“ Doctors “ pub trans row

[CF11JamTart]

4 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

Yeah but the whole alphabet soup of LGBTQ+... makes it about sexuality. Put it this way, on their own the trans lobby would not be heard at all. 

 

No I would never sign-up to putting a pronoun of choice on an email. People can work it out for themselves. if my employer asked me to, I would just quietly not do it, and let them come to me about it. let them try to justify it... But then on internal emails I only put my initials, not even a name, let alone a title. External email signature has a logo, but I only ever sign off with a first name. I don't give any mofos a phone number as I don't really have to because of Teams...

You're right. The alphabet soup is moving towards conflating sexuality and gender identity. Which I'd always thought were different. 

 

I like your style with the pronoun thing

[Tazio]

I genuinely worry about there being a mental health crisis of epic proportions in the future. Young people, some very young, are getting bombarded by information from, mostly well meaning, people about sexuality and gender. I have a few friends who are in happy marriages with women who identified as lesbians when they were at university, but to be honest never really acted on it beyond a bit of snogging and fumbling. It just seemed to be a thing back then for young girls that were away from home for the first time and suddenly in a very liberal environment. But it wasn't a thing with an organised support movement that is almost political like the trans movement is now. Being young and a little bit curious about something is perfectly natural and has always gone on in certain environments and often a passing phase. Announcing you're a different gender, and in some cases taking it all the way to surgery is less easy to come back from. 

I'm. very liberal person but something about the oddball trans/non binary extremists doesn't sit right with me at all. You see these odd types on Twitter and and the like with this very bizarre idea of feminine. Unicorn or manga avatars and photos of their houses that are done up like a 7 year old girls idea of home with pink decor and cuddly toys. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 hours ago, Spellczech said:

How can anyone be bothered with this stuff? - it is all so tiresome and unimportant, unless a person make's their whole being about their sexuality...in which case they are boring.

 

Just show other people the respect you would expect to be shown yourself, ie try not to stare if that person has a beard and wears a dress that is designed for a person with a different bodyshape...just as you would with women from the north of England.

 

No chance am I getting into all that tip-toeing around the use of the correct pronouns either. I take the view that "It's your problem not mine...If you seek to be offended then you will be, so Eff off in that case!..."

Bizarre rant . You are preaching tolerance and respect  at the beginning of it then your not bothered if you offend anyone regarding pronouns etc ! 

3 hours ago, CF11JamTart said:

 

I get your general point, but it's not about sexuality. It's about the extent to which someone born with a penis / a vagina (and assigned male / female sex at birth) can declare themselves as a different gender and get any specific "privileges" associated with that gender. (use of women's bogs, being on all-women shortlists, competing in a women's amateur rugby team). 

 

And presumably your employer doesn't actively encourage you to be specific about pronouns on your email signatures. (I'm "he/his"). 

It’s nothin new with people getting gender / sexuality and sex all mixed up really . You are completely right about why there is a heated argument about trans v biological women’s

rights . 

2 hours ago, CF11JamTart said:

You're right. The alphabet soup is moving towards conflating sexuality and gender identity. Which I'd always thought were different. 

 

I like your style with the pronoun thing

Yes this is what drives me nuts 🌰 the sometimes deliberate conflating of sex and gender . Throw in the issue of sexuality too  and it’s a  right old mess. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Tazio said:

I genuinely worry about there being a mental health crisis of epic proportions in the future. Young people, some very young, are getting bombarded by information from, mostly well meaning, people about sexuality and gender. I have a few friends who are in happy marriages with women who identified as lesbians when they were at university, but to be honest never really acted on it beyond a bit of snogging and fumbling. It just seemed to be a thing back then for young girls that were away from home for the first time and suddenly in a very liberal environment. But it wasn't a thing with an organised support movement that is almost political like the trans movement is now. Being young and a little bit curious about something is perfectly natural and has always gone on in certain environments and often a passing phase. Announcing you're a different gender, and in some cases taking it all the way to surgery is less easy to come back from. 

I'm. very liberal person but something about the oddball trans/non binary extremists doesn't sit right with me at all. You see these odd types on Twitter and and the like with this very bizarre idea of feminine. Unicorn or manga avatars and photos of their houses that are done up like a 7 year old girls idea of home with pink decor and cuddly toys. 

I would say young people are getting more bombarded about their gender more than their sexuality to be honest. Unfortunately this in turn has led to some being “ confused “ about their sexuality as they conflate it with their gender identity . Btw heterosexual younger are also “ bombarded “ with heterosexual lifestyle are they not ? It’s by far the most prominent ideology. I agree with you regarding the trans people on trans who all

seem to be uniform ! White , middle class , blue hair !!! Thin bordering on anarexia , strident in their views , unwilling to debate , zero experience of real life apart from likes on Twitter etc ! 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, Tazio said:

I genuinely worry about there being a mental health crisis of epic proportions in the future. Young people, some very young, are getting bombarded by information from, mostly well meaning, people about sexuality and gender. I have a few friends who are in happy marriages with women who identified as lesbians when they were at university, but to be honest never really acted on it beyond a bit of snogging and fumbling. It just seemed to be a thing back then for young girls that were away from home for the first time and suddenly in a very liberal environment. But it wasn't a thing with an organised support movement that is almost political like the trans movement is now. Being young and a little bit curious about something is perfectly natural and has always gone on in certain environments and often a passing phase. Announcing you're a different gender, and in some cases taking it all the way to surgery is less easy to come back from. 

I'm. very liberal person but something about the oddball trans/non binary extremists doesn't sit right with me at all. You see these odd types on Twitter and and the like with this very bizarre idea of feminine. Unicorn or manga avatars and photos of their houses that are done up like a 7 year old girls idea of home with pink decor and cuddly toys. 

This article is interesting 

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/09/03/the-transgender-delusion/

[Tazio]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I would say young people are getting more bombarded about their gender more than their sexuality to be honest. Unfortunately this in turn has led to some being “ confused “ about their sexuality as they conflate it with their gender identity . Btw heterosexual younger are also “ bombarded “ with heterosexual lifestyle are they not ? It’s by far the most prominent ideology. I agree with you regarding the trans people on trans who all

seem to be uniform ! White , middle class , blue hair !!! Thin bordering on anarexia , strident in their views , unwilling to debate , zero experience of real life apart from likes on Twitter etc ! 

 

I perhaps worded it badly. I meant young people who feel they don't fit into the conventional narrative are "bombarded" which of course isn't the ideal word for it. If they google about not fitting in or speak to people at university or wherever seem to be instantly pointed in certain directions. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Tazio said:

I perhaps worded it badly. I meant young people who feel they don't fit into the conventional narrative are "bombarded" which of course isn't the ideal word for it. If they google about not fitting in or speak to people at university or wherever seem to be instantly pointed in certain directions. 

That’s a slippery slope In thinking then ? Ie are they vulnerable to trans identity or sexuality ? You either are or aren’t but I can see where u are coming from as there has been an enormous rise in young people identifying as trans in the last 20 years ? Why ? Variety of reasons I think but what concerns me as it can be viewed as an easy option for some young gay or lesbian people who struggle with their sexuality . They can just go down the more accepted trans route ( in their skewed mind ) 

[Tazio]

8 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

This article is interesting 

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/09/03/the-transgender-delusion/

Well he's certainly now made himself a certified hate figure to some people. 

[Tazio]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

That’s a slippery slope In thinking then ? Ie are they vulnerable to trans identity or sexuality ? You either are or aren’t but I can see where u are coming from as there has been an enormous rise in young people identifying as trans in the last 20 years ? Why ? Variety of reasons I think but what concerns me as it can be viewed as an easy option for some young gay or lesbian people who struggle with their sexuality . They can just go down the more accepted trans route ( in their skewed mind ) 

It's a very slippery slope indeed, all it takes is one mis-worded sentence in conversation or writing and you are branded a hate figure. I'm a very accepting figure but struggle to just keep up with things now. The gay scene, which of course you know more than me, has always been fond of labels. A lot of it for fun or self deprecating humour, the current in the news bunch seem to be a joy free collection of individuals on the whole. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, Tazio said:

It's a very slippery slope indeed, all it takes is one mis-worded sentence in conversation or writing and you are branded a hate figure. I'm a very accepting figure but struggle to just keep up with things now. The gay scene, which of course you know more than me, has always been fond of labels. A lot of it for fun or self deprecating humour, the current in the news bunch seem to be a joy free collection of individuals on the whole. 

Yes I’ve been maligned , ridiculed etc for my views regarding trans issues and how it is affected and impacting on gay and lesbian movement . I’m probably too “ Old school “ For them or I like to think  I don’t believe in pandering to delusions which Impact on others rights . The new LGB is now infiltrated by trans and they lack any self deprecation humour as you say and will not consider any debate . It’s a bleak future for LGB now I feel since we are tied to the trans lobby for good it seems . 

[Tazio]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Yes I’ve been maligned , ridiculed etc for my views regarding trans issues and how it is affected and impacting on gay and lesbian movement . I’m probably too “ Old school “ For them or I like to think  I don’t believe in pandering to delusions which Impact on others rights . The new LGB is now infiltrated by trans and they lack any self deprecation humour as you say and will not consider any debate . It’s a bleak future for LGB now I feel since we are tied to the trans lobby for good it seems . 

Of course if people didn’t want to have sex some of the arguments would make more sense. I’m sorry but if a bloke declares himself a woman and then says he a lesbian they can’t expect lesbian women to have any sexual connection with them. Yet a lesbian I know was abused on social media as a transphobe for saying publicly she wouldn’t sleep with someone like that. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Tazio said:

Of course if people didn’t want to have sex some of the arguments would make more sense. I’m sorry but if a bloke declares himself a woman and then says he a lesbian they can’t expect lesbian women to have any sexual connection with them. Yet a lesbian I know was abused on social media as a transphobe for saying publicly she wouldn’t sleep with someone like that. 

I got that too when a trans man accused me of being transphobic as I didn’t “ fancy “ him ! I told him to …

 

[CF11JamTart]

35 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

This article is interesting 

 

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/09/03/the-transgender-delusion/

That is a corker, James. 

 

I read recently about some US celeb couple who declared that they were in a queer relationship. One of the two had a penis (and had been brought up as male) and the other had a vagina (and had been brought up as female ... But self-identified as male). 

 

Jeezo..  It's confusing these days. 

[CF11JamTart]

13 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

. It’s a bleak future for LGB now I feel since we are tied to the trans lobby for good it seems . 

 It's dispiriting, but I suspect that you are right. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

30 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

That is a corker, James. 

 

I read recently about some US celeb couple who declared that they were in a queer relationship. One of the two had a penis (and had been brought up as male) and the other had a vagina (and had been brought up as female ... But self-identified as male). 

 

Jeezo..  It's confusing these days. 

Oh tell me ! Absolutely bananas 

[Cade]

I don't even really like that Trans is included in the same bracket as LGB.

It's not a sexual orientation, it's an identity orientation.

 

If a female-to-male trans person is in a relationship with a cis male, does this make them a hetero woman or a gay man?

Or if they are in a relationship with a cis woman, does this make them a lesbian woman or a hetero male?

Some trans are asexual and don't have sex with anyone. So they're not gay or straight.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

I don't even really like that Trans is included in the same bracket as LGB.

It's not a sexual orientation, it's an identity orientation.

 

If a female-to-male trans person is in a relationship with a cis male, does this make them a hetero woman or a gay man?

Or if they are in a relationship with a cis woman, does this make them a lesbian woman or a hetero male?

Some trans are asexual and don't have sex with anyone. So they're not gay or straight.

 

 

Yes there needs to be a separation of trans from LGB 

[Spellczech]

2 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Bizarre rant . You are preaching tolerance and respect  at the beginning of it then your not bothered if you offend anyone regarding pronouns etc ! 

 

Makes perfect sense to me. One should be tolerant of people and their sensibilities, but not necessarily of people's idiosyncracies.

 

I will not change my ways to pander to any pronoun nonsense whether it is the person who has problems with their own pronouns, or some woke idiot who wants to foist all that nonsense upon everyone in some misguided feeling of solidarity, is moot...

Edited September 4, 2021 by Spellczech

[Armageddon]

The women can **** off.

The gender attention seeker can **** off.

The Pink news who run a story thats about poor time keeping rather than transphobia, can **** off.

[Mikey1874]

If I could put it slightly differently, if the SNP/ Green Coalition Government wish to promote trans rights in law then they surely they must address the concerns one by one in detail. Not just to for example use the sacking of Joanna Cheery to send a silent but strong passive-aggressive message. 

 

For example how to handle men self identitying themselves as women to go to a womens prison. Something I understand is happening in Scotland. Basically how women are going to be made safe. Or not safe if that is what is being chosen. And for example how parents are to deal with children asking for surgery. Get it all out in the open. 

 

Not just to dismiss concerns as transphobia. A proper open debate.

 

Not to use legitimate concerns about trans people being excluded or victimised to close down all questions. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

9 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

If I could put it slightly differently, if the SNP/ Green Coalition Government wish to promote trans rights in law then they surely they must address the concerns one by one in detail. Not just to for example use the sacking of Joanna Cheery to send a silent but strong passive-aggressive message. 

 

For example how to handle men self identitying themselves as women to go to a womens prison. Something I understand is happening in Scotland. Basically how women are going to be made safe. Or not safe if that is what is being chosen. And for example how parents are to deal with children asking for surgery. Get it all out in the open. 

 

Not just to dismiss concerns as transphobia. A proper open debate.

 

Not to use legitimate concerns about trans people being excluded or victimised to close down all questions. 

“ a proper open debate “ 

 

 

[CF11JamTart]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58453250

 

Specifically...

 

"The tribunal heard that a number of staff brought concerns to Ms Appleby. The concerns included the high numbers of children being referred to Gids, and "a worry that some young children are being actively encouraged to be transgender without effective scrutiny of their circumstances". "

 

 

I suppose one of my concerns is that boys who are interested in stuff that are was typically perceived as " girls' stuff" and vice versa get tagged as being trapped in the wrong body, and end up on some systemised process to reassign gender. 

 

I thought that we were meant to be in a society where it was more fluid... Kids could do what they fancied, regardless of their sex... football, sewing, climbing, baking... Whatever.. With those old stereotypes gone. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by CF11JamTart
Typos

[EH11_2NL]

22 hours ago, CF11JamTart said:

 

I get your general point, but it's not about sexuality. It's about the extent to which someone born with a penis / a vagina (and assigned male / female sex at birth) can declare themselves as a different gender and get any specific "privileges" associated with that gender. (use of women's bogs, being on all-women shortlists, competing in a women's amateur rugby team). 

 

And presumably your employer doesn't actively encourage you to be specific about pronouns on your email signatures. (I'm "he/his"). 

Hud oan! Your employer makes you sign your emails with He/His???? Seriously? Wow, just wow!

[Tazio]

1 minute ago, EH11_2NL said:

Hud oan! Your employer makes you sign your emails with He/His???? Seriously? Wow, just wow!

It's becoming very common.

[CF11JamTart]

30 minutes ago, EH11_2NL said:

Hud oan! Your employer makes you sign your emails with He/His???? Seriously? Wow, just wow!

 Actively encourages... 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, CF11JamTart said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58453250

 

Specifically...

 

"The tribunal heard that a number of staff brought concerns to Ms Appleby. The concerns included the high numbers of children being referred to Gids, and "a worry that some young children are being actively encouraged to be transgender without effective scrutiny of their circumstances". "

 

 

I suppose one of my concerns is that boys who are interested in stuff that are was typically perceived as " girls' stuff" and vice versa get tagged as being trapped in the wrong body, and end up on some systemised process to reassign gender. 

 

I thought that we were meant to be in a society where it was more fluid... Kids could do what they fancied, regardless of their sex... football, sewing, climbing, baking... Whatever.. With those old stereotypes gone. 

This is a massive issue . The trans lobby are actually re in forcing gay and lesbian stereotypes by stating that gay boys who may like pink anc dresses are probably females !  Nope they are just gay lads who like that . Unfortunately the more vulnerable kids may feel they are indeed “ born in the wrong body “ and start down the transition route 

[EH11_2NL]

On 05/09/2021 at 08:00, CF11JamTart said:

 Actively encourages... 

SMFH . Thankfully this level of woke, virtue signalling snowflakery hasn't reached here yet. And if you know anything about the Caribbean, never will.

[manaliveits105]

On 03/09/2021 at 21:30, JamesM48 said:

Yes she’s fighting the good fight for women’s sex based rights , even though it means she’s in conflict with Sturgeon who was roundly booed outside Parliament by a bunch of feminists . She’s on the wrong side of history with this debate and it may cost her a lot of votes ( Sturgeon ) . Basically a traitor to biological women 

Wait !

Sturgeon is a biological woman ??

no woman would walk like that in stilettos surely .

[JudyJudyJudy]

21 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Wait !

Sturgeon is a biological woman ??

no woman would walk like that in stilettos surely .

Sorry I should assume someone’s sex or gender ! 😂

[CF11JamTart]

14 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Sorry I should assume someone’s sex or gender ! 😂

Tap-dancing in a minefield, James

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

Tap-dancing in a minefield, James

I meant I “ Shouldn’t “ lol 😂 

[JudyJudyJudy]

13 minutes ago, jonesy said:

 

I’m not even sure Sturgeon is biological. Just a wee nippy robot designed as a practical joke by Limmy.

I’m sure if he had invented her she would have some sense of humour , somewhere ? She is devoid of it . 

[Doctor FinnBarr]

On 04/09/2021 at 02:24, JamesM48 said:

Yes I saw that earlier . Turns out that   “ she” has had convictions before for this type of thing . A real

creep. The Guardian who ran a shocking article a few months ago against the Crowd outsides and almost supporting this person need To hang their heads in Shame . Even today their headline was a “ person” was charged and not he or she . There are also plenty of militant trans supporters with egg on their face too with this not unsurprising turn of events . Some incredibly still supporting the person ! 

 

What the hell are we meant to call them James? At 60 I'm getting awfy confused now, pro something, pre op males. Head is going into the sand for me with a set of those tra la la ears.

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 hours ago, FinnBarr Saunders said:

 

What the hell are we meant to call them James? At 60 I'm getting awfy confused now, pro something, pre op males. Head is going into the sand for me with a set of those tra la la ears.

Oh I wouldn’t worry mate it’ll all change in a few years time again. It’ll be like it was one luscious ideological nightmare about pronouns and women’s safety in their safe spaces wull be restored ! 👍

[JudyJudyJudy]

[JudyJudyJudy]

[Sarah O]

35 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yay! Equality! 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Sarah O said:

Yay! Equality! 

 I know . Seriously f@@@@@ up 

[indianajones]

1 hour ago, Sarah O said:

Yay! Equality! 

 

Second round?! Must be absolutely pish. 

[Beni]

I see The Lancet have caused a bit of a stooshie with an article about menstruation, by describing the group formerly known as women, as "bodies with vaginas".

 

[Des Lynam]

8 minutes ago, Beni said:

I see The Lancet have caused a bit of a stooshie with an article about menstruation, by describing the group formerly known as women, as "bodies with vaginas".

 

 

 

It’s utter madness. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, Beni said:

I see The Lancet have caused a bit of a stooshie with an article about menstruation, by describing the group formerly known as women, as "bodies with vaginas".

 

It really is absolutely disgusting way to talk about biological women . 

[Tazio]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

It really is absolutely disgusting way to talk about biological women . 

I remember as a youngster some more radical gay rights people used to refer to heterosexual people as “breeders”. Now it’s the official groups and scientists that are unexpectedly sliding towards using it to describe people. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Tazio said:

I remember as a youngster some more radical gay rights people used to refer to heterosexual people as “breeders”. Now it’s the official groups and scientists that are unexpectedly sliding towards using it to describe people. 

Yes it was a very derogatory term for heterosexual people used by the more militant gays really . Now “ breeders “ is another awful term In gay culture . 

[CF11JamTart]

On 11/09/2021 at 18:08, JamesM48 said:

Love that, James. 

 

Nice one. 

 

(got a daughter who's in to drumming, climbing, building dens, etc). 

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 minutes ago, CF11JamTart said:

Love that, James. 

 

Nice one. 

 

(got a daughter who's in to drumming, climbing, building dens, etc). 

Yes it’s a smart comment regarding the stereotyping of boys and girls . There have always been “tomboys “ or camp lads . Now it seems that they may just be trans ! Ludicrous 

[Mikey1874]

I always support people fighting injustice, prejudice, discrimination. 

 

Trans people seem to be a group who have had these things happen. 

 

But I say (my advice to anyone who might ask) don't be a victim. You don't need clever words to define you or special arrangements to be happy. 

 

And other people - in this case women concerned about their safety - have a right to define their own reality too. 

[Beni]

27 minutes ago, jonesy said:

That's a mock-up/photoshop, right?

 

 

Wrong. The Lancet put that up on Twitter, so maybe they were looking to make a few waves . Here's a fuller version and the article link. You need to create an account to read it 

 

Historically, the anatomy and physiology of bodies with vaginas have been neglected—for example, the paucity in understanding of endometriosis and the way women's pain has been seen as more likely to have an emotional or psychological cause, a hangover from centuries of theorising about hysteria. This exhibition and the Vagina Museum as a whole aim to redress this lack of attention. 

 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)01962-0/fulltext?rss=yes

[JudyJudyJudy]

30 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Remember when the lad from Suede said he was bisexual but just had never had a homosexual experience? https://www.contactmusic.com/brett-anderson/news/anderson-im-bisexual

 

Maybe that's where we are now? Everyone is transgender, only some of us have never had a transitionary experience. At least this way the transgenderagendaists sort of win, while the rest of us might get some bloody peace.

Dearie me ! How can you claim to be bi but not do the practical bit ! ? 😂sounds like attention seeking to me . I had another argument the other day on the “ Pink news “ Facebook about a person stating they were “ pan sexual” so I said “ so your basically what used to be called “ bi sexual “  . She wasn’t happy about this .  They just want to be seen as different and most people don’t give a flying duck 🦆 

[JudyJudyJudy]

39 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Remember when the lad from Suede said he was bisexual but just had never had a homosexual experience? https://www.contactmusic.com/brett-anderson/news/anderson-im-bisexual

 

Maybe that's where we are now? Everyone is transgender, only some of us have never had a transitionary experience. At least this way the transgenderagendaists sort of win, while the rest of us might get some bloody peace.

Actually when you think if it we are all half man and half woman really !