***World Cup Play-off Draw - Ukraine. ***

[WheatfieldWarrior]

11 minutes ago, TNCASTLE said:

I watched it in Australia. My view is this, nobody can compete with the level of motivation that Ukraine had.

A simple choice between kicking a football around OR carrying a NLAW missile launcher on the Front Lines.

They’d have beaten France in Paris tonight….

 

 

Paris? - I doubt they'd have even been able to get into the ground.

[WheatfieldWarrior]

20 minutes ago, whodanny said:

See you in the Wheatfield next season Jambo. HHGH.

HHGH Mate! 

[jambo1975]

Can't be arsed scrolling thru this thread but when a manager takes one of the most successful left sided players this season and play him on the right maybe he not the manager we think he is. Oh and can we just agree that John Mcginn rotten 

[WheatfieldWarrior]

29 minutes ago, tiger Rudi said:

Playing at international level, you play the best players available in each position, it's not rocket science. You don't make a good left sided player, play out of position (Hickey) as a not so good right wing back. It's one thing doing it at club level but christ this was the World Cup qualifier!! Same story with McTominay. Clarke tried this before & Robertson was shite on the right. Did he not learn! Hickey is not even an established international yet. Ralston & even O Donnell should have played before him. Souttar was outstanding at Hampden, if there wasn't a place for McTominay in midfield, he shouldn't have started. Round pegs in square holes at this level doesn't work. Ukraine were excellent, our first half long ball game to Dykes was out of the dark ages ffs. Christie is an intelligent tidy player and should start from now on. He does the same link up play Boyce does, only better. 

 

Hickey drew with AC Milan and Juventus and beat Inter in games this April.  He played Right Wing Back against Milan and Juve. Left Wing Back against Inter.

[JimmyCant]

4 minutes ago, jambo1975 said:

Can't be arsed scrolling thru this thread but when a manager takes one of the most successful left sided players this season and play him on the right maybe he not the manager we think he is. Oh and can we just agree that John Mcginn rotten 

Hickey (I assume you are talking about) is not going to start LWB instead of Robertson. I think for the boys sake he would have been better blooding him in the nations league games because tonight didn’t do him any favours, apart from a brief fight back second half where he got a bit of space.

 

McGinn has dropped a level this last season but he’s not rotten. He’s capable of better that’s for sure.

[Kiwidoug]

I bet Craig Gordon would have been much more comfortable with Halkett and Souttar in front of him. Not to be.

[Dennis Reynolds]

1 minute ago, WheatfieldWarrior said:

 

Hickey drew with AC Milan and Juventus and beat Inter in games this April.  He played Right Wing Back against Milan and Juve. Left Wing Back against Inter.

 

He was fantastic against Juve and they Juve were extremely lucky to get the draw. It's a position he's very capable in. Bit of an off night tonight but him playing RWB isn't as mental as whats being made out on here. The other option was Stephen O'Donnell.

[JimmyCant]

11 minutes ago, Dennis Reynolds said:

 

He was fantastic against Juve and they Juve were extremely lucky to get the draw. It's a position he's very capable in. Bit of an off night tonight but him playing RWB isn't as mental as whats being made out on here. The other option was Stephen O'Donnell.

Fine playing him at RWB if you’re playing an Italian wing back system where they track back to cover wide midfield or they’ll tuck in but their emphasis is attacking and you certainly wouldn’t normally see one primarily defending or mis-matched with a giant at the back post. I thought he did okay once there was a bit of space up the right. Before that he was getting the ball too deep and no one showing for it. He didn’t look great at the second goal either but as I said - left with a mismatch defensively

[WheatfieldWarrior]

22 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

I bet Craig Gordon would have been much more comfortable with Halkett and Souttar in front of him. Not to be.

 

Would probably have been more comfortable with Olivier Tebily, Efe Ambrose and Jordan McGhee in front. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by WheatfieldWarrior

[WheatfieldWarrior]

39 minutes ago, jambo1975 said:

Can't be arsed scrolling thru this thread but when a manager takes one of the most successful left sided players this season and play him on the right maybe he not the manager we think he is. Oh and can we just agree that John Mcginn rotten 

 

 

I agree on McGinn.  You'd think with a puss as ugly as that he's be more practiced at headers. 

[Spellczech]

Clarke messed up when it mattered again. McTominay still being played at CB...leaving 3 CBs on the bench? And then partner him with a defender from Norwich who has spent the last season watching goals being scored against his team for fun...

[Pasquale for King]

17 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Fine playing him at RWB if you’re playing an Italian wing back system where they track back to cover wide midfield or they’ll tuck in but their emphasis is attacking and you certainly wouldn’t normally see one primarily defending or mis-matched with a giant at the back post. I thought he did okay once there was a bit of space up the right. Before that he was getting the ball too deep and no one showing for it. He didn’t look great at the second goal either but as I said - left with a mismatch defensively

It was McTominay that was supposed to be marking Yaremculk, Hickey was on Zincenko but tried to cover late on 

[TNCASTLE]

1 hour ago, WheatfieldWarrior said:

 

Paris? - I doubt they'd have even been able to get into the ground.

Motivation is everything, they had it all for reasons explained. You just can’t overcome that. 6-0 would have been a fairer result.

[gregzy2k7]

Wow, I'll be honest I didn't even know this was on until I checked the score, being Scottish it's dissapointing to miss out on the World cup yet again but tbh I'm really not that bothered, have said before, I care more about Hearts winning a corner than Scotland winning a match.

Each to their own though, gutted more for Craig Gordon than anything else. Looks like it will be ABE yet again, also congrats to Ukraine, hope they pump the Welsh as well.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

 

They were so far ahead of us, especially so in a technical sense, it wasn't remotely humerous.

Granted, we've been playing better recently, but tonight showed just how far we still have to go and I doubt we'll ever get there.

That's my tuppence worth.

 

 

 

[WheatfieldWarrior]

16 minutes ago, TNCASTLE said:

Motivation is everything, they had it all for reasons explained. You just can’t overcome that. 6-0 would have been a fairer result.

 

I was really just make a jibe at the French police's handling of the European Cup final.

[Kiwidoug]

33 minutes ago, J.T.F.Robertson said:

 

They were so far ahead of us, especially so in a technical sense, it wasn't remotely humerous.

Granted, we've been playing better recently, but tonight showed just how far we still have to go and I doubt we'll ever get there.

That's my tuppence worth.

 

 

 

It was the same with Croatia.  Miles ahead of us.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

4 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

It was the same with Croatia.  Miles ahead of us.

 

It's only a game. 😛

[VALDOS']

3 hours ago, tiger Rudi said:

Playing at international level, you play the best players available in each position, it's not rocket science. You don't make a good left sided player, play out of position (Hickey) as a not so good right wing back. It's one thing doing it at club level but christ this was the World Cup qualifier!! Same story with McTominay. Clarke tried this before & Robertson was shite on the right. Did he not learn! Hickey is not even an established international yet. Ralston & even O Donnell should have played before him. Souttar was outstanding at Hampden, if there wasn't a place for McTominay in midfield, he shouldn't have started. Round pegs in square holes at this level doesn't work. Ukraine were excellent, our first half long ball game to Dykes was out of the dark ages ffs. Christie is an intelligent tidy player and should start from now on. He does the same link up play Boyce does, only better. 

Pretty much agree with all of this.

Regarding Hickey, it's not popular opinion on here, but the lad isn't a Robertson or Tierney, he's not at a level where you have to find a way of getting him in the team. McTominay is also in that category, he's not good enough to say we must get him in here, even if it is that he plays out of position.

Edited June 2, 2022 by VALDOS'

[Angel eyes]

Thought following Scotland wasn’t about the result or the football thought it was the banter.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

2 hours ago, gregzy2k7 said:

Wow, I'll be honest I didn't even know this was on until I checked the score, being Scottish it's dissapointing to miss out on the World cup yet again but tbh I'm really not that bothered, have said before, I care more about Hearts winning a corner than Scotland winning a match.

Each to their own though, gutted more for Craig Gordon than anything else. Looks like it will be ABE yet again, also congrats to Ukraine, hope they pump the Welsh as well.

How could you not realise it was on?

[gregzy2k7]

2 hours ago, Jambo 4 Ever said:

How could you not realise it was on?

I haven't lived in Scotland for the last 6 years and I don't read much news these days, it's quite easy actually, I knew there was a qualifier but forgot the dates.

[Newton51]

5 hours ago, gregzy2k7 said:

Wow, I'll be honest I didn't even know this was on until I checked the score, being Scottish it's dissapointing to miss out on the World cup yet again but tbh I'm really not that bothered, have said before, I care more about Hearts winning a corner than Scotland winning a match.

Each to their own though, gutted more for Craig Gordon than anything else. Looks like it will be ABE yet again, also congrats to Ukraine, hope they pump the Welsh as well.

I thought the whole world knew the game was on from the Ukraine side of things. I’ll be supporting them on Sunday as they do deserve it after everything they have been thru. Felt Scotland treated them with too respect on the pitch due to the current situation 

[CostaJambo]

Oh well, if ever there was a World Cup to miss out on I reckon it's this one and that it will go down in history as the worst to date. 

[The Treasurer]

Well now that this shite is out the way we can get back to discussing real football.

 

#Only Hearts

[Baxfee]

As a complete aside why does mcgregor continue to wear the mask? His injury must be healed by now 

[gashauskis9]

5 hours ago, VALDOS' said:

Pretty much agree with all of this.

Regarding Hickey, it's not popular opinion on here, but the lad isn't a Robertson or Tierney, he's not at a level where you have to find a way of getting him in the team. McTominay is also in that category, he's not good enough to say we must get him in here, even if it is that he plays out of position.

Agreed.  Truth be told though, if Patterson had been fit last night, Hickey wouldn’t have started. 
 

The only players who have to play imo are Gordon, Tierney, Robertson and McGinn.  The rest aren’t international class on a consistent basis and are replaceable.  Based on the current squad, if we are playing a back three and Tierney is out, then it should be Souttar, Hendry and McKenna. Cooper isn’t a LCB and McTominay isn’t a RCB.  Hanley’s days are behind him sadly.  Great servant to the national team, and an unsung hero in many games, but he was shocking last night.  

[TexasAndy]

Trying hard not to be too critical of Scotland this morning.  We were outclassed by Ukraine first and foremost.  In order to get a result we would have had to have played at our best.  Sadly our team looked leggy.  McGinn looked like he was wearing deep sea divers boots.  By contrast  Ukraine looked fresh and more hungry for this.  We can talk about team selection and tactics but truth is we just weren't at it.  I hope Ukraine go on to beat Wales on Sunday.  

[PapaShango]

Picked the wrong team simple as that. If your playing 3 at the back at least one of them needs to actually be able to play. Best man in the squad to play was Souttar, a far better option than either Cooper or Hanley. The latter is dreadful and should never play for Scotland again on last nights evidence, he looked a Sunday league player. Cooper wasn't any better, his positioning on the first goal was terrible. Dykes in another one that shouldn't have been playing. His form for QPR has been awful so to then play that last night is baffling. I don't think Clarke picks them on their current form, more on how they played for Scotland the last time (see Marshall as an example in the Euros). 

 

Anyway, saves us getting hammered in the WC. I have no doubt Wales will beat the Ukraine on Sunday. Took us 60 minutes to realise the keeper was all over the place and terrible. I suspect Wales will pepper his goal with shots and crosses early on Sunday. 

[Bull's-eye]

One team wanted it a lot more than the other, that's the simple truth.

 

Not really difficult to realise why.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

1 minute ago, PapaShango said:

Picked the wrong team simple as that. If your playing 3 at the back at least one of them needs to actually be able to play. Best man in the squad to play was Souttar, a far better option than either Cooper or Hanley. The latter is dreadful and should never play for Scotland again on last nights evidence, he looked a Sunday league player. Cooper wasn't any better, his positioning on the first goal was terrible. Dykes in another one that shouldn't have been playing. His form for QPR has been awful so to then play that last night is baffling. I don't think Clarke picks them on their current form, more on how they played for Scotland the last time (see Marshall as an example in the Euros). 

 

Anyway, saves us getting hammered in the WC. I have no doubt Wales will beat the Ukraine on Sunday. Took us 60 minutes to realise the keeper was all over the place and terrible. I suspect Wales will pepper his goal with shots and crosses early on Sunday. 

I think Hanley has got to hold the record for “should never play for Scotland again”s. I have said that about him on at least 7 or 8 catastrophically bad performances from him. Clarkes bias in favour of the level guys play at has been exposed again. He doesn’t pick on ability nor how a player fits into a role / system, but on level of league. Mctominay Cooper Hanley have been playing in the premier league therefore they’re picked. Absolutely shite call with Hendry and Souttar both fit and not only that but outnumbered in midfield. Mctominay is a ****ing midfielder for FFS Stevie and not only that but the ideal midfielder to get us in the fight in midfield in that game. 
 

Worst selection call possibly in the history of the Scottish national team 

[RustyRightPeg]

9 hours ago, WheatfieldWarrior said:

 

I've never seen Robertson play well. not once. 

 
There’s a difference when you’re overlapping some of the best attackers in the world and when you play wing back without the ability to beat a man which is what Robertson lacks IMO. 

[PapaShango]

3 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

I think Hanley has got to hold the record for “should never play for Scotland again”s. I have said that about him on at least 7 or 8 catastrophically bad performances from him. Clarkes bias in favour of the level guys play at has been exposed again. He doesn’t pick on ability nor how a player fits into a role / system, but on level of league. Mctominay Cooper Hanley have been playing in the premier league therefore they’re picked. Absolutely shite call with Hendry and Souttar both fit and not only that but outnumbered in midfield. Mctominay is a ****ing midfielder for FFS Stevie and not only that but the ideal midfielder to get us in the fight in midfield in that game. 
 

Worst selection call possibly in the history of the Scottish national team 

Hanley has been a nightmare for Norwich and played in one of the worst defences in the league. I can't remember him ever playing well for Scotland, bar maybe one or two games. In the main he's been awful, he's slow and his reading of the game is shocking. Souttar and Hendry should have both played all day long. Clarke got what he deserved with that selection last night. 

[Deevers]

1 minute ago, PapaShango said:

Hanley has been a nightmare for Norwich and played in one of the worst defences in the league. I can't remember him ever playing well for Scotland, bar maybe one or two games. In the main he's been awful, he's slow and his reading of the game is shocking. Souttar and Hendry should have both played all day long. Clarke got what he deserved with that selection last night. 

Spot on with that observation.  His selection last night was rank rotten. I’d be surprised if he survives that shit show. 

[Mister T]

7 hours ago, WheatfieldWarrior said:

 

 

I agree on McGinn.  You'd think with a puss as ugly as that he's be more practiced at headers. 

He did do his arseoutfallover get a free kick routine a couple of times. Other than that he was pish as he normally is. 

[JDK2020]

Manager pish*, his team pish, fans pish, atmosphere pish.

Then watch the telly to see bbc highlights and Michael Stewart co-comms was pish and the biggest pish of all was Ryan Porteous as a pundit.

Who the feck organised that? If you could epitomise the pishiness of the whole debacle it was seeing that gormless fool raking over the ashes of a pish match.

 

*pished?

[JDK2020]

9 hours ago, tiger Rudi said:

Playing at international level, you play the best players available in each position, it's not rocket science. You don't make a good left sided player, play out of position (Hickey) as a not so good right wing back. It's one thing doing it at club level but christ this was the World Cup qualifier!! Same story with McTominay. Clarke tried this before & Robertson was shite on the right. Did he not learn! Hickey is not even an established international yet. Ralston & even O Donnell should have played before him. Souttar was outstanding at Hampden, if there wasn't a place for McTominay in midfield, he shouldn't have started. Round pegs in square holes at this level doesn't work. Ukraine were excellent, our first half long ball game to Dykes was out of the dark ages ffs. Christie is an intelligent tidy player and should start from now on. He does the same link up play Boyce does, only better. 

 

Great Post. Now why cant a highly paid manager see all that?

[TheBigO]

50 minutes ago, gashauskis9 said:

Agreed.  Truth be told though, if Patterson had been fit last night, Hickey wouldn’t have started. 
 

The only players who have to play imo are Gordon, Tierney, Robertson and McGinn.  The rest aren’t international class on a consistent basis and are replaceable.  Based on the current squad, if we are playing a back three and Tierney is out, then it should be Souttar, Hendry and McKenna. Cooper isn’t a LCB and McTominay isn’t a RCB.  Hanley’s days are behind him sadly.  Great servant to the national team, and an unsung hero in many games, but he was shocking last night.  

Youre wrong on McGinn imo. Horrifically overrated. Good at what he does in a team that can accomodate his complete lack of a brain or control.

 

At international level, over and over again his deficiencies put us in trouble. He did well when he was played off the front (him and Christie off the CF) and i dont know why we ever binned that. But if he needs to be involved in midfield in the slightest hes a liability

 

 

[Tommy Brown]

14 minutes ago, JDK2020 said:

Manager pish*, his team pish, fans pish, atmosphere pish.

Then watch the telly to see bbc highlights and Michael Stewart co-comms was pish and the biggest pish of all was Ryan Porteous as a pundit.

Who the feck organised that? If you could epitomise the pishiness of the whole debacle it was seeing that gormless fool raking over the ashes of a pish match.

 

*pished?

sad but true

[Wee Mikey]

22 minutes ago, JDK2020 said:

Manager pish*, his team pish, fans pish, atmosphere pish.

Then watch the telly to see bbc highlights and Michael Stewart co-comms was pish and the biggest pish of all was Ryan Porteous as a pundit.

Who the feck organised that? If you could epitomise the pishiness of the whole debacle it was seeing that gormless fool raking over the ashes of a pish match.

 

*pished?

 

Maybe Clarke is positioning himself to be the next H1b5 manager come December. He'll have plenty to frown about then.

 

 

[Debut 4]

14 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Youre wrong on McGinn imo. Horrifically overrated. Good at what he does in a team that can accomodate his complete lack of a brain or control.

 

At international level, over and over again his deficiencies put us in trouble. He did well when he was played off the front (him and Christie off the CF) and i dont know why we ever binned that. But if he needs to be involved in midfield in the slightest hes a liability

 

 

He’s become obsessed with bumping his arse off opponents.  It’s all he did last night. Looked like it’s doubled size, bigger than a rhinos.   

 

Just try and play fitbaw!….
 

 

[skinnybob72]

Hopefully that’s the last we’ll see of Hanley in a Scotland jersey. Has he ever had a decent game for Scotland?

 

Baresi and Maldini are regarded as two of the best defenders of the modern era. If they had to put up with Hanley in their back 4 they would have looked like the Chuckle Brothers. 

[HeartofIron]

13 hours ago, August Landmesser said:

Good, that's the way it should be. Hate when English fans get all condescending and support Scotland/Wales/Ireland, then weep great salty tears when we don't return the favour!

I'm English, and I take great delight in Scotland getting pumped. 

 

Another glorious night night international football last night!! 

 

Happy days. Now off for cucumber sandwiches with the Queen.......

 

 

[colinmaroon]

11 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Oh grow up. The world's a tough place. You feeling cuddly about Ukraine won't change a thing.

 

 

Ditto!  Before you start pointing the finger have a look in the mirror and stop being a brat.

 

To describe my sympathy for what is happening in Ukraine as "feeling cuddly" is crass, insulting and pathetic.

 

You just carry on sitting safe behind your device while real people, men, women and children, are blown to bits, tortured, raped, murdered and shot and have a good laugh at it.

 

What a fantastic "person" you are!!!

 

[Spellczech]

50 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

I think Hanley has got to hold the record for “should never play for Scotland again”s. I have said that about him on at least 7 or 8 catastrophically bad performances from him. Clarkes bias in favour of the level guys play at has been exposed again. He doesn’t pick on ability nor how a player fits into a role / system, but on level of league. Mctominay Cooper Hanley have been playing in the premier league therefore they’re picked. Absolutely shite call with Hendry and Souttar both fit and not only that but outnumbered in midfield. Mctominay is a ****ing midfielder for FFS Stevie and not only that but the ideal midfielder to get us in the fight in midfield in that game. 
 

Worst selection call possibly in the history of the Scottish national team 

Agree with this. There are certain players who should've been nowhere near the team based on the season they've had a club level - Hanley and Dykes being the most obvious, but Gilmour has to be included too. However, I think you can play one out of form player based on how you want the team to play. Last night Clarke wrongly chose hoofball tactics so should've played Dykes not Gilmour. Personally I'd have let the team play as they CAN play a bit, and Gilmour is vital for that so I'd not have played Dykes. 

 

As I said above playing McTominay as a CB when he personally has had a very good season in a poor Man Utd campaign was stupid and made worse by having 3 CBs on the bench including Souttar who was immense against Denmark and had a excellent season when not injured. The cup final showed he was ready to be in the team, and if we'd played football not hoofball he'd have been as vital as Gilmour...

 

Clarke messed up - again. He's been over-promoted...

[JDK2020]

It all starts...and ends...with Clarke, a darling of the weeja meeja.

 

But, putting out a boring team on a plastic pitch in kilmarnock to occasionally confound the OF does not a successful international manager maketh. 

 

[The Treasurer]

15 minutes ago, HeartofIron said:

I'm English, and I take great delight in Scotland getting pumped. 

 

Another glorious night night international football last night!! 

 

Happy days. Now off for cucumber sandwiches with the Queen.......

 

 

What a hobo-esque post.

Basking in the failure of others due to the lack of real success of your own overrated team

[TheBigO]

24 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

He’s become obsessed with bumping his arse off opponents.  It’s all he did last night. Looked like it’s doubled size, bigger than a rhinos.   

 

Just try and play fitbaw!….
 

 

I dont think he can play football is the issue there. He hits good long passes, has a good shot, takes a decent setpiece. He can cause havoc occasionally with an uncontrolled charge.

 

Thats it. He’s zero nous, zero intelligence. What id term very little "football".

 

[Ex member of the SaS]

43 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Youre wrong on McGinn imo. Horrifically overrated. Good at what he does in a team that can accomodate his complete lack of a brain or control.

 

At international level, over and over again his deficiencies put us in trouble. He did well when he was played off the front (him and Christie off the CF) and i dont know why we ever binned that. But if he needs to be involved in midfield in the slightest hes a liability

 

 

At last someone who agrees with me. Never rated him ( or his brothers ) and his Scotland role lived off one goal.

As for Clarke, I got the impression that he was happy with how far we have come and wanted Ukraine to win due to all that is going on. He can dine out on getting us this far for many years to come.

[soonbe110]

30 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

He’s become obsessed with bumping his arse off opponents.  It’s all he did last night. Looked like it’s doubled size, bigger than a rhinos.   

 

Just try and play fitbaw!….
 

 

Yep, Souness  summed it up perfectly last night. Scotland don’t play modern football, in fact they don’t play football. Just hump it long and play off the flicks.