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niblick1874
6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I don’t really understand it to be honest . What is the point of it ? 

 

Sorry I quoted the wrong person. I meant to quote globalist boy. 

Edited by niblick1874
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niblick1874
21 minutes ago, XB52 said:

This thread is bat shit mental. A bunch of radical feminists decide to harass a trans friendly bar leading to police being called but somehow its all the fault of a trans bar person. Of course it is all one person leading this thread, the most bigoted anti-trans poster on this board. I wonder how he would have reacted years ago if a bunch of 'straight' guys had decided to harass a gay bar?? I just can't get my head round how the worm has turned 

 

What do you think about drag queen story time.

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JamesM48
Just now, niblick1874 said:

 

Sorry I quoted the wrong person

Well the argument for it is that children love outlandish clothes , glitz glamour etc like they may see at pantomimes yet the counter argument is that drag is basically “ adult “ entertainment as such with drag performers mainly dressed in outlandish sexually provocative clothes heels etc ? Is that ok for children to  be exposed to ? I would probably have to say no it’s not. And I’m certainly no prude . There was an example last year where Mhari Black ( Ri Albans favourite politician 😂) hired a drag queen for a library reading . The drag Queen mentioned her Twitter account and that was full of adult / explicit content ( not pornography ) but was certainly unsuitable for children . Black was roundly condemned about this 

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niblick1874
10 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Well the argument for it is that children love outlandish clothes , glitz glamour etc like they may see at pantomimes yet the counter argument is that drag is basically “ adult “ entertainment as such with drag performers mainly dressed in outlandish sexually provocative clothes heels etc ? Is that ok for children to  be exposed to ? I would probably have to say no it’s not. And I’m certainly no prude . There was an example last year where Mhari Black ( Ri Albans favourite politician 😂) hired a drag queen for a library reading . The drag Queen mentioned her Twitter account and that was full of adult / explicit content ( not pornography ) but was certainly unsuitable for children . Black was roundly condemned about this 

 

I posted a video that would not get me bannd. Go look at the real stuff. 

Edited by niblick1874
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JamesM48
16 minutes ago, niblick1874 said:

 

I posted a video that would not get me bannd. Go look at the real stuff. 

Well I read the news items about the Mhairi Black incident which has informed my view about it all . I don’t think it’s a creepy/  insidious /recruitment / grooming thing . I just don’t think it’s not appropriate “entertainment “ for very young children. 

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doctor jambo

Seems tolerance and inclusivity is a bit of a one way street to some people. You shouldn’t demand your rights by denying others, or your opinions.

pandering to extremes is never a good move.

Also these things need done by consent.

I know that if I slept with someone and they then revealed they used to be a man, I’d be pretty upset.

Id view that as non consensual .

 

 

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JamesM48
1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

Seems tolerance and inclusivity is a bit of a one way street to some people. You shouldn’t demand your rights by denying others, or your opinions.

pandering to extremes is never a good move.

Also these things need done by consent.

I know that if I slept with someone and they then revealed they used to be a man, I’d be pretty upset.

Id view that as non consensual .

 

 

That’s the issue . There is zero debate in this subject by trans extremists . Any dissent from this view if viewed as anti trans bigotry . How can that be healthy ? 

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doctor jambo
4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

That’s the issue . There is zero debate in this subject by trans extremists . Any dissent from this view if viewed as anti trans bigotry . How can that be healthy ? 

The difficulty is that everyone has an obsession with their “rights”.

And that theirs supersede those of others.

My “right “ to declare myself a woman and wander into a female shower/ gym class supersedes their right to feel comfortable/safe.

My “right” to declare myself a woman and a lesbian and deny men the right to go into a lesbian bar.

People really have an overblown impression of their “rights”.

Self identification of gender/ and now race are making a mockery of discrimination.

Its gone beyond treating people with kindness and empathy.

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Ron Burgundy
9 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

That’s the issue . There is zero debate in this subject by trans extremists . Any dissent from this view if viewed as anti trans bigotry . How can that be healthy ? 

That's how extremists work, BLM, Antifa etc. Disagree and you are immediately the enemy. No room for opposing views or difference of opinion. Or tolerance.

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The Real Maroonblood
25 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

That's how extremists work, BLM, Antifa etc. Disagree and you are immediately the enemy. No room for opposing views or difference of opinion. Or tolerance.

Fair comment.

Probably with some people who have moderate opposing views become more extreme.

What a world we live in.

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doctor jambo
1 minute ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Fair comment.

Probably with some people who have moderate opposing views become more extreme.

What a world we live in.

Perhaps if people were to treat the left amd their radicals in the same derisive manner as the right that would be a start?

seems that those on the left can say and do anything , whereas the reality is there are morons on both sides

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JamesM48
33 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The difficulty is that everyone has an obsession with their “rights”.

And that theirs supersede those of others.

My “right “ to declare myself a woman and wander into a female shower/ gym class supersedes their right to feel comfortable/safe.

My “right” to declare myself a woman and a lesbian and deny men the right to go into a lesbian bar.

People really have an overblown impression of their “rights”.

Self identification of gender/ and now race are making a mockery of discrimination.

Its gone beyond treating people with kindness and empathy.

👍

31 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

That's how extremists work, BLM, Antifa etc. Disagree and you are immediately the enemy. No room for opposing views or difference of opinion. Or tolerance.

👍

3 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Fair comment.

Probably with some people who have moderate opposing views become more extreme.

What a world we live in.

👍 the right to safety and protection should trump any esoteric rights to whatever identity a person claims to me in my opinion . 

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The Real Maroonblood
1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

Perhaps if people were to treat the left amd their radicals in the same derisive manner as the right that would be a start?

seems that those on the left can say and do anything , whereas the reality is there are morons on both sides

Exactly.

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doctor jambo
26 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

👍

👍

👍 the right to safety and protection should trump any esoteric rights to whatever identity a person claims to me in my opinion . 

Quite- trans have the right to safety and protection- as it should be. The right to dignity also. 
Most other things are a courtesy, respected  as long as it does not infringe those self same things for other people

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John Findlay

To me it's quite simple. Regardless of how you define yourself, we are all human beings. Therefore we all have human rights. No human's rights are more important than another's. Everyone's human rights as far as I am concerned are the same.

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JamesM48
14 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

To me it's quite simple. Regardless of how you define yourself, we are all human beings. Therefore we all have human rights. No human's rights are more important than another's. Everyone's human rights as far as I am concerned are the same.

Yes nice sentiments but trying telling this person that ! 
 

https://www.womenarehuman.com/trans-extremist-investigated-for-threats-to-supporters-of-woman-who-shared-pic-of-suffrage-ribbons/?fbclid=IwAR3SKavRBOzkT7ThTevb7jCl-Y7k7aBt-ZE6YAD1c88Pv2qjB11-siP2yKI

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John Findlay
2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

James they are still entitled to the same human rights as you or me.

If they break the law they suffer the same consequences as anyone else or should do

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JamesM48
Just now, John Findlay said:

James they are still entitled to the same human rights as you or me.

If they break the law they suffer the same consequences as anyone else or should do

But that person was advocating killing “ terfs “ ! This is the dangerous militancy  of some of the trans movement . Threats to life if “ terfs “

don’t agree . 

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John Findlay
55 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

But that person was advocating killing “ terfs “ ! This is the dangerous militancy  of some of the trans movement . Threats to life if “ terfs “

don’t agree . 

Then we as a,supposed responsible society have to let the law deal with them. 

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JamesM48
26 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Then we as a,supposed responsible society have to let the law deal with them. 

Agreed . 

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And in other news Drake identifies as a lesbian . And why not , I’m serious. The trans militants are going mad about this . Maybe he’s not the right kind of “ Lesbian “ middle class ?teenager white ? Blue hair ? https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/09/03/drake-lesbian-certified-lover-boy/?fbclid=IwAR3s-EVtiQLCrT3fhZ9kfpB7mTkFpMNwTboGcWHD-tXIF5M7zty5BRREWZk

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Auldbenches
6 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

And in other news Drake identifies as a lesbian . And why not , I’m serious. The trans militants are going mad about this . Maybe he’s not the right kind of “ Lesbian “ middle class ?teenager white ? Blue hair ? https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/09/03/drake-lesbian-certified-lover-boy/?fbclid=IwAR3s-EVtiQLCrT3fhZ9kfpB7mTkFpMNwTboGcWHD-tXIF5M7zty5BRREWZk

Do you understand most of this gender argument?  It's too complicated for me get into.  My only thinking on it is, if women are uncomfortable with someone using their toilets etc, we have to respect that. 

Question james.  Just for fun but a serious point. 

I take a medication that has side effects and some of the side effects affect women more than men.

If I wake tomorrow and self declare myself as a woman, will I have different side effects fro.the medication?  Being deliberately obtuse here but you get my point. 

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4 hours ago, Auldbenches said:

Do you understand most of this gender argument?  It's too complicated for me get into.  My only thinking on it is, if women are uncomfortable with someone using their toilets etc, we have to respect that. 

Question james.  Just for fun but a serious point. 

I take a medication that has side effects and some of the side effects affect women more than men.

If I wake tomorrow and self declare myself as a woman, will I have different side effects fro.the medication?  Being deliberately obtuse here but you get my point. 

Yes but the issue is what is a “ woman” really. Apparently this is very difficult question to answer nowadays. Well as far as the identity ideology goes you can identify as whomever you are ! Unless you are Drake 😂

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Auldbenches
1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes but the issue is what is a “ woman” really. Apparently this is very difficult question to answer nowadays. Well as far as the identity ideology goes you can identify as whomever you are ! Unless you are Drake 😂

I avoid that debate because it is far too complicated and you worry about getting it wrong. 

Everyone has the right to be whatever they want, but I understand if women feel uncomfortable with people using their toilets etc, them that must matter. 

The good thing is that the younger generation are becoming more accepting to different types.  You'll always get the blockheads but there are less of them now.  I suppose they are just getting louder.

You don't have to answer. 

As a gay man, has it become a lot easier nowadays or is the abuse still the same?  

I heard Scotland was seen as the best place in Europe to be gay.  Value McDermott moved back here because of that.   Have you found that to be the case?  

 

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15 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

I avoid that debate because it is far too complicated and you worry about getting it wrong. 

Everyone has the right to be whatever they want, but I understand if women feel uncomfortable with people using their toilets etc, them that must matter. 

The good thing is that the younger generation are becoming more accepting to different types.  You'll always get the blockheads but there are less of them now.  I suppose they are just getting louder.

You don't have to answer. 

As a gay man, has it become a lot easier nowadays or is the abuse still the same?  

I heard Scotland was seen as the best place in Europe to be gay.  Value McDermott moved back here because of that.   Have you found that to be the case?  

 

Yes many biologically born women feel

Uncomfortable that their “ safe spaces” can be infiltrated by men who may just “ identify “ As women without getting any therapy or physical surgery . Yes things are definitely more tolerant for gay and lesbians now , which is great . However there are still instances of hate reported every day I think . That’s maybe always going to be a difficult thing to eradicate , just like racism , misogyny etc 

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Auldbenches
Just now, JamesM48 said:

Yes many biologically born women feel

Uncomfortable that their “ safe spaces” can be infiltrated by men who may just “ identify “ As women without getting any therapy or physical surgery . Yes things are definitely more tolerant for gay and lesbians now , which is great . However there are still instances of hate reported every day I think . That’s maybe always going to be a difficult thing to eradicate , just like racism , misogyny etc 

Sadly I think you're right with your last sentence.  Just need to keep prosecuting people for it until they learn.  I'm amazed that others get that angry because two other people want to fall in love.  

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Now it seems that the "Scottish Family Party" (no to abortions, no to trannies, no to homosexuals, yes to marriage) booked the function room of a gay bar, pretending to be a group of "academics".

Their booking was cancelled as soon as the pub found out who they really were.

Three of them showed up anyways and were refused entry.

So they went greeting to the press about being "an abused minority"

 

:rofl:

 

Publicans can refuse service to anybody they like.

For any reason.

Unless that reason is against the Equalities Act 2010.

Last time I looked, being homophobic and pro-life are not protected characteristics.

 

These spangles need to crawl back under the rocks they live under and at least learn the law of the land if they're going to attempt pathetic and childish stunts like this in every gay bar in Edinburgh.

Edited by Cade
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4 minutes ago, Cade said:

Now it seems that the "Scottish Family Party" (no to abortions, no to trannies, no to homosexuals, yes to marriage) booked the function room of a gay bar, pretending to be a group of "academics".

Their booking was cancelled as soon as the pub found out who they really were.

Three of them showed up anyways and were refused entry.

So they went greeting to the press about being "an abused minority"

 

:rofl:

 

Publicans can refuse service to anybody they like.

For any reason.

Unless that reason is against the Equalities Act 2010.

Last time I looked, being homophobic and pro-life are not protected characteristics.

 

These spangles need to crawl back under the rocks they live under and at least learn the law of the land if they're going to attempt pathetic and childish stunts like this in every gay bar in Edinburgh.

I know a guy who stood for the SFP at the last election. Nice guy, bit weird at times. Don't think he's a die-hard homophobe.

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3 minutes ago, Cade said:

Now it seems that the "Scottish Family Party" (no to abortions, no to trannies, no to homosexuals, yes to marriage) booked the function room of a gay bar, pretending to be a group of "academics".

Their booking was cancelled as soon as the pub found out who they really were.

Three of them showed up anyways and were refused entry.

So they went greeting to the press about being "an abused minority"

 

:rofl:

 

Publicans can refuse service to anybody they like.

For any reason.

Unless that reason is against the Equalities Act 2010.

Last time I looked, being homophobic and pro-life are not protected characteristics.

 

These spangles need to crawl back under the rocks they live under and at least learn the law of the land if they're going to attempt pathetic and childish stunts like this in every gay bar in Edinburgh.

Ok I’ll play devils advocate . Maybe they were just going to the pub for a meal and drink ? And not spout off their views ? Is that not allowed now ? On a side note I dont think “ The outhouse “ is actually a gay bar as such more on the margins of the gay scene . 

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As to the toilets nonsense, what do people suggest?

An extra trans-only toilet?

What if male-to-female trans feel uncomfortable in the presence of female-to-male trans?

Or if female-to-male feel uncomfortable in the presence of male-to-female?

Do we make one loo for each?
Or several loos for each stage of transition, in both directions?

Who judges when you qualify for entry to which loo?

 

Or do we do away with gendered mass loos altogether and just have single toilets with a pan and a wash-hand basin in each that anyone can use?

 

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14 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

Sadly I think you're right with your last sentence.  Just need to keep prosecuting people for it until they learn.  I'm amazed that others get that angry because two other people want to fall in love.  

That’s how I see it too . But for some reason they seem to want to nosey about all aspects of gay / lesbian lifestyle in particular their sex lives . Very odd . 

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8 minutes ago, Cade said:

As to the toilets nonsense, what do people suggest?

An extra trans-only toilet?

What if male-to-female trans feel uncomfortable in the presence of female-to-male trans?

Or if female-to-male feel uncomfortable in the presence of male-to-female?

Do we make one loo for each?
Or several loos for each stage of transition, in both directions?

Who judges when you qualify for entry to which loo?

 

Or do we do away with gendered mass loos altogether and just have single toilets with a pan and a wash-hand basin in each that anyone can use?

 

Male toilet ( biological males only ) 

Female toilet ( biological females only) 

Gender neutral trans toilet 

 

to be honest i don’t have an issue with sharing toilets with either sex but I respect that if biological women have an issue with it then that needs listened to . 

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Auldbenches
1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

That’s how I see it too . But for some reason they seem to want to nosey about all aspects of gay / lesbian lifestyle in particular their sex lives . Very odd . 

It's strange that someone else's lifestyle makes them feel so uncomfortable.  

If they get punished for an anti gay crime, they should get to Brighton for a week.  They'll come back liberated after having a great time...

An excellent place and it's because of the cultural mix down there.  

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Auldbenches
11 minutes ago, Cade said:

As to the toilets nonsense, what do people suggest?

An extra trans-only toilet?

What if male-to-female trans feel uncomfortable in the presence of female-to-male trans?

Or if female-to-male feel uncomfortable in the presence of male-to-female?

Do we make one loo for each?
Or several loos for each stage of transition, in both directions?

Who judges when you qualify for entry to which loo?

 

Or do we do away with gendered mass loos altogether and just have single toilets with a pan and a wash-hand basin in each that anyone can use?

 

Do we just ignore how a lot of women feel this?  I'm not sure what the answer is but their feelings have to be taken into account.  

How would you solve this issue. 

I'm glad that people are now able to be whatever they want but how women feel about this should matter. 

If it was affordable etc, would you go for more toilet options? 

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Pasquale for King
23 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Ok I’ll play devils advocate . Maybe they were just going to the pub for a meal and drink ? And not spout off their views ? Is that not allowed now ? On a side note I dont think “ The outhouse “ is actually a gay bar as such more on the margins of the gay scene . 

I might ask the manager what happened but it would appear they booked the function room to cause some sort of a scene, there’s loads of places they could’ve met. 

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Pasquale for King
32 minutes ago, Cade said:

Now it seems that the "Scottish Family Party" (no to abortions, no to trannies, no to homosexuals, yes to marriage) booked the function room of a gay bar, pretending to be a group of "academics".

Their booking was cancelled as soon as the pub found out who they really were.

Three of them showed up anyways and were refused entry.

So they went greeting to the press about being "an abused minority"

 

:rofl:

 

Publicans can refuse service to anybody they like.

For any reason.

Unless that reason is against the Equalities Act 2010.

Last time I looked, being homophobic and pro-life are not protected characteristics.

 

These spangles need to crawl back under the rocks they live under and at least learn the law of the land if they're going to attempt pathetic and childish stunts like this in every gay bar in Edinburgh.

Nutters, it’s not even really a gay bar as such just somewhere in the area where most of the gay bars are. 

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I'd rather have individual loos that anyone can use.

Solves all the problems and they can be cleaned one at a time during the day/night and you only lose the capacity of a single loo.

 

I don't spend my time in a public toilet stressing about whether anyone else in there was born with different chomosomes.

I just pish, wash and leave.

Maybe I'm the strange one.

Edited by Cade
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1 hour ago, Auldbenches said:

I avoid that debate because it is far too complicated and you worry about getting it wrong. 

Everyone has the right to be whatever they want, but I understand if women feel uncomfortable with people using their toilets etc, them that must matter. 

The good thing is that the younger generation are becoming more accepting to different types.  You'll always get the blockheads but there are less of them now.  I suppose they are just getting louder.

You don't have to answer. 

As a gay man, has it become a lot easier nowadays or is the abuse still the same?  

I heard Scotland was seen as the best place in Europe to be gay.  Value McDermott moved back here because of that.   Have you found that to be the case?  

 

People don't have the right to be whatever they want. That's the problem.Time folk were introduced to the word, No .

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Auldbenches
1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

People don't have the right to be whatever they want. That's the problem.Time folk were introduced to the word, No .

Aye they do if they aren't harming anyone else.   What's the issue with that? 

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35 minutes ago, Cade said:

As to the toilets nonsense, what do people suggest?

An extra trans-only toilet?

What if male-to-female trans feel uncomfortable in the presence of female-to-male trans?

Or if female-to-male feel uncomfortable in the presence of male-to-female?

Do we make one loo for each?
Or several loos for each stage of transition, in both directions?

Who judges when you qualify for entry to which loo?

 

Or do we do away with gendered mass loos altogether and just have single toilets with a pan and a wash-hand basin in each that anyone can use?

 

Use the toilet provided. If you have a cock, use the men's, dressed as a woman, it's up to them. 

 

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Just now, Auldbenches said:

Aye they do if they aren't harming anyone else.   What's the issue with that? 

Do as they please, but they never seem to keep it at that do they. 

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Auldbenches
4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Do as they please, but they never seem to keep it at that do they. 

Im.not sure what you mean.   By that do you mean they are actively trying to improve the rights of their peers or just a bit vocal in general for you?  

 

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Auldbenches
6 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Do as they please, but they never seem to keep it at that do they. 

The more open they are, the more things are accepted and less bullying among kids with this issue.  

That has a good thing for society.  

Kids have killed themselves because they can't openly be what they want to.  That should never be be acceptable.  

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CF11JamTart
46 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Male toilet ( biological males only ) 

Female toilet ( biological females only) 

Gender neutral trans toilet 

 

to be honest i don’t have an issue with sharing toilets with either sex but I respect that if biological women have an issue with it then that needs listened to . 

That's where I'm at with it. 

 

But we seem to be sleep-walking in to a situation where the concept of male/female (biological) sex as assigned at birth is being diluted as a valid concept. And replaced by gender.

 

With the potential erosion of women's sex-based rights.

 

Going off on a tangent, that Arch Terf Sharon Davies is quite vocal about the competitive advantage that comes with going through male puberty. 

 

There is lots of talk of the need for tolerance and understanding, but any kinda of open discussion gets stamped out in a flurry of Terf / transphobe accusations. 

 

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59 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

It's strange that someone else's lifestyle makes them feel so uncomfortable.  

If they get punished for an anti gay crime, they should get to Brighton for a week.  They'll come back liberated after having a great time...

An excellent place and it's because of the cultural mix down there.  

Yes tragic cases really . Trying to dictate people’s way of life based on their ideology or religion or “ moral “ views . 

55 minutes ago, Auldbenches said:

Do we just ignore how a lot of women feel this?  I'm not sure what the answer is but their feelings have to be taken into account.  

How would you solve this issue. 

I'm glad that people are now able to be whatever they want but how women feel about this should matter. 

If it was affordable etc, would you go for more toilet options? 

No we don’t ignore it women’s views about this as they are most affected by it I feel 

35 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

People don't have the right to be whatever they want. That's the problem.Time folk were introduced to the word, No .

Oh here he comes the resident well I’ll not say on this  . Certainly intolerant 

30 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Do as they please, but they never seem to keep it at that do they. 

Very telling statement from you as per usual . 

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4 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

That's where I'm at with it. 

 

But we seem to be sleep-walking in to a situation where the concept of male/female (biological) sex as assigned at birth is being diluted as a valid concept. And replaced by gender.

 

With the potential erosion of women's sex-based rights.

 

Going off on a tangent, that Arch Terf Sharon Davies is quite vocal about the competitive advantage that comes with going through male puberty. 

 

There is lots of talk of the need for tolerance and understanding, but any kinda of open discussion gets stamped out in a flurry of Terf / transphobe accusations. 

 

Yes that’s the main issue . It’s a women’s issue regarding their right to safety and projection . Males have no say in this , however some do that’s the concern . 

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CF11JamTart
2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes that’s the main issue . It’s a women’s issue regarding their right to safety and projection . Males have no say in this , however some do that’s the concern . 

Yet no-one can agree on an definition of "a woman". 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

Yet no-one can agree on an definition of "a woman". 

 

 

I disagree . I think it is an adult biological female . Most women agree with that . 

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CF11JamTart
53 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I disagree . I think it is an adult biological female . Most women agree with that . 

I  agree with you 100%. So does my wife. And I think that my daughter does too. 

 

It's bemusing seeing people in the public eye petrified about mis-stepping. 

 

It's simple... Adult biological female. But that probably makes me a transphobe. 

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