Celtic to be served court summons

[Sir PH]

7 hours ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

It’s nothing to do with who they hired their defence would be they didn’t know but no matter the guardian paper already stated that their insurance would pay

Of course they knew. They even re-hired Jim Torbett despite him being kicked out for abusing kids. They also continued to deal with his Trophy Centre company, giving him a £250k per year contract. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

4 hours ago, Section Q said:

The BBC report refers to the legal action as "American style class action". It mentions this more than once, as if it's not the British thing do do. At least that's my take on it. 

WASPI/Post Office are only two of several class actions presently ongoing.

 

I believe there is also a Class Action Lawsuit in the pipeline by Edinburgh University Students against the University.

[Section Q]

5 hours ago, RobNox said:

 

Insurance is unlikely to cover criminal activity, especially child abuse, unless it was asked for, which would be unusual. Civil cases are how ever is a grey area. Here's an extract from an internet article.

""No insurer will cover a Criminal conviction. But insurance is available for Civil Matters brought against your organisation where there is an allegation of negligence which resulted in a criminal matter occurring under your watch and/or a failure to act appropriately when an incident occurred"".

 

 

[Mikey1874]

Interesting point re new claims. I don't think Celtic will accept liability. 

Edited April 9 by Mikey1874

[buzzbomb1958]

At the end of the day they will not pay out of their pocket much to the annoyance of The Rangers International Co support and their mini followers on here it’s been their comfort blanket for years that this action would do what the taxman did to the extinct Rangers . These victims deserve to be compensated for their dreadful abuse but other clubs have to take note , seemingly another class action against Hibs , Dundee united and Rangers in the pipeline so this will be an ongoing story 

[Mikey1874]

6 hours ago, Section Q said:

The BBC report refers to the legal action as "American style class action". It mentions this more than once, as if it's not the British thing do do. At least that's my take on it. 

WASPI/Post Office are only two of several class actions presently ongoing.

 

New law came in here in 2020

 

https://cms-lawnow.com/en/ealerts/2020/06/scottish-class-action-procedure-to-come-into-force-on-31-july-2020

[jimbojambo]

It's a horrible thought of these children with dreams of playing for the team they support being abused with impunity over the decades by a group of paedophiles. I appreciate it went on in the Scouts, BBs, schools, churches and care homes but slowly they are all being held to account. No amount of money can compensate for their loss of innocence and I'm glad Celtic seem to have stopped the denials and are facing up to their involvement. 

[JDK2020]

11 hours ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

It’s nothing to do with who they hired their defence would be they didn’t know but no matter the guardian paper already stated that their insurance would pay

 

They didn't know? They re-hired two of their convicted paedophile coaches. And Lou Macari and Liam Brady are only two of their ex-managers who wrote about the abuse in their biographies.

[Sir PH]

9 minutes ago, JDK2020 said:

 

They didn't know? They re-hired two of their convicted paedophile coaches. And Lou Macari and Liam Brady are only two of their ex-managers who wrote about the abuse in their biographies.

There's not an insurance company in the land would go near them after multiple convictions and the re-hiring of paedophile coaches. Celtic will have to stump up from their own pocket, and if they didn't, why have they fought it for so long? This could have and should have been dealt with years ago.

[buzzbomb1958]

6 hours ago, Sir PH said:

Of course they knew. They even re-hired Jim Torbett despite him being kicked out for abusing kids. They also continued to deal with his Trophy Centre company, giving him a £250k per year contract. 

I don’t need to educate myself everyone knew what went on , this was covered up in the 70s the governing bodies turned a blind eye and now it has come back to bite them on the bum, it’s funny how when other teams are mentioned you come up with 20 pages of evidence against Celtic, this went on at other clubs and one in particular who sing songs and score points on the subject are culpable as well , it’s not a one club thing it’s rife and has been going on for decades , Celtic are having their time in court and I hope to god these other clubs answer for it too , also if you are going to argue see the all sides it’s not one club as  you will find out when other clubs have to face their judgement day

[Sir PH]

3 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

I don’t need to educate myself everyone knew what went on , this was covered up in the 70s the governing bodies turned a blind eye and now it has come back to bite them on the bum, it’s funny how when other teams are mentioned you come up with 20 pages of evidence against Celtic, this went on at other clubs and one in particular who sing songs and score points on the subject are culpable as well , it’s not a one club thing it’s rife and has been going on for decades , Celtic are having their time in court and I hope to god these other clubs answer for it too , also if you are going to argue see the all sides it’s not one club as  you will find out when other clubs have to face their judgement day

The thread is discussing Celtic, and that's who I posted about. Not another club in the land has had the scale of abuse and the amount of paedophile coaches that they've had, it's literally unprecedented. 

 

You keep banging on about other clubs (for some strange reason) when none of them have a class action against them or anything like it. I'm sure when/if they start to appear in court, it will get discussed on here too. 

 

And I think you very much do need to read up on what went on at Celtic and educate yourself. 

[Mikey1874]

9 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

I don’t need to educate myself everyone knew what went on , this was covered up in the 70s the governing bodies turned a blind eye and now it has come back to bite them on the bum, it’s funny how when other teams are mentioned you come up with 20 pages of evidence against Celtic, this went on at other clubs and one in particular who sing songs and score points on the subject are culpable as well , it’s not a one club thing it’s rife and has been going on for decades , Celtic are having their time in court and I hope to god these other clubs answer for it too , also if you are going to argue see the all sides it’s not one club as  you will find out when other clubs have to face their judgement day

 

Celtic denied responsibility for over 10 years. Putting everyone through more hardships and stress. 

 

You seem to want to downplay what happened at Celtic because things happened elsewhere. That's not how the system of justice works here. 

Edited April 9 by Mikey1874

[Homme]

9 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

I don’t need to educate myself everyone knew what went on , this was covered up in the 70s the governing bodies turned a blind eye and now it has come back to bite them on the bum, it’s funny how when other teams are mentioned you come up with 20 pages of evidence against Celtic, this went on at other clubs and one in particular who sing songs and score points on the subject are culpable as well , it’s not a one club thing it’s rife and has been going on for decades , Celtic are having their time in court and I hope to god these other clubs answer for it too , also if you are going to argue see the all sides it’s not one club as  you will find out when other clubs have to face their judgement day

 

There is a difference between simply employing paedophiles and enabling them.

[buzzbomb1958]

6 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

The thread is discussing Celtic, and that's who I posted about. Not another club in the land has had the scale of abuse and the amount of paedophile coaches that they've had, it's literally unprecedented. 

 

You keep banging on about other clubs (for some strange reason) when none of them have a class action against them or anything like it. I'm sure when/if they start to appear in court, it will get discussed on here too. 

 

And I think you very much do need to read up on what went on at Celtic and educate yourself. 

I’ve read up what went on as most people have, the thread was discussing Septic and people hoping they will be having to pay out their coffers , a leading lawyer in corporate law wrote in the Gaurdian they would be covered by their liability insurance, now I don’t think a leading lawyer would be able to write an article stating facts if it wasn’t true , so I will believe someone who actually knows about corporate law rather than folks who are hoping it’s not true ,

[Sir PH]

Just now, buzzbomb1958 said:

I’ve read up what went on as most people have, the thread was discussing Septic and people hoping they will be having to pay out their coffers , a leading lawyer in corporate law wrote in the Gaurdian they would be covered by their liability insurance, now I don’t think a leading lawyer would be able to write an article stating facts if it wasn’t true , so I will believe someone who actually knows about corporate law rather than folks who are hoping it’s not true ,

What insurance company would happily insure Celtic, knowing what's went on there and that it would potentially cost them millions? 

 

Also, if Celtic Boys Club were a separate entity from Celtic Football Club (as has been Celtic's stance since day one) why on earth would they need insurance against this type of thing in the first place? 

[bawheed]

2 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

What insurance company would happily insure Celtic, knowing what's went on there and that it would potentially cost them millions? 

 

Also, if Celtic Boys Club were a separate entity from Celtic Football Club (as has been Celtic's stance since day one) why on earth would they need insurance against this type of thing in the first place? 

 

News today indicates that Ceptic want to pay off the class action against them.

Will cost them millions no wonder Brenda not getting cash for new players.

Can only hope Thomson’s don’t settle and it goes to court.

They would be shown up in the media all over the world.

[buzzbomb1958]

6 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

What insurance company would happily insure Celtic, knowing what's went on there and that it would potentially cost them millions? 

 

Also, if Celtic Boys Club were a separate entity from Celtic Football Club (as has been Celtic's stance since day one) why on earth would they need insurance against this type of thing in the first place? 

They hav had public liability insurance since day one like any business dealing with the public have to by law I will refer you yet again to to corporate lawyer who wrote a substantuated article in the Gaurdian , I think I will believe him unless you have a corporate law degree and have over 30 yrs experience as he did at the time cheers

[Sir PH]

3 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

They hav had public liability insurance since day one like any business dealing with the public have to by law I will refer you yet again to to corporate lawyer who wrote a substantuated article in the Gaurdian , I think I will believe him unless you have a corporate law degree and have over 30 yrs experience as he did at the time cheers

That public liability insurance would need renewed. What insurance company would do that, given that the abuse has been going on since the 60s? And again, why would they even need such insurance if the Boys Club was nothing to do with them and they were an entirely separate entity? It would be like me insuring my next door neighbours car. Pointless and a waste of money.

 

 

[Kirky Jambo]

44 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

They hav had public liability insurance since day one like any business dealing with the public have to by law I will refer you yet again to to corporate lawyer who wrote a substantuated article in the Gaurdian , I think I will believe him unless you have a corporate law degree and have over 30 yrs experience as he did at the time cheers

Surely a lawyer writing in the guardian won’t have specific knowledge of Celtics contractual relationship with its insurers. It won’t be public record.

 

I don’t think it’s a question of law anyway. It will come down to the wording of the policy and whether there is a carve out for losses resulting from something pre-existing that the club knew about and didn’t disclose.

 

I also think public liability is probably a red herring, is this not employers liability (albeit might be under the same policy)

 

I don’t think you can rule out Celtic having to pay, which might also explain why they have been quite frugal in recent years

[buzzbomb1958]

41 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

That public liability insurance would need renewed. What insurance company would do that, given that the abuse has been going on since the 60s? And again, why would they even need such insurance if the Boys Club was nothing to do with them and they were an entirely separate entity? It would be like me insuring my next door neighbours car. Pointless and a waste of money.

 

 

You are clutching at straws every businees dealing with the public has to have it and its renewed every year go read the article in the guardian for clarification cos its like trying to explain quantum physics to you , you seem to be more worried about where the money for the compensation is coming from rather than the victims being compensated I know your dreams of septic being put out of businness have been dashed but maybe Sevco havent paid their insurance and may die for a second time 

[buzzbomb1958]

8 minutes ago, Kirky Jambo said:

Surely a lawyer writing in the guardian won’t have specific knowledge of Celtics contractual relationship with its insurers. It won’t be public record.

 

I don’t think it’s a question of law anyway. It will come down to the wording of the policy and whether there is a carve out for losses resulting from something pre-existing that the club knew about and didn’t disclose.

 

I also think public liability is probably a red herring, is this not employers liability (albeit might be under the same policy)

 

I don’t think you can rule out Celtic having to pay, which might also explain why they have been quite frugal in recent years

Its a civil case so the rules are tottaly different the victims will be paid by the public liability and Non Discloures will be put into place so no one apart from the lawyers and victims will know the end result

Edited April 9 by buzzbomb1958

[bean counter]

According to the Times Celtic are set to pay out millions. Their next couple of years of accounts will show how much.

 

I would bet that they will pay out on the basis of not admitting liability and ensure everyone who gets money signs a non disclosure agreement

[Kirky Jambo]

1 minute ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

Its a civil case so the rules are tottaly different the victims will be paid by the public liability and Non Discloures will be put into place so no one apart from the lawyers and victims will know the end result

Yeah but I think the question is whether or not Celtic are insured, which I would have thought comes down to their private arrangements with their insurers.

 

To my mind the fact that Celtic knew about the abuse must give the insurer some kind of get out, or alternatively liability would be expressly excluded for a pre-existing issue disclosed to the insurers. 
 

If some insurer has decided to give them insurance that actually covers the eventuality that they would be sued for knowingly employing known abusers then that feels like a massive error by the insurer.

 

needless to say it will probably be more nuanced and complex than this…

[Sooks]

The stockpiling of cash makes me think this is not covered by their insurance 

[superjack]

8 minutes ago, bean counter said:

According to the Times Celtic are set to pay out millions. Their next couple of years of accounts will show how much.

 

I would bet that they will pay out on the basis of not admitting liability and ensure everyone who gets money signs a non disclosure agreement

Will all of the victims agree to an NDA though? Some of them might want to take it to court so everything is aired in public.

[Sir PH]

13 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

You are clutching at straws every businees dealing with the public has to have it and its renewed every year go read the article in the guardian for clarification cos its like trying to explain quantum physics to you , you seem to be more worried about where the money for the compensation is coming from rather than the victims being compensated I know your dreams of septic being put out of businness have been dashed but maybe Sevco havent paid their insurance and may die for a second time 

And as usual you go off on a tangent about "Sevco". If there's anybody clutching at straws, it's you. I'll ask again (hoping for an answer, eventually) why would Celtic need insurance for a boys club that was a "separate entity" and nothing to do with Celtic FC? 

[buzzbomb1958]

1 minute ago, Sir PH said:

And as usual you go off on a tangent about "Sevco". If there's anybody clutching at straws, it's you. I'll ask again (hoping for an answer, eventually) why would Celtic need insurance for a boys club that was a "separate entity" and nothing to do with Celtic FC? 

The boys club weren’t taken to court Celtic were taken to court because they denied liability but the judge ruled that they were because the boys club came under the umbrella of the Celtic institution just like when The Rangers International Co sent their victims to the liquidator stating they were not the same club , then the judge ruled that they said they were the same club with the original titles and stadium etc , so he ruled against them saying you can’t have it both ways , so the new entity will have to pay

[OTT]

22 minutes ago, Sooks said:

The stockpiling of cash makes me think this is not covered by their insurance 

 

Sounds like it could be a big one too. 

 

The fact lives have been ruined hopefully means the vicitms are going to be getting a hefty pay out. I'm not saying this to twist the knife on Celtic. What happened was atrocious and utterly depressing, the fact they've had to fight tooth and nail to get this whilst facing obstacle after obstacle is just horrendous. 

 

The least the victims deserve is compensation which can give them a better future for them and their loved ones. 

[Sooks]

3 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Sounds like it could be a big one too. 

 

The fact lives have been ruined hopefully means the vicitms are going to be getting a hefty pay out. I'm not saying this to twist the knife on Celtic. What happened was atrocious and utterly depressing, the fact they've had to fight tooth and nail to get this whilst facing obstacle after obstacle is just horrendous. 

 

The least the victims deserve is compensation which can give them a better future for them and their loved ones. 

Of course . I know that is not what you are doing , twisting the knife , but everyone involved with Celtic who forced the victims to have to fight tooth and nail for decades deserves to have a knife twisted in to them . Adding insult to injury to the lives of the victims and their families ? Scumbags 

[Sir PH]

1 hour ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

The boys club weren’t taken to court Celtic were taken to court because they denied liability but the judge ruled that they were because the boys club came under the umbrella of the Celtic institution just like when The Rangers International Co sent their victims to the liquidator stating they were not the same club , then the judge ruled that they said they were the same club with the original titles and stadium etc , so he ruled against them saying you can’t have it both ways , so the new entity will have to pay

Honestly, why are you slavering about Sevco? Is the thread not discussing Celtic? And you still haven't answered why Celtic's insurance will pay out on abuse within their boys club, when there's not an insurance company on the planet would insure them, given their history on child sex abuse. 

 

Try and answer without mentioning your favourite subject.

[buzzbomb1958]

16 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

Honestly, why are you slavering about Sevco? Is the thread not discussing Celtic? And you still haven't answered why Celtic's insurance will pay out on abuse within their boys club, when there's not an insurance company on the planet would insure them, given their history on child sex abuse. 

 

Try and answer without mentioning your favourite subject.

You can’t hide your loyalties can you🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣Read the article in the guardian I’m not explain it to someone who hates their other club being slagged off for the same thing, the pain is oozing out every word you write when your other club are mentioned now go away

Edited April 9 by buzzbomb1958

[Sir PH]

4 minutes ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

You can’t hide your loyalties can you🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣Read the article in the guardian I’m not explain it to someone who hates their other club being slagged off for the same thing, the pain is oozing out every word you write when your other club are mentioned now go away

I've read many articles about it, one from the Guardian isn't going to change anything. 

[buzzbomb1958]

1 minute ago, Sir PH said:

I've read many articles about it, one from the Guardian isn't going to change anything. 

When newspapers carry articles written by anyone from Journalists to lawyers to police or who ever it is all fact checked 2 or 3 times before being run past their in house lawyers to make sure very word is fact , A  corporate lawyer with 30 yrs experience in all aspects of business laws and liabilities was asked who indeed woul pay if Celtic lost “The Big Case” and he said categorically their public liability insurance would pay because it is a civil case not a criminal case , if you don’t believe that then read it yourself, the only thing that hurts Celtic is their reputation which is ****ed anyway and their future insurance premiums which will be eye watering end of

[Sir PH]

1 minute ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

When newspapers carry articles written by anyone from Journalists to lawyers to police or who ever it is all fact checked 2 or 3 times before being run past their in house lawyers to make sure very word is fact , A  corporate lawyer with 30 yrs experience in all aspects of business laws and liabilities was asked who indeed woul pay if Celtic lost “The Big Case” and he said categorically their public liability insurance would pay because it is a civil case not a criminal case , if you don’t believe that then read it yourself, the only thing that hurts Celtic is their reputation which is ****ed anyway and their future insurance premiums which will be eye watering end of

Well let's wait and see if he's correct. There's plenty of others with a different opinion on who will pay. 

[Ron Burgundy]

Hope the real victims get the justice they deserve and the VicTims go bust with the pay-out.

[John Findlay]

Celtic have fought this from day one.

They will do their utmost for this not to see a courtroom, as they do not want the evidence against them to become public, and for everyone to know just how complicit as a club they were in this whole sad sordid ordeal.

They have now been told how much in cold cash this is going to cost them.

I do not doubt they have been flabbergasted by the amount handed to them by the law firm on behalf of the victims.

 

This four months I am sure will be for haggling between the victims legal team and Celtic's.

I sincerely hope the victims standfast and refuse to budge.

 

Personally, I would like to see this go to court, so that we get a very good idea, of how tawdry, and complicit Celtic were in all this.

[RustyRightPeg]

A lot of modern policies have historical abuse exclusions written in.

 

They'll be paying out their own pockets. 

 

[Mikey1874]

I'd need to research it where I saw this discussed previously.

 

Pretty sure Celtic will be paying for this themselves. One of the main reasons they fought it so hard for years when it was clearly in their interests to accept liability and settle, and get credit for doing it. 

[BlueRiver]

An out of court settlement may not be covered by insurance considering you'd need an admission of liability. 

 

The civil case isn't awarding damages here. This is Celtic looking to settle out of court so it'll depend on the terms of any settlement. 

[BlueRiver]

39 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

I've read many articles about it, one from the Guardian isn't going to change anything. 

 

Ever find it weird how you when you say anything positive about Rangers you're a mini-hun but there's the same handful of posters taking bullets for Celtic across threads drawing no comment? 

 

 

[Jim Panzee]

What is very sad in all of this, is that regardless of who was in charge of what, Celtic football club could’ve used it’s significant resources to fund an independent enquiry into the wrongdoings of what happened.

 

peoples damaged lives are worth more than an organisations reputation.

[Sir PH]

10 minutes ago, BlueRiver said:

 

Ever find it weird how you when you say anything positive about Rangers you're a mini-hun but there's the same handful of posters taking bullets for Celtic across threads drawing no comment? 

 

 

Very much so.

[Hmfc1965]

5 hours ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

When newspapers carry articles written by anyone from Journalists to lawyers to police or who ever it is all fact checked 2 or 3 times before being run past their in house lawyers to make sure very word is fact , A  corporate lawyer with 30 yrs experience in all aspects of business laws and liabilities was asked who indeed woul pay if Celtic lost “The Big Case” and he said categorically their public liability insurance would pay because it is a civil case not a criminal case , if you don’t believe that then read it yourself, the only thing that hurts Celtic is their reputation which is ****ed anyway and their future insurance premiums which will be eye watering end of

Do you have a link to the article?

I can't find anything that comes close to what you say.

[Hmfc1965]

5 hours ago, BlueRiver said:

An out of court settlement may not be covered by insurance considering you'd need an admission of liability. 

 

The civil case isn't awarding damages here. This is Celtic looking to settle out of court so it'll depend on the terms of any settlement. 

If it is covered by insurance the insurers would be involved in any settlement.

[BlueRiver]

1 hour ago, Hmfc1965 said:

If it is covered by insurance the insurers would be involved in any settlement.

 

That's a big if and would hinge on the terms of the agreement. 

 

It is possible of course I just can't see many insurers offering coverage for historic sexual abuse and being very blasé about when they would pay out on them into the bargain. 

Edited April 9 by BlueRiver

[Mikey1874]

This guy sums it up. But also shows the problem Celtic have in thinking it goes away with a settlement that is at least 10 years too late.

 

 

[JimmyCant]

16 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I believe there is also a Class Action Lawsuit in the pipeline by Edinburgh University Students against the University.

Edinburgh Academy is it not ?

[JimmyCant]

15 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

This guy sums it up. But also shows the problem Celtic have in thinking it goes away with a settlement that is at least 10 years too late.

 

 

No way will they apologise. It’ll be a no fault settlement. They’re settling because they would have lost. Not because they feel bad about it.

[JimmyCant]

10 hours ago, bean counter said:

According to the Times Celtic are set to pay out millions. Their next couple of years of accounts will show how much.

 

I would bet that they will pay out on the basis of not admitting liability and ensure everyone who gets money signs a non disclosure agreement

I think they’ll have difficulty getting an entire class group to sign an nda. Some of whom are not in it for the money but to expose what went on (which they’ve already done to an extent) Any settlement without an admission and an apology is going to be a very hard sell or a very expensive one

[Sir PH]

6 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

I think they’ll have difficulty getting an entire class group to sign an nda. Some of whom are not in it for the money but to expose what went on (which they’ve already done to an extent) Any settlement without an admission and an apology is going to be a very hard sell or a very expensive one

Gordon Woods (one of Jim Torbett's many victims at Celtic) has came out and said under no circumstances will he be signing a NDA. He wants the world to know exactly what went on at Celtic and what was allowed to happen at Celtic.