*** Scotland Euro 2020 (2021) Thread ( merged) ***

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

I'd go for that bloke at Arbroath.  Very experienced and great personality.

 

Couldn't do worse than everyone since Walter Smith.

To be fair Dick Campbell would’ve given them a much bigger kick up the arse at half time. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Jambo61 said:

Meanwhile, the players could actually learn to control the ball, control their emotions and reactions, maybe, just maybe like a professional sportsman and athlete like..........I don't know, Andy Murray maybe?

They never have up until now but we can only hope, how many times did Robertson have to tell them to calm down in the first game whilst the dummy manager and his nobody assistants stood motionless?

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

To be fair Dick Campbell would’ve given them a much bigger kick up the arse at half time. 

Another Scottish dinosaur is the last thing we need. 

[132goals1958]

23 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I listened to Souness earlier and he was bang on IMO. It didn’t work in the first half and all we had was a wee 5 minutes spell  before half time when we scored and rattled them. We should have gone narrow 3-4-3 second half and pressed higher up the pitch. Modric playing that high needed to be man marked. At No stage of the game did we press their deep possession, that’s essential against a footballing team of that quality. 
 

When you get the likes of Collins Souness and Brown universally agreeing we got it wrong tactically you need to sit up and question whether Clarke is wise enough for this level of football, especially given our limitations and options and weaknesses.

 

I thought we ended up looking quite naive and a bit amateurish to be honest 

 

Absolutely . I was hoping we could see out the first half only 1 goal down and then re group and re shape.The equaliser felt like a get out of jail card which looked to mesmerise Clarke in preserving the status qua rather than being pro active.

 

[Bongo 1874]

9 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Because it would be in his contract that he can only do his current job, as much as I hate them it’s a huge job there’s no way he’s going to be allowed to **** off with these donkeys for weeks on end. Especially with over half the squad having Celtic connections. 

Would need to see what he has in his contract, I don't think he does have a massive job next season mate, to be honest they could sell 2-3 players and i reckon they will still piss the league. 

 

4-5 players want out of Celtic massive rebuild job there. 

 

 

[Bongo 1874]

13 minutes ago, Des Lynam said:

I love you Bongo but you’re a lunatic! 

Thanks 😊😂. 

[Bongo 1874]

Steve Clarke needs to go. 

[JackLadd]

57 minutes ago, Central Belt 1874 said:

Not sure how much chat there has been tonight about Steve Clarke on here as I haven't read all the posts  but for me and those I watch Scotland games with, his decision making, team selections and substitutions have been a significant factor in our demise in this tournament.

 

There are a handful of players who just clear as day are not good enough at this level, McKenna, Dykes, O' Donnell and Hendry.

 

Scotland were not great in the three games, but there were enough chances created in each to win each game. 

 

A mixture of poor decision making from manager and players and a failure to take our chances cost us. 

 

Theres a bright future for the national team, but only if there is belief, real belief, in whoever manages us into the next tournament.

 

 

He hampered us from the off by playing Armstrong in a must win game who was as wasteful as he was vs the Czechs. I would have played the more attacking Forrest or Fraser who did more with his 10 mins that Armstrong did with 80 mins. Dykes is not even a good English Championship striker and cannot hack it at this level yet played the full 90 again. Baffling. Likewise the lack of any subs or formation change by Clarke when 2-1 down. Shock of shocks we go 3-1 down and he brings on Fraser and Nisbet and Patterson with 7 mins left. It was like the cavalry showing up when the Indians have already ransacked the homestead and left the scene. Clarke also stuck with his 352 when we clearly needed to push McTominay into midfield to try and create.  Poor from Clareke imo.  Not buying the excuse Croatia are all that either, if you make it easy for them as Clarke did then sure they are going to take the opportunities - like nobody on the back post for the third. Strachan is a pished up little ginger gnome btw.     

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Would need to see what he has in his contract, I don't think he does have a massive job next season mate, to be honest they could sell 2-3 players and i reckon they will still piss the league. 

 

4-5 players want out of Celtic massive rebuild job there. 

 

 

Yeah but you have to know that Rangers wouldn’t allow their manager to lower himself to take this job, the fans wouldn’t be happy either. It’s just a non starter and there’s no reason he would take it anyway. He’s destined for far bigger things and is unlikely to want the pocket change the SFA pay. They despise the SFA/SPFL.

[Bongo 1874]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yeah but you have to know that Rangers wouldn’t allow their manager to lower himself to take this job, the fans wouldn’t be happy either. It’s just a non starter and there’s no reason he would take it anyway. He’s destined for far bigger things and is unlikely to want the pocket change the SFA pay. They despise the SFA/SPFL.

Yeah i agree 👍 shame tbh. 

[Pasquale for King]

Have to say I feared the worst when Clarke was interviewed before the game and said he saw it being an end to end basketball game where both teams needed the win late on. Keep it tight for 70 minutes Levein/Neilson dinosaur type thing. Im not sure the Croatian manager would’ve saw it the same way. 

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Yeah i agree 👍 shame tbh. 

It is but there’s others of a similar ilk that may well be interested, they probably wouldn’t stay long though. There’s plenty of managers with international experience out there or up and coming guys. They might need to push the boat out wages wise and not let the racist press and pundits influence and dictate the agenda.

[Pasquale for King]

It’s still that era in this footballing backwater, no wonder all the good players we have got out. 

[No Idle Talk]

It's pish watching Scotland fail all the time. I feel so fortunate to support a team like the Jambos who never let you down on the big occasion. 😄

 

*Its an an internet forum so I best point out I'm being sarcy here.

Edited June 23, 2021 by No Idle Talk

[JackLadd]

Going forward from this, even with a dynamic manager that can adapt (unlike Clarke) and be relied upon to pick the strongest XI (unlike Clarke) we'd be up against it vs Denmark and Austria for the WC qualifiers. I don't see us doing anything but jostle with Israel for also rans with Clarke in that group. There is hope in Gilmour and one or two others but it would amaze me if Clarke gets us to Qatar next year without the back door route he had in the Euros. We are dealing with a stubborn dour dinosaur in Clarke. 

[Big Slim Stylee]

3 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

I honestly haven't a clue what you mean and I doubt if anyone else has.  If it's humour it's far too subtle for me.

Man you’re a decent bloke but thick as..🙁

[Kiwidoug]

1 minute ago, Big Slim Stylee said:

Man you’re a decent bloke but thick as..🙁

Why do so many people on here resort to personal abuse? And personal abuse aimed at fellow Jambos at that.

 

Instead of coming back with some quick retort, have a wee think first.

[Kiwidoug]

Here's a thought.  Why do the players who are contenders for goal of the tournament have to score them against us?

[No Idle Talk]

Got a window into the soul of an Old Firm fan tonight. Celtic fan. Scotland fan. When Scotland went 1-3 doon he says "so glad I love the Cellic coz Im fed up watching Scotland fail. Fans of the diddy teams are welcome to this team". It was frustration talking. But it showed that there isnt much patience there for failure. Folk like that wouldn't survive long supporting Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen, or God forbid an even smaller team. Maybe its an inbuilt thing. I dont know. Its the kicks in the balls that make you appreciate the days when you win. I've always thought that. 

 

Just an observation.

[Shanks]

Ach well it was a good wee go at tournament football.  
 

The nations league has given diddy teams like us and north macedonia a back door entrance to these competitions so it was just nice to be involved for once. 

[gregzy2k7]

What do scotland fans actually expect from scotland ? Quarters? Semis? I'm gutted to be out of the euros but can't say I'm surprised, even if we had somehow squeezed into the last 16, we would have been embarrassed by one of the better teams in the tournament in the next round imo, I'm just happy that scotland are actually qualifying for these tournaments again, we now need to target getting to the world cup now, It's very doable imo, considering the group we find ourselves in, we will have to take something in Austria though tbf which for me is acheivable, let's use this as momentum to get to Quatar and hopefully by that point a Top class striker will have emerged and obviously J souttar will be first choice centre half too to solve our defensive frailtys.

[Kiwidoug]

The goog news is that no Hearts players were involved other than Craig Gordon's peripheral role.  Unfortunately, that's also the bad news.

 

I want to see Hearts back to performing as we did in 2005/06 with a mixture of overseas players and a majority of Scots including 4 or 5 accomplished internationally.  The Scotland team at that time was able to defeat the reigning World Cup holders in their own country and perform competitively against the reigning World cup runners-up.

 

We can't just think as Hearts and Scotland supporters that this is as it gets.  It isn't and it won't be.

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

14 teams to support 

ABE

ABW

I hope they both do well. Keeps it interesting after another weak surrender. 

[ri Alban]

24 minutes ago, gregzy2k7 said:

What do scotland fans actually expect from scotland ? Quarters? Semis? I'm gutted to be out of the euros but can't say I'm surprised, even if we had somehow squeezed into the last 16, we would have been embarrassed by one of the better teams in the tournament in the next round imo, I'm just happy that scotland are actually qualifying for these tournaments again, we now need to target getting to the world cup now, It's very doable imo, considering the group we find ourselves in, we will have to take something in Austria though tbf which for me is acheivable, let's use this as momentum to get to Quatar and hopefully by that point a Top class striker will have emerged and obviously J souttar will be first choice centre half too to solve our defensive frailtys.

I expect a bit of fight. No harm in getting pumped if you at least put up a fight. Shitebags. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

30 minutes ago, gregzy2k7 said:

What do scotland fans actually expect from scotland ? Quarters? Semis? I'm gutted to be out of the euros but can't say I'm surprised, even if we had somehow squeezed into the last 16, we would have been embarrassed by one of the better teams in the tournament in the next round imo, I'm just happy that scotland are actually qualifying for these tournaments again, we now need to target getting to the world cup now, It's very doable imo, considering the group we find ourselves in, we will have to take something in Austria though tbf which for me is acheivable, let's use this as momentum to get to Quatar and hopefully by that point a Top class striker will have emerged and obviously J souttar will be first choice centre half too to solve our defensive frailtys.

 

 

1. Play our best players in every game. Gordon, Adams, Fraser and Gilmour all should have played against the Czechs. 

2. Try to win matches. Forrest should have played instead of O'Donnell, plus Adams and Fraser should have played more. We won't win games at this level with someone like Lyndon Dykes playing nearly every minute of all 3 games. We played a very defensive team and game plan yesterday in a game we had to win. We basically had no threat down the right.

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

I don’t know, maybe because the SFA couldn’t afford him and a manager would never leave Rangers to take the Scotland job?  More likely to go the other direction like when McLeish dumped Scotland when doing well to go to Rangers.  Money talks. 

Birmingham. Smith went to Rangers. 

 

[ri Alban]

An English Scotland manager. Hell no, that shite tae feck. Bad enough we have some players. 

[gregzy2k7]

17 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

I expect a bit of fight. No harm in getting pumped if you at least put up a fight. Shitebags. 

Fair enough, for me i seen plenty of fight today, Croatia were just miles better I'm afraid, played us off the park.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

The SFA should give Roy Hodgson a call, someone experienced at the top level and known to be good with players. They won't. It'll be Calum Davidson after Clarke then some other guy who's had a couple of good seasons in Scottish football. Jobs for the boys. Someone the media likes. I thought Clarke had maybe turned a corner with the England game but he obviously had no clue how to approach this game. He made so many mistakes in that game and this tournament as a whole.

[gregzy2k7]

12 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

 

1. Play our best players in every game. Gordon, Adams, Fraser and Gilmour all should have played against the Czechs. 

2. Try to win matches. Forrest should have played instead of O'Donnell, plus Adams and Fraser should have played more. We won't win games at this level with someone like Lyndon Dykes playing nearly every minute of all 3 games. We played a very defensive team and game plan yesterday in a game we had to win. We basically had no threat down the right.

Fair enough, some good points mate, I agree that gordon should have been ahead of marsh, however even if we had played everyone you mentioned, can you honestly say that we would have qualified for the knockouts?, and even if we had, then what? We just arent good enough (yet) for me, we lack a geniune world class attacking player and a classy centre half, if you look at wales, outside of bale and ramsey their team is very average and tbh i would fancy scotland to beat them comfortably without those two, you put bale and ramsey in the Scotland team and we are in the next round for sure.

I'm hoping over the next few years we find that world class forward/attacker that can make the difference to scotland as the rest of our team is improving imo.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

7 minutes ago, gregzy2k7 said:

Fair enough, some good points mate, I agree that gordon should have been ahead of marsh, however even if we had played everyone you mentioned, can you honestly say that we would have qualified for the knockouts?, and even if we had, then what? We just arent good enough (yet) for me, we lack a geniune world class attacking player and a classy centre half, if you look at wales, outside of bale and ramsey their team is very average and tbh i would fancy scotland to beat them comfortably without those two, you put bale and ramsey in the Scotland team and we are in the next round for sure.

I'm hoping over the next few years we find that world class forward/attacker that can make the difference to scotland as the rest of our team is improving imo.

 

Gilmour, Turnbull, Souttar, Tierney, McTominay, Hickey (on the right), McGinn, Robertson, Adams, Fraser is a very good core potentially. Lewis Ferguson and Ryan Gauld should maybe come in.

 

The annoying thing is Ferguson, Souttar and Gauld weren't even in the squad, (Hickey hasn't even been picked by the U21s, despite being considered one of the best youngsters in Europe right now), Turnbull got no game, and Adams and Fraser weren't first picks. Clarke had a very good team potentially but he stuck with his favourites. 

[John Findlay]

The difference between Scotland and the likes of Croatia, they play with their brains as well as their feet.

There speed of thought is far quicker than ours. They dont get that coached out of them.

Modric got his space tonight, because he has the footballing brain to get himself that space. 

Because they are quicker in thought, they are therefore quicker in deed.

Croatia's second goal was a goal of beauty. Modric knew what he was going to do when he made the first pass to start the move rolling.

We got beat by a far better football team tonight. There is no disgrace in that.

 

It's not all doom and gloom.

There are signs of improvement for Scotland. There are things to build on.

 

I personally believe if Billy Gilmour was playing last night, we still would have lost. Even with Gilmour in the team, Croatia would have still been the better team.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Still can’t believe he took Kevin Hibsed-it ahead of Griffiths 

[spacerjoe]

6 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

He's not expected to achieve anything with Scotland, that's what makes him a great appointment. 

 

 

 

The whole reason you are talking about him as Scotland manager is because you expected us to progress to the knockout stages of a major tournament for the first time, by knocking out the current Workd Cup runners up!

 

Nobody would be wanting Clarke sacked if we had no expectations. 

 

There's plenty of expectations!

 

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by spacerjoe

[Harry Potter]

7 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Another Scottish dinosaur is the last thing we need. 

Ha Ha

[Harry Potter]

Funny how we scored from the 18 yard line as opposed to trying to walk it in.

Too many times we have the chance to shoot but go for the walking in to the box job.

beyond me.

[OldGorgie]

31 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

It's not all doom and gloom.

There are signs of improvement for Scotland. There are things to build on.

 

I personally believe if Billy Gilmour was playing last night, we still would have lost. Even with Gilmour in the team, Croatia would have still been the better team.

A good post that addresses the reality of the current Scottish setup. Watching Scotland last night was like watching Hearts the last few seasons. No flair and lots of journeymen. Flair players like Forest left out while big useless lumps like Kevin Hibsid, Dykes and Adams  who can’t score at international level are played.

[Malinga the Swinga]

8 hours ago, Rave MacPherson said:

I've not read many comments on here but I'm proud as **** of the effort every player put in tonight. We might not have won but we gave it everything and tried our best. That's what i want to see our national team (and Hearts) doing game after game. 

Sums up Tartan army, and why we will never succeed at any level.

If that was giving everything, and trying our best, then we should give up.

Shameful tactics and shameful lack of effort.

I don't want to see that level of performance from any team I support ever.

 

[Debut 4]

18 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

A good post that addresses the reality of the current Scottish setup. Watching Scotland last night was like watching Hearts the last few seasons. No flair and lots of journeymen. Flair players like Forest left out while big useless lumps like Kevin Hibsid, Dykes and Adams  who can’t score at international level are played.

Even the likes of Wales have a couple of players who can make the difference. Bale and Ramsey aside they have Moore who seems to know the way to goal.

 

If we take anything from this tournament(and it should always be about improving) is that Dykes is humpty and never an internationalist. 
 

Adams is a strong player in other aspects and you’d definitely keep him In. Nisbet should never be there. 

The frontline is certainly a concern for Scotland just now.  

 

[The Mighty Thor]

I read a few pages back a poster (Seymour) asking how Wales area able to compete despite being a small nation with not a huge pool of talent?

 

Gary Speed.

 

Gary Speed took the Wales job when they were 117th in the FIFA rankings and were in a very similar position to Scotland, a constant joke team in world/european tournaments.

 

He revolutionised and professionalised the Welsh set up. Brought in sports scientists firstly, focussing on performance and fitness, then brought in youth. Aaron Ramsay was his captain aged 20. He had the plan to build a team around these young players that would evolve and grow together and reach tournaments in future and not immediately. They got absolutely scudded their first few games but the regime he installed took them to the semi-finals of Euro 2016 long after his death.

 

What have we got? Clarke - straight off the Largs conveyor belt implementing the doctrine of Roxburgh & Brown. John Carver - who has done....errr...**** all. 

 

We have a nucleus of young players who should be playing for Scotland for years to come but we have a coaching infrastructure who would rather give a 36 year old a last run out. That's what needs to change. It's what's needed to change after every tournament failure in my lifetime.

 

Who is our Gary Speed?

[Malinga the Swinga]

Strange decisions by Clarke throughout tournament.

1) playing weakest keeper in squad in all three games

2) he brought on Forrest in 1st game, he did okay and then never seen again

3) bringing on McKenna last night when Hanley was injured. Barely featured in last number of games and is  unbelievably limited. Captain of Leeds left on bench.

4) obsessed with playing Dykes as target man. Dinosaur tactics from dinosaur manager.

5) far too slow to make substitutes in any game

6) O'Donnell played as first choice in every game. Decent against England but awful on other games. He isn't and never will be good enough.

7) 1 win in last 8 competitive games says tactics are wrong. We didn't change them once.

😎 Allowed Modric freedom of midfield. No attempt to pressure him at any time.

😎he is reactive rather than pro active. Opposition managers will love playing us as we are so predictable. We wait for things to happen instead of making them happen.

😎

There are others I'm sure, but these are for starters. No idea why these emoji things are appearing!

 

[John Findlay]

7 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

How's it silly, it's a good shout tbh. 

Tommy Docherty left the Scottish manager's job in 1972, to take over at Man Utd, for the annual salary of

£12,000 pa. No one has ever left Man United to become permanent Scotland manager.

After Docherty, came Wullie Ormond-club manager of St Johnstone.

After him Ally MacLeod, club manager of Aberdeen.

To my knowledge, not one Scotland manager has left Man united, Liverpool, Celtic, Rangers etc to manage Scotland. They just dont do it.

[Japan Jambo]

9 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Feck going to Qatar. 

 

Have to say the thought of a football tournament in Qatar is so ridiculous I find myself laughing about it - appreciate there will be 'wet' fan zones with reduced price beer prices but given that it usually runs for $15 a pint, the heat is scorching and being drunk/drinking in public is a big deal things could get messy.

[vegas-voss]

9 hours ago, heatonjambo said:

Untill we stop sucking up to the old firm and what they want and develope National football we will be crap

not ment at a pop at u but that to me, while miserable a pissed is the central issue

Don't see it as a pop at me it all goes hand and hand.It is no coincidence that France and Germany put national programs together after they were deemed failures especially France and look what happened.Now of course I'm not expecting those results from Scotland but we can hugely improve.I keep going back to it but it's been said since the Roxburgh era that massive change was needed.

[vegas-voss]

9 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I suspect there is more to it than that. 

Yes but they are the catalyst and without them would  Wales really be huff and puff and just full of effort like us.Thise two add the touch of class needed.

[Jambo61]

35 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I read a few pages back a poster (Seymour) asking how Wales area able to compete despite being a small nation with not a huge pool of talent?

 

Gary Speed.

 

Gary Speed took the Wales job when they were 117th in the FIFA rankings and were in a very similar position to Scotland, a constant joke team in world/european tournaments.

 

He revolutionised and professionalised the Welsh set up. Brought in sports scientists firstly, focussing on performance and fitness, then brought in youth. Aaron Ramsay was his captain aged 20. He had the plan to build a team around these young players that would evolve and grow together and reach tournaments in future and not immediately. They got absolutely scudded their first few games but the regime he installed took them to the semi-finals of Euro 2016 long after his death.

 

What have we got? Clarke - straight off the Largs conveyor belt implementing the doctrine of Roxburgh & Brown. John Carver - who has done....errr...**** all. 

 

We have a nucleus of young players who should be playing for Scotland for years to come but we have a coaching infrastructure who would rather give a 36 year old a last run out. That's what needs to change. It's what's needed to change after every tournament failure in my lifetime.

 

Who is our Gary Speed?

Exactly....1974 Law instead of Ford.......has been the same ever since with the same result! Too much loyalty to players who got you there but happen to have got too old or regressed! International football is all about the now! Who is playing best now, not my mate for the last ? years!

[Jambo61]

17 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Don't see it as a pop at me it all goes hand and hand.It is no coincidence that France and Germany put national programs together after they were deemed failures especially France and look what happened.Now of course I'm not expecting those results from Scotland but we can hugely improve.I keep going back to it but it's been said since the Roxburgh era that massive change was needed.

We need someone to do a review and present a paper/ plan!

[Japan Jambo]

7 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

It’s still that era in this footballing backwater, no wonder all the good players we have got out. 

 

I do think we need to reflect but putting another manager up against the wall with a blindfold won't solve anything. We need a bit of introspection with regard to our mentality; all I hear today is proud, proud, proud - why? what of? we struggled to get there, stood up for one game and squandered two games with home advantage. We have a real talent for over-celebrating minor victories and papering over losses, the 'unlucky' chat really boiled my piss.

Edited June 23, 2021 by Japan Jambo

[This is My Story Podcast]

We can talk about playing style, formations till we are blue in the face. The fundamental flaw with the national team is the happy clapping, here for a party, doe a deer culture. Clapped off the park last night, three day party for a nil nil draw and the usual if my aunty had balls chat after the Czech game. If everyone is “proud” just to get there, what pressure to maintain standards are there? Robertson, Tierney, Hanley, McTominay, McGinn, Gilmour, Adam’s, Fleck, McBurnie.......all play/played in the EPL, one of the best leagues in the world. Come to Scotland and their levels drop massively. There is zero pressure to perform. Until that culture is changed we will achieve nothing. In the back door of the easiest Euro’s to qualify for. Finished bottom with one point and one goal in the easiest Euros group set up to qualify from. Other nations comparable in size through, playing better with poorer players. Every pundit I listened to last night just “so proud” of what Scotland achieved. Every paper. Every player. “Proud” of themselves for what should be a national embarrassment. Out without even laying a glove on anyone and the biggest disappointment of it all is we never even had a proper go in any the games. 

[TexasAndy]

I think what hit home after last night is that we, as a football country, need to change our attitude to the game if we ever want to compete at the business end of tournaments.  It starts at kids football and all the way through every level.  We need to start with learning how to control and pass the ball, keep possession, don't treat it like a hot tattie.  We as fans need to understand this too.  When we are watching our domestic teams trying to break down packed defences we are all screaming for the ball to be lumped up to the strikers.  That's what we did last night and it was sad to watch.  We CAN play football as we showed at Wembley but our default mentality is impatience.  Until we all change then we will never reach knock out stages.