***World Cup Play-off Draw - Ukraine. ***

[Spitonastranger]

The whole of Scottish football needs tore down, starting with the SFA. We need better grass roots football, get rid of the blazers, have proper coaching at all levels and have competitive leagues. We need kids to be coming through who are able to play football on decent pitches and training facilities. The kids being able to play for different teams etc. There are many problems with Scottish football as a entity and until that changes we will fail to compete.

[Ex member of the SaS]

The Scotsman player rating has Gordon on 6 ( the highest score ). Big Craig was the best player by far and far better than 6 as he could do nothing at the goals scored. 

[Weakened Offender]

22 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

What a hobo-esque post.

Basking in the failure of others due to the lack of real success of your own overrated team

 

This is actually more of a 'hobo-esque post', IMHO. 

[Costanza]

Clarke has enough credit in the bank with the SFA so won't be going anywhere. Our record up to last night was good but like the Czech game, Clarke was found wanting.

He was a bit unlucky with Tierney, Patterson and Jack missing but his line up was baffling and poor that he didn't try to sort it before half time as he could have gone to 4-2-3-1 much earlier.

His line up effectively hindered McTominay. Hickey and McGinn especially.

That said a number of players were way below par so it's not just on Clarke.

[upgotheheads]

I thought Hickey had a good game on a bad night for most of the rest of the team.

[PapaShango]

10 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

I thought Hickey had a good game on a bad night for most of the rest of the team.

I really like Hickey but didn't think he was great. Not sure if it's because of playing in Italy, however thought he was slow to react a few times and wanted longer on the ball. Maybe he's used to that over there. I think as a whole he wasn't helped by the cluster **** going on in the middle of the defence. Not one of the 3 centre halfs should have been playing there. Hanley and Cooper are nowhere near international quality and both showed up to be dreadful last night. Hanley has never been good, and has never delivered in a Scotland jersey. Everytime one of the CB's got the ball they shelled it long to Dykes. Scotland deserved nothing from the game, the only one to get pass marks for me was Gordon. If it wasn't for him it would have been a more embarrassing result.

[Sooks]

How out of his depth was Kris Boyd next to Souness

[tian447]

The thing that annoyed me the most about last night is how Ukraine passed the ball around us.  Time and time again, simple one-two passes, running into space that we didn't bother tracking or anticipating.  Their players were always on the move, always passing the ball on the ground, short simple stuff, and it worked.  Why can't we ever do that? 

 

We boot it forward and hope for the best. We put crosses into the box when there's absolutely nobody there, no one anticipating the ball at the penalty spot or the back post. We cross to one or two players, and it goes nowhere.  Every other team will have players making runs into the box, but we rely on hoping someone is already there. 

 

Their second goal was amateur defending. McTominay didn't even leave the ground to try and get his head on it, and Hanley at the back post trying to clear it was woeful. It's like we didn't even try and play football last night.

 

I said to my partner, if Scotland don't go 1-0 up and hold out, we're never winning this. I just don't see the goals in us, because we don't work hard enough to make anything happen, and play at such a pedestrian pace. As soon as it went 1-0, and after watching the first half, we knew it was over and it wasn't worth watching.

 

It's sadly predictable, and we need to start doing something that involves more than hitting and hoping. We might not have the world class players that other teams have, but christ, if we can't beat teams like Ukraine, we have no right being at a World Cup. 

[maroonlegions]

13 minutes ago, tian447 said:

The thing that annoyed me the most about last night is how Ukraine passed the ball around us.  Time and time again, simple one-two passes, running into space that we didn't bother tracking or anticipating.  Their players were always on the move, always passing the ball on the ground, short simple stuff, and it worked.  Why can't we ever do that? 

 

We boot it forward and hope for the best. We put crosses into the box when there's absolutely nobody there, no one anticipating the ball at the penalty spot or the back post. We cross to one or two players, and it goes nowhere.  Every other team will have players making runs into the box, but we rely on hoping someone is already there. 

 

Their second goal was amateur defending. McTominay didn't even leave the ground to try and get his head on it, and Hanley at the back post trying to clear it was woeful. It's like we didn't even try and play football last night.

 

I said to my partner, if Scotland don't go 1-0 up and hold out, we're never winning this. I just don't see the goals in us, because we don't work hard enough to make anything happen, and play at such a pedestrian pace. As soon as it went 1-0, and after watching the first half, we knew it was over and it wasn't worth watching.

 

It's sadly predictable, and we need to start doing something that involves more than hitting and hoping. We might not have the world class players that other teams have, but christ, if we can't beat teams like Ukraine, we have no right being at a World Cup. 

Armstrong , Christe and Soutar should have started . Adams should have been off not Dykes.

 

We had no answer to their quick pass and movement.  

[The Treasurer]

1 hour ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

This is actually more of a 'hobo-esque post', IMHO. 

Sorry, you'll need to explain that one WO

[The Treasurer]

I don't think that Scotland have got much worse in recent years, it's just that all other nations have progressed and left us behind

[Harry Potter]

6 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

I don't think that Scotland have got much worse in recent years, it's just that all other nations have progressed and left us behind

A very good point.

[Chillidigits]

Felt like our players were burnt out after a long season whereas their lot looked a lot fresher and physically superior. Fresher perhaps because half their team played for clubs in Ukraine where football obviously suspended for most of 2022.

[JimmyCant]

4 minutes ago, Chillidigits said:

Felt like our players were burnt out after a long season whereas their lot looked a lot fresher and physically superior. Fresher perhaps because half their team played for clubs in Ukraine where football obviously suspended for most of 2022.

I thought they were a half decent side technically with a good midfield and they had a physical presence about them up front. They also had that huge motivating factor that we didn’t have (thankfully). I didn’t expect them to be so good, so fresh and so strong. I expected the motivational thing and thought we’d struggle against that alone. Give a whole pile of motivation to a half decent team and they’ll beat teams like Scotland all day long.

 

I think they’ll beat Wales comfortable too

[Spellczech]

34 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Armstrong , Christe and Soutar should have started . Adams should have been off not Dykes.

 

We had no answer to their quick pass and movement.  

If you play Dykes then you are pretty much saying hoofball tactics. We have limited choices up front but with Adams up front and Christie playing off him you force the team not to punt it high. You need to play it on the ground out from the back so you have to put Souttar in and move McTominay forward to be the DM with Gilmour and McGinn more free to be box to box. Based on available players last night...

 

Gordon

Hendry - Souttar - Cooper

Hickey - Gilmour - McTominay - McGinn - Robertson

Christie - Adams

 

The above team would've competed with Ukraine.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Spellczech

[Malinga the Swinga]

We stumbled, due to injury and suspension, on a good side and set up against Denmark. It was the best we have played, albeit against a team with nothing to play for, and deservedly won 2-0.

Clarke then made changes l to that starting 11, only 1 of which was needed as Tierney injured.

All of those he brought back into side weakened the team. No reason to do it apart from stubbornness and stupidity.

[Debut 4]

Robertson makes me twitch with the way he just won’t use his right foot.  

[Malinga the Swinga]

2 hours ago, colinmaroon said:

 

Ditto!  Before you start pointing the finger have a look in the mirror and stop being a brat.

 

To describe my sympathy for what is happening in Ukraine as "feeling cuddly" is crass, insulting and pathetic.

 

You just carry on sitting safe behind your device while real people, men, women and children, are blown to bits, tortured, raped, murdered and shot and have a good laugh at it.

 

What a fantastic "person" you are!!!

 

At no point did I laugh about what is happening on Ukraine. Won't find one post from me saying that anywhere, but you make it up if it makes you feel good about yourself, which is after all what you want. I just separated a football game from war. If you believe they're connected, then bully for you. If you believe Ukraine humiliating Scotland at football helps them in war against Russia, then bully for you.

Personally, I wanted Scotland to win and am gutted they lost. I also believe it will have zero impact on what is happening in Ukraine.

[karipidis]

10 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

If you play Dykes then you are pretty much saying hoofball tactics. We have limited choices up front but with Adams up front and Christie playing off him you force the team not to punt it high. You need to play it on the ground out from the back so you have to put Souttar in and move McTominay forward to be the DM with Gilmour and McGinn more free to be box to box. Based on available players last night...

 

Gordon

Hendry - Souttar - Cooper

Hickey - Gilmour - McTominay - McGinn - Robertson

Christie - Adams

 

The above team would've competed with Ukraine.

McGregor has to be in there. 

[HeartofIron]

2 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

This is actually more of a 'hobo-esque post', IMHO. 

Yes, thank you. 

 

Lived here for over 30yrs, and every 2yrs have to put up with the Scottish taking great delight every time England lose at a tournament.

 

I do agree that England are vastly overrated,  and I don't particularly enjoy watching them play their bland style of football - so its now become more joyous to me to be like the Scots, and actually enjoy my rivals losing more than my team winning. 

 

Having a great day at work so far by the way..... (fully in the knowledge that I'll be getting it back 10 ten times worse in December!!) 

[HeartofIron]

2 hours ago, The Treasurer said:

What a hobo-esque post.

Basking in the failure of others due to the lack of real success of your own overrated team

 

'Basking in the failure of others'.......

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!! 

 

So you didn't bask in Englands failure in the Euros then??! 

[Boab]

It will be a circus anyway !

If there was one not to qualify for, it's this one.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Boab

[Buccobruce]

The second biggest disappointment of the night was coming back and finding Porteous on the BBC! Wtf was he doing there? Wooden top with nothing insightful to add. 

[Smoked-Glass]

Ian crocker can gtf too. Embarrassing

[Spellczech]

1 hour ago, karipidis said:

McGregor has to be in there. 

True - was thinking off top of my head rather than looking at a list of players. Could replace any of the middle 3 with him TBH...McGinn was always going to play, so if you expected Ukraine to be robust in the middle, take out Gilmour, if not take out McTominay...

[Wee Mikey]

33 minutes ago, Buccobruce said:

The second biggest disappointment of the night was coming back and finding Porteous on the BBC! Wtf was he doing there? Wooden top with nothing insightful to add. 

 

You are being too kind. Porteous is too dumb to be a wooden top. He's thicker than the proverbial 2 short planks ... at least 4 planks on the Hibee Thick Plank Scale.

 

In the meantime, thanks for reminding me about 'Watch With Mother'.

 

 

[The Treasurer]

1 hour ago, HeartofIron said:

 

'Basking in the failure of others'.......

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!! 

 

So you didn't bask in Englands failure in the Euros then??! 

Not really, I was disappointed for the members of my family who are English

[Jambo in Bathgate]

4 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

This is actually more of a 'hobo-esque post', IMHO. 

👍

[Jambo in Bathgate]

2 hours ago, HeartofIron said:

 

'Basking in the failure of others'.......

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!! 

 

So you didn't bask in Englands failure in the Euros then??! 

Touché!!

[VALDOS']

3 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

Robertson makes me twitch with the way he just won’t use his right foot.  

If we start to look at Andy Robertson for problems, then we are in serious trouble and would be as well giving up 

[Harry Potter]

just watched on sportscene, clueless defending at their 2nd goal, as for JMs miss🙁. 

[julienbrellier]

5 hours ago, colinmaroon said:

 

Ditto!  Before you start pointing the finger have a look in the mirror and stop being a brat.

 

To describe my sympathy for what is happening in Ukraine as "feeling cuddly" is crass, insulting and pathetic.

 

You just carry on sitting safe behind your device while real people, men, women and children, are blown to bits, tortured, raped, murdered and shot and have a good laugh at it.

 

What a fantastic "person" you are!!!

 

 

Presume you're on the front line fighting then are you? 

[Cruyff]

53 minutes ago, VALDOS' said:

If we start to look at Andy Robertson for problems, then we are in serious trouble and would be as well giving up 

Yep, probably the best LB around, Tierney isn’t far behind. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

Saw the front pages of papers while out shopping. Almost all of them are congratulating Ukraine, whilst forgetting exactly who they beat.

Like the supporters at ground, too busy crawling to Ukraine instead of getting behind Scotland. The atmosphere should have been hostile to away team, instead of which the supporters booed Scotland while applauding Ukraine.

A mad night which will haunt us for years.

[Tazio]

So which genius at the BBC thought “which player should we get in to give a considered opinion and be someone who is a reputable character?” Yep, let’s get the guy who has a massive collection of cards and was recently charged with assaulting a woman. 

[Smoked-Glass]

Ian crocker needs banned

[Francis Albert]

7 hours ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

The Scotsman player rating has Gordon on 6 ( the highest score ). Big Craig was the best player by far and far better than 6 as he could do nothing at the goals scored. 

The only ratings I have seen in the London papers were in the Mail which gave Gordon an 8. Robertson 6.5 and the rest 5s and 6s.

Hickey a 6.

Seems more realistic but the Scotsman football desk is a strange place.

 

 

 

 

 

[joondalupjambo]

Anyone eslse thinking Gordon will announce his retirement from International football?   He will be 42, or just shy of it at the next Euro's and he will be full pelt with Hearts next season with league, cup and Euro football so does he need to continue?  I think it would benefit us if he did.

 

Apologies if this has been mentioned earlier in the thread.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

11 minutes ago, joondalupjambo said:

Anyone eslse thinking Gordon will announce his retirement from International football?   He will be 42, or just shy of it at the next Euro's and he will be full pelt with Hearts next season with league, cup and Euro football so does he need to continue?  I think it would benefit us if he did.

 

Apologies if this has been mentioned earlier in the thread.

It has been mentioned, but I personally don’t think so. He’s just probably very disappointed that he will now likely never play at a World Cup. But I think he will continue to answer the call if called upon. And at present he is the best keeper in Scotland. 

[DesertDawg]

No reason why he can't make the North America World Cup with the benefit of modern dietary and sports medicine facilities as long as he stays clear of a serious injury.  Goalkeepers benefit from experience more than outfield players do, so much will depend upon Craig's own motivation and he sure doesn't look like he isn't motivated to me.

[Mikey1874]

 

[LochcarronJambo]

10 hours ago, upgotheheads said:

I thought Hickey had a good game on a bad night for most of the rest of the team.

Is that a joke?

[LochcarronJambo]

5 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Saw the front pages of papers while out shopping. Almost all of them are congratulating Ukraine, whilst forgetting exactly who they beat.

Like the supporters at ground, too busy crawling to Ukraine instead of getting behind Scotland. The atmosphere should have been hostile to away team, instead of which the supporters booed Scotland while applauding Ukraine.

A mad night which will haunt us for years.

Sorry but i was there, the Scotland fans were outstanding again, it was a brilliant atmosphere until the players let us down & the manager, excepting Craig Gordon 

[LochcarronJambo]

6 hours ago, jonesy said:

I did. Fecking hilarious. And totally predictable.  
 

Would rather the English were laughing their cocks off than any patronising commiserations. It’s football, not a hippy commune FFS. Makes it all the easier to take great joy in whatever way England hibsit again at the WC.

This is totally spot on

[LochcarronJambo]

8 minutes ago, LochcarronJambo said:

Is that a joke?

Massive disappointment last night, Clarke has to take blame with ridiculous tactics & positions some players were given, what on earth he was doing putting Hickey wide right was bizarre & unfortunately he had a ‘mare too.    Cooper or & Handley instead of Souttar ffs…. Dykes and Adams both on pitch & we then resorted to long ball for long periods….tbh only Gordon got pass marks, it seemed we were (the team) spooked, astonishingly poor effort from Clarke & team…. & criticism of the Scotland fans are obviously from people who were not there-the atmosphere was brilliant at kick off & the Scotland fans were very partisan, there was no sympathy for Ukraine in the football context -there was nobody with the Souness mentality - a complete twat of a human being

[Malinga the Swinga]

5 minutes ago, LochcarronJambo said:

Massive disappointment last night, Clarke has to take blame with ridiculous tactics & positions some players were given, what on earth he was doing putting Hickey wide right was bizarre & unfortunately he had a ‘mare too.    Cooper or & Handley instead of Souttar ffs…. Dykes and Adams both on pitch & we then resorted to long ball for long periods….tbh only Gordon got pass marks, it seemed we were (the team) spooked, astonishingly poor effort from Clarke & team…. & criticism of the Scotland fans are obviously from people who were not there-the atmosphere was brilliant at kick off & the Scotland fans were very partisan, there was no sympathy for Ukraine in the football context -there was nobody with the Souness mentality - a complete twat of a human being

Fair enough if you were there. On TV, there were large periods where Scottish fans could be heard booing their team.

Can't have helped their confidence.

[Fozzyonthefence]

41 minutes ago, LochcarronJambo said:

Massive disappointment last night, Clarke has to take blame with ridiculous tactics & positions some players were given, what on earth he was doing putting Hickey wide right was bizarre & unfortunately he had a ‘mare too.    Cooper or & Handley instead of Souttar ffs…. Dykes and Adams both on pitch & we then resorted to long ball for long periods….tbh only Gordon got pass marks, it seemed we were (the team) spooked, astonishingly poor effort from Clarke & team…. & criticism of the Scotland fans are obviously from people who were not there-the atmosphere was brilliant at kick off & the Scotland fans were very partisan, there was no sympathy for Ukraine in the football context -there was nobody with the Souness mentality - a complete twat of a human being

Not sure what your issue with playing Hickey at RWB is?  If he’s good enough to play there v AC Milan or Juventus surely he’s a better option than a bang average Motherwell player?  Who else would you have played there?

 

Agree with most of the rest of your post though. There was definitely a fair bit booing though, think it was just after the 2nd goal when we nearly lost another one as well as at halftime. 

[OldGorgie]

41 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Fair enough if you were there. On TV, there were large periods where Scottish fans could be heard booing their team.

Can't have helped their confidence.

Agree but we have a good few who do the same when we play at home.  

[colinmaroon]

12 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

At no point did I laugh about what is happening on Ukraine. Won't find one post from me saying that anywhere, but you make it up if it makes you feel good about yourself, which is after all what you want. I just separated a football game from war. If you believe they're connected, then bully for you. If you believe Ukraine humiliating Scotland at football helps them in war against Russia, then bully for you.

Personally, I wanted Scotland to win and am gutted they lost. I also believe it will have zero impact on what is happening in Ukraine.

 

A Waffle of a response.

 

Your comments to me were the point of my response and you really have to stop revealing your own inadequacies in what you erroneously accuse others of.

 

You obviously have a very short attention span or your "cuddly" comments are just an example of your innate gift for insulting people.

 

[colinmaroon]

9 hours ago, julienbrellier said:

 

Presume you're on the front line fighting then are you? 

 

No, but as you are yet another supercilious smart arse, I'll drop a drone on you.

 

Don't worry, you won't hear a thing.  "Sense" is not one of your gifts.