Craig Levein joins Brechin

[Riccarton3]

Put his own comfort ahead of the club time and time again through stubbornness and pig headedness. Can't be told anything which will be interesting in an advisory role. 

[jamboozy]

1 hour ago, Debut 4 said:

Imo, all this anger towards him and people changing theirs minds about whether they like him or not, wouldn’t have happened if Budge did her job at the appropriate time. It’s that simple , imo.

 

If there’s a period which highlights why having a leader who admits to having no clue to running a team is so damaging, it was the last 3 years or so.

 

If him and his set up were emptied much earlier we’d probably be remembering him more fondly and appreciating his efforts “but it wasn’t to be, good luck, all the best”.  
 

It dragged on and the dislike got stronger, the suspicions got stronger, more questions got raised on how the club was being run.  It was a shambles she allowed. 

 

 

Enjoyed reading this, closer to how I feel about the situation with CL , Budge and the fans.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Riccarton3 said:

Put his own comfort ahead of the club time and time again through stubbornness and pig headedness. Can't be told anything which will be interesting in an advisory role. 

 

There are plenty of things to talk about when it comes to Levein, but I'll never slag someone in football for backing themselves all the way. Whether you like them or not, whether you rate them or not, self belief is crucial in sport and management.

Not sure you have a clear picture of the flow of information in an advisory role by the way!
 

[martoon]

Did not know that Brechin City were formed after the amalgamation of clubs called Brechin Harps and Brechin Hearts.

 

That's my pointless factoid for the day.

 

 

 

 

[Class of 75]

2 hours ago, Thomaso said:

He was only a “Hearts man” because he has had no where else to go as a player or manager.

As a player he would have been off like a shot to the first big team who came calling if he (tragically) had not done his knee in, meaning he would never if passed a medical.

He was the Manager at the mighty Cowdenbeath when the Pieman plucked him from obscurity, and again was off like a shot when the first “big” team came calling!

He then became a “Hearts man” again when he was a dead man walking in Scottish football when Budge was naive or daft enough to swallow his revolutionary plan and ended up giving him the run of our club to disastrous consequences.

Levein has never been a “Hearts man” in the real sense - he is a “Levein man” end of!

 

Totally agree. Never cared for the club and had he had any shred of dignity would have walked after the Livingston result. An absolute charlatan who should still be brought to task over his running of the football club. Blames everyone else for the mess at Hearts. He spent alot of fan's hard earned cash on overpaid overage mercenaries and 'projects' in an effort to make him appear some sort of footballing guru. Would be happy if he never walks through our doors again. 

Edited June 5, 2021 by Class of 75

[Riccarton3]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

There are plenty of things to talk about when it comes to Levein, but I'll never slag someone in football for backing themselves all the way. Whether you like them or not, whether you rate them or not, self belief is crucial in sport and management.

Not sure you have a clear picture of the flow of information in an advisory role by the way!
 

Yeah I get your point re the advisory role. Will be in his element.  I guess I was thinking about him dealing with feedback

 

 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Riccarton3 said:

Yeah I get your point re the advisory role. Will be in his element.  I guess I was thinking about him dealing with feedback

 

 

 

 I'm sure we'd all pay to see that

[Riccarton3]

12 minutes ago, martoon said:

Did not know that Brechin City were formed after the amalgamation of clubs called Brechin Harps and Brechin Hearts.

 

That's my pointless factoid for the day.

 

 

 

 

Hadn't realised they were not formed till the 50s

[Unknown user]

12 minutes ago, martoon said:

Did not know that Brechin City were formed after the amalgamation of clubs called Brechin Harps and Brechin Hearts.

 

That's my pointless factoid for the day.

 

 

 

 

Disgusting isn't it?

[The Real Maroonblood]

15 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Totally agree. Never cared for the club and had he had any shred of dignity would have walked after the Livingston result. An absolute charlatan who should still be brought to task over his running of the football club. Blames everyone else for the mess at Hearts. He spent alot of fan's hard earned cash on overpaid overage mercenaries and 'projects' in an effort to make him appear some sort of footballing guru. Would be happy if he never walks through our doors again. 

[Des Lynam]

5 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Yeah I get your point re the advisory role. Will be in his element.  I guess I was thinking about him dealing with feedback

 

 

Craig Levein answers the webs most searched questions.....

 

Imagine the hits! 
 

 

[Riccarton3]

20 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Totally agree. Never cared for the club and had he had any shred of dignity would have walked after the Livingston result. An absolute charlatan who should still be brought to task over his running of the football club. Blames everyone else for the mess at Hearts. He spent alot of fan's hard earned cash on overpaid overage mercenaries and 'projects' in an effort to make him appear some sort of footballing guru. Would be happy if he never walks through our doors again. 

From agents to players to coaches.....all at Craig comfort. Individuals in all 3areas could promote Hearts interests positively but maybe not quite be Craig's cup of tea. Similar will Budge. Comfort first, Hearts second. 

[151]

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

 

 

Didn't see him as a player as I have stated numerous times.

[Unknown user]

Just now, 151 said:

Didn't see him as a player as I have stated numerous times.

 

He was still a Hearts player though, I promise it happened

[151]

1 hour ago, Costanza said:

Seriously? I find it hard to believe a Hearts fan would forget the season of the 5-1, 2-1 and 4-4 derbies.

He was relatively successfully as manager first time around but yes, a complete disaster the second time.

You can argue the second point without trying to pretend there weren't any highlights the first time around.

 

I literally referenced the early 00's in my post. 

 

So he won derbies as manager? That's fantastic it really is. So did Neilson. So did Laszlo. So did pretty much any body whos ever managed the club.

 

None done as much damage as oor CL has.  

[151]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

He was still a Hearts player though, I promise it happened

 

Your not getting my point. But ok mate cool.

 

Defending Levein unbelievable scenes. Some folk just don't know what's good for the club.

[151]

3 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

Don’t know what age you are but I doubt you have seen many better players in a maroon jersey than Levein at his peak. 

 

32. 

 

I remember seeing Robertson as a young boy. I remember Cameron, Fulton, Hamilton and Adam running riot. McCann ripping defences to bits. I remember Stamp, Valois, De Vries ripping Hibs to bits. And of course we have Skacel, Naismith, Souttar, Webster, Pressley, Fyssas, Fuller. A handful of those players won trophies at the club, and the other handful achieved so much more than just with Hearts in their career.

 

If Levein is/was better than all of those players above, in their peak, then fair enough. Looks like we had the Scottish Nesta.

[John Findlay]

4 minutes ago, 151 said:

 

32. 

 

I remember seeing Robertson as a young boy. I remember Cameron, Fulton, Hamilton and Adam running riot. McCann ripping defences to bits. I remember Stamp, Valois, De Vries ripping Hibs to bits. And of course we have Skacel, Naismith, Souttar, Webster, Pressley, Fyssas, Fuller. A handful of those players won trophies at the club, and the other handful achieved so much more than just with Hearts in their career.

 

If Levein is/was better than all of those players above, in their peak, then fair enough. Looks like we had the Scottish Nesta.

You are a lucky young man. I'm 58.

You were fortunate not to see Hearts between 1977-1983.

[Des Lynam]

4 minutes ago, 151 said:

 

32. 

 

I remember seeing Robertson as a young boy. I remember Cameron, Fulton, Hamilton and Adam running riot. McCann ripping defences to bits. I remember Stamp, Valois, De Vries ripping Hibs to bits. And of course we have Skacel, Naismith, Souttar, Webster, Pressley, Fyssas, Fuller. A handful of those players won trophies at the club, and the other handful achieved so much more than just with Hearts in their career.

 

If Levein is/was better than all of those players above, in their peak, then fair enough. Looks like we had the Scottish Nesta.

Maldini. 
 

Craig was an unbelievable player. Classy and cultured. Robbo for obvious reasons is my favourite player but Craig is right up there. 

[Unknown user]

12 minutes ago, 151 said:

 

Your not getting my point. But ok mate cool.

 

Defending Levein unbelievable scenes. Some folk just don't know what's good for the club.

 

I'm not defending him at all, I'm pointing out that if you say you won't slag a Hearts player for not winning trophies, but still slag Craig Levein for not winning trophies, you'll raise a few eyebrows.

[Costanza]

14 minutes ago, 151 said:

 

I literally referenced the early 00's in my post. 

 

So he won derbies as manager? That's fantastic it really is. So did Neilson. So did Laszlo. So did pretty much any body whos ever managed the club.

 

None done as much damage as oor CL has.  

Those games were 2002 and January 2003 😄

I'm not disagreeing or defending his record second time around as anything other than damaging and disastrous but this blithe dismissal of his playing career (is John Colquhoun a loser?) and first managerial spell is bizarre.

[martoon]

49 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Disgusting isn't it?

 

Oh, I don't know, Smithee.

 

Peace, love, unity and all that. 

 

Certainly brought the support of Brechin together...all six of them.

[martoon]

Alongside Davy Mac, Levein would still make my personal Hearts XI.

 

Rolls Royce of a central defender. Even after his injury.

 

Last few years have put me right off him but his quality as a player can never be diminished.

[martoon]

58 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Hadn't realised they were not formed till the 50s

 

Nor me.

 

I usually get the four Angus clubs hopelessly mixed up, tbh.

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Oh, I don't know, Smithee.

 

Peace, love, unity and all that. 

 

Certainly brought the support of Brechin together...all six of them.

 

Well it gives me the willies, and not the good ones either

 

1 minute ago, martoon said:

Alongside Davy Mac, Levein would still make my personal Hearts XI.

 

Rolls Royce of a central defender. Even after his injury.

 

Last few years have put me right off him but his quality as a player can never be diminished.

 

He was magnificent, great in the air, great defending on the ground, he had pace, height, he was good with the ball at his feet, confident enough to bring the ball out and make passes and he was fearless. A downright dirty ******* at times too. I loved Levein the player.

[Boab]

44 minutes ago, 151 said:

 

32. 

 

I remember seeing Robertson as a young boy. I remember Cameron, Fulton, Hamilton and Adam running riot. McCann ripping defences to bits. I remember Stamp, Valois, De Vries ripping Hibs to bits. And of course we have Skacel, Naismith, Souttar, Webster, Pressley, Fyssas, Fuller. A handful of those players won trophies at the club, and the other handful achieved so much more than just with Hearts in their career.

 

If Levein is/was better than all of those players above, in their peak, then fair enough. Looks like we had the Scottish Nesta.

All about opinions. You’ve mentioned 16 players. He was better than most of them. The point people are making, though, is if you’re having a go at Levein for not winning anything, have a go at the handful who won nothing.

We did have a player who would have achieved much more but only because of injury.

 

[Riccarton3]

24 minutes ago, Boab said:

All about opinions. You’ve mentioned 16 players. He was better than most of them. The point people are making, though, is if you’re having a go at Levein for not winning anything, have a go at the handful who won nothing.

We did have a player who would have achieved much more but only because of injury.

 

Yes, I don't know if the poster realises the won nothing patter has its origins doon Easter Road where winning nothing came easily and isnt even up for discussion cos so.many were not even close. When you get close it becomes relevant.

 

Still an arsehole, though, Levein, capped for country, managed country. But if he's a failure he must be being marked harsher than a lot of others

Edited June 5, 2021 by Riccarton3

[Riccarton3]

47 minutes ago, martoon said:

 

Nor me.

 

I usually get the four Angus clubs hopelessly mixed up, tbh.

Got a bit of an affection for Arbroath. Nothing to do with 7 nil on Christmas Eve. Think its just the name and location or remembering some old chewing gum cards from he 70s. It's always Arbroath.

[martoon]

11 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Got a bit of an affection for Arbroath. Nothing to do with 7 nil on Christmas Eve. Think its just the name and location or remembering some old chewing gum cards from he 70s. It's always Arbroath.

 

I remember the 0-7 and was at the last day promotion clincher up there. 

 

Recall going to a League Cup tie at Glebe Park in the 90's. Narrow win which might have gone to extra time.

 

Think that's about it for me in Angus.

[Beni]

1 hour ago, Riccarton3 said:

From agents to players to coaches.....all at Craig comfort. Individuals in all 3areas could promote Hearts interests positively but maybe not quite be Craig's cup of tea. Similar will Budge. Comfort first, Hearts second. 

 

I think comfort first is a good description of Budge's tenure, which is partly why Levein was able to wrap her round his finger.

However with Levein the word I'd use is Machiavellian, because in 6 years he didn't recruit anyone who might challenge his opinion or authority.

It was the Craig Levein show from the off, with everyone else relegated to being bit part players.

After Cathro's failure when Budge rightly questioned his bootroom philosophy of using young inexperienced coaches, rather than allow someone into the club with the experience and authority to rival his, he talked his way to omnipotence in the football department.

You have to admire him for using a failure on his part to increase his powerbase, especially with Budge later admitting she'd made him manager against her better judgement.

His ego was never going to allow him to resign, but Budge keeping her head in the sand as long as she did meant the long term damage was much worse than it needed to be.

I won't waste any energy hating him, but I'll never respect him either.

 

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, spacerjoe said:

 

I don't really blame Levein for that. The club, and ultimately Budge, are responsible for not sacking him.

 

Managers only quit when they are:

A. Going somewhere else, or

B. Feel they are not being supported by the club and don't want to look responsible for bad results

C. Physically unable to do the job anymore.

 

You can say that he, being a Hearts man, should have walked for the good of the team, but if he genuinely believed that he could turn it around, why would he want to do that? Rather than take the hit on the flop, he piled more in on the turn.

 

He, like many of our fans, held on to that early run of wins as evidence he could make it work, and simply blamed injuries for our downfall. He would have been thinking 'I'm so close to getting back to that winning formula again', even when things were shit.

 

The cup final would have blinded the board again, and given him more false hope.

 

Just like Abramhovic did with Lampard though after early promise turned into a bad run, she should have canned him before we got near the cup final.

 

I'm not saying he was right to stay; just that it should not have been his call to make.

Maybe the DoF or the board could’ve done it, oh wait. 
He inveigled his way into every aspect of the football side but still hasn’t taken any blame. He should never have been given the managers job or been listened too with his many excuses. 
But as you say that’s all on Budge. 

[151]

2 hours ago, Costanza said:

Those games were 2002 and January 2003 😄

I'm not disagreeing or defending his record second time around as anything other than damaging and disastrous but this blithe dismissal of his playing career (is John Colquhoun a loser?) and first managerial spell is bizarre.

 

Unless im horrendously mistaken, 2002 and 2003 are early 00's.

 

The reason i'm dismissing his playing career is because I didn't see it so can't comment really other than the fact he won **** all.

[Lone Striker]

5 hours ago, Thomaso said:

He was only a “Hearts man” because he has had no where else to go as a player or manager.

As a player he would have been off like a shot to the first big team who came calling if he (tragically) had not done his knee in, meaning he would never if passed a medical.

He was the Manager at the mighty Cowdenbeath when the Pieman plucked him from obscurity, and again was off like a shot when the first “big” team came calling!

He then became a “Hearts man” again when he was a dead man walking in Scottish football when Budge was naive or daft enough to swallow his revolutionary plan and ended up giving him the run of our club to disastrous consequences.

Levein has never been a “Hearts man” in the real sense - he is a “Levein man” end of!

 

Aren't you re-writing history a bit there ? Or at least describing some events in a biased negative way ?   

 

Nowhere else to go as a player ?   A regular Scotland international.    I've  no idea if clubs were trying to buy him or not, but if he'd wanted to try his luck in England, surely he could have got his agent on to it.     Perhaps he has quite happy in a good era for Hearts, playing alongside other top players.  Maybe he felt loyalty to Hearts that Alex & Sandy spotted his potential at Cowdenbeath and helped him to become a Scotland international.   

 

Pieman "plucked" him from Cowden because he'd just sacked a Hearts legend and took a gamble on another one. It paid off.   He also had to rebuild the team when half the 98 cup team started leaving.

 

Off like a shot when a big team came calling ?  More like he saw what was coming down the track with Romanov taking over - if he'd stayed on, Romanov would have made sure he went "off like a shot".  Just ask George Burley.

 

As for his time with Budge, surely you realise that she desperately needed an experienced football man to deal with all the stuff she knew nothing about when she agreed to the Bidco thing ?  Did she ask anyone else ? I've no idea, but CL had plenty experience so it's hardly something to beat either of them up about 

 

You've slated him for having loyalty as a player, then slated him for having no loyalty as a manager, then slated him for having loyalty to help Budge.   

 

FWIW, I agree with the general sentiment that time (plus his failure as Scotland manager) seemed to have changed his character to something quite objectionable, which came to the fore in 2017.

 

[151]

2 hours ago, Boab said:

All about opinions. You’ve mentioned 16 players. He was better than most of them. The point people are making, though, is if you’re having a go at Levein for not winning anything, have a go at the handful who won nothing.

We did have a player who would have achieved much more but only because of injury.

 

 

I was having a go at Levein for the damage he has done to Hearts. The fact he is a loser is what brought on the talk about him not winning anything. Therefore, the others do not merit a go in the discussion just because they 'won **** all'. The point everyone is making and the thread is making is that a man who supposedly has the best interests of our club at Heart systematically destroyed any hope of the supposed 5 year plan and has now joined a side who actively tried to see us kicked while we were down.

 

 

[Boab]

13 minutes ago, 151 said:

 

I was having a go at Levein for the damage he has done to Hearts. The fact he is a loser is what brought on the talk about him not winning anything. Therefore, the others do not merit a go in the discussion just because they 'won **** all'. The point everyone is making and the thread is making is that a man who supposedly has the best interests of our club at Heart systematically destroyed any hope of the supposed 5 year plan and has now joined a side who actively tried to see us kicked while we were down.

 

 

You said he was a one of a kind loser. 
He wasn’t !

Some of the players you quoted had similar success as CL. 
You also brought up his lack of success as a player as an argument to prove your point.

Don’t try and move the goalposts now.

Don’t mention his playing career and you won’t get any arguments about his last tenure as manager.

[151]

4 minutes ago, Boab said:

You said he was a one of a kind loser. 
He wasn’t !

Some of the players you quoted had similar success as CL. 
You also brought up his lack of success as a player as an argument to prove your point.

Don’t try and move the goalposts now.

Don’t mention his playing career and you won’t get any arguments about his last tenure as manager.

 

I'm not moving any goal posts  

 

I said the guys won nothing in football. Nothing. After dedicating his entire life to the game. 

 

The players I quoted had nothing to do with the argument  they were in response to a poster who made out we had the best defender the worlds ever seen but unfortunately an injury stopped him from winning the Balon d'or.

 

They may have only had similar successes but they didn't have the arrogance and snideyness about them that Levein did - and none of them almost crippled the club through sheer stubbornness. They also haven't then went on to achieve such feats of loserness (if that can be coined as a term) in management.

 

Look, the argument seems to fall into two categories on here about Levein - those who seen him as a player and hold onto nostalgia, and those who seen him in management. First time round had its "successes", second time was horrendous. 

 

I don't want to argue any more as my points are being twisted - some of the things folk are saying I used in my argument were just quotes to other posters about a separate topic. 

 

The man knows nothing but losing. That is fine for some people, the almost men. He will end up a punter in a boozer talking about that one time he won a header in a big game or something.

[Thomaso]

7 hours ago, soonbe110 said:

His comment that Levein was ‘a loser as a player’ was what I was responding to. That comment couldn’t be further from the truth so I didn’t really read much more of his post. 

Sorry that is the hard truth. As you said there were reasons but I’m afraid Levein won nothing as a player. 🤷‍♂️

[Thomaso]

6 hours ago, Boab said:

It’s his summation of him that I, and others, have of him that’s off as far I’m concerned. 
If he was a loser then so was most of the 85-86 team. Majority won hee haw. Are they open to criticism because they won nothing in the game ?

People can criticise his last tenure as manager all they want as there is plenty criticism there but slagging a Hearts player because he won nothing ?

Jeez, where do we start ? Or stop ?

Hard fact - Levein and the 85/86 won nothing apart from our support and admiration that had they came so close.

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Lone Striker said:

Aren't you re-writing history a bit there ? Or at least describing some events in a biased negative way ?   

 

Nowhere else to go as a player ?   A regular Scotland international.    I've  no idea if clubs were trying to buy him or not, but if he'd wanted to try his luck in England, surely he could have got his agent on to it.     Perhaps he has quite happy in a good era for Hearts, playing alongside other top players.  Maybe he felt loyalty to Hearts that Alex & Sandy spotted his potential at Cowdenbeath and helped him to become a Scotland international.   

 

Pieman "plucked" him from Cowden because he'd just sacked a Hearts legend and took a gamble on another one. It paid off.   He also had to rebuild the team when half the 98 cup team started leaving.

 

Off like a shot when a big team came calling ?  More like he saw what was coming down the track with Romanov taking over - if he'd stayed on, Romanov would have made sure he went "off like a shot".  Just ask George Burley.

 

As for his time with Budge, surely you realise that she desperately needed an experienced football man to deal with all the stuff she knew nothing about when she agreed to the Bidco thing ?  Did she ask anyone else ? I've no idea, but CL had plenty experience so it's hardly something to beat either of them up about 

 

You've slated him for having loyalty as a player, then slated him for having no loyalty as a manager, then slated him for having loyalty to help Budge.   

 

FWIW, I agree with the general sentiment that time (plus his failure as Scotland manager) seemed to have changed his character to something quite objectionable, which came to the fore in 2017.

 

Wow! And you accuse me of re- writing history! Levein couldn’t have put a better spin on events himself! 😂

[Riccarton3]

4 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Sorry that is the hard truth. As you said there were reasons but I’m afraid Levein won nothing as a player. 🤷‍♂️

Along with thousands of players.in a country where 2 teams dominate massively. In England's top flight how many players are losers if the sole  measure of success is a trophy? There are so many players don't make it. To play at the top level in Scotland and play for your country (sorry no WC medal). Still an arseho!e but I sense hate is blinding some from any sense of perspective.

[Costanza]

1 hour ago, 151 said:

 

Unless im horrendously mistaken, 2002 and 2003 are early 00's.

 

The reason i'm dismissing his playing career is because I didn't see it so can't comment really other than the fact he won **** all.

Aye but you remember the European games in the early 00s but not the derbies, despite thAye but you remember the European games in the early 00s but not the derbies, despite them all being live on TV. Hmmm....

I just think it's poor to dismiss a guys playing career because he didn't win any trophies.

On that basis, Scott Robinson ranks higher than Levein and Colquhoun.

Anyway,  we can agree on his second managerial spell but we're not going to agree before that.

[Lone Striker]

3 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Along with thousands of players.in a country where 2 teams dominate massively. In England's top flight how many players are losers if the sole  measure of success is a trophy? There are so many players don't make it. To play at the top level in Scotland and play for your country (sorry no WC medal). Still an arseho!e but I sense hate is blinding some from any sense of perspective.

T'would appear so.  Some bizarre stuff appearing on this thread recently .....

[151]

7 minutes ago, Costanza said:

Aye but you remember the European games in the early 00s but not the derbies, despite thAye but you remember the European games in the early 00s but not the derbies, despite them all being live on TV. Hmmm....

I just think it's poor to dismiss a guys playing career because he didn't win any trophies.

On that basis, Scott Robinson ranks higher than Levein and Colquhoun.

Anyway,  we can agree on his second managerial spell but we're not going to agree before that.

 

I didn't dismiss his playing career because he didn't win any trophies though, i dismissed it because I can't comment on it as I didn't witness it. I really don't know why you can't understand that. 

 

And again as i've already stated (yawn), if you are measuring a Hearts managers derby record as a success then even Laszlo is up there, as I am fairly certain a managerless Hearts would go to Easter Road and beat that mob. Which is why I referenced his European runs of the early 00's as one of my memories.

 

Wow. Not sure how many times I can cover the point I was trying to make. 

 

Use Scott Robinson as an example if you want but he isn't a manager yet, hasn't ripped the club apart for a season because of sheer stubborness and isn't an arrogant tosser who quite frankly has absolutely **** all to be arrogant about.

Edited June 5, 2021 by 151
And just to be clear, in terms of football successes Scott Robinson IS more succesful than Levein. Just because you like Levein doesn't change that fact.

[Riccarton3]

1 minute ago, Lone Striker said:

T'would appear so.  Some bizarre stuff appearing on this thread recently .....

Plenty players NOWHERE NEAR a trophy. Them's the breaks eh? There must be levels of losers but it seems if you get close you are more of a loser. Fantastic stuff.

[Thomaso]

12 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Along with thousands of players.in a country where 2 teams dominate massively. In England's top flight how many players are losers if the sole  measure of success is a trophy? There are so many players don't make it. To play at the top level in Scotland and play for your country (sorry no WC medal). Still an arseho!e but I sense hate is blinding some from any sense of perspective.

I appreciate that the “loser” tag is harsh for a player of Levein’s quality however he has won nothing as a player or a Manager. That is a fact, not an opinion based on any sense of hate.

[Boab]

1 hour ago, 151 said:

 

I'm not moving any goal posts  

 

I said the guys won nothing in football. Nothing. After dedicating his entire life to the game. 

 

The players I quoted had nothing to do with the argument  they were in response to a poster who made out we had the best defender the worlds ever seen but unfortunately an injury stopped him from winning the Balon d'or.

 

They may have only had similar successes but they didn't have the arrogance and snideyness about them that Levein did - and none of them almost crippled the club through sheer stubbornness. They also haven't then went on to achieve such feats of loserness (if that can be coined as a term) in management.

 

Look, the argument seems to fall into two categories on here about Levein - those who seen him as a player and hold onto nostalgia, and those who seen him in management. First time round had its "successes", second time was horrendous. 

 

I don't want to argue any more as my points are being twisted - some of the things folk are saying I used in my argument were just quotes to other posters about a separate topic. 

 

The man knows nothing but losing. That is fine for some people, the almost men. He will end up a punter in a boozer talking about that one time he won a header in a big game or something.

You said he was a loser and won nothing. Then you say you’re not dismissing his playing career as you never seen any of it.

It doesn’t make any sense, mate.

I’m away out in the sun, get yourself a beer !

👍

[Riccarton3]

1 minute ago, Thomaso said:

I appreciate that the “loser” tag is harsh for a player of Levein’s quality however he has won nothing as a player or a Manager. That is a fact, not an opinion based on any sense of hate.

The loser tag is juvenile. For the fans. Banter for the five a sides. Banter for a session in the boozer. Professionals, actual people in the game, might disagree and knowing how hard the game can be, how luck is a huge part, I know I am right. 

[Costanza]

10 minutes ago, 151 said:

 

I didn't dismiss his playing career because he didn't win any trophies though, i dismissed it because I can't comment on it as I didn't witness it. I really don't know why you can't understand that. 

 

And again as i've already stated (yawn), if you are measuring a Hearts managers derby record as a success then even Laszlo is up there, as I am fairly certain a managerless Hearts would go to Easter Road and beat that mob. Which is why I referenced his European runs of the early 00's as one of my memories.

 

Wow. Not sure how many times I can cover the point I was trying to make. 

 

Use Scott Robinson as an example if you want but he isn't a manager yet, hasn't ripped the club apart for a season because of sheer stubborness and isn't an arrogant tosser who quite frankly has absolutely **** all to be arrogant about.

"A loser as a player" = I didn't dismiss his playing career 🤔

 

PS - I didn't say I liked Levein. I blame him almost entirely for the underperformance and wasted millions of the last 5 years.

[151]

9 minutes ago, Boab said:

You said he was a loser and won nothing. Then you say you’re not dismissing his playing career as you never seen any of it.

It doesn’t make any sense, mate.

I’m away out in the sun, get yourself a beer !

👍

 

Not drank in 4 years or something now mate but I am currently enjoying a bit of the sun. He is a loser and hasn't won anything. I dismissed his playing career based on not seeing it however the facts still remain that even as a player he won nothing. Makes perfect sense.

[151]

4 minutes ago, Costanza said:

"A loser as a player" = I didn't dismiss his playing career 🤔

 

PS - I didn't say I liked Levein. I blame him almost entirely for the underperformance and wasted millions of the last 5 years.

 

At least we can agree on something. Man should be nowhere near our club.