TYNECASTLE STADIUM UPGRADE POTENTIAL - UEFA category 4 granted ( updated/merged )

[stirlo]

54 minutes ago, chrystaf said:

And on the capacity issue, we were supposed to have extended the ground to seat 20,000.  But even on "sold out" matches, we have never matched 19,000 let alone 20,000.  I can't think that the seats taken off for segregation amount to 2,000ish.

 

I always said that there should have been a little bit more thought given to the redevelopment of the main stand. People will point out that the planning permission limited the capacity - but they could have built a bigger potential capacity to allow for loss of seats on the proviso that there would never be more than the 'authorised' capacity actually used. IIRC the 'official' capacity after completion of the main stand was 20,099, but we all know that the actual capacity now is probably around 19,400 - and we've struggled to get over 19,000 this season despite selling out most games.

 

As for those saying that any talk of expansion is pie in the sky, that there never has been and never will be the necessary demand - are these people actually Hearts fans? The club themselves have mentioned a season ticket waiting list of 3,000 and there are some suggestions it could be even more than that.  Even going back quite a few years we sold well in excess of 20,000 tickets for both league games and European games at Murrayfield. I personally know of people who are relatively new to Edinburgh who have tried to purchase tickets for games this season but have been unable to do so (admittedly mainly games against the Old Firm, which are effectively 'locked down' and Hibs). Those are people who could potentially become at least semi-regular attendees.

 

We know that James Anderson has talked about the club being ambitious - I would be amazed if him and others on the board have not at the very least had some preliminary discussions about where we go next in terms of increasing capacity whether that be at Tynecastle or elsewhere. I'm also pretty sure this will be raised as an issue at this year's AGM.

 

 

 

  

[graygo]

49 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Just making sure 😊

 

The point stands though, our ground is just about big enough for us just now. If the people who have already paid for those seats and couldn't go for whatever reason stuck them on the exchange and folk who wanted a ticket but couldn't get one then bought from the exchange most of the issues would be resolved.

I know the club are keen to promote the exchange so hopefully it becomes used more going forward.

 

ps. I'd love a bigger stadium tbh, couldn't really care where it is either.

Edited May 21, 2023 by graygo

[AlphonseCapone]

Not required. 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

6 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Area about 370 seats between home and away fans unused could be better managed. 

Absolutely this. Far too many seats wasted with excessive/outdated segregation option. In this day and age there must be a better solution.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

We don't own the community pitch and don't think that the distillery currently want to sell it.  I agree that the only 'feasible' expansion that I can see is on that land but it won't be easy to deliver or even justify. 

The North British Distillery is joint owned by Diageo, a massive world wide company, you wonder if they would give us the community pitch in exchange for naming rights for a new Wheatfield stand?

[henryheart]

3 hours ago, Percival King said:

It's not a fact, it's an opinion, which you're obviously entitled to. For me, Tynecastle is fit for purpose and hasn't demonstrated sufficiently, if at all, that it is so small that we need to spend a massive amount of money, which we don’t have, on a new stadium. We have what many fans, including non-Hearts fans, believe is the best, most atmospheric in Scotland. We had a huge game yesterday which I don't think anyone was locked out of i.e. Anyone who wanted to go could do so. Reading posts on Kickback, seems to me there's a split between fans who think we should speculate to get to the next level and those who believe our history tells us that we're unlikely to be regularly competing for the title without almost going bust. I'm in the latter camp, but that's just my opinion.

 

Exactly. There may be a waiting list of 5,000, but how many of those would actually take up the offer is available? Since the ticket exchange has opened there have always been seats available, in other words any non season ticket holder who has wanted to attend a match has always been able to buy a ticket.

 

The club studies the fan base very closely and recognises that while most fans drift in and out of attending matches as their personal circumstances change. I think the figure I am quoting is correct, with the club recognising that it now has a hardcore element of around 8,0000 that will attend no matter what. Some may think this is low, but there are some of us who have been at Tynecastle with home attendances as low as 2,000 Even when we were second in 1991-2, finishing only 9 point behind Rangers and above Celtic we struggled to get 10,000 and our last home attendance was 7,348, so the hardcore fan base has risen. Crowd figures always have fluctuated and it just so happens that we are at a peak just now.   

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

Whilst we’re at it can we get the tunnel to match up with the half way line?

[OTT]

I think we need a bigger stadium. 25k would be ace and serve our needs without creating swathes of empty seats. I do think when it comes time to increase the Wheatfield capacity, we need to go all out. I.e maximise the capacity to its fullest potential. Expansion is costly and we don't want to be in a similar situation down the line when we're kicking ourselves its short of what we need. 

[OTT]

Just now, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Whilst we’re at it can we get the tunnel to match up with the half way line?

 

 This annoys me so much too!!!!

[henryheart]

41 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

Exactly. There may be a waiting list of 5,000, but how many of those would actually take up the offer is available? Since the ticket exchange has opened there have always been seats available, in other words any non season ticket holder who has wanted to attend a match has always been able to buy a ticket.

 

The club studies the fan base very closely and recognises that most fans drift in and out of attending matches as their personal circumstances change. I think the figure I am quoting is correct, with the club recognising that it now has a hardcore element of around 8,000 that will attend no matter what. Some may think this is low, but there are some of us who have been at Tynecastle with home attendances as low as 2,000 Even when we were second in 1991-2, finishing only 9 point behind Rangers and above Celtic we struggled to get 10,000 and our last home attendance was 7,348, so the hardcore fan base has risen. Crowd figures always have fluctuated and it just so happens that we are at a peak just now.   

 

Edit to my post - we have a hardcore of 8000 fans, not 80000 before anyone points it out.

[davemclaren]

48 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Whilst we’re at it can we get the tunnel to match up with the half way line?

That was intentional as it replicated where the tunnel exited in the old stand. Too many fans with ocd. 😄

[stirlo]

3 hours ago, henryheart said:

 

Exactly. There may be a waiting list of 5,000, but how many of those would actually take up the offer is available? Since the ticket exchange has opened there have always been seats available, in other words any non season ticket holder who has wanted to attend a match has always been able to buy a ticket.

 

The club studies the fan base very closely and recognises that while most fans drift in and out of attending matches as their personal circumstances change. I think the figure I am quoting is correct, with the club recognising that it now has a hardcore element of around 8,0000 that will attend no matter what. Some may think this is low, but there are some of us who have been at Tynecastle with home attendances as low as 2,000 Even when we were second in 1991-2, finishing only 9 point behind Rangers and above Celtic we struggled to get 10,000 and our last home attendance was 7,348, so the hardcore fan base has risen. Crowd figures always have fluctuated and it just so happens that we are at a peak just now.   

 

I don't think the current situation is just a 'peak' though. You mention the days when we struggled to get 10,000 but you now have to go back many years for a time when our crowds were that low. The general trajectory has been upwards for many years, to a point where nowadays we rarely don't sell out games, even if there are some tickets still available on the ticket exchange.  

 

I also don't get this concept of a 'hardcore' of 8,000. We have 8,000 folk contributing to the Foundation but considerably more season ticket holders than that, most of whom will be renewing once again this year. In what way are these fans not part of the hardcore? 

[Thomaso]

4 hours ago, graygo said:

 

The point stands though, our ground is just about big enough for us just now. If the people who have already paid for those seats and couldn't go for whatever reason stuck them on the exchange and folk who wanted a ticket but couldn't get one then bought from the exchange most of the issues would be resolved.

I know the club are keen to promote the exchange so hopefully it becomes used more going forward.

 

ps. I'd love a bigger stadium tbh, couldn't really care where it is either.

Agree with you on the exchange - not the stadium - I love Tynecastle

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, stirlo said:

 

I don't think the current situation is just a 'peak' though. You mention the days when we struggled to get 10,000 but you now have to go back many years for a time when our crowds were that low. The general trajectory has been upwards for many years, to a point where nowadays we rarely don't sell out games, even if there are some tickets still available on the ticket exchange.  

 

I also don't get this concept of a 'hardcore' of 8,000. We have 8,000 folk contributing to the Foundation but considerably more season ticket holders than that, most of whom will be renewing once again this year. In what way are these fans not part of the hardcore? 

I’m a ST holder, shareholder and FoH contributor but don’t rate myself as “hardcore”. I leave that title who those who follow Hearts to every away game.

[stirlo]

1 minute ago, Thomaso said:

I’m a ST holder, shareholder and FoH contributor but don’t rate myself as “hardcore”. I leave that title who those who follow Hearts to every away game.

 

On that definition the hardcore is considerably less than 8,000 - but I think the term 'hardcore' in the context of the discussion on this thread is probably a bit irrelevant anyway. I think the question is what is our 'core home support'. It is clearly way over 8,000 as you have to go back literally decades since we last regularly had crowds of less than 10,000 for home league games.  

[Thomaso]

1 minute ago, stirlo said:

 

On that definition the hardcore is considerably less than 8,000 - but I think the term 'hardcore' in the context of the discussion on this thread is probably a bit irrelevant anyway. I think the question is what is our 'core home support'. It is clearly way over 8,000 as you have to go back literally decades since we last regularly had crowds of less than 10,000 for home league games.  

Agreed

[johnking123]

Our fan base has grown considerably over past couple of decades. Really could do with 25k stadium at the moment.  

[graygo]

2 hours ago, Thomaso said:

Agree with you on the exchange - not the stadium - I love Tynecastle

 

I worded that poorly, my preferred option would be to stay at Tynecastle but if we had to move I wouldn't be against it. 

[FarmerTweedy]

13 hours ago, Libertarian said:

Just short of 19,000 at Tynecastle yesterday. With a bigger capacity we could easily have had an attendance of between 25,000 to 30,000. Aberdeen could have brought 5,000 and there could easily have been another 5,000 Hearts supporters. This is all lost revenue for the club and Hearts have to begin seriously looking at how to expand the capacity. Any outlay would be an investment which would soon pay for itself.

Leaving aside the fact that I can't believe there isn't already a thread discussing this topic at length over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, the bit in bold is an extremely dubious claim, based on pie in the sky assumptions and/or completely wishful thinking. 

[FarmerTweedy]

13 hours ago, gregzy2k7 said:

Sometimes i wonder why they didnt add a second tier to the new main stand? If we want to remain at tynecastle, Could we not potentially build a new stand for Wheatfield and add a second tier on ? Surely that would increase capacity by around 5k ish? Probably bringing it up to the 25k mark?

The council wouldn't let us build it any bigger. 

[FarmerTweedy]

13 hours ago, Libertarian said:

2,500 on the season ticket waiting list = £750,000 + £1,250,000 in lost visiting support and walk ups = £2,000,000 per-season in lost revenue. Very approximate figures but the club needs to seriously consider ways of increasing the capacity in order to keep growing.

It's just as well you've thought of this inspired idea, because nobody at the club is likely to have thought of it. It's certainly not an idea that's ever been floated on jkb before! 

[Bongo 1874]

30k plus is what is needed this will secure our long-term future at Tynecastle.

 

This can be achieved by knocking down wheatfield and rebuilding it.

 

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Bongo 1874

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

5 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

The council wouldn't let us build it any bigger. 

We could turn the hotel into student flats, put in  some bollards, run a cycle lane round the pitch , dig potholes in the pitch throw in a few thousand traffic cones the clowncilors might just allow it 

[WheatfieldWarrior]

6 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

30k plus is what is needed this will secure our long-term future at Tynecastle.

 

This can be achieved by knocking down wheatfield and rebuilding it.

 

We definitely need to be around there to keep growing.  need 45k imo to make the league a regular 3 horse race.

[SwindonJambo]

5 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

30k plus is what is needed this will secure our long-term future at Tynecastle.

 

This can be achieved by knocking down wheatfield and rebuilding it.

 

 

That’ll be With a capacity of 16,000 then? Easy peasy. Let’s call in the bulldozers the day after the Hibs game and get on with it. Stuff the distillery, the ethanol tanks and the wishes of the residents of Wheatfield Street and Gorgie Road. If you’re willing to stump up £30m+ then we’re all set to go.

[Nobreath]

Until such time as we increase the capacity of Tynecastle, should we consider going down the Brentford route to improve numbers of bums on seats?

 

https://www.brentfordfc.com/en/news/article/new-brentford-season-ticket-policy-explained

[Perth to Paisley]

3 minutes ago, Nobreath said:

Until such time as we increase the capacity of Tynecastle, should we consider going down the Brentford route to improve numbers of bums on seats?

 

https://www.brentfordfc.com/en/news/article/new-brentford-season-ticket-policy-explained

Good idea - should be copied

[FarmerTweedy]

12 hours ago, Sooks said:

A move away from Gorgie would have seen a slowing in growth and the extra seats would have gone unfilled , unless the move was just down the road to say Sighthill

I've thought for years now that part of Carrickknowe golf course would be the ideal location if we were to move. The northernmost side of that land would allow us to build a sizeable stadium, allow space for future expansion if needed, plus space for coach parking and a decent amount of car parking too, with a new access road onto Corstorphine Road (possibly requiring the flattening of the Melville Bridge Club). Looking at the footprints of tynie and even Murrayfield on Google maps, we could fit all that in on less than half of the golf course, meaning a 9 hole course could be retained if there's demand for it, or maybe it could be rejigged to an 18 hole pitch'n'putt. Alternatively, the remaining ground could be converted to a park, maybe also some allotments, etc. Obviously, golfers who use the current course wouldn't be happy, but with three other 18 hole and two 9 hole council courses in Edinburgh, I think golfers would still be very well served for facilities.  It'd be a convenient location for the Balgreen tram stop, as well as buses on Corstorphine Road and not too far a walk from Gorgie Road either. 

 

The finances are a whole other story of course! 

[Ray Gin]

48 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

30k plus is what is needed this will secure our long-term future at Tynecastle.

 

This can be achieved by knocking down wheatfield and rebuilding it.

 

 

 

We aren't getting a 16k capacity stand built on that footprint.

[FarmerTweedy]

11 hours ago, Luckies1874 said:

Any Hearts fan who wanted a ticket for yesterday and “could not get one” is a total numpty. There were loads available and it would have taken them 2-3 minutes to purchase one. 

That's true for individuals. It's not quite the same story if a group of pals wanted to go to the game together, or a parent(s) wanted to take their kid(s) along.

[FarmerTweedy]

11 hours ago, Bungalow Bill said:

Wonder if hosting the Conference League final is on the clubs radar? Only thing stopping it might be our dugout situation. Should be equal side of the half way line. 

The club did say we're now at the top level of UEFA's stadium accreditation, so I think we'd technically be able to host it no problem. I do think, however, that UEFA have, up to now, underestimated how seriously clubs from the bigger nations, and their fans, would take the competition, and probably won't consider stadiums anywhere near our capacity again at any point in the foreseeable future. I reckon this year's final would sell out an 80k or 90k capacity stadium, and while that won't quite be the case every year, I'd be very surprised if it's awarded to a stadium with a capacity of less than about 35-40k any time soon, unless the level of bribery on offer is at an absolutely off the charts scale!

Edited May 22, 2023 by FarmerTweedy

[FarmerTweedy]

11 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

We could have a ground the size of Easter road, but the problem is when there is 19k there it looks half empty.

 

 

When there's 19k there it looks quite full. When they announce a 19k attendance, it looks half empty. Two rather different scenarios! 

[Bongo 1874]

1 hour ago, SwindonJambo said:

That’ll be With a capacity of 16,000 then? Easy peasy. Let’s call in the bulldozers the day after the Hibs game and get on with it. Stuff the distillery, the ethanol tanks and the wishes of the residents of Wheatfield Street and Gorgie Road. If you’re willing to stump up £30m+ then we’re all set to go.

Not easy but not impossible either.

 

[FarmerTweedy]

9 hours ago, Bauld said:

 

I consider it to be a fact because the clubs ambition is to grow.

 

We have a large waiting list and no wiggle room.

 

Imagine if we had a 30k stadium. Would it be full every home game right now? No it wouldn't.

 

Would if be full to capacity on derby days? Yes

 

Would of be full on a European night under the lights against a famous club like someone from the EPL? Yes

 

Would we be able to fill it during certain cup games? Yes. 

 

It isn't always just about every league game. We could generate some massive income from more season ticket sales and 6-8 big games per season where we pack it out.

 

On top of that. It gives us room to grow. In 15-20 years time Edinburgh population is probably going to be near double what it is now. That's a lot of potential for more fans and more money. 

 

If we want the future to match the ambition we can't just cling on to the past we love. We have to love the past and embrace the future.

Firstly, you considering something to be a fact is quite literally you expressing an opinion. Something is either a fact or it isn't. What someone considers something to be is opinion. 

 

Secondly, filling a 30k ground for any cup tie other than a derby would require giving a huge allocation to the visiting team. We rarely get remotely close to capacity for home cup ties just now unless it's against hibs, the mutton molesters or one of the arsecheeks, and against the arsecheeks it's only because they get the whole school end. There's always a bunch of folk saying they don't want to go because the kids will be traumatised or something! Maybe at some point in the future, but for now, you're talking fantasy stuff.

 

Thirdly, Edinburgh's population isn't going to be even remotely close to double what it is now in 15-20 years time. It'll probably be about 15-20% higher, maybe 25%. Growth in the wider Lothians area might be a little ahead of that. Talk of double, or anything remotely close to that, is utter nonsense. 

 

I do share your opinion (and opinion is what it is, not fact) to an extent, that our capacity is likely to hold us back a bit for at least the foreseeable future, but any possible solutions will be extremely expensive, and must be considered based on carefully considered future protections/assumptions, well thought out cost benefit analysis, etc, not ludicrous made up assertions about populations doubling, and pretending opinions are actually facts just because that's what you want them to be.

[FarmerTweedy]

7 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Whilst we’re at it can we get the tunnel to match up with the half way line?

No, we can't. 

[FarmerTweedy]

1 hour ago, Bongo 1874 said:

30k plus is what is needed this will secure our long-term future at Tynecastle.

 

This can be achieved by knocking down wheatfield and rebuilding it.

 

 

We don't need 30k just now, we won't any time soon, we might do quite some way into the future if all goes very well indeed, it can't be achieved by knocking down the Wheatfield and rebuilding it.

 

The sad thing is that by your usual standards, this isn't actually that big a pile of drivel! 

[Libertarian]

51 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

Firstly, you considering something to be a fact is quite literally you expressing an opinion. Something is either a fact or it isn't. What someone considers something to be is opinion. 

 

Secondly, filling a 30k ground for any cup tie other than a derby would require giving a huge allocation to the visiting team. We rarely get remotely close to capacity for home cup ties just now unless it's against hibs, the mutton molesters or one of the arsecheeks, and against the arsecheeks it's only because they get the whole school end. There's always a bunch of folk saying they don't want to go because the kids will be traumatised or something! Maybe at some point in the future, but for now, you're talking fantasy stuff.

 

Thirdly, Edinburgh's population isn't going to be even remotely close to double what it is now in 15-20 years time. It'll probably be about 15-20% higher, maybe 25%. Growth in the wider Lothians area might be a little ahead of that. Talk of double, or anything remotely close to that, is utter nonsense. 

 

I do share your opinion (and opinion is what it is, not fact) to an extent, that our capacity is likely to hold us back a bit for at least the foreseeable future, but any possible solutions will be extremely expensive, and must be considered based on carefully considered future protections/assumptions, well thought out cost benefit analysis, etc, not ludicrous made up assertions about populations doubling, and pretending opinions are actually facts just because that's what you want them to be.

You are correct to say that the population of Edinburgh will not double, however the city is predicted to grow substantially over the coming two decades. Indeed Edinburgh will soon be Scotland's largest city. East Lothian and Midlothian are the two fastest growing local authorities in terms of population. You may find the following interesting https://www.pbctoday.co.uk/news/planning-construction-news/scotlands-biggest-city/47339/

[Thumperbeni]

3 hours ago, WheatfieldWarrior said:

 

We definitely need to be around there to keep growing.  need 45k imo to make the league a regular 3 horse race.

You need to stay of the drugs pal, the league will never be a 3 horse race no matter how much we would love to be apart of it !

[Bungalow Bill]

7 hours ago, FarmerTweedy said:

The club did say we're now at the top level of UEFA's stadium accreditation, so I think we'd technically be able to host it no problem. I do think, however, that UEFA have, up to now, underestimated how seriously clubs from the bigger nations, and their fans, would take the competition, and probably won't consider stadiums anywhere near our capacity again at any point in the foreseeable future. I reckon this year's final would sell out an 80k or 90k capacity stadium, and while that won't quite be the case every year, I'd be very surprised if it's awarded to a stadium with a capacity of less than about 35-40k any time soon, unless the level of bribery on offer is at an absolutely off the charts scale!

It makes no sense to hold the conference league final in stadiums the size of ours. However, I believe part of the philosophy of the conference league is to host the finals in locations/stadiums where they wouldn’t have normally been able to host a European final. 
 

What’s the reason our tunnel isn’t central to the pitch and the dugouts not being equal from the center line? As I said before I think this would be a factor in us not getting it anyway. 

[henryheart]

11 hours ago, stirlo said:

 

I don't think the current situation is just a 'peak' though. You mention the days when we struggled to get 10,000 but you now have to go back many years for a time when our crowds were that low. The general trajectory has been upwards for many years, to a point where nowadays we rarely don't sell out games, even if there are some tickets still available on the ticket exchange.  

 

I also don't get this concept of a 'hardcore' of 8,000. We have 8,000 folk contributing to the Foundation but considerably more season ticket holders than that, most of whom will be renewing once again this year. In what way are these fans not part of the hardcore? 

 

If there are tickets not sold on the ticket exchange, this means that everyone who wants to go to the game can do.

 

I use the term 'hardcore' in the context of a business model for long term planning. There are a large number of season ticket holders who do not go to all games and there are many who do not go to cup games. Having a season ticket is more a convenience for some as the cup crowds show and these supporters are not constants; they often drift in and out of active support and going to the game is not a must do. The people around me over the years have changed and this floating support has to be recognised for long term planning. Yes, in recent years those who have not renewed their season tickets have been replaced by others, but if there is a prolonged period of failure or football loses its appeal then the numbers waiting to fill the gap will reduce and could disappear. In the same way that the club budgets for on field failure (getting knocked out of cup competitions in the first round), the club has to have a plan for consequence of lower attendances and it will have a baseline crowd figure, the 'hardcore' element as I describe them. To use the number of Foundation contributors as a basis for calculating the 'hardcore' support is wrong as there are a good number of FOH members who never or very rarely go to matches. 

 

I get the concept of speculate to accumulate, but this has led to so many failures in football and there is absolutely no evidence that a bigger stadium is either needed or would bring success.   

[stirlo]

4 hours ago, henryheart said:

 

If there are tickets not sold on the ticket exchange, this means that everyone who wants to go to the game can do.

 

I use the term 'hardcore' in the context of a business model for long term planning. There are a large number of season ticket holders who do not go to all games and there are many who do not go to cup games. Having a season ticket is more a convenience for some as the cup crowds show and these supporters are not constants; they often drift in and out of active support and going to the game is not a must do. The people around me over the years have changed and this floating support has to be recognised for long term planning. Yes, in recent years those who have not renewed their season tickets have been replaced by others, but if there is a prolonged period of failure or football loses its appeal then the numbers waiting to fill the gap will reduce and could disappear. In the same way that the club budgets for on field failure (getting knocked out of cup competitions in the first round), the club has to have a plan for consequence of lower attendances and it will have a baseline crowd figure, the 'hardcore' element as I describe them. To use the number of Foundation contributors as a basis for calculating the 'hardcore' support is wrong as there are a good number of FOH members who never or very rarely go to matches. 

 

I get the concept of speculate to accumulate, but this has led to so many failures in football and there is absolutely no evidence that a bigger stadium is either needed or would bring success.   

 

I take the point that there is a certain degree of turnover in terms of regular attendees but I think the key point is that you have to go back quite a few years before we weren't selling at least 15,000 tickets for most games and we are now at a point where we are selling out week in week out, often selling additional tickets on the ticket exchange - and we have a season ticket waiting list of upwards of 3,000.

 

I think the point about cup games is a bit irrelevant, because just about every team in the UK - perhaps with the exception of the top 7 or 8 teams in England - do not sell nearly as many tickets for the average cup tie as they do for league games. 

 

I absolutely agree that one has to be very careful in terms of adopting a 'speculate to accumulate' policy - you are correct that this has led to disasters at various clubs, including our own. But I also genuinely worry that if we do not give some serious thought to increasing capacity we are actually missing out on an opportunity to grow our support. I'm not suggesting the club spends millions greatly increasing capacity in the blind hope that thousands more start attending. All I'm saying is the club need to start exploring what the next step is in terms of capacity. 

[Costanza]

12 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

We aren't getting a 16k capacity stand built on that footprint.

Get Daniel Stendel in as Project Manager and then anything is possible.

[Jambo Buckets]

I think the only realistic way it would happen is if we could get funding to host a major tournament. Hampden is getting funded for an upgrade for the Euro 2028 bid. 

 

Scotland, Ireland and sometimes Wales submitted a few joint bids to host the Euros in the past. A bid like that would need a few stadium expansions and Tynecastle would be a good candidate as one that would actually be beneficial long term. 

 

There is no stadium in Scotland with a capacity between 20 and 50 thousand so it would be something that would always see use. 

[henryheart]

45 minutes ago, stirlo said:

 

I take the point that there is a certain degree of turnover in terms of regular attendees but I think the key point is that you have to go back quite a few years before we weren't selling at least 15,000 tickets for most games and we are now at a point where we are selling out week in week out, often selling additional tickets on the ticket exchange - and we have a season ticket waiting list of upwards of 3,000.

 

I think the point about cup games is a bit irrelevant, because just about every team in the UK - perhaps with the exception of the top 7 or 8 teams in England - do not sell nearly as many tickets for the average cup tie as they do for league games. 

 

I absolutely agree that one has to be very careful in terms of adopting a 'speculate to accumulate' policy - you are correct that this has led to disasters at various clubs, including our own. But I also genuinely worry that if we do not give some serious thought to increasing capacity we are actually missing out on an opportunity to grow our support. I'm not suggesting the club spends millions greatly increasing capacity in the blind hope that thousands more start attending. All I'm saying is the club need to start exploring what the next step is in terms of capacity. 

 

Fair enough. I was simply explaining how I understand the club considers attendance figures in business planning. As for the individual points you make you may be right, it's just down to interpretation and how you use the information in planning ahead for worst case scenarios. 

 

Before I shut up on this topic, I do find the club's decision not to increase season ticket prices, even minimally, at a time when there is a waiting list very telling. I think most of us were expecting a price increase. I acknowledge that they say that this is being done because of the financial challenging world that we live in, but I get the impression that the club is more concerned about retaining support rather than growth as Budge has always operated a very cautious business model in her role at Hearts. As with everything, of course, I may well be wrong but it's just my take on things. 

[number-16]

15 hours ago, Nobreath said:

Until such time as we increase the capacity of Tynecastle, should we consider going down the Brentford route to improve numbers of bums on seats?

 

https://www.brentfordfc.com/en/news/article/new-brentford-season-ticket-policy-explained

As someone who travels from Aberdeen to get to games, and who has missed a fair few games (mainly due to family reasons) over the past couple of years, I'd be happy with this.

I'm more than happy to post my seat on the ticket exchange if I can't manage (even before the ticket exchange I used to call the club to offer to release my ticket). I would be significantly less happy if there was minimum attendances required.

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

19 hours ago, johnking123 said:

Our fan base has grown considerably over past couple of decades. Really could do with 25k stadium at the moment.  

It’s a high risk issue but realistically we could get 25,000 for each home game against Hibs, Uglies and Aberdeen and over 20k for maybe United.

 

Other than that though we’d be looking at a stadium only at 75% capacity.

[Sooks]

2 hours ago, Costanza said:

Get Daniel Stendel in as Project Manager and then anything is possible.

POWER POWER POWER !!! Sorry Dan , I am the plumber not the sparky 

[Bongo 1874]

3 hours ago, Costanza said:

Get Daniel Stendel in as Project Manager and then anything is possible.

How ironic that Stendel's character was assassinated,  for that loss at St Mirren in the small time he was here.

 

Only for Robbie to lose against the same team and get sacked.

 

In the bible it says what goes around comes around.

 

😀.

[Bongo 1874]

I have assurance from people that work on these things, and it's possible to make the Wheatfield a 16k seater stand.

 

30k plus is what is needed and that will do us for the next 50- 100 years setting the club up for lifetime.

 

The problem is funding it but us jambos always find a way,we don't do walking away!!!!.

[His name is]

Another small issue, do we need such large segregation sections? Loosing out on decent cash over the season