robbie couldn't out fox McJake. That is where the free fall started not Ibrox. 

This!

[lost in space]

13 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

For Hibs to get the points you indicate would require a remarkable turnaround in their form and results. They still have Celtic, us and probably Aberdeen to play twice and Rangers once. How many points do you think they will get from those seven games? Dundee Utd are currently a much bigger threat than Hibs. 

I think hobos could get 18 points from remaining 11 games - W5 D3 L3. So we would "only" need 10 to beat them.

As you say United are a bigger threat, especially if they win today. They are nothing special though. 

If only we had the work ethic of their players and some tactical awareness.

[coatbridgejambo]

12 hours ago, wattie exploited said:

with the way we have been playing since the split how many people on here think we will get third spot !

I personally will be gutted if we don't but with the way of play and losing to the bottom two teams  who haven't won in 19 games and 10 games previous before playing hearts does not offer  a lot off promise !

we lack creativity in midfield and look really lack of ideas right now !

fair enough we had made a great start to the season which was great to watch but now it is back to being pretty bleak !

we need the energy back in the team which we seem to have lost of late   

 

Atm I think we'll blow it. When the pressure is really on I think this lot will crumble 

[Armageddon]

3rd is total fantasy.  And the way the cup could go 3rd should get straight to the group stages, but we’ll feck that big time and lose out on millions.  Just because of one man.

[thegreatsd]

Third is still on. It’s been a horrible run we’ve been on which coincides with the whole Souttar situation. Seems to have put a bit of a downer on things on and off the field. Not saying this is the cause by any means. It’s that time of the season where most teams struggle with injuries and smaller squads. The massive frustration for me is looking at those last six games and dropping 14 points is that if we had somehow won all those games we would only be 3 points off the top. Just need to get a win in the next game and get the confidence up again and cement third. 
 

We’ve got a lot of decent players but there are questions over how we set up. Need to play our best 11 every week in a formation that suits them. Still seem to be playing players out of position and overly ponderous too often. It’s a really frustrating time at the moment but we need to get behind our team as there is plenty to play for. I’m on the fence with our manager for the time being but as long as he’s here I’m hoping he does something good. Neilson won’t be going anywhere soon so let’s get behind the guy too and give him our full backing as long as we are sitting third and in the cup. Plus I really don’t think there are many great realistic alternatives just now. 

[Henroddy]

Reality is buying and it's biting hard. Too hard for some. Bottom line is we only just got promoted.  We have been woeful previous 2 seasons even though we won championship. A good 2st few months of the season saw some on here believing we could win the league.  Hopefully they have calmed down now. Yes there is a place for optimism. That's until realism kicks in. Do I think we will "hold on" for 3rd? Possibly. But only because other teams are worse. A couple more defeats and we will be floundering for top 6. That's reality. Not fantasy

[highlandjambo3]

Some of these are needed in here :

 

 

 

[feej]

Neilson will be hanging on to the fact that the objective was top 6 so any placing in there will be objective achieved. If we don't maintain top 3 he will conveniently ignore the fact he blew that.

If  no wins in the next couple of matches he should walk away.

[wattie exploited]

12 hours ago, Ked said:

Our movement off the ball is chronic.

And there seems to be very little set play imagination.

 

what movement we play to many balls sided ways and back the way !

the only person who actually makes any runs in is  Simm !!!!!! 

 

[BackOfTheNet]

Our next 3 fixtures:

 

St Mirren (A)

Aberdeen (H)

Dundee Utd (A)

 

Dundee Utd’s next 3 fixtures:

 

Aberdeen (A)

Livingston (A)

Hearts (H)

 

Dundee Utd after drawing against the team that humped us 5-0 have joined Hibs and Motherwell on being 9 points behind us. It’s not inconceivable that when we play each other March 5th that they could be looking to go level with us on points with a victory.

Edited February 20, 2022 by BackOfTheNet

[AlphonseCapone]

We've been exceptionally poor but we've still got a 9 point lead. We need to get out this funk immediately and if we do, we've got lucky with the lack of damage done really. But if this continues for even another 2 games, we'll have went from cruising 3rd to being in a serious battle that we might not win. 

[BackOfTheNet]

10 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Our next 3 fixtures:

 

St Mirren (A)

Aberdeen (H)

Dundee Utd (A)

 

Dundee Utd’s next 3 fixtures:

 

Aberdeen (A)

Livingston (A)

Hearts (H)

 

Dundee Utd after drawing against the team that humped us 5-0 have joined Hibs and Motherwell on being 9 points behind us. It’s not inconceivable that when we play each other March 5th that they could be looking to go level with us on points with a victory.

Hibs next 3 fixtures:

 

Celtic (H)

Dundee (A)

St. Johnstone (H)

 

Not inconceivable that Hibs could be within 3 points of after that round of fixtures.

 

Motherwell’s next 3 fixtures:

 

Rangers (A)

Ross County (H)

Dundee (H)

 

Again, not inconceivable after the next 3 fixtures Motherwell could be within 3 points of us.

 

This is the point being made. Come the split, if the gap is only 3 or 6 points, we’re in desperate danger of being overtaken. We need to beat St. Mirren next week, not a draw, a win.