Top European Soccer Teams Agree to Join Breakaway League

[McGlynn The Money]

24 minutes ago, Under the floodlight said:

Bit harsh to be honest, no love for Barcelona but the club is run by arseholes. Celtic are rotten from the owner down to the fans( I'm sure there must be some exceptions) The fans of Barcelona, the ones I know are mainly ok.( I'm sure there must be some exceptions). Mes que un club is a reference to Catalan independence movement not them bragging.

 

20 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Which, by purest coincidence, is also based on greed, arrogance and entitlement. Just as Barcelona have somehow projected a preposterous image of being downtrodden victims and 'the good guys', so Catalan independence is based on one of the wealthiest regions on planet Earth wanting even more for themselves... and somehow making people think they're being repressed!

 

 

The mes que un club thing is about Catalan independence when it suits, not so much when they're trying not to antagonise their fans in the rest of Spain. Very much like Celtic in their hypocrisy.

 

 

[Under the floodlight]

4 minutes ago, McGlynn The Money said:

 

 

 

The mes que un club thing is about Catalan independence when it suits, not so much when they're trying not to antagonise their fans in the rest of Spain. Very much like Celtic in their hypocrisy.

 

 

Football fans will always will always wind each other up, I don't want to get into the whole independence thing as its probably the wrong forum and since I live in Catalunya it could be detrimental to comment on such matters.

[Rogue Daddy]

1 hour ago, SectionDJambo said:

What we have in Scotland presently isn't working for the betterment of the entire league. We have a chief secretary at the SPFL, Mr Vindication, who sells the league to broadcasters by talking up the duopoly. He should be proposing ways of trying to help the other clubs have a chance of competing, which certainly isn't playing them 4 times a season with 12 points at stake against each of the Glasgow bum cheeks. Maybe he could leave with them.

There is a fear of change which will take someone with vision to overcome. To persuade the likes of Motherwell, Kilmarnock and St Johnstone that there is another way. Fans of every club, except Rangers and Celtic are fed up rolling up for every season knowing they are playing in a competition they can never win. It's just a matter of time before those fans find something else to do on a Saturday, especially as we sit in freezing conditions through the winter. Celtic and Rangers leaving tbe league might just be the jolt needed to inspire some radical thinking about how we proceed. 

However, if they go, they go lock, stock and colts. Whoever takes them in better be ready for all the bigoted nonsense that they carry as a badge of honour. It could open a few eyes of people who have been brainwashed about how fantastic their fans are.

👍 Good post mate. Completely agree. 

[McGlynn The Money]

1 hour ago, Under the floodlight said:

Football fans will always will always wind each other up, I don't want to get into the whole independence thing as its probably the wrong forum and since I live in Catalunya it could be detrimental to comment on such matters.

 

Good stuff. I don't mean winding up other team's fans though. Barça like to play up the Catalan identity in Catalonia but they have lots of fans throughout Spain, who may not be so in favour of independence, so tone it down a bit for that market.

 

I love Catalonia and the Catalans but Barça as a club is full of absolute shit.

[Rogue Daddy]

2 hours ago, Vansen said:

What you say is quite possible but look at the number of clubs in London for instance, arsenal, spurs and Chelsea, yet QPR have a decent hard-core, as do Brentford. 

Kids will always be attracted to the new shiny thing but there will always be a localised attraction to a club. QPR is literally just up the road from Chelsea yet still attracts new supporters. 

I have no doubt that we would remain attractive to support. 

You’re absolutely correct. Also add in the fact that money would be tight, to say the least, meaning investment in bringing through youths (as opposed to over priced foreigners or journeymen) would be paramount for all Scottish clubs. All of a sudden the youth of Scotland have better opportunities for progression into 1st team squads. 
Not only that almost every team in the Premier League (and their fans) will believe that they have a reasonable chance of success without the uglies! I’m pretty sure these teams will find a lot of new (local) supporters to follow a team they can, all of a sudden, believe in. 

[Under the floodlight]

14 minutes ago, McGlynn The Money said:

 

Good stuff. I don't mean winding up other team's fans though. Barça like to play up the Catalan identity in Catalonia but they have lots of fans throughout Spain, who may not be so in favour of independence, so tone it down a bit for that market.

 

I love Catalonia and the Catalans but Barça as a club is full of absolute shit.

Me too, only one club for me, the famous Heart of Midlothian, If I was I would be more inclined to follow Girona but haven't been to see them since Peps brother got involved. Hate glory hunters.

[McGlynn The Money]

4 minutes ago, Under the floodlight said:

Me too, only one club for me, the famous Heart of Midlothian, If I was I would be more inclined to follow Girona but haven't been to see them since Peps brother got involved. Hate glory hunters.

 

Quite right!

[JFK-1]

There were two major changes within the game in a space of 15 years which in my view began the march to total OF dominance. The first came in 1980 when Scottish league clubs voted in favour of the home team keeping the entire gate money. Prior to that all gate money was shared equally between the two sides playing.

You're probably talking tens of millions they're now holding on to which before this change was being shared right through all clubs in the top league.

At a stroke that alone massively increased the income of the OF and reduced the flow of cash to the rest of the league who until then had obviously been sharing half of all OF gate money between them. Probably currently amounts to tens of millions. This instantly gave them the ability to pay comfortably higher wages than anyone else.

Then in the 1990's came the Bosman ruling which though it wasn't instigated by the OF, stopping sharing gate money was, gifted them even greater power which has ultimately led to the current situation of them approaching 40 years of sharing the title.

Bosman gave them the ability to pick off any player they wanted for absolutely nothing at the end of his contract with the lure of infinitely higher wages. Something pretty much all non OF clubs in Scotland have seen happen repeatedly ever since.

These two factors were the beginning of the end for any real competition in the top league. And I see no way back.

Even if they leave though the league would be far more competitive with the title likely frequently changing hands between a clutch of clubs we would still see the best players being picked off by them and English clubs.

Limiting any ability to be competitive in European competition which is currently the only avenue of real major money.

[Cruyff]

7 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

What does this even mean?

 

This entire bloody world is obsessed, completely obsessed with perpetual economic growth for its own sake. Which doesn't trickle down or increase competition - it funnels up and reduces competition to the point of non-existence. For monopolies in various industries, read the richest football clubs.

 

The SPL was formed in 1998. Precisely zero non-OF clubs have made a serious title challenge since (in Hearts' case, our best effort involved falling out of the title race in January). Meanwhile, it's taken Scotland 22 years to reach a major finals - and that's not a coincidence.

 

If you let the two biggest clubs leave, yes, you'd lose money from TV deals - but that money just goes on ridiculous wage bills and staffing costs in any case! But what you'd get instead is genuine competition: with power bases in Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Dundee, and the chance for huge numbers of clubs to one day become Champions of Scotland.

 

There'd actually be very little to stop Hearts and Aberdeen becoming counterparts to dominant Scandinavian clubs like AIK, Malmo, Copenhagen, Midtjylland or Rosenborg - especially if UEFA protected the Champions' CL path. Instead, Scottish football is obsessed with comparing itself with England all the bloody time - and nothing good ever comes of that.

 

It's either let the Old Firm go... or trance football for the rest of our lives. And beyond.

Pile of nonsense. Economics are more important factors to smaller clubs than they are to bigger clubs. We'd have about 10 full time teams if the money left with the OF. It would be a disaster. The product would be terrible. 

 

Thanks, but I'd rather play games against the OF and enjoy beating them as underdogs than watching semi pros running about on SPL pitches. 

[JFK-1]

14 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Pile of nonsense. Economics are more important factors to smaller clubs than they are to bigger clubs. We'd have about 10 full time teams if the money left with the OF. It would be a disaster. The product would be terrible. 

 

Thanks, but I'd rather play games against the OF and enjoy beating them as underdogs than watching semi pros running about on SPL pitches. 

 

Have to agree with that, economics is everything in the modern game and it's actually what gives Hearts stature in Scottish football. If the OF leave the standard would drop dramatically as would the current European co-efficiency making it even harder to get anywhere in Europe. Ever. They alone are responsible for the current respectable position.

Would the domestic game in Scotland be more competitive? Absolutely but is that really the only point? School football is competitive. Anybody think it's high quality?

I also feel acquiring million plus transfer fees such as the fee for Hickey would become far less likely. Who is going to pay that much for someone who has never been tested against anything but extremely low quality?

There's also the fact that there are decent players who currently would sign on at SPFL clubs even outside the OF. These guys are trying to put themselves in the shop window for a move to England.

That too would dry up since the English would have little interest in players who have proven nothing at all about how capable they are against the likes of the OF.

I have seen it argued where was the predicted Armageddon when Rangers were dropped out of the top league? It would have been different if they had actually gone out of existence to be completely gone. But that's not what happened.

Instead of the top league getting the financial benefit of their presence the lower leagues did for a few seasons. So the money they attract didn't disappear. It simply moved around.

Like it or not the OF are the only thing that interests TV and major sponsors etc. Scottish football will descend to little more than Irish/Welsh league level if they go. That's guaranteed.

[Tazio]

Scottish football won’t descend to Welsh or Irish standards for a very good reason, it’s the number one sport here by a mile. In Wales rugby is still a huge thing and where a lot of the talented young sportsmen go and the crowds. In Ireland you have rugby to a lesser extent and then Gaelic football and hurling drawing a lot of people in. You only have to see the crowds at Croke Park for All Ireland finals to see that. In Scotland rugby struggles for crowds and shinty is barely noticeable with tiny crowds in a low population area with no football teams to compete with. 

[JFK-1]

1 hour ago, Tazio said:

Scottish football won’t descend to Welsh or Irish standards for a very good reason, it’s the number one sport here by a mile. In Wales rugby is still a huge thing and where a lot of the talented young sportsmen go and the crowds. In Ireland you have rugby to a lesser extent and then Gaelic football and hurling drawing a lot of people in. You only have to see the crowds at Croke Park for All Ireland finals to see that. In Scotland rugby struggles for crowds and shinty is barely noticeable with tiny crowds in a low population area with no football teams to compete with. 

 

Consider this, the average wage across all spfl teams minus the OF plus Hearts, hubz and the sheep is £67,652 a year. Or if you want £1,301 a week. And that will indisputably become even less minus the OF in the league.

Now what standard of footballer do you think that will get? And that's without even considering what those in lower leagues will pay which will be a pittance in comparison to even that. You think that's anything like high level football in this day and age?

[Kiwidoug]

23 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Consider this, the average wage across all spfl teams minus the OF plus Hearts, hubz and the sheep is £67,652 a year. Or if you want £1,301 a week. And that will indisputably become even less minus the OF in the league.

Now what standard of footballer do you think that will get? And that's without even considering what those in lower leagues will pay which will be a pittance in comparison to even that. You think that's anything like high level football in this day and age?

I doubt if it's ever been much different to that.  Those 3 bigger clubs will pay more and attract better players.  They always have.

 

Doesn't mean that those smaller clubs won't come up with a cracking good side from time to time.

[JFK-1]

29 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

I doubt if it's ever been much different to that.  Those 3 bigger clubs will pay more and attract better players.  They always have.

 

Doesn't mean that those smaller clubs won't come up with a cracking good side from time to time.

 

Your doubts are not based in any reality. They're a reflection of something you want to believe rather than any actual reality. I would like to believe it too but I can't blind myself to reality on that level.

How in the world do you think "those 3 clubs will pay more" than the relatively tiny sum they already pay in a league that has even less money in it?

And those smaller clubs will come up with a cracking good side from time to time? That's something you're effectively pulling straight out of a dark orifice and proposing as an attraction?

Go tell that to TV and sponsors. Tell them the Scottish league will produce a cracking good side from time to time. Maybe not in the period of the contract we're asking you to put money up for but "from time to time"

If the OF go TV and sponsors will be entirely uninterested in Scottish football and the money within it will fall even further. Scotland will descend from it's current status of a footballing backwater to a backyard puddle.

The Euro co-efficient which gives Scotland a current ranking of 11th and is entirely propped up by the OF will fall to Luxembourg like levels. We would likely never see a team in the CL again nor even the Europa league.

And if you are reluctant to take that from me try taking it from a couple of ex pros who played at the very top level and are currently pundits. People who have contacts within the game and vastly more knowledge of the inner workings of it than you or I will ever have.

"IT WOULD KILL OUR DOMESTIC FOOTBALL!" Alan Brazil is against a 'British Super League' 

 

 

[Kiwidoug]

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Your doubts are not based in any reality. They're a reflection of something you want to believe rather than any actual reality. I would like to believe it too but I can't blind myself to reality on that level.

How in the world do you think "those 3 clubs will pay more" than the relatively tiny sum they already pay in a league that has even less money in it?

And those smaller clubs will come up with a cracking good side from time to time? That's something you're effectively pulling straight out of a dark orifice and proposing as an attraction?

Go tell that to TV and sponsors. Tell them the Scottish league will produce a cracking good side from time to time. Maybe not in the period of the contract we're asking you to put money up for but "from time to time"

If the OF go TV and sponsors will be entirely uninterested in Scottish football and the money within it will fall even further. Scotland will descend from it's current status of a footballing backwater to a backyard puddle.

The Euro co-efficient which gives Scotland a current ranking of 11th and is entirely propped up by the OF will fall to Luxembourg like levels. We would likely never see a team in the CL again nor even the Europa league.

And if you are reluctant to take that from me try taking it from a couple of ex pros who played at the very top level and are currently pundits. People who have contacts within the game and vastly more knowledge of the inner workings of it than you or I will ever have.

"IT WOULD KILL OUR DOMESTIC FOOTBALL!" Alan Brazil is against a 'British Super League' 

 

 

I respect your opinion.

[Hashimoto]

4 hours ago, Tazio said:

Scottish football won’t descend to Welsh or Irish standards for a very good reason, it’s the number one sport here by a mile. In Wales rugby is still a huge thing and where a lot of the talented young sportsmen go and the crowds. In Ireland you have rugby to a lesser extent and then Gaelic football and hurling drawing a lot of people in. You only have to see the crowds at Croke Park for All Ireland finals to see that. In Scotland rugby struggles for crowds and shinty is barely noticeable with tiny crowds in a low population area with no football teams to compete with. 

Factually correct!

However 70 to 80% of that popularity is comprised of Celtic or Rangers fans.

It would still remain the No1 sport, except the vast majority of fans would be watching another league!

[kingantti1874]

4 hours ago, Tazio said:

Scottish football won’t descend to Welsh or Irish standards for a very good reason, it’s the number one sport here by a mile. In Wales rugby is still a huge thing and where a lot of the talented young sportsmen go and the crowds. In Ireland you have rugby to a lesser extent and then Gaelic football and hurling drawing a lot of people in. You only have to see the crowds at Croke Park for All Ireland finals to see that. In Scotland rugby struggles for crowds and shinty is barely noticeable with tiny crowds in a low population area with no football teams to compete with. 

Yeah it is the number one sport, sadly 90% of the country support one of the old firm and would be taking their interest with them. 
 

There are a lot of football fans in Ireland. The vast majority Of them support EPL teams + Celtic as the primary club.  Because the league of Ireland is irrelevant. Same would happen here.. only worse

[kingantti1874]

2 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

I doubt if it's ever been much different to that.  Those 3 bigger clubs will pay more and attract better players.  They always have.

 

Doesn't mean that those smaller clubs won't come up with a cracking good side from time to time.

I don’t think we’d be bigger economically that any teams in the top 3 divisions. We would be lucky to find and retain a good player for 6 months when some economic giant like Forrest green Rovers came along and offered to double their wages. We’d have as much chance of building a good team as shamrock rovers do. 
 

There is zero chance it would work in the long term. 

[kingantti1874]

In summary. The suggestion that Scottish football would flourish is a lovely one but when you really think it through, It’s a complete fantasy with next to zero logic 
 

if a British league happens, we need to be part of it not left on the outside. 

[JFK-1]

6 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I don’t think we’d be bigger economically that any teams in the top 3 divisions. We would be lucky to find and retain a good player for 6 months when some economic giant like Forrest green Rovers came along and offered to double their wages. We’d have as much chance of building a good team as shamrock rovers do. 
 

There is zero chance it would work in the long term. 

 

Indeed, Forest Green Rovers already pretty much match wages being payed at any non OF side in Scotland. And obviously if the OF go the current wages payed in Scotland will fall even further. Forest Green Rovers would be a giant in Scotland with no OF in it.

 

https://salarysport.com/football/sky-bet-league-two/forest-green-rovers/

[Boris]

17 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

You want Celtic to Rangers to win the league every season. 

 

There are generations now that only know that. 

 

If that's the model for football worldwide, where will it lead? Only Manchester City or Chelsea can win in Engsnd. 

Tbf, it's always been the case in Scotland, give or take a few seasons here and there.

[JFK-1]

4 minutes ago, Boris said:

Tbf, it's always been the case in Scotland, give or take a few seasons here and there.

 

Yep. Rangers 55 titles, Celtic 51, while the best behind that are Hearts, hubz, and sheep all with 4 each. Taking the Ferguson inspired purple patch of Aberdeen out of the equation the last non OF winners were Hearts 61 years ago in 1960. What's new?

[JFK-1]

29 minutes ago, Boris said:

Tbf, it's always been the case in Scotland, give or take a few seasons here and there.

 

Actually just remembered Dundee United got one title win in the early 80's. That's how forgettable they are I suppose.

[OTT]

12 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

What we have in Scotland presently isn't working for the betterment of the entire league. We have a chief secretary at the SPFL, Mr Vindication, who sells the league to broadcasters by talking up the duopoly. He should be proposing ways of trying to help the other clubs have a chance of competing, which certainly isn't playing them 4 times a season with 12 points at stake against each of the Glasgow bum cheeks. Maybe he could leave with them.

There is a fear of change which will take someone with vision to overcome. To persuade the likes of Motherwell, Kilmarnock and St Johnstone that there is another way. Fans of every club, except Rangers and Celtic are fed up rolling up for every season knowing they are playing in a competition they can never win. It's just a matter of time before those fans find something else to do on a Saturday, especially as we sit in freezing conditions through the winter. Celtic and Rangers leaving tbe league might just be the jolt needed to inspire some radical thinking about how we proceed. 

However, if they go, they go lock, stock and colts. Whoever takes them in better be ready for all the bigoted nonsense that they carry as a badge of honour. It could open a few eyes of people who have been brainwashed about how fantastic their fans are.

 

I agree, the ferocity and passion of the derbies here are IMO fairly unique. I'd be keen to see the Edinburgh derby pushed harder as a must see fixture. In the years that Dundee can manage 2 clubs in the same division, likewise there too. 

 

In light of the super league collapse I think we should be trying to market ourselves as 'real' football. I'd much prefer if we dumped all this faux EPL marketing and resumed use of the SPL, the SPFL as an abbreviation and to say is clunky and amateurish sounding. Over and above that, we shouldn't need to tell people that we're a football league, if our branding is so poor that we need to remind folks that this is football and not something else, then I think thats a sad indictment of the marketing/branding under Doncasters leadership. 

 

Taking some pot shots at the EPL for being a tourist league might be a tongue and cheek way to get some attention back on our league too. Maybe try and push an element of shame on those in Scotland that would rather play kiddy on armchair fan supporting a team they have no connection with than their local club who bends over backwards to support the local community. 

 

The only thing the SPFL try and sell is the OF derby. Its no wonder external interest is at a minimum. More clubs need to be built up as contenders, not beaten down every chance they get. 

 

Its ingrained in their culture though so getting the change we want is next to impossible, not without a total collapse and reformation of the top flight and its voting structure. 

[Rogue Daddy]

12 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Yep. Rangers 55 titles, Celtic 51, while the best behind that are Hearts, hubz, and sheep all with 4 each. Taking the Ferguson inspired purple patch of Aberdeen out of the equation the last non OF winners were Hearts 61 years ago in 1960. What's new?

Nothings new... 36 years since a club outside the OF won our league. Give me a poorer league without the OF any day, compared to the joke of a set we have at present.

 

There's absolutely no doubting the finance the OF bring to our game, but I'm not buying league sponsors (which we don't have at present) and TV revenue (which the OF get the lions share of) makes as big a difference as you state... it certainly doesn't help the lower leagues to any great amount.

 

I've said above, without the OF Scottish football would hit hard times for a period, there's no argument there... but Scottish football clubs revenue depend on bums on seats. If there was fair competition, crowds would come back. Supporters that had been missing due to the hugely unbalanced nature the OF brings, would appear... suddenly, their clubs would have a 'chance'.

 

The big downfall for me would be the European element... but look at Celtic this season? They do bring the co-efficient up but not by huge amounts - so would we really suffer that much? Rangers and Celtic hardly dominate Europe. And I hate hearing our league(s) compared to anything in England. The English leagues are the richest in the world due to obscene TV revenue, so not a fair comparison in my book.

 

Losing the OF would see a drop in finances, and a drop in player quality... but IMO it would only be temporary and certainly wouldn't be 'the end of Scottish football', not by a long shot. I respect everyone's opinion on this subject, but I think the OF are overrated in what they bring to the table. If they're not to leave, the very least Scottish football deserves is equal rights, fair distribution of - well everything and a board that represents everyone. A level playing field. This in itself would bring clubs closer to challenging the OF... and it's a scathing reflection on our games leaders, that our game is run in the way it is, to suit only two teams. This has to change, or in 36 years time, we'll still be looking at 36 OF titles.

 

[Rogue Daddy]

14 minutes ago, OTT said:

 

I agree, the ferocity and passion of the derbies here are IMO fairly unique. I'd be keen to see the Edinburgh derby pushed harder as a must see fixture. In the years that Dundee can manage 2 clubs in the same division, likewise there too. 

 

In light of the super league collapse I think we should be trying to market ourselves as 'real' football. I'd much prefer if we dumped all this faux EPL marketing and resumed use of the SPL, the SPFL as an abbreviation and to say is clunky and amateurish sounding. Over and above that, we shouldn't need to tell people that we're a football league, if our branding is so poor that we need to remind folks that this is football and not something else, then I think thats a sad indictment of the marketing/branding under Doncasters leadership. 

 

Taking some pot shots at the EPL for being a tourist league might be a tongue and cheek way to get some attention back on our league too. Maybe try and push an element of shame on those in Scotland that would rather play kiddy on armchair fan supporting a team they have no connection with than their local club who bends over backwards to support the local community. 

 

The only thing the SPFL try and sell is the OF derby. Its no wonder external interest is at a minimum. More clubs need to be built up as contenders, not beaten down every chance they get. 

 

Its ingrained in their culture though so getting the change we want is next to impossible, not without a total collapse and reformation of the top flight and its voting structure. 

Yes, totally agree.

 

I also think we need to get away from even mentioning the English leagues. We are so far removed from them, it really isn't a comparison at all. We share a border, and that's all. The money floating about down there is obscene, it's the richest league in the world - and our game might as well be  played on a different planet.

 

The SPFL board is a complete incompetent joke - it needs disbanded, tore down and built from the ground up. Dungcaster should ejected now, and a complete restructuring carried out for the better of everyone, not just the uglies.

[Boris]

27 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Actually just remembered Dundee United got one title win in the early 80's. That's how forgettable they are I suppose.

 

Not to mention Kilmarnock... 

[JFK-1]

16 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

Nothings new... 36 years since a club outside the OF won our league. Give me a poorer league without the OF any day, compared to the joke of a set we have at present.

 

There's absolutely no doubting the finance the OF bring to our game, but I'm not buying league sponsors (which we don't have at present) and TV revenue (which the OF get the lions share of) makes as big a difference as you state... it certainly doesn't help the lower leagues to any great amount.

 

I've said above, without the OF Scottish football would hit hard times for a period, there's no argument there... but Scottish football clubs revenue depend on bums on seats. If there was fair competition, crowds would come back. Supporters that had been missing due to the hugely unbalanced nature the OF brings, would appear... suddenly, their clubs would have a 'chance'.

 

The big downfall for me would be the European element... but look at Celtic this season? They do bring the co-efficient up but not by huge amounts - so would we really suffer that much? Rangers and Celtic hardly dominate Europe. And I hate hearing our league(s) compared to anything in England. The English leagues are the richest in the world due to obscene TV revenue, so not a fair comparison in my book.

 

Losing the OF would see a drop in finances, and a drop in player quality... but IMO it would only be temporary and certainly wouldn't be 'the end of Scottish football', not by a long shot. I respect everyone's opinion on this subject, but I think the OF are overrated in what they bring to the table. If they're not to leave, the very least Scottish football deserves is equal rights, fair distribution of - well everything and a board that represents everyone. A level playing field. This in itself would bring clubs closer to challenging the OF... and it's a scathing reflection on our games leaders, that our game is run in the way it is, to suit only two teams. This has to change, or in 36 years time, we'll still be looking at 36 OF titles.

 

 

If they got none of the exiting TV money money they would still be overwhelmingly dominant. Thy sell tens of millions of pounds in season tickets and who knows how many more millions in merchandise plus both have been raking it in from Europe.

Nothing can change this. There is nothing to fairly distribute that would change it. Unless you want to start taking a share of their gates and merchandising. And that's not going to happen.

[Cruyff]

7 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Have to agree with that, economics is everything in the modern game and it's actually what gives Hearts stature in Scottish football. If the OF leave the standard would drop dramatically as would the current European co-efficiency making it even harder to get anywhere in Europe. Ever. They alone are responsible for the current respectable position.

Would the domestic game in Scotland be more competitive? Absolutely but is that really the only point? School football is competitive. Anybody think it's high quality?

I also feel acquiring million plus transfer fees such as the fee for Hickey would become far less likely. Who is going to pay that much for someone who has never been tested against anything but extremely low quality?

There's also the fact that there are decent players who currently would sign on at SPFL clubs even outside the OF. These guys are trying to put themselves in the shop window for a move to England.

That too would dry up since the English would have little interest in players who have proven nothing at all about how capable they are against the likes of the OF.

I have seen it argued where was the predicted Armageddon when Rangers were dropped out of the top league? It would have been different if they had actually gone out of existence to be completely gone. But that's not what happened.

Instead of the top league getting the financial benefit of their presence the lower leagues did for a few seasons. So the money they attract didn't disappear. It simply moved around.

Like it or not the OF are the only thing that interests TV and major sponsors etc. Scottish football will descend to little more than Irish/Welsh league level if they go. That's guaranteed.

 

A lot of good points. The only upside to the OF leaving is that it makes the league more competitive. That's it. 

 

What people are failing to see is that if the OF were to join English football, not only is the money going from Scotland to England but all future generations of supporters here, will support either Rangers or Celtic. 

 

Who the **** would want to pay to watch a Scottish League game, when the OF have some of the best players in the world on their doorstep? 

 

Over time you can put your house on the fact there will be very few professional clubs left in Scotland. 

 

Extra maroon tinted specs for quite a few on here. 

[JFK-1]

8 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Not to mention Kilmarnock... 

 In 1965. There are a total of 11 teams who have ever been Scottish champions and one of them doesn't even exist anymore. That's Third Lanark.

Best record outside Hearts, hubz and sheep is Dumbarton with 2 wins the last of which was in 1892.
 

A total of 125 title races the OF have taken 106 between them.

[JFK-1]

3 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

 

A lot of good points. The only upside to the OF leaving is that it makes the league more competitive. That's it. 

 

What people are failing to see is that if the OF were to join English football, not only is the money going from Scotland to England but all future generations of supporters here, will support either Rangers or Celtic. 

 

Who the **** would want to pay to watch a Scottish League game, when the OF have some of the best players in the world on their doorstep? 

 

Over time you can put your house on the fact there will be very few professional clubs left in Scotland. 

 

Extra maroon tinted specs for quite a few on here. 

 

Pretty much the way I see it unfortunately. What interest are the upcoming generations going to have in watching Hearts field a side of journeymen against the journeymen of Motherwell when less than an hours drive away in Glasgow there are world renowned superstars on display?

It's a grim prospect.

[Cruyff]

Just now, JFK-1 said:

 

Pretty much the way I see it unfortunately. What interest are the upcoming generations going to have in watching Hearts field a side of journeymen against the journeymen of Motherwell when less than an hours drive away in Glasgow there are world renowned superstars on display?

It's a grim prospect.

Exactly. 

 

I'd rather challenge for trophies and titles v the OF with the hope of European football, than see Hearts win 40 titles in a row against a bunch of semi pros. It would be the most hollow of victories. Infinitely more meaningless than how it feels winning the Championship this season. 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

How this shit moved to the gruesomes is beyond me. Feck them.

[Nookie Bear]

5 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Pretty much the way I see it unfortunately. What interest are the upcoming generations going to have in watching Hearts field a side of journeymen against the journeymen of Motherwell when less than an hours drive away in Glasgow there are world renowned superstars on display?

It's a grim prospect.

 

If celtic and rangers are playing in a different league then it could legitimacy to fans of other Scottish clubs who have an "allegiance" to one half of the old firm.

 

 

[Nookie Bear]

Just now, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

How this shit moved to the gruesomes is beyond me. Feck them.

 

I just wish all these MASSIVE clubs woukld quit their respective leagues, **** off and play amongst themselves, and get on with it.

 

Because it feels inevitable and we either make a clean break now or we suffer years and years of increasing financial dominance by a select cartel.

[Mysterion]

1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

How this shit moved to the gruesomes is beyond me. Feck them.

 

It's the standard "create a story" technique used by the Daily Record, The Sun and now Talk Sport to drum up interest / listeners / readers of their stuff. 

 

All 3 organisations mentioned are nothing but marketing outlets trying to get Old Firm fans in Scotland or (with Talk Sport) stir up faux outrage in England.

 

The news cycle will move on. 

 

[Mysterion]

4 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

If celtic and rangers are playing in a different league then it could legitimacy to fans of other Scottish clubs who have an "allegiance" to one half of the old firm.

There's already an element of that in the Hearts support. 

 

Indiscriminate Hatred towards both and their sectarianism is what anyone claiming to be a proper PHM endorse... 

[Rogue Daddy]

6 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

If celtic and rangers are playing in a different league then it could legitimacy to fans of other Scottish clubs who have an "allegiance" to one half of the old firm.

 

 

Exactly! it's easy to follow a 'winning team'... if they're not about, it may encourage fans to support their local teams.

[Hagar the Horrible]

 

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Actually just remembered Dundee United got one title win in the early 80's. That's how forgettable they are I suppose.

And they did it with just about 14 players which even at my age I can probably name most of them, and during that time they played almost 80 first team games in one season, Euro run, cup ties etc, replays included

[JFK-1]

4 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Exactly. 

 

I'd rather challenge for trophies and titles v the OF with the hope of European football, than see Hearts win 40 titles in a row against a bunch of semi pros. It would be the most hollow of victories. Infinitely more meaningless than how it feels winning the Championship this season. 

 

What bothers me most about this latest of countless past rumours of them sailing off down to England is that I never deemed it credible before. I was more than aware they would absolutely love it. But didn't think it had any chance of happening.

If this latest report turns out to be true i think this time it actually could. The elite in England are not going to stop pushing for reformation. That's an absolute fact despite suggestions of news baiting.

They want more money and the greatest avenue for it is the TV companies. If those TV companies insist the new setup include the OF then it will. And the fact is they're more than likely to insist it does. The OF are a cash cow waiting to be milked by these companies.

I suspect they have more fans in the UK alone than any other 2 clubs in England. Estimates put Rangers fans in the UK alone at around 5 million. And even more millions internationally. Then throw in Celtic and you're looking at 10 million plus easily.

The money men now rule football. They're not going to let that pass up and the big guns in England are not going to stop pushing for a reformation. The ESL was simply an opening shot. They will try something else and follow through on it if it gets the support of UEFA.

[JFK-1]

2 minutes ago, Hagar the Horrible said:

 

And they did it with just about 14 players which even at my age I can probably name most of them, and during that time they played almost 80 first team games in one season, Euro run, cup ties etc, replays included

 

Yes an impressive feat indeed. But accomplished in a pre Bosman era when a club like DU could pretty much hold a top player hostage for an entire career if they wanted to. And they frequently did.

[Hagar the Horrible]

Without the old firm over the first 10 years I think we could see 5 or 6 diferent champions, the TV deal is rotten anyway, it wont be any worse, but we could look to get a better leader with the OF politics removed, we could move from the Weeg and have a better set up, and who knows we could get a good deal,

 

But right now when I leave the stadium, my first thoughts is how did the teams around us get on? How did Hibs get on, did they beat, even to our detrement.  The media would have us all beleive we all keep one ear to the radio on the uglies.  I only care IF their result affects us.

 

There will be no point my mind at any time until I read it in the paper the next day, How Sevco got on at Fulham!  Unless I have them on my coupon.

 

But I would prefer we went south and left the OF behind

[Rogue Daddy]

38 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

If they got none of the exiting TV money money they would still be overwhelmingly dominant. Thy sell tens of millions of pounds in season tickets and who knows how many more millions in merchandise plus both have been raking it in from Europe.

Nothing can change this. There is nothing to fairly distribute that would change it. Unless you want to start taking a share of their gates and merchandising. And that's not going to happen.

I'm not talking about 'sharing' their gates, European winnings or merchandise... all of which they are entitled to BTW. I'm talking about before a ball is kicked in earnest at the start of a Scottish season... the current set up is to their benefit, over everyone elses, surely you must agree on that? The fixture calendar is *******ised to suit them, they get the lions share of televised games/monies (no matter how much of a drop in the ocean it is to them), they even get SPFL board swapsies year on year where one of them are always represented, the voting structure is rigged to suit them... we could go on and on.

All these small inequalities add up, and while they may seem insignificant to the OF, they matter to everyone else. IF it was equal, I think it would go a long way to other teams getting closer to them with respects of challenging in the league.

[Cruyff]

8 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

What bothers me most about this latest of countless past rumours of them sailing off down to England is that I never deemed it credible before. I was more than aware they would absolutely love it. But didn't think it had any chance of happening.

If this latest report turns out to be true i think this time it actually could. The elite in England are not going to stop pushing for reformation. That's an absolute fact despite suggestions of news baiting.

They want more money and the greatest avenue for it is the TV companies. If those TV companies insist the new setup include the OF then it will. And the fact is they're more than likely to insist it does. The OF are a cash cow waiting to be milked by these companies.

I suspect they have more fans in the UK alone than any other 2 clubs in England. Estimates put Rangers fans in the UK alone at around 5 million. And even more millions internationally. Then throw in Celtic and you're looking at 10 million plus easily.

The money men now rule football. They're not going to let that pass up and the big guns in England are not going to stop pushing for a reformation. The ESL was simply an opening shot. They will try something else and follow through on it if it gets the support of UEFA.

UEFA and Fa's needs to put their foot down and bring an end to this nonsense by stating their will be no cross border domestic competition. 

 

Football is fine as it is. The problem lies in the elitist nature of the EPL and ECL. Putting restrictions in place to make the game fairer, more competitive and share the wealth, would be better in the long term.

[Rogue Daddy]

1 minute ago, Cruyff said:

UEFA and Fa's needs to put their foot down and bring an end to this nonsense by stating their will be no cross border domestic competition. 

 

Football is fine as it is. The problem lies in the elitist nature of the EPL and ECL. Putting restrictions in place to make the game fairer, more competitive and share the wealth, would be better in the long term.

I agree with this - and your last sentence can just as easily be directed at our own SPFL board.

[JFK-1]

2 minutes ago, Rogue Daddy said:

I'm not talking about 'sharing' their gates, European winnings or merchandise... all of which they are entitled to BTW. I'm talking about before a ball is kicked in earnest at the start of a Scottish season... the current set up is to their benefit, over everyone elses, surely you must agree on that? The fixture calendar is *******ised to suit them, they get the lions share of televised games/monies (no matter how much of a drop in the ocean it is to them), they even get SPFL board swapsies year on year where one of them are always represented, the voting structure is rigged to suit them... we could go on and on.

All these small inequalities add up, and while they may seem insignificant to the OF, they matter to everyone else. IF it was equal, I think it would go a long way to other teams getting closer to them with respects of challenging in the league.

 

It's all about money. And as I said even if they got no share of any TV money at all they would still be overwhelmingly dominant. It's their giant fan base, gate receipts, sponsorship deals and merchandising profits that propel them so far ahead. Plus the Euro cash they rake in.

I can think of nothing Scottish football authorities could do to change that.

[DH1986]

Been looking at various media outlets for the widespread condemnation of a British Super League......haven’t seen any rants from Neville & Co so far.

 

What is the difference between greed on the European level and greed on a British level ?

 

Bunch of hypocrites.

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by DH1986

[JFK-1]

5 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

UEFA and Fa's needs to put their foot down and bring an end to this nonsense by stating their will be no cross border domestic competition. 

 

Football is fine as it is. The problem lies in the elitist nature of the EPL and ECL. Putting restrictions in place to make the game fairer, more competitive and share the wealth, would be better in the long term.

 

Ironically I think the current EPL is actually sharing the wealth to a very high degree. Norwich City finished bottom and earned a total of £94.5 million which doesn't include gate receipts or club sponsorship deals or merchandising profits.

[JFK-1]

2 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

Been looking at various media outlets for the widespread condemnation of a British Super League......haven’t seen any rants from Neville & Co so far.

 

What is the difference between greed on the European level and greed on a British level ?

 

Bunch of hypocrites.

 

 

I thought about that too. I'm thinking that the ESL was so vilified because it was a closed shop. No relegation no chance of being promoted into it. Original members could never be demoted if they did introduce relegation at a later time.

And it would have killed off the EPL too because all the TV money would have drained away into the new ESL An implosion of English football.

This latest proposal would not be a closed shop and would include relegation and promotion chances.

[Cruyff]

6 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

Ironically I think the current EPL is actually sharing the wealth to a very high degree. Norwich City finished bottom and earned a total of £94.5 million which doesn't include gate receipts or club sponsorship deals or merchandising profits.

Yeah, fair point. That's how it should be.