TYNECASTLE STADIUM UPGRADE POTENTIAL - UEFA category 4 granted ( updated/merged )

[gorgierulesapply88]

1 hour ago, Kyle Lafferty HoMSC said:

I think unfortunately cash kiosks may be a thing of the past.

Was hearing on a podcast that we have already/plan to take up at least part of the pitch

Seems crazy! Cashless society...

 

I only use cash, and my wee man has wanted scran&drink all to often but not been able too.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 hour ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

Any plans for stadium improvements during this break? 

 

Perhaps bringing back cash kiosks would be a good start!

I know Hibs, are ripping up their pitch and getting new LED lights etc. Which we have already done.

Work ongoing on the Hotel in main stand 

[gorgierulesapply88]

3 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Work ongoing on the Hotel in main stand 

Has been for some time? Who has the contract for that anyone closer to 'owner'?

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

7 minutes ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

Has been for some time? Who has the contract for that anyone closer to 'owner'?

Due to open October I believe! Haven't a scooby who has contract 

[Taffin]

17 minutes ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

Seems crazy! Cashless society...

 

I only use cash, and my wee man has wanted scran&drink all to often but not been able too.

 

I was baffled when they stopped me bartering my labour for a halftime pie and Bovril.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Taffin

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

I was baffled when they stopped me bartering my labour for a halftime pie and Bovril.

I took two chickens but still they wouldn't give me a pie. 🥸

[Sooks]

13 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I was baffled when they stopped me bartering my labour for a halftime pie and Bovril.

I get paid in meat and beer 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

8 hours ago, damo said:

Keeping the fantasy going a bit longer, I was looking at Liverpool's Sir Kenny Dalglish stand as a potential model for a Wheatfield replacement. (Assuming all the caveats are taken care of ...land, planning, costs, ethanol tanks, roof truss  etc etc)

 

It holds just shy of 12K ..... its a 2 tier with corporate boxes. Anfields pitch length is also the same as ours at 100M.  Looking at these google images suggests it may be possible to build something similar without encroaching too close to flats behind ?  

 

 

That stand doesn’t look like it’s got filled corners so am afraid it’s not up to the requirements 

[Sooks]

I am 62 per cent certain Inwas once served by a Hibs supporter in the 1874 bar . It was a few years ago but I am frothing with rage over it . I bet it was Budge who insisted they get the job 

[kila]

1 hour ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

Seems crazy! Cashless society...

 

I only use cash, and my wee man has wanted scran&drink all to often but not been able too.

 

Would be good if Hearts done a 'cash card' that could be topped up at a vending machine to use at the kiosks, even the season ticket cards could be used. I much prefer cashless kiosks as the queue goes down much quicker - payment completes as the server is getting your pie.

 

[Boris5115]

1 hour ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Due to open October I believe! Haven't a scooby who has contract 

The contract went to the guy who has advertising boards around the piggery. 

[gorgierulesapply88]

49 minutes ago, Boris5115 said:

The contract went to the guy who has advertising boards around the piggery. 

That narrows it doon 👀🤣

[Boris5115]

5 minutes ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

That narrows it doon 👀🤣

Absolutely I didn't want to make it too easy to guess 😂. Tender process was rigged again. 

[Kev1998]

13 minutes ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

That narrows it doon 👀🤣

We will need to win the champions league to pay for it then

[gorgierulesapply88]

1 hour ago, Boris5115 said:

Absolutely I didn't want to make it too easy to guess 😂. Tender process was rigged again. 

It's no the bloody brother again is it? 👀

[soonbe110]

5 hours ago, Kyle Lafferty HoMSC said:

I think unfortunately cash kiosks may be a thing of the past.

Was hearing on a podcast that we have already/plan to take up at least part of the pitch

Strange, was there yesterday and the pitch looks in fantastic condition for end of season. 

[soonbe110]

On 04/06/2023 at 21:24, johnking123 said:

Next rebuild has to big. Will be costly too. Be tempted to place more facilities in a new wheatfield and move more hotel rooms into the 1st floor. 12000 seater stand or its not really worth it. It will cost £30-£40 million.

Maybe I’m wrong but can’t think many businesses spend 1.5/2 yrs revenue to increase their asset base for what would be a circa 10% increase in revenue. 

[OTT]

3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Maybe I’m wrong but can’t think many businesses spend 1.5/2 yrs revenue to increase their asset base for what would be a circa 10% increase in revenue. 

 

I hate to use that "but football is special" line but well, it is. Spurs spent £850m on their new stadium, their turnover last year was £444m. 

 

We don't have shareholders in the traditional sense - ie ones that expect a return for their money invested. Its about growing the club, achieving its potential and ultimately getting us closer to winning things. Yes spending that kind of money is a lot, but I'm dubious of how much the club would actually need to come up with itself, James Anderson has said before we need to be more ambitious, can't think of much more ambitious than delivering a stand that would give us the undisputed 3rd largest club stadium in the country. 

 

I think its something that needs to happen. The club has so much potential and its like we've stuck a gastric band round ourselves. 

[soonbe110]

5 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I hate to use that "but football is special" line but well, it is. Spurs spent £850m on their new stadium, their turnover last year was £444m. 

 

We don't have shareholders in the traditional sense - ie ones that expect a return for their money invested. Its about growing the club, achieving its potential and ultimately getting us closer to winning things. Yes spending that kind of money is a lot, but I'm dubious of how much the club would actually need to come up with itself, James Anderson has said before we need to be more ambitious, can't think of much more ambitious than delivering a stand that would give us the undisputed 3rd largest club stadium in the country. 

 

I think its something that needs to happen. The club has so much potential and its like we've stuck a gastric band round ourselves. 

And since doing it they have been in free fall. They are skint and have just hired a manager who wouldn’t have even made their long list for the job three years ago.  Not in Europe next season after early exit in season just finished. Only one sellable asset left and he is going this summer.  All because of the stadium build and the financial constraints it brings.  Arsenal suffered same thing and it’s taken them 15 years to get back to even close to where they were. I’d like to think we wouldn’t be so stupid. 

Edited June 5, 2023 by soonbe110

[OTT]

4 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

And since doing it they have been in free fall. They are skint and have just hired a manager who wouldn’t have even made their long list for the job three years ago.  Not in Europe next season after early exit in season just finished. Only one sellable asset left and he is going this summer.  All because of the stadium build and the financial constraints it brings.  Arsenal suffered same thing and it’s taken them 15 years to get back to even close to where they were. I’d like to think we wouldn’t be so stupid. 

 

I'm not really into arguing this one. I can't see the argument against doing it having any merit at all. Yes its expensive, but so what? If we can fund it, do it. In 10 years time, we'll be glad it was done. Both Spurs and Arsenal play in a ridiculous league where nations literally own clubs, its no wonder they can't compete. Its nothing to do with their stadiums at all. Christ by the end of it, Abramovic couldn't match City anymore. What we would be looking to do is grow our resources to ensure 3rd becomes more of a forgone conclusion instead of a slugging match. Maybe also give us that little bit extra to chase cups. 

 

Is there not a hunger to see how big the club can grow? An ambition to give Edinburgh a team that is irrefutably the 3rd biggest club in the country? 

 

I'm absolutely convinced Hearts are a sleeping giant that has suffered decades of horrific mismanagement. Finally under Budge and the FOH we're beginning to see some of that potential come to the fore, and I really don't see why we should stop now. Next goal for the board should be securing funding and planning permission to do it. 

[jr ewing]

38 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

And since doing it they have been in free fall. They are skint and have just hired a manager who wouldn’t have even made their long list for the job three years ago.  Not in Europe next season after early exit in season just finished. Only one sellable asset left and he is going this summer.  All because of the stadium build and the financial constraints it brings.  Arsenal suffered same thing and it’s taken them 15 years to get back to even close to where they were. I’d like to think we wouldn’t be so stupid. 

See Leeds, Coventry and others. All built new stands and failed. 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, jr ewing said:

See Leeds, Coventry and others. All built new stands and failed. 

 

Coventry built a new stadium but they'd lost ownership by the time it was finished as it needed bailed out

[johnking123]

6 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Maybe I’m wrong but can’t think many businesses spend 1.5/2 yrs revenue to increase their asset base for what would be a circa 10% increase in revenue. 

As I said. Put corporate facilities and other none match day money making revenue. Doubling the size of hotel in main stand. That way, new stand in constantly being used. Would ad upto more than 10% and would hopefully keep us in tynecastle for next 20 years 

[soonbe110]

8 hours ago, OTT said:

 

I'm not really into arguing this one. I can't see the argument against doing it having any merit at all. Yes its expensive, but so what? If we can fund it, do it. In 10 years time, we'll be glad it was done. Both Spurs and Arsenal play in a ridiculous league where nations literally own clubs, its no wonder they can't compete. Its nothing to do with their stadiums at all. Christ by the end of it, Abramovic couldn't match City anymore. What we would be looking to do is grow our resources to ensure 3rd becomes more of a forgone conclusion instead of a slugging match. Maybe also give us that little bit extra to chase cups. 

 

Is there not a hunger to see how big the club can grow? An ambition to give Edinburgh a team that is irrefutably the 3rd biggest club in the country? 

 

I'm absolutely convinced Hearts are a sleeping giant that has suffered decades of horrific mismanagement. Finally under Budge and the FOH we're beginning to see some of that potential come to the fore, and I really don't see why we should stop now. Next goal for the board should be securing funding and planning permission to do it. 

Think we would all like to see how big the club can become.  I also think most of us wouldn’t want and Admin Mk2 experience if it cant become as big as some think. 

[johnking123]

Would really depend if James anderson and others are still willing to assist. The hotel and other extras have been helped paid for by him. He seems to want us to show ambition and feel he would help with that.

[Bazzas right boot]

15 hours ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

Any plans for stadium improvements during this break? 

 

Perhaps bringing back cash kiosks would be a good start!

I know Hibs, are ripping up their pitch and getting new LED lights etc. Which we have already done.

 

Hibs are replacing their pitch with LED lights?

Bold move, another first for them- no pitch.

 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

10 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Maybe I’m wrong but can’t think many businesses spend 1.5/2 yrs revenue to increase their asset base for what would be a circa 10% increase in revenue. 

 

 

Tbh, Football clubs do it all the time, they often spend more than their revenue.

 

Hopefully we've been tucking away the FoH money and will announce a big project in a year or 2.

 

Get around 28k, keep finishing 3rd or 4th and suddenly the talk of closing the gap on the OF seems real.

 

Either that or wait until we sell Devlin for £5m and Rowles for £10m.

 

Joab Done.

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by Bazzas right boot

[Bazzas right boot]

13 hours ago, kila said:

 

Would be good if Hearts done a 'cash card' that could be topped up at a vending machine to use at the kiosks, even the season ticket cards could be used. I much prefer cashless kiosks as the queue goes down much quicker - payment completes as the server is getting your pie.

 

 

Aye, first seen that in Munich,  really easy and efficient.

[Kyle Lafferty HoMSC]

10 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Strange, was there yesterday and the pitch looks in fantastic condition for end of season. 

I agree, first season for a while that its not really cut up at all even through winter

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, johnking123 said:

Would really depend if James anderson and others are still willing to assist. The hotel and other extras have been helped paid for by him. He seems to want us to show ambition and feel he would help with that.

The managerial appointment will show us how ambitious he is   Heavily involved in interviews  

[Famous 1874]

Posted on the season ticket thread but probably more appropriate here. 
 

We’ll sell out season tickets for a 2nd season in a row. There’s a reported 5k+ on a waiting list. 
 

The club have openly spoken about having their own training space / having a more Hearts specific part of the Oriam which obviously will cost £££

 

However I do wonder that after the completion of the hotel project that the stadium will be prioritised over the training ground setup. I expect the club are now looking at that in more detail 

[damo]

17 hours ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

That stand doesn’t look like it’s got filled corners so am afraid it’s not up to the requirements 

Kind of is..... in a hodge podge type of way

 

[davemclaren]

24 minutes ago, damo said:

Kind of is..... in a hodge podge type of way

 

Sore neck in some of those seats. 

[SwindonJambo]

14 hours ago, jr ewing said:

See Leeds, Coventry and others. All built new stands and failed. 

Long before the big money era, Chelsea’s fancy main stand, built in the 70s and still there, put them in Major financial difficulties. They were then a yo yo club with the other 3 sides very rickety and some absolute thugs following them. Completely unrecognisable from the Uber corporate modern day iteration.

[OTT]

6 hours ago, Famous 1874 said:

Posted on the season ticket thread but probably more appropriate here. 
 

We’ll sell out season tickets for a 2nd season in a row. There’s a reported 5k+ on a waiting list. 
 

The club have openly spoken about having their own training space / having a more Hearts specific part of the Oriam which obviously will cost £££

 

However I do wonder that after the completion of the hotel project that the stadium will be prioritised over the training ground setup. I expect the club are now looking at that in more detail 

 

Seems like madness to leave that on the table. Delivering a Wheatfield that maximises potential capacity would signal probably the greatest period of growth the club has seen (certainly in my lifetime) and give us a stadium bigger than many Championship clubs - I'm not saying we could match them for wages, but it would give us a decent chunk of money to spend on getting better on the field which ultimately is what we all want. 

 

There is no question its mega expensive to do, but we're not a conventional business, we're not looking to retain money for shareholders dividends, care about a share price or anything like that. Its about growth and establishing ourselves as Scotlands 3rd biggest team and actually having a record that undeniably reflects that. Success on the field is what our goal essentially is and building up the infrastructure to achieve and support the aspirations of the (growing!!) fan base absolutely lines up with that goal. 

 

The main stand cost us over £20m, and we managed to fund that. Completely appreciate its contingent on an awful lot of hard work on behalf of the board and generosity from our incredible benefactors, but if we can get it done, there really is no reason not to do it. A Wheatfield that took us beyond 25k would be magnificent and based on the waiting list, suggests it would give us the capacity we need. 

 

Funding is the major obstacle (and its a ****ing huge one at that), and I'd really like to hear if a potential Wheatfield expansion has been talked about at board level + how we might get there in terms of raising the funds needed. Its hard to think the board (who are probably the best board we've had in at least 30 years, probably longer) haven't looked at the giant waiting list and thought about capacity. 

[Famous 1874]

James Anderson chequebook splurge needed.

 

As long as it’s not Budge’s brothers company who is given any business ever again at the club. 

Wonder if the club could offer a membership type system that other clubs do to gain extra funds. Although I doubt that would help with the obvious capacity issue.

 

[sac]

15 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Seems like madness to leave that on the table. Delivering a Wheatfield that maximises potential capacity would signal probably the greatest period of growth the club has seen (certainly in my lifetime) and give us a stadium bigger than many Championship clubs - I'm not saying we could match them for wages, but it would give us a decent chunk of money to spend on getting better on the field which ultimately is what we all want. 

 

There is no question its mega expensive to do, but we're not a conventional business, we're not looking to retain money for shareholders dividends, care about a share price or anything like that. Its about growth and establishing ourselves as Scotlands 3rd biggest team and actually having a record that undeniably reflects that. Success on the field is what our goal essentially is and building up the infrastructure to achieve and support the aspirations of the (growing!!) fan base absolutely lines up with that goal. 

 

The main stand cost us over £20m, and we managed to fund that. Completely appreciate its contingent on an awful lot of hard work on behalf of the board and generosity from our incredible benefactors, but if we can get it done, there really is no reason not to do it. A Wheatfield that took us beyond 25k would be magnificent and based on the waiting list, suggests it would give us the capacity we need. 

 

Funding is the major obstacle (and its a ****ing huge one at that), and I'd really like to hear if a potential Wheatfield expansion has been talked about at board level + how we might get there in terms of raising the funds needed. Its hard to think the board (who are probably the best board we've had in at least 30 years, probably longer) haven't looked at the giant waiting list and thought about capacity. 

James Anderson should be all over this, not financially, but in terms of his mantra of ambition and aspiration.

but if he wants to donate a wedge that would be lovely 

[DETTY29]

1 minute ago, Famous 1874 said:

James Anderson chequebook splurge needed.

 

As long as it’s not Budge’s brothers company who is given any business ever again at the club. 

Wonder if the club could offer a membership type system that other clubs do to gain extra funds. Although I doubt that would help with the obvious capacity issue.

 

Did JB's work lead to any over-runs in terms of time, cost or quality?

[DETTY29]

In the last 6 years the club has funded a £20m - £24m (guestimates) stadium development between benefactors, FOH, clubs funds and of course AB support, delays in repayment terms.

 

Notwithstanding increase in costs and what you get for money, is a £25m investment over a medium term inconceivable?

[David McCaig]

29 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

Seems like madness to leave that on the table. Delivering a Wheatfield that maximises potential capacity would signal probably the greatest period of growth the club has seen (certainly in my lifetime) and give us a stadium bigger than many Championship clubs - I'm not saying we could match them for wages, but it would give us a decent chunk of money to spend on getting better on the field which ultimately is what we all want. 

 

There is no question its mega expensive to do, but we're not a conventional business, we're not looking to retain money for shareholders dividends, care about a share price or anything like that. Its about growth and establishing ourselves as Scotlands 3rd biggest team and actually having a record that undeniably reflects that. Success on the field is what our goal essentially is and building up the infrastructure to achieve and support the aspirations of the (growing!!) fan base absolutely lines up with that goal. 

 

The main stand cost us over £20m, and we managed to fund that. Completely appreciate its contingent on an awful lot of hard work on behalf of the board and generosity from our incredible benefactors, but if we can get it done, there really is no reason not to do it. A Wheatfield that took us beyond 25k would be magnificent and based on the waiting list, suggests it would give us the capacity we need. 

 

Funding is the major obstacle (and its a ****ing huge one at that), and I'd really like to hear if a potential Wheatfield expansion has been talked about at board level + how we might get there in terms of raising the funds needed. Its hard to think the board (who are probably the best board we've had in at least 30 years, probably longer) haven't looked at the giant waiting list and thought about capacity. 

My completely unqualified architectural thought is that it would probably make sense to demolish all 3 "old" stands simultaneously and rebuild in a horseshoe formation.  It may be that building slightly smaller Gorgie and Roseburn stands allows us to cantilever them and join them up with a brand new mega-Wheatfield for a much larger overall capacity

Edited June 6, 2023 by David McCaig

[OTT]

7 minutes ago, sac said:

James Anderson should be all over this, not financially, but in terms of his mantra of ambition and aspiration.

but if he wants to donate a wedge that would be lovely 

 

Exactly  I hate name dropping him, because the guy has honestly done more for the club (alongside Budge) than anyone could have possibly asked. If he never put in another cent, he'd still be held in the highest regard for everything he's done. 

 

But yeah, no chance that Stand is getting built without a big helping hand IMO. 

 

10 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Did JB's work lead to any over-runs in terms of time, cost or quality?

 

This is something I've wondered too, I believe I'm right in saying that the JB had the lowest bid, but had never dealt with this kind of work before which is a factor in the costs spiralling as they did. I'm not saying a more experienced contractor would have came in much cheaper than the final bill, but its maybe a learning curve for all involved the next time major works are planned. Make sure we go for an experienced contractor. 

[Thomaso]

4 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

Long before the big money era, Chelsea’s fancy main stand, built in the 70s and still there, put them in Major financial difficulties. They were then a yo yo club with the other 3 sides very rickety and some absolute thugs following them. Completely unrecognisable from the Uber corporate modern day iteration.

Rescued by a Russian gangster 

[Thomaso]

26 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Did JB's work lead to any over-runs in terms of time, cost or quality?

No the die was already struck with a ridiculous cost plan of £12m before he got involved with the internal fit out.

[johnking123]

Need a bigger truss wider placed so that can hang the Gorgie and Roseburn trusses up. Need some big supports and cantilever combo though. Could get a couple of corners filled!

[Cranny1]

The quality of the work carried out by JB or the other contractors was never an issue on the stand, the work was inspected by a Clerk of Works on a daily basis during the building of the stand, as Tomaso said it was the ridicules price of £12 million quoted by the architect who built the other stands that was the problem.

 

The architect insisted he could build the new stand for £12 Million, the price he quoted was for a shell like the other 3 stands, what he forgot to add was the price of the metal decking, the full fit-out of dressing rooms, hospitality suites, offices and the electrical and mechanical plant and electrical substation upgrade etc.

 

A well-known contractor who had experience in building football stadiums, quoted a rough estimate of £25 million without taking into account the price of the demolition of the old stand, so the £20 million we paid for the new stand was not a bad price to pay after all.   

[Watt-Zeefuik]

On 05/06/2023 at 05:02, damo said:

Keeping the fantasy going a bit longer, I was looking at Liverpool's Sir Kenny Dalglish stand as a potential model for a Wheatfield replacement. (Assuming all the caveats are taken care of ...land, planning, costs, ethanol tanks, roof truss  etc etc)

 

It holds just shy of 12K ..... its a 2 tier with corporate boxes. Anfields pitch length is also the same as ours at 100M.  Looking at these google images suggests it may be possible to build something similar without encroaching too close to flats behind ?  

 

 

 

I'm going to keep flogging the big stand at Elland Road as a model. When they added corporate suites it cut the capacity but it's still close to 15k.

 

 

22 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Maybe I’m wrong but can’t think many businesses spend 1.5/2 yrs revenue to increase their asset base for what would be a circa 10% increase in revenue. 

 

I would say any business that runs events with very large numbers of people in a facility it owns with a relatively small number of occupied days would be likely candidates.

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, Led Tasso said:

 

I'm going to keep flogging the big stand at Elland Road as a model. When they added corporate suites it cut the capacity but it's still close to 15k.

 

 

 

I would say any business that runs events with very large numbers of people in a facility it owns with a relatively small number of occupied days would be likely candidates.

I agree to disagree.  Leeds have been skint since they built the stand even when in the top league. Vast majority of clubs that make these major stadia investments go backwards.  We have yet to see many recover.  Arsenal may be that club hut one swallow and all that - time will tell. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

4 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

I agree to disagree.  Leeds have been skint since they built the stand even when in the top league. Vast majority of clubs that make these major stadia investments go backwards.  We have yet to see many recover.  Arsenal may be that club hut one swallow and all that - time will tell. 

They built the stand in 1993 and went on to have a run of phenomenal success. Like Rangers (and Hearts for that matter) they got greedy and started borrowing against future income that didn't materialize and that blew them up. But immediately after they built that stand, they were in high cotton.

 

EDIT: I just looked it up and if Wikipedia and various news archives are telling the truth, they literally spent £5.5 million on the East Stand in 1993 and £18m on Rio Ferdinand in 2000. It wasn't the East Stand that did them in . . .

Edited June 6, 2023 by Led Tasso

[Sooks]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

I agree to disagree.  Leeds have been skint since they built the stand even when in the top league. Vast majority of clubs that make these major stadia investments go backwards.  We have yet to see many recover.  Arsenal may be that club hut one swallow and all that - time will tell. 

Brighton did alright 

[soonbe110]

6 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

They built the stand in 1993 and went on to have a run of phenomenal success. Like Rangers (and Hearts for that matter) they got greedy and started borrowing against future income that didn't materialize and that blew them up. But immediately after they built that stand, they were in high cotton.

 

EDIT: I just looked it up and if Wikipedia and various news archives are telling the truth, they literally spent £5.5 million on the East Stand in 1993 and £18m on Rio Ferdinand in 2000. It wasn't the East Stand that did them in . . .

They did have some success but the stand investment was the start of their financial issues.  Yes they bought Ferdinand but that was because Ridsdale was a silly boy taking out so many loans  against infrastructure builds and future tv and gate receipts that the stand was expected to help deliver but then didn’t.  They then had, what, 17 years out of the top division.