Trans athletes

[Nookie Bear]

12 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Its more about the culture in gay and lesbian society.  If a lesbian says she isnt attracted to a transwomen she may be labelled a transphobe. Its something which LGB need to sort out really and make it clear its ok for lesbian or gay people not to " date" a transperson. I for would like my men to have a real C"""  not one made out of bits of skin from their arm. Call me old fashioned or just gay. 

 

Surely it is up to the person whether they want to date a trans or if they find the idea unacceptable on a purely sexual grounds. It isn't something you canhave an over-riding 'policy' on amongst a community.

[JudyJudyJudy]

11 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Surely it is up to the person whether they want to date a trans or if they find the idea unacceptable on a purely sexual grounds. It isn't something you canhave an over-riding 'policy' on amongst a community.

Of course it is however you shouldn't be accused of transphobia if you don't want to " date" a trans person. Its a preference. I am gay I prefer biological born men as most gay men do.  I shouldn't be be shamed about this. 

[John Findlay]

19 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

Teenagers are nuts .

They are confused and vulnerable and easy to manipulate - that’s why you are not allowed to sleep with them, they cannot vote and it should be why you don’t allow them to chop off their genitalia .

Are 16/18 year olds not teenagers.

Here was me thinking you're a teenager from age 13 until you have your 20th birthday.

[Captain Slog]

2 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Are 16/18 year olds not teenagers.

Here was me thinking you're a teenager from age 13 until you have your 20th birthday.

In a way, it must be really hard to be a teenager now.  When i was young, that period was when i leaned my boundaries, how i was expected to act, and also what i was expected to give to society.

 

During my life, the boundaries expanded, and thankfully minorities challenged expectations and were able to express themselves.

 

Now however, said teenagers only have a sense of self entitlement.  While there are possibly positives to being the me generation, its absolutely true that if you have no chains you you are less free and suffer more than anyone who is chained by their rules - morals - standards - guidance - call it what you like.  Teenagers i have to deal with at work are certainly far less mature these days than even ten years ago, they all come across as still kids.  Think a post from Ri on steroids.

[jack D and coke]

[Ulysses]

15 hours ago, jonesy said:

Should men's football players be tested for a minimum level of testosterone? 😜 

 

I've thought something along those lines a few times in my career watching Hearts (and Ireland).

[Ulysses]

12 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Its more about the culture in gay and lesbian society.  If a lesbian says she isnt attracted to a transwomen she may be labelled a transphobe. Its something which LGB need to sort out really and make it clear its ok for lesbian or gay people not to " date" a transperson. I for would like my men to have a real C"""  not one made out of bits of skin from their arm. Call me old fashioned or just gay. 

 

It's happening on Twitter, James, not in real life (at least not to any noticeable extent).  If it were happening to any noticeable extent, a researcher who is actively worried about this issue should have been able to find more than 45 people to fill in a survey saying that it happened.

 

It's like people getting trapped in quicksand in the Wild West, or murders in Oxford.  They're both a horrible thing to worry about, but only if you watch enough bad cowboy telly shows from the 60s/70s or Inspector Morse.

[Ulysses]

12 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

It’s still a worrying issue in LGB society / culture just now where the militants are stating that gay or lesbians who do not fancy a trans person are transphobic . It’s concerning . I’ve given a few of those nutters a mouthful ( pardon the expression ;)) when they have tried to 

“ educate” me and inform me whom I should fancy or not . I worked that one out a long time ago so they can do one. 

 

See above.

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

 

[Konrad von Carstein]

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

37 minutes ago, Konrad von Carstein said:

 

Oh yes great been following him for years . Brilliant social commentator and on the ball with this issue too . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

[Konrad von Carstein]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

It's happening on Twitter, James, not in real life (at least not to any noticeable extent).  If it were happening to any noticeable extent, a researcher who is actively worried about this issue should have been able to find more than 45 people to fill in a survey saying that it happened.

 

It's like people getting trapped in quicksand in the Wild West, or murders in Oxford.  They're both a horrible thing to worry about, but only if you watch enough bad cowboy telly shows from the 60s/70s or Inspector Morse.

Actually I do see your point but remember many young people use twitter and other forms of social media far more than older people so can can be more influenced / intimidated to follow the “ correct “ dogma / ideology 

[JudyJudyJudy]

   good article 
 

 

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-flawed-science-of-trans-inclusion-in-womens-sport/?fbclid=IwAR2jOtTmQuruduOy0JJWpUimRFwlfakWH-S6UGULYB8LmEJiXI5USrQCvtM

[jack D and coke]

Does trans mean you think you’re in the wrong body so want to live as the other sex but then be gay? Is that right?

I ended up reading a thread on twitter too about this “guy” who trans’d into a woman, him and his wife had a baby somehow and he was talking about getting off on his baby suckling on his tit, he’d taken hormones so was expressing?! I don’t even know what I’m reading anymore tbh  

There must be people in jail for less than this carry on….This isn’t going to end well somewhere along the line. 

[Ron Burgundy]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

Does trans mean you think you’re in the wrong body so want to live as the other sex but then be gay? Is that right?

I ended up reading a thread on twitter too about this “guy” who trans’d into a woman, him and his wife had a baby somehow and he was talking about getting off on his baby suckling on his tit, he’d taken hormones so was expressing?! I don’t even know what I’m reading anymore tbh  

There must be people in jail for less than this carry on….This isn’t going to end well somewhere along the line. 

That's crossing a line. Sicko's.

Social services should be involved with them.

[jack D and coke]

The actual **** is going on?! It’s hard drive checks and children taken into custody is what should be happening here. It’s all getting extremely weird…

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by jack D and coke

[indianajones]

4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

The actual **** is going on?! It’s hard drive checks and children taken into custody is what should be happening here. It’s all getting extremely weird…

 

 

 

Its completely inappropriate and should be classed as child abuse. 

[jack D and coke]

2 minutes ago, indianajones said:

 

 

Its completely inappropriate and should be classed as child abuse. 

This lot stripping off in front of your kids? Who takes their kids to see this kind of freakshow anyway?!

[Tazio]

British Cycling have reversed their policies on trans athletes and they will no longer be allowed to compete. They’re working on new guidelines that will be published soon. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

The actual **** is going on?! It’s hard drive checks and children taken into custody is what should be happening here. It’s all getting extremely weird…

 

See this is the reason I get to angry about this subject when gay / lesbian people are lumped into all this disgusting shit . Really angers me . For years gays had to dispel the harmful stereotypes of being peadophiles and now we get all this crap ! Arghh 

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Does trans mean you think you’re in the wrong body so want to live as the other sex but then be gay? Is that right?

I ended up reading a thread on twitter too about this “guy” who trans’d into a woman, him and his wife had a baby somehow and he was talking about getting off on his baby suckling on his tit, he’d taken hormones so was expressing?! I don’t even know what I’m reading anymore tbh  

There must be people in jail for less than this carry on….This isn’t going to end well somewhere along the line. 

Found this online 

[jack D and coke]

32 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Found this online 

I seen that tweet. I think it was clicking on that to read a bit more I ended up on that other weirdos twitter. 
Honestly what has happened here…

Live and let live for me but this doesn’t feel right at all. How have they became this powerful and overly aggressive too? It baffles me I struggle to understand this trans thing. 
Initially I thought it was just sort of like the gay movement and this was a period where they just wanted equality.
It feels different from that. 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

I seen that tweet. I think it was clicking on that to read a bit more I ended up on that other weirdos twitter. 
Honestly what has happened here…

Live and let live for me but this doesn’t feel right at all. How have they became this powerful and overly aggressive too? It baffles me I struggle to understand this trans thing. 
Initially I thought it was just sort of like the gay movement and this was a period where they just wanted equality.
It feels different from that. 

 

I’ll message the Morrow as out for meal the night bud 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

I’ll message the Morrow as out for meal the night bud 

👍🏼Enjoy the scran 

[Lord Montpelier]

6 hours ago, Tazio said:

British Cycling have reversed their policies on trans athletes and they will no longer be allowed to compete. They’re working on new guidelines that will be published soon. 

Good on them. I hope they are preparing themselves to be "cancelled", as seems the way now. 

[escobri]

[Ulysses]

14 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Actually I do see your point but remember many young people use twitter and other forms of social media far more than older people so can can be more influenced / intimidated to follow the “ correct “ dogma / ideology 

 

Apologies for this in advance, but please read it in the spirit it's intended.

 

Years ago, my late mother was reading a book to my (then) 3-year old niece, who is now in her late 30s, by the way.  Cartoonish drawings and few words in big print, you know the kind of thing.

 

She opened a double page with a picture of a sheepdog on one page and a picture of a sheep on the other.  After reading the little couple of words on the page, my mam asked my niece "What about the dog?  Won't the sheep be afraid of the dog?"

 

My niece calmly replied "No.  No way."

 

My mam asked "Will the sheep not be afraid in case the dog bites it?"

 

My niece (still calm) "No, it won't."

 

My mam asked "Why not?"

 

To which my niece replied "It's only a book!"

 

 

If my 3-year old niece can tell the difference, I'm sure you can as well.

[doctor jambo]

7 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

Apologies for this in advance, but please read it in the spirit it's intended.

 

Years ago, my late mother was reading a book to my (then) 3-year old niece, who is now in her late 30s, by the way.  Cartoonish drawings and few words in big print, you know the kind of thing.

 

She opened a double page with a picture of a sheepdog on one page and a picture of a sheep on the other.  After reading the little couple of words on the page, my mam asked my niece "What about the dog?  Won't the sheep be afraid of the dog?"

 

My niece calmly replied "No.  No way."

 

My mam asked "Will the sheep not be afraid in case the dog bites it?"

 

My niece (still calm) "No, it won't."

 

My mam asked "Why not?"

 

To which my niece replied "It's only a book!"

 

 

If my 3-year old niece can tell the difference, I'm sure you can as well.

You misunderstand the power of social media.

And in a massive way.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

You misunderstand the power of social media.

And in a massive way.

 

Exactly. I couldn't be bothered replying to it as it was extremely patronising but as you said social media is a powerful tool used by many and in particular has been utilised by the trans militants very successfully in a variety of ways. 

[doctor jambo]

51 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Exactly. I couldn't be bothered replying to it as it was extremely patronising but as you said social media is a powerful tool used by many and in particular has been utilised by the trans militants very successfully in a variety of ways. 

I have seen the effects on my own children. The anxiety and stress .

Its relentless- you struggle to escape it.

Come off it and tour social life vanishes, stay on it the pressure to check it, respond to things and “conform” to trend is quite something to behold.

People dismissing the insidious creep of social media grew up without it.

As you know , it allows people to access your life, wherever you are 24/7, find you and send you the vilest abuse even in the safety of your bedroom.

As a kid the bullies either had to physically find you or phone your parents house and ask to speak to you.

I have anonymity on such things.

kids can’t .

it’s evil 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

34 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

I have seen the effects on my own children. The anxiety and stress .

Its relentless- you struggle to escape it.

Come off it and tour social life vanishes, stay on it the pressure to check it, respond to things and “conform” to trend is quite something to behold.

People dismissing the insidious creep of social media grew up without it.

As you know , it allows people to access your life, wherever you are 24/7, find you and send you the vilest abuse even in the safety of your bedroom.

As a kid the bullies either had to physically find you or phone your parents house and ask to speak to you.

I have anonymity on such things.

kids can’t .

it’s evil 

 

Good summary . It’s 24/7 and there is so much pressure on young people to be 

“ popular” via “ likes “ or how many “ friends “ they have etc . Now imagine this is amplified if you are a young insecure gay / lesbian person and still in the closet . You are rich pickings for the militant trans mob . I hated my teenage years , I hate to acknowledge it but I really did . Couldn’t wait to be an adult and just have to confidence and independence to be myself 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Spot on by Julie Bindel 

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10700875/JULIE-BINDEL-week-Britain-finally-came-senses-trans-extremists-cried-ENOUGH.html?fbclid=IwAR0r-GryplJ_iRHEcfXpI9YgTHe6eIXSub0mCLBnbtIVX6mr9Oartruenpo#l1ru20efpk8p7vk5cl

[Ulysses]

7 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

You misunderstand the power of social media.

And in a massive way.

 

 

No, Doc.  No disrespect, but this isn't about my understanding of social media, but about your understanding of my point.  That point is not about the reality of the influence or the experience of people engaging with social media; it's about the specific content of the interactions that take place.

 

 

2 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

Exactly. I couldn't be bothered replying to it as it was extremely patronising but as you said social media is a powerful tool used by many and in particular has been utilised by the trans militants very successfully in a variety of ways. 

 

With all due respect, both you and the Doc have missed my point.  It's not about whether something is easy or hard on social media; it's about what actually happens in reality in the interactions that take place on social media.  Your contention is that lesbians are being pressurised into having sex with trans women.  But you have no evidence that this is happening.  When asked for it, you talk about social media conversations.  I'm not telling you that those conversations aren't real, nor am I telling you that they aren't difficult for young people to deal with.  What I am telling you is that those conversations do not involve trans women trying to pressurise lesbians into having sex.  They involve people on social media (who are very often not trans and very often identify as straight) bothering and harassing people (who may or may not be lesbians) because of their opinions on hypothetical situations.

 

Let's say for the sake of argument that I'm in Dublin and I scream abuse at a gay man in Edinburgh because I think lesbians should have sex with trans women and he doesn't agree. 

 

Is that abusive?  Yes.

 

Should I behave that way?  No.

 

Am I in any way right to have this opinion?  No (though others might disagree).

 

Could that abuse potentially cause upset, hurt and real psychological damage to the gay man I've harassed and abused?  Yes.

 

I don't imagine you, the Doc or I would disagree on any of those questions.  But no matter how much we agree, nowhere in the abuse has any lesbian been pressurised into having sex with a trans woman.  There are simply way too many degrees of separation for that to be the case.  The abuser isn't a trans woman.  Even if it was the abuser is in another country and easily blockable.  Even if that wasn't the case the victim of the abuse isn't a lesbian; it's not even a woman.  I'm labouring this point and it sounds patronising.  My apologies for that - but FFS, do I really need to spell out those degrees of separation?

 

Why is that relevant?  Because a person who had an active agenda to promote the view that this type of sexual abuse was being perpetrated on lesbians went out and did a survey to find out if it was.  45 people responded to say it was something they'd experienced - but in fact from those responses it was not at all clear that any significant number of them had actually experienced a real live trans woman trying to pressurise them into sex. 

 

If this kind of abuse and peer pressure is being carried out by anyone, no matter who they are, that's unquestionably wrong.  But if it is not being carried out by trans women, then it is wrong to paint it as trans women putting pressure on lesbians, or in any way to leave trans people open to the accusation or the suggestion that they are somehow at fault for that kind of behaviour.

[doctor jambo]

2 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

No, Doc.  No disrespect, but this isn't about my understanding of social media, but about your understanding of my point.  That point is not about the reality of the influence or the experience of people engaging with social media; it's about the specific content of the interactions that take place.

 

 

 

With all due respect, both you and the Doc have missed my point.  It's not about whether something is easy or hard on social media; it's about what actually happens in reality in the interactions that take place on social media.  Your contention is that lesbians are being pressurised into having sex with trans women.  But you have no evidence that this is happening.  When asked for it, you talk about social media conversations.  I'm not telling you that those conversations aren't real, nor am I telling you that they aren't difficult for young people to deal with.  What I am telling you is that those conversations do not involve trans women trying to pressurise lesbians into having sex.  They involve people on social media (who are very often not trans and very often identify as straight) bothering and harassing people (who may or may not be lesbians) because of their opinions on hypothetical situations.

 

Let's say for the sake of argument that I'm in Dublin and I scream abuse at a gay man in Edinburgh because I think lesbians should have sex with trans women and he doesn't agree. 

 

Is that abusive?  Yes.

 

Should I behave that way?  No.

 

Am I in any way right to have this opinion?  No (though others might disagree).

 

Could that abuse potentially cause upset, hurt and real psychological damage to the gay man I've harassed and abused?  Yes.

 

I don't imagine you, the Doc or I would disagree on any of those questions.  But no matter how much we agree, nowhere in the abuse has any lesbian been pressurised into having sex with a trans woman.  There are simply way too many degrees of separation for that to be the case.  The abuser isn't a trans woman.  Even if it was the abuser is in another country and easily blockable.  Even if that wasn't the case the victim of the abuse isn't a lesbian; it's not even a woman.  I'm labouring this point and it sounds patronising.  My apologies for that - but FFS, do I really need to spell out those degrees of separation?

 

Why is that relevant?  Because a person who had an active agenda to promote the view that this type of sexual abuse was being perpetrated on lesbians went out and did a survey to find out if it was.  45 people responded to say it was something they'd experienced - but in fact from those responses it was not at all clear that any significant number of them had actually experienced a real live trans woman trying to pressurise them into sex. 

 

If this kind of abuse and peer pressure is being carried out by anyone, no matter who they are, that's unquestionably wrong.  But if it is not being carried out by trans women, then it is wrong to paint it as trans women putting pressure on lesbians, or in any way to leave trans people open to the accusation or the suggestion that they are somehow at fault for that kind of behaviour.

Think the point is that a fair % of men are perverts/ predators/ deviants .

then put some of them in places where women are vulnerable, and whilst you can change the hormone profile of a man, can you change the mind?

Better to anticipate issues , than in a few years apologise for it

[Ulysses]

50 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Think the point is that a fair % of men are perverts/ predators/ deviants .

then put some of them in places where women are vulnerable, and whilst you can change the hormone profile of a man, can you change the mind?

Better to anticipate issues , than in a few years apologise for it

 

No, that wasn't the point.  Separately, you and I agreed about how tadgered persons have issues with sexual boundaries, consent and behaviour. 

 

But a different and specific argument was made about lesbians being pressurised into having sex with trans women - and I have countered to note the inability of the people who say that this is happening and happening a lot to provide actual evidence of actual lesbians being pressurised into having actual sex with actual trans women.

 

If people can't provide evidence that this is happening, maybe it would be better not to say that it's happening.

 

The precautionary principle is a valid concept in public policy, but it doesn't allow people to simply make up bad stuff and treat it as if it were real.

[gjcc]

Not an athlete, but relevant (apologies if already posted)… Article in spoiler to stop it taking up large section of the page.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/8687957/trans-killer-identifying-baby-scots-prison/

 

Spoiler

A TRANSGENDER prisoner jailed for murder is demanding to be treated like an infant after self-identifying as a baby

Sophie Eastwood was jailed for life after murdering her cellmate with a pair of shoelaces in 2004.

The lag is now identifying as a baby and has demanding staff at Polmont prisontreat her as one.

She has reportedly told the prison governor she wants to have her meals blended up into baby food and wear nappies.

The convicted killer is also reportedly demanding guards hold her hand as she is taken from her cell.

It is believed the demands are being taken seriously by the jail and that the killer has already been supplied with a dummy.

Eastwood, 36, was jailed in 2004 for dangerous driving but murdered 22-year-old cellmate Paul Algie at Dumfries Young Offender's Institution a month before her release date.

She was handed a life sentence with a minimum of 15 years at the High Court in Glasgow for the killing.

She has now served 17 years of the sentence.

Speaking about Eastwood's demands, a source told the Daily Record: “Eastwood is a complex person and intelligent but she is pretty demanding on the resources of the prison and enjoys being the centre of attention.

"It’s difficult to know if she really does feel a natural inclination to be treated like a baby or if it’s just some kind of attention seeking.

“Modern prisons are very tuned in to human rights and the legal implications they throw up, so it’s being given proper consideration.”

The source claimed prisoners transitioning from male to female was becoming common in jails but they have no protocols for a prisoner like Eastwood who identifies as a baby.

Eastwood has only served time in female-only units since 2018.

She has been behind bars at Polmont, HMP Edinburgh and Cornton Vale.

The Scottish Prison Service has been approached for comment by The Scottish Sun.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

Think the point is that a fair % of men are perverts/ predators/ deviants .

then put some of them in places where women are vulnerable, and whilst you can change the hormone profile of a man, can you change the mind?

Better to anticipate issues , than in a few years apologise for it

 

[doctor jambo]

5 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

No, that wasn't the point.  Separately, you and I agreed about how tadgered persons have issues with sexual boundaries, consent and behaviour. 

 

But a different and specific argument was made about lesbians being pressurised into having sex with trans women - and I have countered to note the inability of the people who say that this is happening and happening a lot to provide actual evidence of actual lesbians being pressurised into having actual sex with actual trans women.

 

If people can't provide evidence that this is happening, maybe it would be better not to say that it's happening.

 

The precautionary principle is a valid concept in public policy, but it doesn't allow people to simply make up bad stuff and treat it as if it were real.

It does though.

I work with offenders, and they are almost entirely men.

manipulative, scheming , devious people that control and deceive .

they coax and control , ghost , gaslight,  manipulate and abuse .

women are NOT like us.

change the physique , but can you change the drive?

[JudyJudyJudy]

29 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

It does though.

I work with offenders, and they are almost entirely men.

manipulative, scheming , devious people that control and deceive .

they coax and control , ghost , gaslight,  manipulate and abuse .

women are NOT like us.

change the physique , but can you change the drive?

👍👍

[Ulysses]

27 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

It does though.

I work with offenders, and they are almost entirely men.

manipulative, scheming , devious people that control and deceive .

they coax and control , ghost , gaslight,  manipulate and abuse .

women are NOT like us.

change the physique , but can you change the drive?

 

We don't disagree on that.  But that still does not make it OK to either make stuff up or pass on unfounded rumours.  If someone is going to claim that trans women are pressuring lesbians into having sex with them, they need evidence.  You said it because you scanned a BBC article which seemed to support your bias - but the BBC article didn't actually support the story.  James, God love him, did something similar. 

 

You have to work with factual information and evidence here.  Moral panic and outrage are poor substitutes.  You know that, and just because you have a general negative disposition doesn't make it OK for you to say something is true when it isn't.  If you really do for a living what you claim to do, you ought to know better.  And if James really is a member of the societal group he claims to be, a group which itself has been the subject of moral panic, outrage, and made-up slurs with no evidence to support them, he should know better.

 

You know what I'm saying makes logical sense, which is why you've stopped arguing that actual lesbians have been in actual situations where they've been pressured into sex with actual trans women.  So has James, and you've both deflected to some general discussion about gender traits with a bit of "ah here, social media is tough on people" thrown in.  You'd do better to withdraw the unfounded slurs.  The best you can say is that you don't know and that the jury is still out. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Tragic 

read the article 

 

 

 

[muldoon74]

16 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

It does though.

I work with offenders, and they are almost entirely men.

manipulative, scheming , devious people that control and deceive .

they coax and control , ghost , gaslight,  manipulate and abuse .

women are NOT like us.

change the physique , but can you change the drive?

I watched an episode of Maury Povic or Oprah (can't remember what) and it had interviews with convicted pedos and rapists.

 

The topic was advocating for castration for these type of offenders, the thought being removing the genitals means they couldn't abuse anyone. Almost all of them said it doesn't matter because the desire to do the things they do is in the brain, it's not a sexual urge it's for power, control and dominance. They also said they've got hands, mouths etc and there are many ways to abuse someone. 

 

So saying the threat of abuse by a transgender person is lessoned because they don't have the physical gear anymore is wrong. If someone is predisposed to abuse, they'll find a way. 

 

 

[CF11JamTart]

"lola" playing on the wireless. 

 

Where to start with this one? 

 

It's a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world.... 

 

[doctor jambo]

5 hours ago, muldoon74 said:

I watched an episode of Maury Povic or Oprah (can't remember what) and it had interviews with convicted pedos and rapists.

 

The topic was advocating for castration for these type of offenders, the thought being removing the genitals means they couldn't abuse anyone. Almost all of them said it doesn't matter because the desire to do the things they do is in the brain, it's not a sexual urge it's for power, control and dominance. They also said they've got hands, mouths etc and there are many ways to abuse someone. 

 

So saying the threat of abuse by a transgender person is lessoned because they don't have the physical gear anymore is wrong. If someone is predisposed to abuse, they'll find a way. 

 

 

It was proven that castrating sex offenders increased the risk of them murdering their victims

[JudyJudyJudy]

6 hours ago, muldoon74 said:

I watched an episode of Maury Povic or Oprah (can't remember what) and it had interviews with convicted pedos and rapists.

 

The topic was advocating for castration for these type of offenders, the thought being removing the genitals means they couldn't abuse anyone. Almost all of them said it doesn't matter because the desire to do the things they do is in the brain, it's not a sexual urge it's for power, control and dominance. They also said they've got hands, mouths etc and there are many ways to abuse someone. 

 

So saying the threat of abuse by a transgender person is lessoned because they don't have the physical gear anymore is wrong. If someone is predisposed to abuse, they'll find a way. 

 

 

I think the issue is the threat women feel if men who can self id without any form of medical intervention are subsequently allowed in womens safe places . I think most women would not have an issue with a trans person who was fully changed in these places ? 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Terrific thread well worth a read . he’s the guy who was in the camp show “ gimme gimme gimme “ few years back. He’s been hounded by militant trans online due to his gender critical views , basically a belief in science over fantasy 

 

 

[Bindy Badgy]

11 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

It was proven that castrating sex offenders increased the risk of them murdering their victims

 

Do you have a source for this?

[John Findlay]

On 09/04/2022 at 14:57, Ulysses said:

 

No, Doc.  No disrespect, but this isn't about my understanding of social media, but about your understanding of my point.  That point is not about the reality of the influence or the experience of people engaging with social media; it's about the specific content of the interactions that take place.

 

 

 

With all due respect, both you and the Doc have missed my point.  It's not about whether something is easy or hard on social media; it's about what actually happens in reality in the interactions that take place on social media.  Your contention is that lesbians are being pressurised into having sex with trans women.  But you have no evidence that this is happening.  When asked for it, you talk about social media conversations.  I'm not telling you that those conversations aren't real, nor am I telling you that they aren't difficult for young people to deal with.  What I am telling you is that those conversations do not involve trans women trying to pressurise lesbians into having sex.  They involve people on social media (who are very often not trans and very often identify as straight) bothering and harassing people (who may or may not be lesbians) because of their opinions on hypothetical situations.

 

Let's say for the sake of argument that I'm in Dublin and I scream abuse at a gay man in Edinburgh because I think lesbians should have sex with trans women and he doesn't agree. 

 

Is that abusive?  Yes.

 

Should I behave that way?  No.

 

Am I in any way right to have this opinion?  No (though others might disagree).

 

Could that abuse potentially cause upset, hurt and real psychological damage to the gay man I've harassed and abused?  Yes.

 

I don't imagine you, the Doc or I would disagree on any of those questions.  But no matter how much we agree, nowhere in the abuse has any lesbian been pressurised into having sex with a trans woman.  There are simply way too many degrees of separation for that to be the case.  The abuser isn't a trans woman.  Even if it was the abuser is in another country and easily blockable.  Even if that wasn't the case the victim of the abuse isn't a lesbian; it's not even a woman.  I'm labouring this point and it sounds patronising.  My apologies for that - but FFS, do I really need to spell out those degrees of separation?

 

Why is that relevant?  Because a person who had an active agenda to promote the view that this type of sexual abuse was being perpetrated on lesbians went out and did a survey to find out if it was.  45 people responded to say it was something they'd experienced - but in fact from those responses it was not at all clear that any significant number of them had actually experienced a real live trans woman trying to pressurise them into sex. 

 

If this kind of abuse and peer pressure is being carried out by anyone, no matter who they are, that's unquestionably wrong.  But if it is not being carried out by trans women, then it is wrong to paint it as trans women putting pressure on lesbians, or in any way to leave trans people open to the accusation or the suggestion that they are somehow at fault for that kind of behaviour.

I would humbly suggest you have all missed each others point(s).